YouSaid · the spoken record

Natalie Jaresko

lines on the record
75
first
2017-01-30
most recent
2017-01-30
sittings or episodes
1
sources
podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

  1. “But I also understand better than most this intersection of business and government and how that works and doesn't work sometimes. So I have a daughter at university here in the US and got paid tuition. So I'm looking to continue my public service in Ukraine. I'm still based in Kiev. I'm chairperson of Aspen Institute Kiev. I'm also associated with the Atlantic Council, and so I continue to do public service, mentor some young people in government there, and I continue to work on leadership and on. And do you see yourself staying?”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  2. “I agree that's one of the things that needs to be changed rapidly. So I'm looking for some board positions, advisory positions, companies, organizations that are growing in emerging markets, for example. I have a unique background because I have the accounting and business knowledge. I've served on a dozen or more boards.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  3. “I would certainly serve if I had the belief that that service would be of great value and I could really make a change. Right now, I need to get a job. My salary when I was minister was $200 a month. So I've kind of blown through my savings. And I need...”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  4. “I think he does sometimes, but again he surrounded himself with people who don't seem to share that perspective, so perhaps it's the tone of his speeches and maybe there's still time. It's just too early, I think, for us to understand exactly what's going to happen. Governments change even while the president sits, you know, you have your first round of people, you have your second round of people, I'm sure this group of people will not be there for the full four-year term. So we have to see how he deals with the realities of governance because I think it's very much easy to say things. It's easy to announce things. It's much harder to do them and it's much harder to govern. And so he hasn't had a chance to govern yet. And when he has to govern, things might look differently to him.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  5. “I hate to even conceive of it. Especially in this world today with this many rogue enemies, you know, from North Korea to ISIS and Daesh, I can't even imagine. I mean, the worst part of that is that the cost will be to the United States and the cost will be to the American people because we benefit from peace in the world and we benefit from the global trade. And we benefit from From being a part of a larger community, whether it's from education and exchanges, I mean, we benefit every day from that openness. And so the cost would be, I think, very, very disruptive globally, very disruptive. I think it would push us into kind of protectionism in other areas and this pure nationalism and populism arising in other places, God forbid. Further political economic collapse”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  6. “And dumb and it's based not on power, it's not based on threat, it's not based on military, it's based on those principles, it's based on that belief in being right, in fighting for the rights of people, our support of human rights globally that makes us that shining light for so many societies that are looking for someone to be protective, to respect them when their own governments don't. And so for me it's always been an extraordinarily one of the central countries in the world and I wouldn't like to see us lose that position.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  7. “That's extraordinary you know, the more you live abroad the more you realize. We are the example and we are the shining light for so many societies we are I believe to some extent in this American exceptionalism, and I believe that what's been good for the United States has been being a part of a stronger global environment. I think when the United States leads on climate change, others follow. I think It's there are very few role models for societies that are looking for a role model, and that's why you have immigrants coming from all over the world to this country.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  8. “I'm not in favor of the approach of the protectionism and that, but again, I understand that that's where his thinking is. And again, I would argue for Ukrainians, you know, Ukrainians are spending 5% of their GDP on military and defense right now. Ukrainians have played a role in nuclear proliferation at almost no cost to the world. Ukrainians have played incredible roles in UN peacekeeping, in NATO peacekeeping. They were one of the coalition of the willing in Iraq when many refused to serve alongside the Americans. The Ukrainians, if he wants to put those types of categories, if that's the way he's going to be thinking, Ukrainians don't fit into the category of not doing their part. They're doing more than their part. And they have for quite some time.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  9. “It's not encouraging for certain. I think, again, It sounded to me more like part of the campaign than it did what I would have expected from an inaugural speech in terms of the unifying effect. You always kind of look towards an inaugural speech to kind of give you a fresh view to the next four years and kind of”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  10. “Argue on the principles of what Ukraine stands for. I think we also need to prove to the president that it's even more than that.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  11. “American businesses export more, while there is no country that is less saturated, with American products and services and technology, if you look at the agriculture sector, which is booming, and yet what is the role of John Deere, the role of caterpillar, where are all of the large U.S. companies? They haven't saturated this market. It's an area for immense upside if Ukraine is successful. And I think there are areas like cyber. where Ukraine can be a partner in a global solution. Ukraine has extraordinarily cyber and IT skills. I think Ukraine can be a part of the global solution. looks at it. Because if all we say is what we've been able, you know, what others have said in the past, this is a true civil society, a democracy, the human rights of these people. It's not going to be sufficient, I feel, sometimes with this administration to just”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  12. “I think we're going to have to be patient. We're going to have to continue to remind this administration of why Ukraine is important. And I recognize that this is a more transactional type of foreign policy potentially that we're looking at. But even from a transactional point of view, Ukraine is important to the United States. Number one, it is right now securing freedom for Europe. We don't know whether they would go farther, but what we know is that when they got Crimea, they did try to go farther in eastern Ukraine. So they got a part of Georgia, they then took a part of Ukraine. I mean, there is some pattern here that you would need to fear. And so Ukraine is holding back the aggressor from Europe. And Europe is our greatest trading partner and one of the most important partners we have in the world. I think Ukraine is important as one of the last bastions for you as a business. I know that the president is extraordinarily interested in ensuring that America”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  13. “And I think certainly Secretary Mattis and others have disagreed. Could NATO be improved? Of course. Are there areas where maybe you should shift focus? Sure, but obsolete? No.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  14. “The principles that we believe in. And so if Russia leaves eastern Ukraine and returns Crimea, we're all for better relations. France and Germany are today allies, and they were terrible enemies at one time. That's all possible, but it's not possible at the cost of Ukrainian sovereignty. It's not possible to trade away and to agree to, for example, spheres of interest, which the Russians like to talk about. That's not in U.S. interest. The weakening of NATO is not in the U.S. interest from my perspective. And so talking about, quote, an obsolete, unquote, NATO.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  15. “I think it is I think where we have to be careful is that I think everyone would like to improve relations with the Russians. I mean, I think that statement isn't what causes me any anxiety. I think the issue is, and maybe Richard Haas said it better yesterday, but our foreign policy is not about The goal is not to be friends. The goal is to live in a world where we live by the values and the...”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  16. “I think everyone has anxiety, but everyone's hoping for the best and that the combination of the bipartisan support and the national security team as it fills out, it's hard to say because it hasn't filled out if you don't have deputy secretaries and you don't, we don't know yet who the full team will be, it's hard to put your finger on it.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  17. “The statements made during the campaign and even to some extent now post campaign. The problem is that we don't know how this is going to translate into policy. And so I think Ukrainians are still waiting to see. They are very, very hopeful that this bipartisan consensus in Congress will be support, continue to support and defend Ukraine. We had a visit almost on New Year's Eve, if I remember correctly, from Senators McCain, Graham, and Klochabar. They actually went out to the front and visited with the soldiers to show their support.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  18. “I think it's quite high. I will say that it's been Reduced by the confirmation hearings of Pompeo General Mattis and to some extent mister Tillerson. Because in each of those cases it became clear that at least in those three individuals, they saw that Russia was an adversary, in some cases the greatest adversary of the United States right now. In all cases it appears that they understood the fact that the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine must be reinstated. I think the”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  19. “Effective at number one keeping the Kremlin at the negotiation table and number two they've had some economic effect. I'm not going to say that certainly oil prices being down have had a bigger effect. But there has been some cost, some financial cost.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  20. “Whether two that I believe were part of his reasoning, I mean, I wasn't there, but one was that he believed it might accelerate Expand The violence But and the second being that Chancellor Merkel was not in favor of it either, and he wanted to maintain a very strong partnership with Europe on these issues.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  21. “And I think now, you know, I talk to people from NATO or the Americans or the Brits or the Canadians that are doing military training and Ukrainians are now the most experienced in hybrid war, military experienced in hybrid war in the world. And so these trainings are now not just Americans training Ukrainians, but Ukrainians providing a great deal of experience and knowledge back to the Americans. So, again, it was a disappointment. I think it would have ended this conflict sooner. It's drawn it out. But, you know, I do understand.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  22. “losing too many of their boys. And I think it could have brought an end to it sooner. Now, that said, the military was rebuilt in the past three years from nothing because it had been decimated completely by the previous regimes, and they have held the line. In fact, we've regained territory that was taken over the past two years. And so Ukrainians have shown themselves to be very, very effective, at least at holding the line.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  23. “But everyone expected the United States to do more to help us fight the battle. Now, that said, the United States did do a lot. They did a lot in military training. They did a lot in non-lethal weapon support. So I'm not saying nothing was done. There was a great deal done. We have bipartisan support in Congress always. But I think Lethal Weapons, defensive weapons would have helped us to put an end to this sooner because I am. quite confident that the Kremlin didn't want to have lots of Russian soldiers going home. In coffins they didn't want to”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  24. “That's one of those areas where I disagreed with the Obama administration's support of Ukraine. I believe that they should have provided us with defensive weapons with lethal weapons. And I think Ukrainians were very disappointed. I have to remind you that the United States was a guarantor of Ukraine's security and sovereignty and territorial integrity because of a document called the Budapest Memorandum, when Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons voluntarily. Several countries sat down and signed this memorandum saying that they would guarantee sovereignty and territorial integrity. Unfortunately, one of those was also the aggressor, which is the Kremlin.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  25. “Leverage over us. So we did a lot on the corruption side that I described to you. And we turned the economy around. It was minus 10% drop in GDP. It's now 1.8% growth in GDP. It's not what you hope for, but it's a start. And it's a turnaround. And so I think the experience of a lifetime, I can't imagine what would be more fulfilling than what I did there. I worked very closely with the United States, which was also with the Obama administration, with Vice President Biden, and I'm extraordinarily grateful for that support, even if a lot of people say they want more. Of course, you always want more support. But the United States was critically important post-revolution in getting Ukraine back on track and getting the international community behind us.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  26. “We were able to put a financial support package together with the support of the United States and the EU and Germany, forty billion dollars, and the IMF. We restructured the country's debt, we reduced the budget deficit from over 10% of GDP to just 2% of GDP. We did some tax reform. We did an enormous amount of energy sector reform because that was one of the greatest sources of corruption. It was bleeding the country. And so I'm very proud that we've able to raise Western funding to buy gas. And now we haven't bought Russian gas for a year, which means that they don't have that political.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  27. “Now, the least I can do when called to act is to do my best, and my kids understood, and it was a very difficult sixteen months because I really did work twenty four seven. We were in, it was just such a financial collapse situation and rebuilding a military that didn't exist and fighting the war and fighting the cyber attacks. If it wasn't one thing, it was another. But we turned it around. And so I think the important messages that in that moment of crisis, there was the political will to take very, very difficult decisions.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  28. “It's a huge impact. You can't even imagine. And I grew up hearing stories of World War II, but it's totally different than knowing people. The guard at your school, the security guard at your school going off to war, and every day you wonder if he's going to come back or not. Being engaged, I mean, there's a good part of it. Again, I said, my older daughter would go with a group of young students and bring pizzas and music and magazines for the boys in the rehabilitation military hospital. It's a sense of service. It's a sense of understanding commitment and understanding the need to play your role. And when my children said to me, mom, you know, you'll never be home. You're going to be working all the time. And I said, honey, I'm still going to come home at the end of the night every day. The boys going off to the front, some of them don't get to come home. They're trying to protect your lives and our lives. They're trying to protect all of Europe right now.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  29. “You said this looks interesting. So when the president called me and asked me to serve, there were two things one remaining in private equity in that economic environment if someone didn't save the economy I wasn't going to save my business there was no reason to ignore The other part of it, Ansey was again, I had lived through and Americans don't have to live through this because wars are far, but I had lived through this war in eastern Ukraine and I knew men who had gone to the front. I knew men who didn't come back. My children were spending their weekends at rehabilitation hospitals, talking to the soldiers that were coming back and trying to raise their spirits, raising money. Had that impact on your career?”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  30. “Oh boy I was managing a private equity fund in the region based in Kiev. About $600 million under management, and the economy was failing. It was collapsing. So since the end of the Revolution when the former president fled to Russia, There was the invasion of Crimea. There was a collapse in the fiscal system, there was no money in the budget. Literally the former regime left something like a couple hundred thousand, equivalent of a couple hundred thousand dollars in the treasury of a country of forty five million people. We had a debt, an overload of debt that was unbearable and coming due. The central bank reserves were almost empty and”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  31. “There's no question. I mean, it happens domestically. It happened even when I was minister. If you can't provide for that group of people a vision of how their lives are going to get better and what policies you're implementing to make their lives better, then the populace run with it. Whether the populace believe in what they're saying or not is a wholly different story they might be standing behind, they might be standing vested interests in oligarchs and things. It's a lesson learned from when I was Minister of Finance.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  32. “And it wasn't even true, but it created the political blowback for the Chancellor's position on migrants. I think there is activity in Libya that we should fear right now, which God forbid the Russians are helping to try and create a new stream of migrants right before these elections, because again, you can influence them. So I think, again, in my mind, what happened here in these elections, what's happening in Europe, and what's happened in Ukraine needs to bring us all together even more closely rather than to be more divided. And I think it requires everyone to remember what has maintained the peace after centuries and centuries of war in Europe. And this construction, this liberal international order has maintained the peace.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  33. “They've cyber attacked the Bundestag intelligence agencies. They've shut down the Chancellor's websites. They've used the same means. They've used propaganda with false article about a young girl being raped by some swarthy, quote-unquote, swarthy looking men spread through their propaganda.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  34. “So, you don't want to do that. No one wants to say what they think is possible. That would be very, very harmful. She certainly does not believe in the European Union. She certainly doesn't believe in the principles and values, again, that I hold dear, and I think the United States holds dear in most Europeans do. I think Chancellor Merkel is a heroine and holding Europe together right now against.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  35. “No question I I'm very nervous about the French elections because of the role of the far right there and Madame Le Pen. I don't you know it's hard for anyone nowadays to say they don't think she will win because your ability to look at polls and”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  36. “And so if you want to be powerful in this world, you have to change what power is and how power is seen. So I think this destruction of this liberal order where we judge on economy and on human rights and on the values and principles that we've accepted for 70, some 80 years is in the Kremlin's interest right now.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  37. “that this is not the Kremlin it is not only about Ukraine, it's not about Russian language rights or any of the arguments that were given. This is about testing this liberal order. And Georgia was the first test. Then it was Crimea, then it was eastern Ukraine. You hear a lot of discussion right now that Serbia might be wanting to take a part of Kosovo back on the same basis that Crimea left Ukraine. Think they're testing. They're testing our resolve. They're testing what brought us peace and a peace. A big part of the reason why is President Obama perhaps said it in one way that Russia is a regional power. Russia is a global power from a nuclear power nuclear weapon standpoint. There's no question. There's no one that has what they have. But their economy is smaller than Italy's.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  38. “But I think this is part of the lesson, which is that this is not about Ukraine. For Ukrainians, it's about Ukraine. But this is about the Kremlin wanting to destroy the transatlantic partnership, wanting to destroy what we'll call the liberal post-World War II international order, which is based on democracy, human rights, territorial integrity, sovereignty of nations. And if you can create a disrupted system, not an alternative, it's not communism. It's not an alternative ideology, but a disrupted system where we all spend all of our time in fighting rather than working together, where alliances start to fail, or where people no longer believe in alliances, then you have everyone out for themselves. And if you have every country being out there for themselves, it's much easier for the Kremlin with its skills and with its funds to separate all of us. And so from my perspective, what happened in the United States is an extraordinarily important lesson.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  39. “It surprised me only because I didn't expect that it could be possible in the United States. that they would even try. I mean, we live through that every day, the information attacks, the propaganda, the cyber attacks. We had cyber attacks on our electricity systems. We've had cyber attacks on our government. We've lived through all the things that, frankly speaking, the Kremlin uses elsewhere. They test first in Ukraine. Electoral interference. That was what was happening in Ukraine. So it's shocking that they would take the risk of doing in the United States. And now it appears I've seen reports Germany, France, and elsewhere.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  40. “And the EU deep and comprehensive free trade agreement and our association agreement, all of that was putting us on a path to success. I think though there's more to it than that, and I think the United States is now figuring this out because of the reported role of the Kremlin in pre-election.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  41. “One of the most remarkable moments of the revolution was when the parliament adopted what was called Black Thursday, adopted limitations on all of the civil liberties of people. You couldn't wear a hat. You couldn't wear a face mask. You couldn't have more than five cars in a row. You couldn't gather in front of homes with more than X numbers of people. And Ukrainians came out the next day and said, that is unacceptable. Now many of those lacks of freedoms are normal in Russia. You have no NGOs in Russia or you have no American organizations in Russia. You have very limited religious freedom in Russia. We have a very, very great religious freedom in Ukraine. And so Ukrainians have already become accustomed to a very different level of set of freedoms, which are diametrically the opposite of what's happened in the Kremlin over the past decade. And so it is, I think, regionally for Putin unacceptable for Ukraine to succeed.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  42. “I think there are two things happening. I mean, one is what's happening in the region itself. I think the Kremlin could not bear the thought of Ukraine becoming a truly democratic, economic, economically successful rule of law state, because that example right next door in a country that's very close culturally, historically, to Russia, would cause questions as to why is the system in Russia so different.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  43. “This revolution that just occurred I mean there are a couple things that are different. One, it ended up in violence. People were killed, the heavenly hundred, a hundred people were killed, unarmed people by their own government. But probably the other big positive difference is after this revolution, civil society has remained engaged. They remain demanding. And technology helps because you can get information across very quickly. You can film everything. You can put drones over businessmen's and government officials' homes. You can follow judges and record them with your iPhone from their car and what car they drive and where they go during the day. And that's all public. But civil society has pushed and been the balance since this revolution and actually been able to even reverse policy. So civil society has become much stronger in this 25 years. I guess it's two generations and very demanding but very engaged this time. And so this is a very”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  44. “and a good friend. You know, we were extraordinarily hopeful, but it also created a certain sense of fear because there was belief that, you know, somebody willing to poison him, that meant someone really didn't want us to go down this track. And so there was a very big fear behind who would have poisoned him, why would they have poisoned him, what could cause something like that. But I think the overwhelming feeling was one of excitement. But I think we left it to government officials. Civil society didn't become active enough. I was in the business sector. I'll include myself in that. We kind of said, great, we elected a good president. Now he can go take care of things. And the system isn't strong enough. The Democratic institutions aren't strong enough. The political parties aren't strong enough to enable that. We all needed to be there to be the check and balance. And what's different about this...”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  45. “After the Orange Revolution, things settled back a lot was done to kind of increase the identity of the country and strength of the country and the economy.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  46. “It's even more than an allegory because it's vested interest. An oligarchy makes you think that there's like five or seven of them, but it's hundreds of vested interests. And when that monopolization goes too far, civil society reacts. And the Orange Revolution was the first time because you had this stolen election with our presidential candidate, President Yushchenko, poisoned. It was very, very, very visible to everyone. And this was before the technology, you know, before a lot of the Twitter and everything else, 2004. But yet they could see what they call carousel voting where they would bus people from place to place to multiply their votes. You could see that the fraud. And people just refused to accept it. They refuse. They didn't have a particular answer to what, but they refused until we had new elections. And so the Orange Revolution was about that fraud, that electoral fraud, that monopolization of the political system.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  47. “I think you have something in Ukrainian society that's unique. You have an incredible desire for freedom. and an incredible desire for sovereignty and self rule. And The political system resulted in presidents who enabled a kind of monopolization of both economy but also political power.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  48. “It's all up to political will. And fighting corruption with political will only is very, very hard. So courts are the final institution, and probably if I had to start a country myself, the lesson learned, discourts should be first. Rule of law needs to be first.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  49. “Over the last three years, we created transparency to make it less possible, so e-procurement across all public government organizations. It's harder to be corrupt when it's transparent in all of civil society's watching. Then we created new institutions, so a new prosecutor, anti-corruption prosecutor, a new National Anti-Corruption Bureau, new paved Western salaries well trained. But the bottom line is all of this requires, not just the political will, but you need to have a court, that when the prosecutor does his job and brings a case forward, the court cannot be bribed. And the court cannot be influenced. The court, ninety whatever percent of the time will do the right thing according to the law. And that's where we still haven't completed the process. We began in October at major constitutional judicial reform, but it's going to take three or four years.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  50. “I've always had the benefit for 25 years when people would ask me about corruption. I said, do you want to talk about Chicago or do you want to talk about Ukraine? Corruption is not new and it's not unique to Ukraine, it's in the human nature. What makes corruption manageable in the United States or in other countries is a system of rule of law that works, I don't know, ninety percent of the time, ninety five percent of the time. So yeah, you'll always have a category of individuals who on the margin wants to take a risk, thinks that they'll outsmart the system or the system won't find out. But the general average citizen basically doesn't want to get caught. There is enough of a fear. If you evade paying your taxes in the United States, you fear the IRS, frankly speaking. You get an envelope in the mail, you're not happy. And so what Ukraine has to do and where we are today is we've done a lot in terms of eliminating specific corruption in our gas trade. We've gotten rid of all the traders in between the purchaser and the seller for years stealing billions of dollars. So individual interests were eliminated.”

    2017-01-30 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Ep. 117 - Natalie Jaresko · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source