YouSaid · the spoken record

Rebecca Kelly Slaughter

lines on the record: 157
first: 2019-09-30
most recent: 2019-09-30
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“That's a really powerful argument to turn around to Congress and the American public and say, we have tried our hardest and our hands are tied by the law right now. Right.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I think it's great. And you see that in some of the state AG lawsuits. Right. That alone has value for the public. And if you reach a finding of liability at the end of litigation, that also has a value on which it's difficult to put a particular number, but I think is meaningful for consumers.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“There's also some of that. And I think in this particular case, though, it really was a certainty. But to me, that calculation about the value of going to court, I think about it differently because, first of all, I think the transparency of public litigation has huge value. It has huge value both in terms of what it means for the company, what it means for the public, in terms of understanding the company.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's not an irrational perspective, and it's not one that excuses Facebook of any liability. I think it's a fair criticism of them to say that they didn't think Facebook did anything wrong or should let them get away. They were thinking about using agency resources and certainty for consumers. I don't agree with the outcome”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It was three two, the three Republicans voted in. It's like the Supreme Supreme. They said publicly is they thought that $5 billion and the terms we could get Facebook to agree to were much more than we were guaranteed to get in court with more certainty and therefore it was worth it and a good choice for consumers to take it now.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“From Facebook. I'm not saying that we didn't do a thorough investigation. I'm Absolutely. They're not going to be sloppy about it, certainly. Or they're not going to let their employees be sloppy about it. Now, the other commissioners, it was a two to three. It was three to two. The three Republicans voted in. It's like the Supreme Court over there, right, essentially. But one of the things is to try to convince one of them to come over and things like that. But in general, they felt this was the right way to go.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“No, that was just an FTC again. And to be fair, the FTC looked at a lot of emails from Facebook. I'm not saying that we didn't do a thorough investigation. I'm just talking about executive level accountability. And to be fair, also, executive level accountability to me is not about vengeance or being vindictive, but it's because a culture of compliance can only start from the top of a company. Absolutely. And if executives feel like they have responsibility, personal responsibility and personal liability for the privacy decisions that their company makes, they're going to make their decisions.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, right now, in the investigation, you're doing the state of terms. Well, the state attorney generals haven't agreed to that. No, that was just an FTC agreement. The same thing with the House has not agreed to that because they're pulling in all. To me, the trove of information you're going to get is from the emails of the past 10 years. You're going to get great stuff in there because I know how sloppy internet people are about their emails. And you saw what happened at MIT and other places.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So for me, it's one thing to say we're not going to hold you personally liable. It's a whole nother thing to say, and we never will be able to. We will excuse you from that liability. So”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“In the absence of any federal privacy legislation, I thought that affirmative requirement on Facebook would make a real difference And then finally, I thought we needed to pay more attention to the role of individual executives. I thought we had enough evidence to name at least Mr. Zuckerberg in a lawsuit, but I didn't think the investigation I certainly didn't think the investigation gave us enough information about what he did or didn't do. And the staff has said publicly that. Was a release of liability for the company and its executives For any other order violation and some general law violations prior to the date of the new order.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So I thought some of the things that we could do would be to limit, actually not just what the order does now is require Facebook to sort of supervise and give permission for when third parties can access data. I thought we should actually limit when third parties can actually access data. And on top of that, I thought there should be affirmative limitations on how Facebook itself can collect and use data.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The money wasn't enough. And then the conduct side, I think, really matters because I actually could have lived with less money if I thought we were imposing terms and conditions that materially changed the company's incentives to abuse people's data or their privacy.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Here with FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter. We've been talking about the Facebook settlement, which is very controversial. A lot of people thought it wasn't enough, including me and you. And you had objected to this. And you're explained very briefly. Your objections was the money.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We can pay. There's a lot of lawyers. And No, but I do think the agency has an obligation if we have a settlement that we don't think is going to solve the problem to go to court and fight for the right outcome. Right, which is because we're fighting on behalf of the American people.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right, right, yes. You couldn't get them to. There's a skepticism that they're ever going to agree to something that is really. We don't have to because we'll win in court. We can pay for $45 billion worth of lawyers. There's a lot of lawyers. And you cannot afford $45 billion worth of lawyers.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, but then again, you go back to a settlement is something they have to agree to. Right. You couldn't get them to. There's a skepticism that they're ever going to agree to something that is really”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think that that's an irrelevant factor for deterrence. It's also irrelevant under the statute, which requires us to consider Factors like the culpability of the company and, you know, vindicating the authority of the agency, it certainly doesn't require us to consider what prior companies paid in fines. I'm not sure what dollar amount would have been enough on its own to change Facebook's behavior to have that deterrence amount because they have so much money. It's very difficult to come up with a dollar number that's really going to matter for a company.