YouSaid · the spoken record

Michele Madansky

lines on the record: 98
first: 2019-06-05
most recent: 2019-06-05
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“They say there's no change. There's no change. No change. No change. Same old, same old change. That's not a positive. There's a Glad Uber brothers were finally taken down. There's more awareness of the problem, but people don't know how to fix it.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Okay, so 27% agree that Silicon Valley has become a better place for women to succeed. 57% said no change. 16% said it's more challenging. But that's a positive. There's 27% are saying, hey, it's become better.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, those were questions I asked 2015. In this next survey, I also asked some specific questions about Me Too and diversity inclusion.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And I'm going to frame this as progress, not perfection right here. Okay. Fewer have heard demeaning comments from men on multiple occasions. So that has been a little bit better.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, I am going to be saying what I want you to say here is that why the co author of Elephant the Valley is optimistic about the future of women in tech.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Okay, check. Yes. Not to mention the homeless, we're not doing anything about homelessness. So do we want to stay here? Do we want to sell airports?”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Okay, so now I'm going to talk about what's better. Okay. Okay. So, Kara, I listened to your podcast a lot. Okay. I don't listen at all. You are completely, you're so prolific. I'm prolific.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right. And I think that's a big problem. Like, I, you know, again, I personally have not seen any, you know, active harassment, but I have seen a lot of the women, there's this whole network of the Yahoo diaspora. And we've all done well, but all the men who are putting each other on each other's boards, the men are all putting each other on each other's boards, not the women. Yeah, I don't see it right. Yep. Okay.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“She doesn't have kids. That's the clincher. So there's all this like, okay, whiskey. It's just an excuse to get together with the guys and exclude them. And I mean, Trey talks about like these women are bummer extreme skiers. I mean, she's a really good skier, so she can like go on these ski trips.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I did not. We had a lot of anecdotes, and I think a lot of them were advances, and some of them were, you know, more costs. The other thing, which is exactly the same, was that two and three felt excluded from key social and networking events because of their gender. So how many stories about golf, you know? Yep, how many stories? I just read someplace. I don't know where about that strip club in Soma. Oh, is there a something about that gold? Golds coach. To go, yeah, I was like, never, I walk by it all the time, I don't even know where it was. Okay, and I love this one story. This woman said, I was excluded from a whiskey tasting, and the guy who organized it said he thought that I needed to be home to pick up my kids.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You have to define it your own way, right? Right. Okay. So I think that's another thing about kind of using the same surveying instrument across industries because the way that you phrase it can really vary how people respond.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But the way I phrased it was people who are we use subjected to an unwanted sexual advance. So it wasn't like you were necessarily accosted, but it was an unwanted sexual advance.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The way I described it, that's a very good question because I think that partly explains why there are such wild differences.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So 60% of the women say that they're less well compensated than their male peers. 18% say it's equal, 3% more favorable, 19% don't know. So, if you actually rebase to get rid of the people who don't know, three and four women believe that they're less well compensated. A lot of them actually had proof. Like men leaving their W2s on the printer, things like that. So, okay, so that's the what's worse. What's the same? Two stats are exactly the same. So the sexual harassment, 60% 2015, 59% 2018.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's weird, anyway. Nagger, yeah. Okay, so the second thing this is not what's worse, but one of the questions I ask is, is there anything that you think that we should have asked that we didn't? And we totally forgot to ask about compensation in the first study. That's key.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But we want to make it this a place where someone who doesn't have our personality, who's quieter, who's less likely to interrupt. I agree, can be successful.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We have different personalities. There's a whole separate conversation, which is around I feel like there are women and like you and me who can hang with the guys. And we have no, you know, we've been very successful.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, so two of the quotes I have here one colleague said, oh, men can't multitask like you when I asked him to take the notes instead of me, like ridiculous. And then another woman, I thought this was interesting, not fetch the coffee, but more emotional labor these days, literally smooth this over. So she wasn't talking about like, you know, taking notes, but more like you deal with that problem employee or you deal with that, you know, problem client. So I thought that was a different take on it.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Okay, so I am going to talk about. I'm going to start with the bad and move to the better. Okay. We're starting with the Asked to do lower level tasks went from 47% in 2015 to 61% in 2018.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for $12-month plan required, $15 per month, equivalent taxes and fees extra. Initial planned term only greater than 50 GBR is busy. C terms. We're back with Michelle Medansky. She's the author of Elephant in the Valley, which talks about surveys and research she did into harassment and discrimination in the tech industry. We had before, and now we have now. So let's talk about now, compare it to before, too. Talk about the results you got.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think there's a lot more visibility. That's interesting. Maybe we should change the name, right? But it's kind of a catchy name. But I do think that there's a lot more awareness among men and women and calling each other out on that. So women also are feeling more confident to call out men or to like support other women in meetings when men are kind of mansplaining or taking their ideas as their own.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“didn't know anything about it. Didn't know. You either weren't paying attention, willfully ignoring their own stupid behavior sometimes, or didn't notice it when it was happening around them. Or it was really interesting, just didn't know. And it was like, is it because the women don't tell them or they aren't paying attention or a combination of the both? And it was very interesting. I remember thinking that's why we have to keep telling the stories. That's why we keep putting the statistics out just so people get it. So they can't look away, I guess. They can't look away, which is interesting. So what is the reason? You want to call it Ellen the Valley because it's elephant in the room that nobody, everyone pretends not to see. Do you believe that's still the case? They pretend not to see it between then and now?”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“All the really good men who I consider, I use that sort of a loose term, but people who I don't consider schmucks, schmucks. We all know the schmucks, right? Then there's the jerks, but then there's most people.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Every woman I ran into had 10 stories like that. Everyone. And they often, they were very much on a scale. And they loved to read it because they were like, I see myself, you know what I mean, which was interesting. On a scale of those little slights, like take notes, get the coffee, that kind of stuff, to very serious sexual harassment. Now, most people were down in this area, like down in the slights area, the lack of promotion, the treatment somewhere in the middle, which are just gross remarks, and the others were lesser people, but still significant were over here. And it was really interesting. Everyone had 10, like at least 10 examples. I have 10, which I can't believe, but I do. I could recount 10.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Connected in some way is that every woman, when we did that coverage, it was really important to do it that much and was such gifted writers and such good reporters because we wanted to put a light on it. I thought that was critically important. And then people started picking it up because it's also an interesting story. There's sex money and weirdness everywhere. Leather jackets. Leather jackets. Whatever. There's a lot of weird going on there. It's interesting and it also gives you a real, you know, you can see at other places people can understand. And great characters, et cetera. So what was fascinating with people reading it, and we were trying to create a narrative around it so people wouldn't tune in every day, you know, with that great writing and that great reporting. What was really interesting is that”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, exactly. So it was interesting. One of the things that I found interesting when we were doing the coverage of Ellen Powell's trial, which I thought was a real watershed moment for Silicon Valley. And Susan Fowler was the second. Do you know what I mean? The two of them sort of, I think of them.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, the death by a thousand cuts. So when I talk to a lot of men who are pro women or promoting women, they have no idea. Like there's really, you know, you know who the bad actors are and you know that when you see it, but you don't know all the little slights that happen every day.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So for me, I think that the way to make improvements is, first of all, to have a benchmark, to say like, let's make people aware of all these issues. And yeah, sexual harassment is one thing, but there's the things like not looking women in the eye. There's the things like, you know, having the women take the notes in the meetings. There's the, you know,”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Cohort of women. Right. Okay. But before we do that, because I want to do that in the next section, talk to me about what's the goal of this for you to be doing these? And the next thing I want to talk about in the next section, I want to talk about the results. But what is the goal of doing studies like this and continuing to do studies? What do you think the point is? Yeah.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Same cohort of women. Right. So we actually had 300 women in 2018, 200 women in 2015. So I'm going to share with you stats on some of the stuff that's worse, some of the stuff that's the same, but I really want to focus on some of the stuff that gives me hope. Okay.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But there's much more visibility into it, and much more just open discussion about it. So I said, hey, I want to relaunch this survey. Three years later, let's see if anything has changed.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Okay, so 2018 was like, okay, it's three years later. All this stuff has happened. There's the Me Too that's happened. There's this Susan Follow has happened. The Google walkout kind of happened afterwards, right?”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Because I think that to understand, like for women coming into tech, is it, oh, is this much worse if you go into finance? If you go into academia, like, you know, we don't want to scare away women from joining our industry because we are worse than other industries.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, the work mom kind of thing. Interesting. This was an issue. This is a way Vinode Kosla tried to, actually, Nelly did it a really great interview with him at the Commonwealth. I think it was a Commonwealth Club, and they talked about that. And I think he was like, well, lots of industries are bad, which I thought was a lame friggin' excuse for bad behavior. But anyway, that was the idea. It's not different than anywhere else, which I don't think is the point, but tell me why you wanted to compare them.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, I mean, it's higher, 60% is higher compared to other industries. Advertising surprising was lower 54%, automotive higher 65%, market research, woohoo. I work in a good industry, 35%. So still not great, but much better. There are some other differences, advertising, women are most likely to have been asked to do lower level tasks. Go ahead. Yeah, the work mom kind of thing. Automotive is obviously the most for sexual harassment. So other industries have also reached out. So tech industry is bad. A lot of other industries bad. There are different nuances for each of them. Right. But at least now we have a way to say, okay, this is how we compare to some other industries. We'd love to get more”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, anyway, you got the word out there, which is kind of awesome. Where are we now? So I know you want to get to where we're now, but I do want to talk about just a comparison to different industries. All right. Okay. Yes. So when I first got the statistics, 60% of women”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Market research. So we now have all this research kind of comparing the different industries. This is all because of you.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And in the audience is a woman who is from an organization called the 3% movement, which is focused on getting more women in senior creative positions in advertising. And she contacted me afterwards and said, oh my God, I would love to replicate this research for the advertising community. You know that before I worked in at Yahoo, I was an advertising for my first half of my career. And I saw much more egregious behavior there And so I was like, Yes, let's do this for advertising. So we published something called Elephant on Madison Avenue. You can also download that research, someone from automotive news contacted me and said, oh my God, the automotive is. Yeah. So automotive news published it.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, you know, you get to speak. You're a Hall of Famer. Like, for me, I'm a marker researcher. It was a big deal for me to be able to keynote at South by Southwest. And that year, Obama was speaking. So I have a PowerPoint slide with my face next to his, which I try to show as many places as possible. Okay, so at South by Southwest, we do this panel. Trey's on there, Megan's on there, Laura Widen Power from Code 2040.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, there you go. You drink whatever I want. I really like the podcast of Kathy Griffin. No, that was great. That was so good. Oh, man. I like her so much more. She checks all the time.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“No, right. And the one stat, which this is a headline which I love, which was from the SFist, that 60% of women in tech are sexually harassed and more numbers to make you throw up. That was a great headline for a story. But that, of course, was the thing that got kicked up. So after that, we got contacted by South by Southwest. And Trey got the email, and I was like, oh, I'm going to South by Southwest. Let me, I'll talk to them. They probably want just to be on a panel. And the next thing we know, they said, hey, will you keynote at South by Southwest? Yeah. They tried to get you to into the U.S.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“This was before all the Me Too stuff. Exactly. So, yeah. So the podcast was January 2016. It was released. And after that happened, what was interesting is that we had built a website, so you can still go to elephant in thevalley.com. And some of the stats are there. And there was also a way for women to enter their stories. Right. So after the podcast, we got 600 women entering their stories on our website. And every media outlet wanted to talk to us. So we wrote, you know, for time, we wrote for, you know, we were published in Newsweek, the Irish Times Vogue, like really kind of random stuff. You're welcome. But go ahead. All right.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So that's how we got, I got involved, and it was really a kind of collaborative effort between a number of women, some Stanford affiliation, and we reached out to our network of senior level women in Silicon Valley and surveyed them about their experiences. And of course, the first thing that we did, once we had the results, is I said, hey, Kara, can we talk to you about it? Right, yes.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Emailing her, and they're all saying, Hey, thank you so much for talking about this. I've had similar experiences. And Trey was honestly overwhelmed because she thought she had thought she was all alone in this experience. She also felt a little bit guilty because the only reason she talked about this was because she was subpoenaed. So, you know, what she said was, Hey, I had no idea this was such a prevalent issue. I want to learn more about it. Let's do some market research. And she was walking and talking with her friend Hillary Michael, who was my friend, who I work, my colleague at Yahoo. And Hillary said, oh, if you want to do market research, talk to Michelle.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“They did. And like many women, I was following this every day, right? So we're all kind of reading about this. And one day, this woman, Trey Vassalo, was subpoenaed and she talks on. So she was testified about being harassed by the same guy who Ellen Powell had been harassed by. After that happened, this is all according to Trey. So Trey was a partner, Kleiner Perkins. She was harassed by this guy. She did all the right things. She reported it to HR. The guy was fired. She ended up leaving Kleiner. She now has her own VC firm called Defy, but she never talked about it publicly until she was subpoenaed. And according to Trey, after she testified, all these women came out of the woodwork and were”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“They did at the time. It was a good time to be at Yahoo. Yeah, I know. Yeah. And I'm here because I'm co-author of the Elephant Valley, which I'm going to talk about. But I kind of got into this project in a very sideways manner. So most people that we've heard about who are talking about gender bias in tech had something bad happen to them.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Okay, so I am an independent market research consultant, and I work mainly with digital media companies. So my clients have been Pinterest, Twitter, Cheg, Baby Center, Postmates, Uber, et cetera. My last full-time job was at Yahoo, where I ran market research from 2003 to 2007.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Hi, I'm Kara Swisher, editor at large of Recode. You may know me as the Smasher of Meritocracies, but in my spare time I talk tech and you're listening to Recode Decode from the Vox Media Podcast Network. Today in the rear is Michelle Medansky, who's been on the show before to talk about her research into harassment and discrimination in the tech industry, which was called Elephant in the Valley and was a long time ago. She now has a new version of that study, and we're going to talk about it, what has changed in the past couple of years, and of course, what hasn't. Michelle, welcome to Recode Deco.”
2019-06-05 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Michele Madansky · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT