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Philip Zimbardo

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2017-03-08

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2017-03-08

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1. “More so. I should mention that I no longer teach at Stampin maybe once a year. I give a model lecture to introductory psych. I taught more students in more different courses than any professor in Stampin history. I had classes of over a thousand students in an introductory site. But now I go around the world and I do training in our heroic imagination project in Hungary and Poland and Sicily, soon in Czech Republic, in Bali, in Australia. So I keep busy.”

   2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

2. “Confronting authority and just making it clear that she is willing to pay this price in order to challenge this moral injustice that was happening.”

   2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

3. “Suffering that is obvious. And I'm still arguing, and then she says, stop If this is the real you, I don't think I want to continue my romantic relationship with you. We had just moved in together. We were thinking of living together and getting married. And so to tie back to the point I made, so this is heroism in action. She's saying, I'm willing to pay the cost of giving up a lifetime with you. And we were very much in love if you don't come to your senses. Now, she never said you have to end this study. She just said, you know, you have to realize, you know, that your perception is being distorted by the role you're playing as prison superintendent. And at that moment, I said, oh my God, you're right. We had dinner at like midnight. And then I ended the study the next day. So this is the best example I know of heroism in action. Ordinary person, you know, a former student.”

   2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

4. “This is in the Stanford Prison experiment. And the same thing in Abu Grade, but in the same way. So I look up, I'm looking through a one-way screen, and for me it's a check mark on my daily schedule, you know, eight o'clock breakfast, 10 o'clock visiting day, 12 o'clock lunch, 2 o'clock parole board hearing. It's a 10 o'clock toilet room. And I look at my Christina, I say, hey, look at that. Isn't it interesting? She begins to tear up and runs out, runs out to the quad in front of Jordan Hall. And I run out. We have this big argument. I'm saying, you don't understand the dynamics of human nature. Nobody's seen this before in action, et cetera. And she says, stop. These are not prisoners. These are not guards. They're boys and they are suffering and you are responsible. And then she says you have been changed by the power of the situation more than anyone. And how could you not see that?”

   2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

5. “To start in September, said she was working at the Stanford Library, and could we have dinner in the evening? So I had to come down on Thursday night, so study started August 14, 1971. So this is like five days in. And I said, you know, come down and then we'll go out to dinner. And what she sees is what is listed on my schedule as the 10 o'clock toilet run. At 10 o'clock was the last time prisoners could go to a real toilet. After that, they had a urinate and defecate in a bucket in their cell, which they hated to do because it smelled terrible. So the guards used on the night shift. And the night shift was the worst one, just as in Abu Ghrahib. The night shift was where all the disasters took place, partly because they thought nobody was looking, that the guards lined the prisoners up, put paper bags over their head, chained their legs.”

   2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

6. “So I will tie in this last thing with a prison experiment. And the reason why I ended the study, and it also ties to heroism. So the Savior Prison study was scheduled to go for two weeks. I doubt if I could have really gone more than a week. I probably would have, it started on Sunday. I probably would have gone to the following Sunday to make it, you know, a full week, partly because it was overwhelmingly stressful. It wasn't clear to me what it meant to have an experiment that runs night and day continuously. It was me, two graduate students, and one undergraduate, and then one graduate student had to leave in the middle of the”

   2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

7. “No, no, the key between altruism is doing social good. Heroism is doing civic virtue. The difference is Altruism is heroism light. The key is to be a hero, it's to take action on behalf of others in need or defending a moral cause. And the key now is aware of potential risks and costs to you. So I give blood to Bloodbank. I give money to homeless people who are homeless. I work in a soup kitchen. It doesn't cost me anything except a little bit of time. In the extreme of heroism, you die, okay? You risk your life. Life and limb. Whistleblowers often lose their job or don't get promoted. But the key is just a perception. I'm doing this despite the fact that there could be a cost, that there's some potential risk to me. And even though I'm aware of that, nevertheless, I continue to do it. If you have five more minutes.”

   2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

8. “One of the ideas I promote in the heroic imagination project is we are most effective in teams, in small groups. I call them hero squads. So when you want to challenge authority, when you do it alone, the authority dismisses you as a fanatic. When you have three or more people who agree with you and you confront authority, then it is a point of view. When you say we believe, sir, that what you're doing is not appropriate, is not in our best interest. They can't dismiss you individually. So again, when you're challenging unjust authority in the classroom, in an organization, in a church, whatever it is, it is always better to do it as part of a small operating team.”

   2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

9. “Yeah, Beth is a great, I mean, again, we all tell the story of Dickens and Scrooge and living in the past, present, and future. The point is we have to combine those. When we think about the past, how do we embellish it, enrich it? But we want to enjoy, we want to live in the moment. We want to enjoy the present of family, friends, fun. We now know the importance of spending time outside in the natural environment, not living at our desks in our cell phone environment. And again, we want to have hope, possibility is in the future. How do we shape our past and present to make us ready to enjoy the best in the future and also to think the future is always shapable, modifiable? by our actions. Now the other thing I should add here is that”

   2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

10. “Oriented is you become a workaholic. So, how do you put some present hedonism joy into your life? And so again, I tried to go from being a general researcher trying to discover how the mind and behavior work to always saying, how can we use these ideas to make our life better, richer, more productive? And simply to take joy in being a human being.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

11. “Clearly, what's happened, people have this negative time perspective. They have just loaded up. They have just exaggerated and misfocused on a few negatives as if that's all there was. Even people have had a life that literally had some real abuse. You say, you know, we want you, we are going to help you elaborate on all the good things in your life. Yes, so one teacher embarrassed you. Tell us about all the teachers who praise you. Tell us about all the teachers who made you feel special. So again, it's literally possible if you understand the psychology of time perspectives change your own time perspective, your time perspective of others. So again, in the time paradox, and our other book is called The Time Cure, we give very specific suggestions if you want to be more future-oriented. Here's what you can do. If you want to be, again, the problem of being too future-oriented.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

12. “I For the people who live in the past negative, in the extreme, this is post-traumatic stress disorder. You know, one-third of all American vets coming back from Iraq from Afghanistan are suffering with PTSD, which in traditional treatment is incurable. We drug them to keep it from getting worse. We've developed a time perspective therapy with my colleagues in Maui, Rick and Rosemary Sword, in which we are able in eight sessions to quote cure in our sample was like 32 vets with extreme case of PTSD and part of it is teaching them about the psychology of time perspective and converting each of those negatives into a positive. Yes, of course, you know, it's not undermining the negative. Yes, you best. buddy died in your arms yes you saw children being sexually abused but now we're going to do is we're going to put in positive slides”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

13. “Perspective group hundreds and hundreds of young researchers in many countries around the world, we meet biannually in Portugal, in Warsaw, in Copenhagen next year we'll meet in Marseille, meet and talk about research we're doing and it's not just research, it's application so these ideas are in psychotherapy and family therapy and clearly in business so it's something I'm really proud of that just a little research idea and as I said partly came out of the Sanford Prison experiment where everybody's sense of time was distorted because the evil of the guards made every hour feel like many many many more hours”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

14. “being high on past positive, being moderately high on future so that you're not at workaholic, a positive future, and being moderate on present hedonism, which is selected when you do as a reward for doing, achieving good deeds with your future orientation. So there's lots of research that show people have high balanced time perspective, are physically healthier, psychologically healthier, achieve more, that always, this is research from around the world, these are the most successful people psychologically even within the business world. So this research that I started back in, I guess about 2000, we now have an international time.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

15. “You can take the scale and you get immediate feedback on your scores. Now, what's critical is we've discovered with lots and lots of research is that the most important thing in life is to have what we call a balanced time perspective, BTP, which means”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

16. “kind of i'm not seeking success i'm seeking behaving in a way to be seen as a good person on on judgment day and i've developed a scale the zombardo time perspective inventory ztpi which which when you take it it gives you scores on each of these dimensions and if you go to my website”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

17. “Controlled by fate, and this is true if you're Muslim controls your future. Now there are two ways to be future. So one future orientation is probably most of your listeners focus on what do I have to do now to achieve objectives and goals that will take place in the future. So these are positive future, future of hope, future of possibilities. There's two other ways to be future-oriented. One is future negative, that you're anxious. Will I be able to succeed? Will I be able to achieve? And so the future instead of being filled with hope is filled with anxiety. A third way to be future-oriented is we call transcendental future. That I live my life so that when I die, I will go to heaven rather than hell. And so it's a different.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

18. “Tell me about your past. Tell me your recollections of your childhood. Tell me your recollections of what happened last year. For some people, their answers are always focused around all the good things, good times, awards, successes, birthday parties. For others, it's all the negatives, failures, regrets, things you could have done or should have done, abuse of various ways. We now can categorize those as people who live in the past positive or past negative. And then when I asked you about your present, for some people, people we call present hedonists will outline all the fun things they do, all the pleasures they get out of life, seeking knowledge, seeking sensation, seeking novelty. Other people are present fatalists. They say it doesn't pay to plan for the future. I don't control anything.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

19. “Happy to do it. The reason I called my book The Time Paradox, which I wrote with John Boyd, who now was a Sanford graduate student now works for Facebook, is it's a paradox because we're arguing that the most important influence on all your decisions, whether the big ones and small ones, and decisions leads you to your actions is something inside of you that you're unaware of. And what it is, it's your sense of time perspective. And time perspective is the way you categorize and partition your sense of time into categories. The big ones of past, present, and future. What we've discovered is it's much more complex and subtle so that all of us live in multiple time zones. For some of us, if I ask you,”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

20. “Socially acceptable. And how do you have a courageous conversation, for example, to say, gee, Uncle Charlie, I love the way you love the way you try to make us all feel happy and relax and tell jokes. But maybe you should tell a different kind of joke because some people wouldn't understand what you mean about black people or women with whether or not to have big breasts. And I think we're going to like it even more. The key is you want to change behavior without the person becoming defensive and really saying, you know, screw you, I'll do whatever I want.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

21. “Yeah, so that ties into the fusion responsibility. Again, this evil of action, doing bad things, bullying, sharing prejudice points of view. But there's also not doing it yourself, but accepting by others. I always think of the case of my uncle Charlie, who at family gatherings would tell the same jokes. It was either sexist jokes or racist jokes. And after a while, people would be horrified, but no one would say to Uncle Charlie, I wish you wouldn't do it. And so one of the issues is how do you have courageous conversations with people like Uncle Charlie, who is probably unaware of the negative impact he's having. Partly he's been telling these jokes for years and years when it was more.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

22. “With a magic, a raso magic mark on your forehead, a small square, and keep it on for a day. And just notice first, the pressure people put on you to be what they want you to be. Take it off. And you'll feel the temptation to do what they want you to do. But the learning message is that be sensitive to the pressure people put on you to be what they want you to be in other ways to like their kind of music, to dress the way they do, to share in their political views, etc. I used to have my students at Stanford do things like that, but also dress up if you usually dress down, dress down if you usually dress up, or do just do some weird stuff and watch how people get really upset at you for very small deviations from what they think is ordinary and normal.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

23. “And once you put it on, you look in the mirror, you see where it is, and then you don't see it anymore. And people are going to say, what is that? It's nothing. It's a square. I'm just trying something out. You begin to see very quickly how people put pressure on you to take it off. You're not different. You're not different in any way. There's a little mark on your forehead. And so what we find is very difficult to resist the temptation to just wipe it off because then you're doing what they want you to do. And the idea is if you can resist one day, eight hours, then suddenly you realize you have this inner power to be your own person. And especially with parents, I mean, mothers get crazy. Your best friend, Eva, and say, come on, take it off. You're embarrassing them by extension. So I invite your listeners to try the game of being a deviant for a day. Simply put a script.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

24. “you know, outsiders, people different than you. So groups have enormous power to shape our behavior, our way of thinking, our attitudes as an individual. You have to separate out what parts of that group am I willing to go along with because I want to be accepted. I don't want to be rejected. And what parts are unacceptable? That is, I should be willing to be rejected rather than to do some of the things that they would like me to do. One way to be aware of the influence people have on you is to be a deviant for a day. And the simplest thing to do is you put with a magic marker that is erasable, a square on your forehead.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

25. “Yeah, for all of us, especially as teenagers, when we're reforming our identities, when nothing in the world is more important to be popular, to have kids like us, that we are willing to become them, that we dress like them, the music we like is their music, our hair, whether we have tattoos, whether we have piercings, all depends on who our peer group, who our in-group is. And the problem is they begin to have enormous power over us. So if your peer group begins to smoke, then chances are you're going to be smoking. And if you start smoking, you're going to die young. If they are taking drugs, you not only take drug, you take their kind of drug. If they are discriminating, again, if guy is discriminating against girls, you do the same. If they're discriminating against...”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

26. “Yeah, but I think it's again questioning. I mean, legitimately questioning to say, why should I do that? What are the positive consequences if I do it? What are the negative consequences if I don't, rather than assuming if somebody says do that because they're an authority, that without directly questioning their authority or power, I think you have to, they have to the burden has to be on them to be willing to explain to you why you should do what they say. And they have to give you a good enough reason. And it can't be because I said so. I mean, again, many parents say you have to do it because I said so. Well, at some point, you have to say that's not a reason. You know, that's an opinion. That's an authority. And then ultimately you have to be willing to challenge it. And when you challenge authority, there will be some penalty.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

27. “Of, well, you know, just obey authority. And the Milgram study shows how easy it is for that to get overextended. So the authority in the Milgram study was a guy in a white lab coat. He was actually a high school biology teacher. He knew nothing about psychology. He was just recruited by Milgram. And here he had a Milgram study they tested a thousand people. So here he had hundreds and hundreds of adults in New Haven, Connecticut blindly following his orders to shock more and more. And he was not an expert. He just had the trappings, the white lab coat of science. So again, it's be wary of authorities wearing false lab coats.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

28. “Well, if he, again, we are all trained as children to obey our parents, our teachers, our religious leaders, in some cases our politicians, but nobody teaches us the distinction between authorities that deserve our respect and authorities that do not. Not all parents, not all ministers, we certainly know from the horrific consequences of sexual abuse by thousands of Catholic priests over dozens of years, that a lot of such people don't deserve a respect. But nowhere do we get training in differentiating appropriate from inappropriate authorities, authorities that deserve respect versus authorities that deserve defiance. And so again, I think in most societies, we air the direction.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

29. “Yeah, I think again for your list is if we turn it around, if you are ever the victim, if you are ever hurt, there are people around you, the way you get help is you simply say, you, you point to someone with the green dress, you with the brown blazer. You redhead. So you single them out and you break down that anonymity of the group and you're much more likely to get help. So what they're telling, you know, what they're telling you in terms of being an emergency responder, I'm saying if you are the victim, the same principle holds.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

30. “Your best sermon about the Good Samaritan. So here are good guys, Prince Aological student, maybe good girls too, who thinking about being a good Samaritan and on the way they encounter a woman in a hallway, an alleyway, moaning, clearly in need. Now, do they help? It turns out they help if they are told, you know, you have enough time. If they told you are late, please hurry, then 80% pass her by. 80% of the people, Princeton Theologic, on the way to give the good Samaritan, turn out to be bad Samaritans if they were in a hurry. So for me, that's such an important message these days where everybody is in a hurry. We all feel time-pressed. Even worse, we don't even notice somebody moaning. in a corner because we're looking at our iPads, our iPhones, our iPad, and holding a Starbucks in the other hand.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

31. “It's something that we have to guard against, is that not allowing the social norm of other people being bad Samaritans to change your sense to be a good Samaritan. Now, one of the things, there's a fascinating study that you probably know about. It was done by John Darley and his student Daniel Batson. And it was at Princeton, Princeton Theological Seminary, where what they did was they got a bunch of Princeton Theological students kids who are going to become ministers. And they said, we're studying the power of sermons. And we'd like you to give the sermon on the Good Samaritan. Do you know that? Of course, they know that. And we want you to go from the Cyclab, go to the recording studio, which is down this alleyway. And when you get there, they'll be waiting for you. And we just have to record.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

32. “Yeah, so this ties into what we were talking about, bystander effect, is that ordinarily we each feel responsible for Actions, we feel responsible for people around us, certainly our friends and family, neighbors. And again, my hero project tries to extend that to say the world is my neighbors. The world is, it could be my friends. And all the research on the fusion responsibility simply says that when you see other people like you passing by someone in need, then they create a social norm of doing nothing when you know you should be doing something and thinks.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

33. “Electric shock to other women when they were deindiated than when they were not. And so when you're anonymous, it takes away, again, this links to another point, your sense of personal responsibility. No one knows and no one cares. Now, again, it goes both ways. In the Mardi Gras, if you're in a situation of fun and pleasure and enjoyment and lust, if you will, people will go that direction. So it means that the de-individuation takes away your central organizing principle of I am responsible for my actions. And essentially, you then go with the flow for better or for worse.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

34. “Yeah, so I did early research when I was at New York University before I came to Stanford, simply putting people in masks, putting people in hoods, taking away their visual sense, putting them in the dark. It's a Mardi Gras effect. We are able to show that when your identity is removed and you're in a situation that gives you permission to be harmful, aggressive, you will take it. So we did an experiment at New York University where we had college female college psych one females who half of them we put in hoods and we took away the name, they became one, two, three, four, and half of them we made feel special. And then they had the opportunity to give electric shock they thought to other women who were trying to remember material under stress. And what we found is college women gave twice as much”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

35. “We have hundreds, I don't know, 7,000 homeless people on the street, many old ladies, sometimes families. So each day I decide, am I going to give a 50 cents a dollar? But I don't just give money to a homeless person. What I do is I try to humanize them. I will pick someone in the street and then simply say, hello, I'm Phil Zabarda. What's your name? And they're often surprised. I shake their hand. I give them a doll. I say, I wish it could be more. Hope your luck improves. And I take one minute to convert that DUNIZING experience into a human one. And I had a occasion recently where a woman began to cry, I mean, because no one had done that simple thing. Okay, number three.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

36. “Yeah, Sam Keane, who's, I guess I would call him a social philosopher, lives nearby here in Marin. He has a wonderful book called Faces of the Enemy. And what he shows with graphic visuals, that before any nation goes to war, they prepare their people to hate the other, the enemy, by having these visual depictions of them as less than human. And then in the end, mothers are willing to send their sons to war to potentially die to protect them from the, in quote, the enemy. So it's really a critical aspect. Now, I'm jumping ahead. One of the ways that I work to prevent that is I am distressed, especially now in San Francisco. We have cold and rain.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

37. “with the homeless they're not homeless they are people who do not have a home so again it's focusing on these are people in different circumstances of tragedy but one once you apply a label it's just like saying and these are you know for Italians WAPs dirty Jew or something of that kind once you put a label on other people, you take away their humanity and then you treat them as less than human.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

38. “The center of all prejudice, of all discrimination is thinking about other people as less than human. So in our prison experiment, we took away people's names, which is part of your humanity. We replaced them with numbers. They were 8612416, 3609. And after a very short time, for example, when a Catholic priest who had been a prison chaplain came to see the prisoners at my request, he asked them, what's your name, son? Almost all of them gave their number. In a very short time, they had accepted our dehumanization and became that number. Now, that dehumanization takes other forms. So by talking about migrants rather than people who are migrating out of danger, talking about in San Francisco, we have a big problem.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

39. “The first time you cheat a little bit on a test in school, the first time somebody tells you a sexist or racist joke and you either smile or giggle or laugh a little bit rather than say, I think that's inappropriate. So again, to be aware that even though there's nothing truly negative in that first 15 volts, it is literally on the path of what we consider a slippery slope of evil. It's going to get 35. It's going to be 75. It's going to be 100. And then in two out of three cases, it gets to be 450 volts.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

40. “Yeah, so the conclusion from the Milgram experiment should be all evil begins with 15 volts. So in the Milgram study, the participants had in front of them a big shock box that had 30 switches that began with 15 volts and increased by 15 volt increments, 1530, 45. And of course, there was a label above the mile shock, a moderate shock, et cetera. But the key is imagine you're sitting in front of this shock box and you see at the end it says danger high voltage 350 volts, 450. You have to say to yourself, you know, when I press this first button, what's going to keep me from continuing to press the next one and the next one and the next one? And then would I ever want to go to 40-50 votes? So obviously I.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

41. “Part of a greater sensitivity to things happening around you in the social situation rather than in the physical environment. And if we want to go through one by one, I can just elaborate just a little bit on each.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

42. “Yeah, so all of these, I would embed in the broader context of the importance of situational sensitivity, situational awareness. So Milgram and I highlighted the power of social situations to dominate personality, but it doesn't mean it's ubiquitous, but it doesn't mean it's inevitable. Step one is to realize your vulnerability, all of our vulnerability. Situational forces come in many different forms, many different shapes, but it's always to be mindful of what is happening around you. And just to be aware that situational forces, a group pressure, what other people are doing, how you're dressed, what the situation is can influence your behavior. And so some of the things that you had just mentioned are really”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

43. “What we think is those people, when a big opportunity arises, when there is an earthquake, when there is a terrorist attack, they will be the ones more likely to take wise and effective action. And I embodied all of that in a new program I started in San Francisco back in 2008 called the Heroic Imagination Project or HIP. And the idea is heroism really starts in the mind. You have to think of yourself as I could be a hero rather than heroism is something that's the job of other people or is the job of comic book characters.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

44. “Of millions of Jews who look like your uncle Charlie, who acts like an intelligent uncle Charlie because he was a very formal intelligent guy. And so I use that metaphor to say, you know, when we think about heroes, we really think about classical heroes. We think about Agamemnon and Achilles. We think about modern heroes like Gandhi and Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King, Mother Teresa. But those people are lifelong heroes. What we should really be thinking is about ordinary people like any of us, ordinary people who sometimes do extraordinary deeds of goodness, of kindness, of compassion. And we should think of them as heroes in training. That is each day doing daily deeds of goodness and kindness that are not heroic in and of themselves, but they really on a path toward heroism.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

45. “Lucifer fact and the subtitles Understanding how good people turn evil. And the book has 10 chapters on the prison study, two chapters on our grave, and then a lot of chapters on evil around the world, Bosnia, Rwanda. And then in the end, I'm buried in evil. I mean, it took two years to write the book and I'm swimming in a sea of evil. And it was so depressing every morning to sit at my desk and say, oh my God, which evil am I going to deal with today? So in chapter 16, if anybody in the audience has not read the book, start with 16 and work backwards. So 16 is really celebrating the banality of heroism in the same way that Hannah Arendt in the trial of Adof Eichmann in Jerusalem talked about Eichmann as illustrating the banality of evil. That is, here's a monster who orchestrated the death.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

46. “Around the world do not come to the aid of someone in an emergency who needs their help. And so these are fundamental themes is that it's so easy to cross the line. And in all the research done in psychology, the Pilgrim study, the Sanford Prison study, and many, many other experiments, the curious thing is even though the majority gives in, complies, conforms, there was always a minority, 10%, 20%, sometimes 30%, who resist. And so I begin to study, what is it about those people who resist the temptation, the power of the group, especially when everybody else in the group is doing it, say, come on, it's fun and games. And so I began to think of them as everyday heroes. I wrote a book called”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

47. “Now, that's a great way to frame it, is that evil is seductive. In fact, Christians around the world say their God, lead us not into temptation, deliver us from evil. And the point is evil comes in many sizes, many shapes. There is the evil of action doing bad things, but there's also the evil of inaction. Not doing the right thing when you could. So this is what comes up in the bystander effect, made famous, I guess.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

48. “They simply say we're having fun and games and they did not have any idea that the images that they took with their cameras would be released to the world.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

49. “Putting bags over a prisoner's head, stripping them naked, et cetera. And so would you like to come on to be interviewed? And I was, and I simply said, look, my hypothesis is that most American soldiers are good apples. And what we have to realize is someone put them in a bad barrel and we have to know who the bad barrel makers because that's who should be on trial, not the soldiers at the end of the line. And that became an interesting metaphor, bad apples. What's wrong with the individual versus bad barrels, which is the situation analysis? And then, of course, the system is the bad barrel makers, the people who make those situations and sustain them. And then I actually defended Chip Frederick, who is the staff sergeant who should have been in charge of the night shift, but he too got sucked into different...”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

50. “Follow up visit and someone from National Public Radio had been my student at Sanford, where I taught for 50 years, called me and said, hey, hey Dr. Z, those images that we just showed were the same as the images you showed us in class of the prison experiment.”

    2017-03-08 · The Tim Ferriss Show · #226: How to Not Be Evil - Dr. Phil Zimbardo · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT