YouSaid · the spoken record

Paul Conti

lines on the record: 187
first: 2023-02-07
most recent: 2023-02-07
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“So you might have touched their care, and no one's even saying you did anything wrong, but they say the next person did, oh, someone settled on your behalf and now you have a malpractice ding and maybe you can't get a license somewhere else. Like doctors are terrified and they're terrified for good reason because the same society that has given doctors in many ways too much power over time and treated doctors maybe too much like gods now is I think enacting some of society's anger and envy out on the physicians. Even the idea that like a person would know what medicine like I saw a couple TV commercials give me this”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Of the legal system. Look, I'm all for. Of course, physicians have to be held. We have to be responsible and everybody makes mistakes and people have to be accountable for their mistakes. I understand all of that, but what we see now, it's so absurd that, oh, like everyone is frightened. Everyone is frightened than just looking to like how do I slot into the box, check the boxes of what I'm supposed to do and not get in trouble. You know, people get sued because someone was at that hospital and that doctor touched their”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And I think that's the way we help people. I don't understand why we don't do everything that way. It's like we're too humans, but if you're doing something for me, then there's something you have an expertise in I don't. That's why you're doing it for me. The reverse could be true, but it doesn't mean we're not just two humans doing something together.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And then at some point he brought in his mother and we hadn't brought her in yet. And he was in part showing off. He taught me something, right? And I said a couple things, and he felt more powerful. Like, he was younger than me, and he felt sick and disempowered, but he didn't feel that way once he taught me something and we showed it off to his mother, right? And his behavior started to change, he started taking better care of himself. He could see a little more what I was saying. I was like, you're a wonderful person. Look, you love your mother and your aunt and they love you. And like, look, he could start seeing that about himself. But that came from humanness.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And the guy was always wanting to teach me something, right? Because I can get by in Spanish, but he was fluent in Spanish. And he wanted to, oh, you traveled here and he'd say a word to see if I knew. And I was always directing back to what I was supposed to do. And the supervisor, I'll never forget. He said, let him teach you Spanish. Come on. So we had a couple sessions where if you look from the outside, he'd say, what is going on there? They were Spanish lessons. Me, right?”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And I'm not going to participate in the way that makes it about me as much as it's about you, but we're two humans and what's gone on in me may have relevance and sharing it may have relevance. And at times, you doing something back for me may have relevance. I'll give you an example of a person who would not let me help him. It was a young man. So when I was in training who was very, very sick and needed to change certain choices and habits or he was not going to survive. And I had no ability to help him whatsoever and I went and I saw a supervisor who is existentially trained. Where here it's different from existentialism in the classic sense, but it's about really human connection, right?”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And I work in a field that for years and years and years, the patient didn't get to see the therapist was sitting in a place sitting behind the person, right? So that's not, of course, the only tradition and their aspects of that tradition that can be very humanized. But the idea that we're supposed to not be human. I mean, this medicine is shot through with this, right? That the doctor's supposed to be God and it protects the doctor. And that makes its way into therapy. And the idea of the superiority the therapist knows more. I mean, in some ways, yes, but the idea is to know more about mechanical things, like right to know more about facts and knowledge, not as a human being, right? If we approach therapy as a collaborative human endeavor, right? Where if we're going to do it together, of course I'm going to learn from you too, right? I mean, we're two human beings and we're talking about things that are deep and personal and intimate.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think we're much better served by the latter. And again, it doesn't have to be over years. Maybe person might need that over weeks. They might need it over months. They might need it over years. But if I'm understanding correctly, you're describing something that is a real human engagement.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Not to do that, right? Now, it's not just me who has an incredibly high threshold for sending someone to an emergency room because you send someone who's in a lot of distress and oftentimes are sitting on a gurney in a hallway or they're locked in a small white room and all they had was depression they're just scared when they go in and 36 hours later oh they're feeling a little better wax they're desperate to get out of there and someone sends them home i mean so our systems have shifted so much that we we tolerate now en masse what is egregious to the individual”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I say me included, like all of us in the field have let it get to a place where it's obscenely difficult to get help, obscenely difficult. And we should say that's not okay. I think psychiatrists and therapists and master's level social workers, psychologists and you name it, I think we should all say this is not okay. And then we as a society should be saying this is not okay. Otherwise, what you're saying, which is, I think, completely true, will only become worse as there's more and more barriers to getting the help a person needs. And each time a person isn't helped, it sets the odds against them getting more help. I should say here that when I started working, there were times I would send people to an emergency room, right? If there was some emergency, emergency in their mental health and they were at risk. And there were times I'd send somebody to an emergency room where if you stopped and looked, it would have been malpractice.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I agree completely. We should not make Swim against such a strong current to get their needs met. I mean, we see this in such obvious places where an elderly homebound person who can't get their medicine because, oh, there's been some change and they didn't put the new number into the form or Lord knows what. I mean, it's incredible how we force people to swim against strong currents to get things that are just basic at times for their survival. And with that in mind, I don't have a lot of respect for where healthcare is at or where mental health is at. The field that I work in has accepted all sorts of aspects of how things go. Someone else controlling how long the interaction can go on, how the interaction is bounded, what can be said and done, what medicines can be prescribed. There's so many external controls in the systems we work in that we, and”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“hard and I leave and I feel like emotional for a couple of days but but I see that I'm facing new things you know this process of assessment so that one isn't settling for something that is formulaic overpackaged and I'm not trying to be overly critical of therapists I mean there are people everywhere who do their jobs well and people who don't do their jobs well but most therapists are working in systems that push against doing the job well right because they're rationing care and there's a lot number of sessions and there's enough such time before a person can return and so often it's an uphill battle because we're trying to be helped within systems we've created and tolerate that are pushing against helping us”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Thoughts as opposed to saying, look, I'm going to be an empowered consumer and I need to choose someone who gets over. It's not just some basic hurdles of what I think are reasonable human interaction, right? So like, is a person making eye contact? Do they seem interested? These are basic points about any human interaction, including a therapist, right? Then you can say, okay, is there word of mouth? Anyone else has something good? Nothing better than a word of mouth recommendation from someone you trust, right? Or anybody can have a good website, but you say, let me look at the website. What is it saying if there is one, right? Does it resonate with me or not? But after all of that, then you go to see the person with the idea that you're interviewing them, right? The idea that, yeah, I hope this person can help me. And if so, great. I'm with the program, but I'm thinking about it. Do I want this person? Do I feel heard? Do I feel cared for? Which doesn't mean is it easy, right? It might mean, is it?”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The first thing I would say is to change the entire paradigm. Like most people, like, okay, I need a therapist. So people feel often like they're in a weakened position because they need quote unquote a therapist. Then therapists are rationed, right? I mean, how many insurance panels have lists a mile long of qualified therapists who could be on that insurance panel, but there's a certification process. Like, this is making no sense, right? The state's already certified the person, right? But there's so many barriers to entry that now we're rationing this resource, which we should all stop and pause for a second and think like we're okay with that as a society. And by the way, everything else is like that too when we're trying to get help for our health. So let's step back from that for a second. Now it's a resource that's not in great supply and then a person begins to think essentially I'll take what I can get. Like I just got to get somebody and I don't know enough to know anyway, right? And those are very disempowered.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Entirely non productive of loops and sometimes even if we put what would I say to another, let me write it down. It can get rid of those loops in our brains. Any even thought of outward expression is the enemy of those internal persecutory negative thought loops.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Lose a bifurcation in the path of life then. And any therapist has stories like that, which just shows the immense power that it can even be that just uttering the words makes just a cascade of change all at once.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Any experienced therapist will tell you this every now and then it will happen that someone will come and they'll say something. Usually it's very early on in the process. They'll say something they've never said before and they immediately are like in an entirely different place and they may have been for decades. And I can remember a person saying that a coach had raped him and just saying it. This was decades before and everything was different. I'm not saying everything is now as perfect, but his life was in a different place. As soon as he said it, he could see how dare like he thought that person did that to this child. The child was me. He never thought it until he said it out loud because his mind was going over and over with why it was his fault, what he did to deserve it, how he kept going back. So it must be his fault. As soon as he put words to it, he saw the truth of it.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“How could you do that? Right. And the person can maybe come in. They're doing it to themselves. So, you know, you begin to put words in a structure and say, okay, look, let's look at what's going on inside of you. You don't have to be scared of anything you're thinking and feeling. In fact, the fear is in not exposing it to the light of day. That's where it gets the best of us. And now everything is different. And whether that involves use of medications for intrusive thoughts and depression, or there's no medicines needed, but it's all reframing. Like whatever it may be that comes next, the whole world has changed when the person has acknowledged what's happened, exposed it to themselves and to trusted others around them, and begun to look at it in some way other than the stuff in an evil box place that the trauma initially puts us through the reflexes it creates in us.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“If it were someone else, that person would understand in a moment that's not that person's fault, right? So what you want to do is overcome the fact that the negative emotions, the hijacked emotion systems of trauma are telling that person a lie and they're telling them so strongly and so awfully, so meanly that the person just takes it inside and starts to see it as true. So you begin to hold that up to the light of day. And again, one example could be, okay, so someone, the person who's coming in next has actually been through something similar, right? And do you mind, can you stay and just tell her how it's her fault, right? And like, oh my God, no, oh, I could never, like then they see, right? I mean, this is not always how you do it, but sometimes you can get a person to see like, well, that would be the most horrible.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Accept it or I can't imagine it. And I let it happen. So I had to say those things, right? So then I could begin to bring some sense of truth to it, you know, and it was a long time ago, but the therapist probably said something like, okay, privacy sees on you. You let it happen. It's your fault, right? Because you got to get at those things so that one can begin to bring into focus what does the trauma mean and what does it not mean? I mean, a classic example is that what would you say to someone else example? You know, you'll say, well, how many times have I, it's just, I could cry if I stop and think about it enough to stop and talk to someone who is sexually assaulted through no fault of their own, who comes in and tells the story they've been telling themselves about how it's their fault. They should have walked home a different way. They should address differently. They should have left earlier. I wrote about it in the book over and over and over. Now you have a person who, let's say you take a person who's intelligent, engage in the world who's like capable.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Words, right? Like, we don't massage pictures, right? Images, we talk and massage meaning with words. So when I finally went to see a therapist and I could say, you know, My brother, whatever words I would have said, he killed himself. And I can't.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The first thing, the very first thing is to acknowledge to ourselves and often to others, which might be one other person, it might be in words, spoken, it might be written, what the trauma has been because the lessons of trauma, the evil lessons of trauma. I'll use the example of my own life, the lesson that told me that I was shameful, cursed, and hopeless, right? It's a very evil lesson, right? But my brain will say it over and did say it over and over and over to me. And if that just sits inside, that's how trauma festers, that's how trauma hijacks our thoughts, our emotions. So being able to say to ourselves and to another, like this is what's happened, right? Okay, this is what's happened. We're built to massage words and to create meaning through.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And to reinforce. That's when people are suffering too much over too long a period of time, then we're creatures of habit, right? And even though our brains are, you talk about our brains are sitting on the shoulders of the giant of the maybe thousand levels of emergence that come underneath of them. Our brains are also working very simple habit-based ways. Like if you and I chose a word right now and said it 500 times, we would know it's just a silly experiment, but we'd both be saying it tonight, right? Because our brains are also creatures of habit. So if you over and over and over have to isolate yourself from affect and you develop those mechanisms, well, you develop those mechanisms and they don't go away any easier than if we said the word 500 times and decided to forget. We won't forget no matter what we decided.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Not feel the full weight of affect where we know the meaning. Like I knew the meaning of the tragedy of the person I just pronounced dead, but I want to separate that for myself because I'm also aware that it's not my tragedy so that I can then, okay, put that affect aside and go do the next thing that I have to do. That, I think, can cut both ways.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So we know that is not good, right? But isolation of affect can also serve us very well when I think back to being an intern, a medical intern in the hospital. And you might have to go and pronounce someone dead with hysterical family members. And then 10 minutes later, five minutes later, might be two minutes later really, you know, you have to go to another room and you've got to maybe do some procedure that involves having your focus on a certain thing and making sure hand movements are the right way or talking to a person in a way that is very different than where you just came from, that's very hopeful. And so then you have to isolate the affect of what's going on around you. And it happens not just in, it's just one example, but we have to do it in life so that we can put affect aside to process later.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, isolation of affect can cut both ways. So if there's been a major trauma, let's say someone has seen something terrible and they're isolated from their affect. And at one time it was thought, well, maybe that's good, right? They're not hysterical. They're not distraught. But we see, that is not good, right? Because what needs to be held processed, we need to get our arms around in some way, shape, or form has just been separated off.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“If you taught a lesson that says the world is not safe and you're not good enough for someone to keep safe and you're not strong enough to keep yourself safe, that's a final common pathway of the vast majority of child abuse is telling those lessons to people then how can that not change the lay of the land against openness, against the ability to rationally consider trust and mutuality and to protect oneself but also take chances and do the things that we have to do to create the greatest happiness in our lives. We set the odds so much against that.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It can impact it a lot. And I want to say can people overcome and be as loving to a partner or a child or anyone else? Yes. But we're talking across society, right? How are we setting the odds, right? We're setting the odds towards a higher sense of vigilance, a decreased sense of self-confidence, an increased sense of vulnerability, right? A decreased comfort interacting with others. What we're doing is we're pushing towards isolation and misery and depression and resentment. I mean, those factors push towards that. We know that the research is so strong that adverse childhood experiences, that these things that happen, the more, the worse, the more prolonged, the more that person is up against as they try and navigate life.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“If we care about people, we would be so focused on that. If we don't care about other people and just ourselves or just economic costs, we would still be so focused. But, you know, we're not and we tend to just kind of call it good because we don't see anything disastrous happening at the moment. And I think there's a societal negligence there to the shame really of all of us when child abuse and the impact neurobiologically and psychologically is potentially the greatest cause of suffering directly and indirectly on the face of the planet.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Can you think it costs a fraction, what do we actually put into caring for people who have schizophrenia? So first, there's a moral imperative, but let's say we put that aside and we only care about the economy, right? Because there are mechanisms of thinking that look at it that way. How could we not amend that, right? But we are so reckless with our resources and we're tripping ahead of ourselves that we don't think, oh my goodness, there is no better place on God's earth for prevention than here prevention in terms of human suffering and also where do people like that go? I mean, more often people like that go to place of increased suffering, inability to take care of themselves or to be in supportive relationships. Okay, we know there's a higher prevalence of that, but we're also creating the pool of people through which the envy, the narcissism, the sociopathy, the destruction arises. So again, if”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Once a week for 16 weeks or whatever. I mean, we should be wrapping our societal resources around children, but we don't use our resources well. You know, I was just reading, it's a little bit of an aside, but about 300 and something billion dollars a year in cost to the U.S. economy just from schizophrenia.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“With the death of my brother, and I start questioning Am I cursed? Am I worth anything? I mean, it's 20 something years old and doing reasonably well at the time. How does this impact a child of six, seven, ten, twelve years old, right? We're sending such powerful messages that then change conception of self and that negatively changed conception sits upon the negatively changed neurobiology. And I think if we really thought, hey, let's do the best we can just for humans in general, for the human race, for species in general, is we would handle children and caring for children so much differently in terms of protection mechanisms, intervention mechanisms. How many times do you see where there's been some tragedy and the child gets a little bit of support? And they had some therapy that was provided by some insurance carrier.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Protection mechanisms that can make a person feel more fear and more insecurity and hide themselves away from the world and not trust the world. And I mean, not trust the world even enough that, oh, I'd like to have a better job. And another one is here that I could take. But maybe you could be worse than being afraid of that, right? Like there are all sorts of ways in which the changes to those pathways impact someone. And that's just one of we could bring trauma experts together that could talk about that for days, right? Like, what is the impact upon the brain biology? So that then gets changed inside the person. And from the perspective of those changes, the psychology on top of it changes. Like, what do I think about myself? Do I think that I'm worthwhile? You know, even in my mid-20s after, you know, without formative traumas and a pretty strong sense of self and some achievements, there's a big trauma then.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think. The impact of it is so disproportionately Bad, Compared to things that happen when we're not children. And I want to be very careful about how I'm saying that because people can, through their strength and resilience and human interconnectedness, can overcome that. I don't mean to say that anyone who's experienced those things can't make it through it or over it. That part is not true. But it is true that the impact is so disproportionate to anything else that can happen because the brain is formulating, right? So both if we say psychology is like applied neurobiology, right? And we look at both of those as different ends, right, even though there's a lot of gray in the middle, you know, the neurobiology has changed. So just one example of a much greater salience of vigilance mechanisms, of mechanisms of self-”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's not just what's the trauma. He said, What's the trauma that makes certain problems? You have to match the trauma to the person. And a big part of what you're matching to is that genetically based characteristic of how finely attuned is that empathic attunement in that compass.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So intrusive. So it's so much of it is person driven, but I do want to distinguish between things that are just purely bad that we might overcome or find some fire in our belly about or whatever the case may be, and things that maybe boundaries or barriers either directly purposely placed or not that in a sense invite us or inform us of the possibility of striving and overcoming.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You can't do that, and you'll never succeed because what? And then they tell you something about yourself because you're from here or you're this race, religion, whatever it is, right? We think, well, you know, it could make someone say, hey, I'm going to show you. I'm going to overcome, right? But then they're overcoming something bad, right? Like it's just like there's nothing good or helpful about that, right? If someone's saying that. So the person has to overcome it. That's different than something that is placed in front of a person where the whole conception of it is something positive that you can make through effort, right? So, you know, I remember, I don't know, I think I was 15 years old or some.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“No, it makes look, I think it makes good sense to me. I think you're trying to get at like we need trauma and like and how are we defining it, right? Because we say trauma, hardship, difficulties. I mean, we could set aside, we could set apart, say, and differentiate things that are difficult, but that are overcomable, right? Versus things that we could use trauma, the word trauma this way, if we chose to, that are just like entirely negative. Like someone saying, oh,”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Lot of time that's what I'm doing clinically. I think it's what's good psychiatrists or mental health professionals do is we help people see the beauty that is there, right? Because oftentimes we're way too close up to that tapestry. And what brings us close is often the sad thing. So we're up close and all we see is the negative. I mean, it's easy then to get classically nihilistic, but by helping someone take a step back and to see who they are and what's in them, that's how people get better. And it's how people re-engage in life.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, okay, they're going to be exceptions, right? But a lot of our creativity is in some ways fueled by our suffering, although it's complicated because it comes from generative places in us, right? So those places are there. They're not created by suffering, but maybe suffering makes an incentive or a passion inside of us. And a person, you know, Stephanie, who you referred to, is just such an incredible, astounding creative force. And sure, some of that comes from trauma, some of it comes from trauma fueling the generative creative places in her. But what I helped her to do, she's very generous with her words, but what I helped her to do was to see all that she is and all that the creativity in her is and all that there is to create through love and caring and compassion and to again see that.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Trama can certainly drive us to creativity even to push again sort of protest against what the trauma tells us. You know, trauma tells us lessons like nothing matters and you don't matter and nothing will ever be good and then nothing is beautiful and we can push against trauma. No, there is life in me. There's something, there's goodness for me to spread in the world, to express and spread. So I think trauma fuels creativity in many, many, many ways trauma also shuts down creativity, right? People who are, for one example, trauma that escalates to the point where now the person is soothing it with alcohol. It's one example. And now the impact of the alcohol shuts down any creativity. So can people be creative and outward thinking without trauma? I think sometimes, if I remember correctly, people will use Emmanuel Kant as an example of someone who I think hadn't traveled much and didn't have trauma and like look at what he knew.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Can reminisce at funerals, right? And laugh because people could be very, very, very sad and perceive that this person has died and perceive the sadness of it. But in perceiving that and really living in it, then you can have people who want to remember that person by telling a funny story. Why? Because each of those people carries that with them. So I think what you're saying is consistent with healthy function as human beings because we're going to encounter sadness and loss. Like, what do we do with that, right? And do we do things that ultimately create some redemption or even reparation inside of us? And like reparation is a big word in psychology, right? It's how we repair damage and loss. So if we lose someone and we're sad, can we, by telling funny stories about that person, remind ourselves that, hey, they're still inside of us, whether they're out there looking at me, I don't know, but I can call that person to mind inside of us, and then we have something that's good and beautiful that comes of that too.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Why is that sad? Is it because we're taught to think that it's like, look, at some point you and I are going to say goodbye today, like, I hope we're richer for it. And then we take that goodness off with us. I want to celebrate that because it's all part of the goodness. I think we're taught to think, oh, that's so bad and it equates to death and misery. I think it's often not that way.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That's cool. There's elements of the absurd that you said are neat and interesting. And if we start accepting that we can't understand or control everything, then we can accept and I think really love and foster the beauty in our lives.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But life brings a lot of suffering. And for some people, it brings such disproportionate suffering and the people don't survive the suffering. And I think when people are conscientious and empathic, that really bothers us. The suffering in our own lives and the fact that others at times could seem to be so overwhelmed by suffering that they don't even get a chance to see good. And I think there's, I do think there's truth to that and there's sadness and distress to that. But to say, therefore, life is suffering, I think, is completely untrue. And, you know, it ignores the fact that someone even made a trombone, right? Let alone that there's a little bit out of sync and someone's playing the trombone.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think it is a fundamental part of life. I don't think that means that life is suffering, right? If we say, well, life is suffering, then what am I doing? That I'm trying to erase from my mind like the birth of my children, right? Things that were filled with joy, right? Like life is not entirely suffering.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And we can look at that and just kind of marvel and go Which I think is a relation to at least a lot of what we in the Western world think of as Eastern, right? Like as non-attachment, right? Because then if there's something absurd and it's like not good for me, you know, right, then I accept that too instead of getting angry about it and railing about it or seeing some cosmic meaning in it, right? I think there's also a healthy non-attachment in what you're saying too.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“By not trying to answer everything concisely, that yes, we can make meaning. Like we see that. If someone trips in front of me, I could walk around them or I could help them up. I mean, no one can tell me that it doesn't matter what I do. I absolutely reject the idea that, oh, I could step over them or on them, or I could help them up and it doesn't matter. Oh, yeah, try being the person on the ground, right? So we create meaning, but we live in our circumstances. And there are absurdities both within us and outside of us in our social structures. And there are a lot of things that pretend to have meaning that don't. And there's the shades of nihilism. But ultimately, there's something going on here that's doing the best we can in the context of just not knowing.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Are very nihilistic or associated with that. A lot of the world is not liking what we had built, right? So if we accept that a lot of what we have built as humans inside of us and outside of us is really counterproductive and doesn't help us, and that absurd things happen in the world, right? And that often the way social structures and systems build up, you build themselves up is absurd. I think our healthcare system operates in a way that's absurd, right? So if we accept that there are absurdities that we don't know if there's truth, then what are we left with? But like, well, let's try and make meaning, right? Ortega Igasset said, right? I myself in my circumstances. We live in circumstances around us, but within those circumstances, we can make decisions and define ourselves. And I think the brilliance of that, and I think tying it all together, right, in a way that's not trying to be, in a sense, it ties it all together.”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“or what we call a religious meaning or purpose. We don't know that, right? So, okay, if we take that as a given, that people who say that they know are having faith, like how Spinoza described faith, right? Faith is that you don't know, but you believe anyway, right? It's not because you have faith now, you know something, right? Because I think that's a slippery slope to the persecution of others, right? So if we say, okay, we don't know, then we're left either deciding, okay, well, then to hell with everything, you know, like is that movie a strange brew, right? Bob and Doug Mackenzie were like the breaks don't work on the car and one of them says, oh, why bother steering? Right. So if we don't know that there's meaning, like why bother steering? Let's just give up the ghost, right? And I don't think that's even what the nihilist said. I mean, I think Bakunin said we should get rid of everything that we've ever created except Beethoven's Ninth Symphony and start over from there. But so even people...”
2023-02-07 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #357 – Paul Conti: Narcissism, Sociopathy, Envy, and the Nature of Good and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source