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“If the money is not something that the company takes seriously, the absolute dollar figure doesn't matter. And it certainly doesn't matter how it compares to prior fines for prior companies.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, so you know the order has two sides the money and the injunctive relief. They're both important. The money to me only matters if the money is enough to materially change the company's behavior. Well, actually, both sides only matter if they change it. So my view is in any case, what we need to be doing is thinking about deterrence. How are we going to keep this company from violating the law again? And how are we going to send the message to other companies not to violate? That hurt. Don't do that. That's not worth it. Right.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You're responsible for it. He's responsible for his company, which of course should go without saying, but that's another thing, because I'm a nanny. So the fine was $5 billion. And as you know, I've written column after column saying it should have been put a zero on it, put two zeros on it, make it count. Talk about your objections to what you all settled in on.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, those details really matter, but the idea of executive accountability there, I do think, has some potential. Your response.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Do you have to actually, is he actually certifying that there are no privacy problems or just that he's not aware of any lack of privacy? Yeah, so those are the members.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, although here's what I will say I think that Sarbanes Oxley put executives on the record to certify the validity of accounting and that kind of executive level accountability I do think That is the area of the order that I thought was the biggest departure from the status quo and the potential for change, how it's drafted matters, how it plays out matters. Right.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Its CEO, Mr. Zuckerberg, certified that he's read the privacy audits and that the company, he's not aware that the company is not in compliance with the order. Right. Which”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“In the order is requirements that Facebook not lie about how it's using data and some much more detailed requirements about how it audits privacy practices and data policies and changes in data use, requirements of reports of those audits. And a requirement, their changes to the board and how that it would have an independent privacy committee and their. Yeah, so I didn't particularly. We can talk about that. Okay. And then also a requirement that”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So you can use the term you loosely here. No, because you did not agree. The commission identified a violation or a series of violations and negotiated with the company a monetary fine. So that's for the order violation plus a new order that imposed restrictions on how Facebook could collect and use consumer data.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“To not misrepresent. And then you levied, so you found them guilty of that or whatever, not guilty. What's the word? Liable. Liable for that. And then levied a fine that you agreed on with Facebook, like you negotiated a fine.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's how the news sort of broke that Cambridge Analytica had harvested all of this Facebook data and the investigation had two sides, one into Cambridge Analytica and whether it violated the law, which we also found that it did, and the second into Facebook. and whether it had violated its order, which we felt predicted.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The company will come to us first before it's publicly reported. Right, right. All right. So Facebook hat was under this consent degree and proceeded not to follow it as was found out. This is just Facebook. It started off within Cambridge Analytica, correct?”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“This problem has come up with data breaches, sometimes that happens a lot. The company will come to us first before it's publicly reported.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think frequently it is a news report, right? We read about journalists are very good at their jobs. We appreciate the free press and the work that it does. And it often brings to light things that we otherwise wouldn't know. Sometimes it brings to light things we already do know”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's right when the staff either gets information from complaints or reads information in newspapers or gets information from the company itself about potential violations, it does an investigation to determine whether the order has been violated. And then presents to the commission its findings of whether the order has been violated and what its recommendation is for how to proceed. So in this case, Facebook, the staff investigated a whole bunch of different allegations and generally found that Facebook had misrepresented Whether users' data would be shared with third parties, third party apps that operated on the Facebook site.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's a lot, but we can't do that. We can't just say we issue this fine unlike our colleagues in Europe. We have to, in the first instance, either negotiate a settlement. Or take the company to court. And so in the case of Facebook, we did an investigation into”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Get to that. If you multiply 40,000 times all the users times all the days, I don't know. I don't know exactly how many quazillion is, but”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Down the road. Either finds. No. Because the other important thing about the FTC, and we don't have the authority to issue regulations under the same way other agencies do under the administrative procedures act on the Consumer Protection Side. We don't have the authority to issue fines for the most part in first instance violations. And we can't just tell a company you violated the law, here's the penalty. So we have to do this negotiation and think about what to do. And then the deterrent effect is supposed to be that once you're under order, if you violate that order, you're subject to a penalty of up to $40,000 per day per violation. Now, again, if the agency finds the company has violated an order, we can't just say we fine you a gazillion dollars. We have to either, well, if you multiply.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, you have to go to court with them. Yeah, that's a really good point, Kara. So the FDC doesn't have the authority to issue fines or issue orders on its own. We can either negotiate a settlement with a company that we think resolves whatever legal concern we have found, or we can sue them. And if you can find a settlement that actually resolves the problem, that is very efficient because you don't spend the money suing. You can use that money for other enforcement actions and you put into place certainty for consumers and for the company earlier. And if you're changing their behavior in a meaningful way, you'd rather do that sooner.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Time passes And just so people know, when they do these degrees, it's sort of a push pull of what Facebook thinks it could get out of what the FTC can actually enforce. Yeah, you have to go to court with them.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, and I don't remember that word particular, but that was the general idea, sharing information that they told users they would keep private. And to settle that investigation and those allegations, Facebook entered into an agreement called a consent decree or a consent order with the FTC under which it promised we will not do this again. And we will specifically not misrepresent how consumers' data is being used. Time passes.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So in 2011 and maybe it was early 2012 when it went into effect, the FTC had investigated Facebook for sharing its user's information beyond the permissions that the users had given.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right So let's start with that consent degree that happened 2011. I covered that. I didn't think they'd follow it. Most people didn't think they'd follow it. And they thought they got off. I think at the time they thought they got off. So talk about that consent degree, just so you can explain for people who don't follow every.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And there have been various consumer protection orders that went into place, like the original Facebook order. But the concern is did those actually change things. Right. And what do we do to actually make sure companies change their behavior?”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, I think it's hard to think of mergers that were blocked, right? We all come to mind the mergers that were approved.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, when you're talking about that idea, there was under enforcement for sure. I think that's, or no, none, I think not under, but very little. I can't think of an FTC action against a tech company. Maybe I'm being of any significance.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, my feeling, you know, and I went back and looked before this interview about articles I did 10 years ago about Google when they were trying to take over Yahoo search. And at the time, I think the FTC did stop it in some way. There was no official ruling, I think. It just was like, it wasn't going to fly essentially. But it was so egregious. I was sort of shocked that I think I did a Dr. Seuss-like poem. Like, you may not do this. Whatever I did. I just was sort of a flummix in why the FDC continually, you know, took a dive on these companies as they were getting big. And I think one of them was that we can't regulate this industry. We can't do anything about it because we need it to grow. We need it to be the biggest. We are the biggest. We need to create these big companies, which has resulted in sort of like giving kids sugar all the time. You've got very twitchy children who are very unhealthy. Now, if that's a mommy thing, okay, so be it.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So they tried to pass regulations limiting the kinds of commercials that could be targeted at kids. There was very aggressive antitrust enforcement in the 60s, and this was before Bork came in and sort of had a called for a rethinking. Of antitrust to make it much less aggressive So I think we're now at a moment where I appreciate the history of concern about overenforcement. I'm not sure I agree with it, but I appreciate it. But I think we need to be equally concerned about underenforcement. And with the responsibility that we have sort of uniquely, as you point out in the federal government, We need to be as creative and strategic and aggressive as we can within our limited resources and within our 105-year-old statute.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“In the FTC's history, particularly in the latter half of the 20th century, there was a lot of pushback against the agency, particularly from the right. For alleged overreach. So, too aggressive on antitrust, too aggressive on consumer protection. There were allegations that the FDC was trying to be the national nanny. The budget got cut, its rulemaking authority got curtailed. And I think there's a lot of Maybe PTSD is the right word within the agency community about pushback against overreach.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, I was dead living for that. In my experience in Washington, it's never been more partisan than today. The FTC has a strong tradition of bipartisanship. That's a good thing. It's good to be able to find solutions and common ground with people who don't always agree with you, but it's also important to stand your ground and do what you think is right, where you can't find those common ground solutions. What I mean by change is that”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And I think that that's a good thing. It's a healthy thing. I think we're challenging all of us in different ways the way things have been done traditionally. But I think that that also means that it's a moment of real change and an opportunity for change at the agency. So talk about that because changing things are done how so that it used to be more partisan because I don't think Washington has ever been more partisan than today. No, and in fact.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“My Democratic colleague comes from a consumer protection enforcement background and has went to business school, not law school. So he has a real mentality into how companies think about things and the decisions that they made. One of the Republicans was my counterpart in Senator Cornan's office. So he also came from the hill. One of the other Republicans was in law practice and was at Delta in their council's office. And the chairman has been an antitrust lawyer at law firms and at the FTC for decades. So we have a variety of perspectives and a variety of viewpoints”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Also, all what I think the staff would call engaged, sort of quote unquote engaged. Irritating, I think. Yes, I think I have a lot of sympathy for the staff because five new engaged commissioners all at the same time means a lot of new opinions to deal with and grapple with. And we come from a variety of backgrounds. Before I was here, I spent about a decade working on Capitol Hill covering tech, telecom, antitrust, consumer protection, all of these things from a policy perspective, but I hadn't done enforcement work.”
2019-09-30 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: FTC Commissioner Rebecca Kelly Slaughter · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT