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Richard Osman

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2022-10-20
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2022-10-20
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  1. And he's now working at a computer games museum, which is so far up a street. It's amazing. And I think the lesson that I've learned is I should have said to him two months before he quit, you should just quit. This is not, do you know what? This is not making you happy. They're not looking after you. This is not you. And I know working hard is important, but you have got to quit and go and do something else. It's the truth. And I think if you're not being looked after and you're not enjoying yourself and you don't see this as a path to riches, you're allowed to just say, I need to find a workplace where I'm respected, which is what he's done now.

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  2. What's the most valuable lesson I learned in the last year? Gosh, that's a good question. I think that I'm going to talk about my kids. My son was working at Wagamama and hated it, hated it. It wasn't well treated is my view. Really didn't enjoy it. But he's a grafter.

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  3. Everything, you know, and it's like people telling people, telling people, telling people. And if you've got the right product, then, you know, it spreads because people tell their friends. But I want to, all I want to do is entertain people. You know, I'm not going to be Shakespeare. You know, I want to give people a great read that entertains them, that makes them laugh, that makes them cry. I want them to try and work out who the murderer is, you know, that's what I want their lives to be. Minusculy improved by having read the book.

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  4. Well, you know, my job is always entertainment. That's my thing. And in this book, honestly, it's the very act of starting the next chapter. That's what I aim for. You finish one chapter, you think I've got to read the next one. I want people to start a long plane journey thinking, oh, God, I've got eight hours. And at the end of it going, oh my God, that's great. I got to read that whole book. You know, I want people at night to go, just gonna read one more chapter. I just want to read one more chapter. And I want people at the end just to go, do you know what? That was a thumping good read. You know, that really, really entertained me. I'm going to tell my friends about it. That's the thing you notice about, I mean, it's so true in your business, but in books as well, everything is after the first little initial flush, everything is word of mouth.

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  5. You know, you know, by and large, you know, so the odds can string in your favour. And the best dating thing anyone ever said to me, and it's true for politicians and all sorts of things, they say literally the first date is when people tell you who they are. And then everything after that is backpedaling. So on your first date with your partner, you'll have told her who you were and what you want from life and where you want to be. And ever since then, you've been backpedaling or saying, oh, actually, no, actually, now I think about it. I want this. But, you know, listen to what someone told you on the first date. Know that's who they are, and that's what they want.

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  6. Yeah, but at the same time, you spend years coming up with creative ideas and you know 50% of them will fail, but you do them anyway Know it's not a TV It's a life, and actually 50%. That's not the worst bet in the world. Obviously, what 50% chance of lifelong happiness. I mean, you take that bit when you, but also you know.

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  7. And, you know, perhaps you're not ready to be a monogamous at certain ages. Perhaps you're not. But you have got to stop putting it on other people and stop putting it on chimpanzees and just say, what am I prepared to do? And perhaps there's compromise, you know, perhaps there is sacrifice. Perhaps that's something that, you know, you'll measure against other things and you'll feel that you don't want to sacrifice and don't want to compromise. But don't for a single second say as human nature. It's not you making a definitive decision at the definitive time in your life.

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  8. And lots of other people at home will tell you that as well. And lots of people will say they're in the wrong relationship. But don't universalize it. Don't say, oh, listen, everyone should just chill out. You know, like we all have multiple partners. It's just, it's the natural way. Listen, I've been Googling chimpanzees. Listen, it's cool. That's all fine, but it's you, right? It's your responsibility. And if you're not ready to do it, okay, you've got to stop wasting people's time. And perhaps when you are ready to do it, you'll be like, okay, this is, I mean, my heart was so... Was so ready and open when I met Ingrid, my partner, and Hers was as well. You know, we both had our misadventures. That's the truth. We really have. But we absolutely were both ready.

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  9. You think it fine, right? Don't impose it on everyone else. Don't impose it on the women you're with. Don't impose it on partners. Let them be who they want to be because it really suits a lot of people very, very well. I'm in this relationship now that I pray with all my heart lasts forever. I'm absolutely certain it will because we're made for each other, completely made for each other

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  10. Listen, I'm sure some people are not meant to be with one person, but it's very, very hard to do that and not hurt people. And so if you decide, if you genuinely decide, I am not made for that, right? Enough of this human beings aren't monogamous, right? Forget that because lots of us are, right? So forget it, right? If you're not made for it, if you don't want to be monogamous, right? Take responsibility for that. And taking responsibility for that means not hurting other people. And it means not being in a relationship with someone who thinks that that is a prospect or a possibility. And an awful lot of people take that get out thing of, I just don't think, is it natural? I don't think it's natural.

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  11. But of course you search for justice. And of course I search for justice. And I was so interested to fix things. And I was not able to do either. And neither would I ever be able to, but in order to try and do it, yeah, I made my own mistakes.

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  12. You can be held prisoner by trying to fix the sins of your childhood is the truth because here's the truth. You're never going to fix them. You're not going to fix them. You need to build something for yourself. And I think by sort of thinking, no, I want a family because I wasn't able to fix mine. You know, so I'm going to make sure that... You're not going to create the thing you wanted to create, I think. So, yeah, you just have to, you know, whatever happened to you and whatever you're trying to prove, you sort of have to just, you have to kind of do something for yourself, not to react against other people, I think.

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  13. Yeah, listen, I obviously did the same thing my dad did, so I carried on the circle. But with the intention of breaking the cycle, I mean, that's the point. I mean, listen, our intentions are one thing. What actually happens is something else. And again, I think I was on a fault line. I think anything I'd chosen to do in my 20s would have collapsed, you know. But, you know, I have a relationship with my kids that I didn't have with my father and I love them and they're hilarious and they're brilliant and I love what they do for a living and that's all wonderful. Yeah, you can never, you can.

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  14. Yeah, I think that's probably an alpha introvert. I'll say that But yeah, listen, I love going home and shutting the door. That's my favorite thing.

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  15. How can I help? Either how can I help if you find yourself in a position of power or how can I ask for help if you find yourself in a position where you don't have power? And those are two very difficult things to do.

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  16. It's peculiar. It doesn't make it, it makes no sense. We can look for a higher purpose if we want, and that's great. But even with that, it's weird, right? And it's weird that we have this civilization. It's weird that we have this consciousness. It's weird that we're millions and billions of people around the globe, you know, in different countries all thinking slightly different things with slightly different consciousnesses. It's weird. Life makes no sense. And so the key is to stop trying to find the answer to what is life because that's not something you're ever going to find. And I think the question is, how can I, you know.

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  17. No, I think, you know, I do think that I'm probably not quite fit and right for the world, but I think lots of us do. I think that's the thing. You know, the world is a weird place. I mean, it's weird that we're here, right? I mean, it's odd.

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  18. Well, because I never really took part in life quite so much as other people because of my height and because of my eyesight and because all of those things, I always felt I needed to be on the sidelines and I needed to just commentate and I've been very really happy doing that by the way. I'm an introvert. I love to do it. But I do think you have a responsibility to leave the world a better place than you found it. Listen, there's not much point to us being here. But if we got anything is to do that, it's to sort of say, well, look, for whatever reason I was put on this earth, you know, the one thing I can do is try and leave it in a better state. And so that's, I think, the question for the next 10, 20 years, that sort of service. What can I do? How can I help?

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  19. Oh, goodness. Yeah, of course there are. I mean, my one, you know, I want to, I've always, as I say, because I don't see so well and because I'm tall, I've always been an observer of life. I've always been an outsider. I've never really got my hands dirty is the truth. And, you know, I see the problems of the world. And I try and help financially and all that kind of stuff. I try and do good things. I've never really got my hands dirty. And I think probably in the next decade, I should get my hands dirty a little bit. You know, just helping and, you know, making people's lives a little bit easier. That's the thing. And that's the thing I've always been frightened of.

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  20. I feel contentment? Do I feel there's a nagging? I think I've had years and most people do just there's nagging questions all the time of just something or something's not right or am I in the right place and just that feeling that no, hold on, I think I'm in the right place, which I think you have when you're a really little child. And I think probably we lose over the years, and I've been very, very lucky. And yeah, you have to fight to regain that, which is I feel happy and safe and secure and that I'm in the right place.

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  21. Yeah, and it's a really tricky one. The key thing is to know that you can't be happy all the time. It's not like a kind of you wake up every morning with a huge smile on your face. There's still going to be parking tickets and the drains are still going to be blocked. And there's just going to be trouble. I think it's am I content with myself when I sort of close the door and I'm with either my partner or by myself

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  22. Country, so you get to go abroad and you know talk to them about it, that's fun. But yeah, and this book, the third one, there's lots of love there, and I'm getting married this year. And so it's all little things where you just think the books, listen, they're crime stories, there's murders and this red herrings and there's clues and all sorts of stuff. So that sort of, it's got that Agatha Christie thing, but the spirit of the book is hopefully a spirit that can only come from having, you know, having found some happiness with yourself.

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  23. I think, do you know what? I think it's a reflection of my happiness rather than a sort of a source of my happiness. I think it's a book that I have only been able to write from a happy place and from a place where I feel comfortable with my demons and comfortable with myself. And I think it comes from that. So, you know, the characters, the four main characters, all of whom are sort of quadrants of my own brain, I think you can tell that I love those characters and they love each other. And that's probably not something I could have written 10, 15 years ago. That comes from happiness or it comes from self-acceptance. You know, it comes from there's bits of myself. I'm very prepared to sort of put out there to entertain and so I think it's from happiness rather than being the source of it. Obviously it brings me an enormous amount of joy and it's a load of fun and it's fun that it's a hit enough.

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  24. Bring it on, and now you have the luxury of, you know, and that's the thing about having 10 ideas the sooner or later one will come along. You just think, hold on, I really like it. It feels monetizable. Not going to take up a massive amount of my time because of the way it's structured. And, you know, my relationship will survive and my friendship will survive. And I've still got this thing that I'm going to love. Their whole life because it's honestly the truth is it's not that hard to succeed if you're willing to do everything and to work 24 hours. You know, it's not, it's doable with an idea and hard work, but that's not how your life should be

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  25. Cost I've known so well. But it's exactly that. But again, that's not something you worry about at 21. At 21, you just think, yeah, great, bring it on.

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  26. There's a huge amount of work ahead of you and responsibility. And sometimes you just think, I am not prepared to do that. There's not enough upside in this for me creatively, or whatever it is for me to do it. And that's the same. I know, for example, that idea, like a novel, I knew two years before I wanted to write it, but I just didn't, I knew I didn't have the, I knew what it would take. And with this social media idea, I know at the moment it would be all consuming. And that's not where I am.

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  27. But I tell you the other reason for that, I think, is because you have walked the walk and you've built businesses and you know what it takes. You also sort of know if you press the green light on an idea.

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  28. Quite solid, that plank of wood, and then you step on the next one and you think, oh, that's solid, and you step on the next one. And most ideas by the third or fourth plank, your foot goes through. You think, oh yeah, of course I can't do that because X, Y, Z. But sometimes, and you'll have experienced this, sometimes you keep walking along the planks of wood, and you're like, I mean, these are these are soldered all the way to the other side. This feels like I'm going to walk across this bridge. You know, I'm just going to take up the chance I'm going to walk across this bridge. And, you know, that's what happened really. And that's how, and that also is how I experience new ideas and creativity is that idea of just try and put a bit of weight on them and it holds, you put a bit more weight and it holds. And if it keeps holding, then it's worth persevering with.

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  29. And then in that community, they have every day there's all sorts of different clubs, this French conversation club on a Tuesday and a Wednesday art history. And literally the name Thursday Murder Club came into my head, which is another cloud. All the clouds come together. They go into your brain and you just think, bum, okay, let's start tomorrow. Because when the clouds come together in the right way, when the things connect together in the right way, you sort of, it's interesting. You kind of press your foot down to see if it holds. It's like a sort of plank of wood has suddenly appeared underneath you or like a little rope bridge has appeared and you sort of tread on the first plank of wood and you think, oh, that's...

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  30. An idea about a former civil servant pulling off a massive bank heist. And there was a former civil servant who worked in a very boring job in the civil service, but it was so boring that people assumed that he was a spy because no one's job can be that boring. So you work in Whitehall, I bet you're a spy. And he wasn't. He was just a logistics guy. And so I had that idea and I'd had it for ages, just this older guy, got this plan that he wanted to pull off. And then my mum lives in a retirement community, a retirement village down in Sussex. And I was just down there and just looking around. I think I said, this would be an amazing place for a murder. You know, like Agatha Christie Esque. And suddenly those things have looked, you want to write a book and you had that idea about that, the civil servant all sort of spy, you had this sort of big plan. And then you thought, oh, there's this place and this group of people. They're all a bit older and this place would be perfect for murder.

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  31. Yeah, it's well a number, a number of class, a love of crime fiction and that just sort of vibe that idea that I sort of love a puzzle and I think that's that kind of thing of that's an itch, that's kind of thing I would like to do it. Then I had

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  32. Because of people that love your characters and they care what happens to them, so you can make stuff happen then and you know that the stuff that you make happen people will care about.

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  33. It's like it's never going to be the beautiful shiny thing that's in your head. You know, when I'm writing the fourth one at the moment, and in my head, I know the story. And it's so, you would not believe how gleaming it is and how intricate and beautiful and perfectly crafted and toned it is. And I know that the thing I handed in what I handed will not be that, you know, because there'll be compromises and I'll make mistakes and there'll just be stuff that's wrong. So I'll always be comparing it to the thing that's in my head, you know, and everyone, every writer in the head has the perfect novel. It's all up there. And the thing you give is not that thing. But the key with novels, I think, is if people are engaged with your characters and love your characters. And the nice thing is this book, people, the characters speak to people, which is great. If people love your characters, then the rest is just craft. The rest is just getting the story down. The rest is just sort of putting them on a journey.

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  34. I think, I mean, anyone who's sitting at home and writing a book right now, you know, half the time you're just thinking, what is this? This is absolute nonsense. Or, you know, that wouldn't happen. Or you just think no one's going to be interested in this story. And, you know, I still thought it was book two and book three, both when they came out. I just thought, oh no, I think maybe you lost it. And then the reaction is sort of reassures you each time. Listen, I'll lose it at some point. Yeah, it's impossible to, you know, I'll read back scenes the next day and something will make me cry, I'll make me laugh, or there'll be a nice line. I think, oh, that's something, but you're so close to a book that if you were thinking it was good, something's up. You have to think it's awful because

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  35. You know, couldn't care less who I am. And they bought the book just on the strength of the manuscript. And I thought from that moment, do you know what? Everything now I'm just going to go full steam ahead because someone who doesn't know I'm a celebrity has just bought this book and it's been top 10 in Germany for like two years. It's like non-stop out there. And they don't know who I am. I'll go out there and do press and they're like, they have no idea who I am. They just know the books. And yeah, so I was glad that I kept it secret because I never had that worry of are people just publishing this because of who I am because I could see straight away from other territories that people who had no idea who I am. And Spielberg, again, within, I mean, we'd only literally only just sold it. So, you know, there'd be no hoopla, no announcements. And he bought the rights immediately because he'd read it and liked it. And he didn't know who I was. I have the right now to really put my foot down on the accelerator and sell this because I believe in it.

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  36. So I wrote the whole thing just to because I wanted to prove that it was a good book, sent it to an agent who I trust very, very much who comes from very similar background to me. And I said, listen, you've got to look me in the whites and the eyes and tell me, would you represent this book if I wasn't on TV? And she said, listen, I would 100%. Easy of her to say, but she did. And then just as it was going out to the publishers in the UK, we sold it immediately in Germany, right? And Germany was a big market, Germany, and they loved crime fiction. And from that moment, I just thought, oh, okay, I can now, I sort of believe I liked the book, but sometimes I hated it.

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  37. Yeah, the first one. Because only because I'm on telly and that thing of celebrity authors and, you know, it'll be easy to write a chapter and say, would you like to publish it? And of course they would, you know, because then, again, you don't have to sell a whole lot of books to make a profit in that industry. So I thought that they would just say yes. And I wouldn't have any clue if it's any good.

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  38. You have to be proud of it, and I'm so proud of these books. I love them. Okay, that's the absolute base point of all of this. But once we've got that, I've loved the selling process, which I think a lot of authors don't love. I love it. I love the marketing process. I've got something I'm really proud of. I want as many people as possible to read it. That's what I want. I want as many people as possible to enjoy this book. I want to entertain as many people as possible. And that's a process that I've loved and a process I think publishing is not quite set up for is the truth. And it's been fun sort of finding a way through that.

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  39. Mine was a pebble in the ocean. But it's an interesting industry. And if you bring any sales techniques into the world of books, it's, I think, a sight shock to their system. And it's a very, very, you know, I love it. It's such a nice kindly industry. But, you know, I come at it from a TV angle, which is, you know, TV, you look at the overnight server, and there's millions, and that's what I've always judged things on. And in books, it's a slightly different market. So I've loved being able to apply some of the things I know and some of the techniques I know. So the book itself, listen, like with anything.

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  40. He has bought the book, yeah. He's bought the rights of the book. I hope he's bought the actual book as well. You never know. No, it's true. And listen, publishing is a very interesting industry having come out of television. I know you had a big hit book. And it's a very, very...

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  41. If no one had bought a single copy, or if I'd shown it to an agent and she just said, this is not for us, that would have been fine too, by the way, because I'd written it and that's creativity in and of itself is a thing. You can paint a painting and your attic and it's like the Mona Lisa because you did it. But the fact that when it did come out people liked it was, yeah, I'd say was a huge bonus.

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  42. I put a lot of work into something, and a book is the hardest I've ever worked on anything. If I put a lot of work on something, I want the upside if it works. I want there to be an upside if it works. If I do this properly, I want there to be no limit to what can happen with it, you know, because I like output for, you know, if I put in input, I like output to come out. And with TV, it's sort of easier because, as you say, you can invent something on Tuesday and set it on Thursday with a book. You've got to spend two years. And so all the way through, I sort of thought, if I do this well, I think this has got a chance. So my sort of creative mainstream brain was thinking that I wasn't thinking I need to make it more like this. I need to make it more like that. I 100% wrote the book. I wanted to write. But as I was writing, I think, you know, if you do this properly, if this property hits, then people will really like it.

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  43. Oh, you can never predict. Funnily enough, Dean Deal, which I just mentioned, is the only show where after the pilot, I thought this was a hit. I thought there is no way this show is not going to be a hit. And it was a huge hit. But it's the only time. And there's been shows I've done before where I think, oh, this has got a good chance and they've disappeared and shows where I thought, I don't know about this and they've been huge. You know, you can't tell at all. And that's why it's important to trust yourself and do stuff that you love. So the intentionality is that...

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  44. It's something you're serious about and you're curious about and you have the ability, then just, yeah, think about exactly what you said, which is intent, which is surrounding yourself by more things, and then making those connections.

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  45. What causes delays? You know when your work is harder. You know the five minutes you can knock off here, there or the other. You know when you turn up at a place, the paperwork you have to go through. You know that three of those forms could be two forms. You know that if people knew you were arriving 10 minutes earlier, you could leave half an hour earlier because brake patterns could be changed. You know all that stuff. And so work on that if that's the industry you want to stay in. And if you want to make TV programs or write books or write social media stuff, then just consume it a lot, you know. And I just think you can only be creative in an area you're interested in. That's the truth. You cannot be creative in an area not interested in. It just doesn't, that's not how creativity works because creativity has to sort of be buzzing around all the time and be curious. So work out what it is your interested in and then surround yourself with it as much as you can. It's hard if the area you're interested in is not your job because that's something you have to do in your own time.

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  46. And what if you take that off and you take the container from the ship and you put it back on my lorry and then I drive it back down to San Francisco? What if you did that and the invented the technology for, you know, the container crates as we see them now and opened up all of world trade as one lorry driver just having one idea on one day, you know, and absolutely changed the world. So there's no industries where you can't be creative because if you're a lorry driver, you really, really know your business, right? And you know...

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  47. Yeah, you're quite right. We both have very short routes to monetization. But I sense that's important to both of us. As well. And so we've probably sought that out, you know, and found a career where that happens. And it's interesting, you know, if you're a lorry driver, The greatest invention of the twentieth century, the thing that changed the world more than any other invention is the lorry driver who when he was sort of dropping off his load at the docks in Boston and he's got all the kind of stevadors taking everything out of the back of his lorry and then putting it in another sort of big container to put on the ship, just went, what if the container on the back of my lorry was the same container that went on the ship?

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  48. You know, actually putting the hours in, you know, it's all very well to go. Oh, and they just had the idea on the bus, and then I came in. But you only have the idea on the bus because you spent four hours the previous day with a blank piece of paper in the office, just thinking, oh, God, I got nothing, you know, because that's dislodging so many things in your head. So you have to work on it. And then occasionally, occasionally the gods give you a little gift.

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  49. I guess, yeah, professionally, they've had to be bumping into each other for my whole life. So it's completely natural to me. But yeah, if you can force yourself sometimes to sort of think of the things that have gone around your head, think of the things that happen to you today. Think of the things you watch. Think about a film you just saw and why you liked it or a film you just saw and why you didn't like it. You know, think about an argument you just had with your mum and what she said and why it's annoying. And, you know, is it the same argument you keep having? Is there any way of fixing that in a different way? So just keep those clouds going and then, you know. Occasionally let them just sort of intersect. And that's, yeah, I think by and large that's where ideas come from, you know, and you talk about it a lot on this podcast as well. Hard work is also a thing.

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  50. Inspiration Yeah, I think that's probably. I've never thought about it. I think that's incredibly wise, two different things. Yeah, firstly, increase the number of clouds. Which is increasing the amount of people. If you want to be creative, by the way, you don't have to be. It's overrated. But increase the amount of clouds, increase the data points that are coming into you, the people you're seeing, or just go and do something different, go and learn Japanese, whatever it is, something that gives you a different cloud. And then, yeah, it's...

    2022-10-20 · The Diary of a CEO · Richard Osman: The Untold Story Of A TV Legend's Addiction · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT