Seán Rogers
South Down · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“I welcome the opportunity to speak at Final Stage. Coming from South Down, which has ports such as Kilkeel, Ardglass and the neighbouring port of Portavogie, I think that we should not underestimate the importance of the fishing industry, not alone for those areas but for the wider agrifood industry and our economy in general.”
“It quickly became apparent that the Committee did not have the full authority to interrogate the Bill and, due to that, there would be no time to scrutinise the Bill in its entirety.”
“<BR /> <BR />The issues that the Bill initially tried to tackle that could not be tackled due to time constraints and relevant Committee remits still affect our current practices.”
“<BR /> <BR />Finally, regardless of what the Fisheries Bill initially intended, or what it finally became, it will still deliver a better outcome for Northern Ireland at the end of this mandate. In the end, it may not be the catch of the day, but it is a good supper.”
“Maybe that is a model for us today. <BR /> <BR />Reference has been made to the work of the AERC, its various visits and work on women in politics. The key message for me, whether it is the Assembly or local government, is that we need to be a lot more family friendly, not just for the women but for the men as well.”
“They have made a major contribution to building bridges in this land. <BR /> <BR />On a day like this — the Member opposite spoke about this as well — we have to think of women who are suffering today. We think of the women in Nigeria who were kidnapped by Boko Haram, or in refugee camps in Syria, Calais or wherever.”
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“It is difficult to disagree with those proposals. Those purposes will add to the Bill's effectiveness and ensure that shared education in Northern Ireland is positive. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 6 is a bit like amendment No 3, and it was tabled by the Education Minister. It ensures that those without religious beliefs are included in the parameters of the Shared Education Bill. As I mentioned, that is vital due to the increasing number of children growing up who are designating as having no religious belief. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 7 is a technical amendment that removes the phrase "in this section" from clause 1(4). That is OK. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 8 puts a duty on the Department to promote, encourage and facilitate shared education. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 9 aims to amend amendment No 8 and adds a subsection to ensure that:”
“That is very important. The Member who spoke previously mentioned it. The amendment also states that the purpose of shared education is to:”
“<BR /> <BR />Amendment No 4 is a bit like amendment No 3, and it was tabled by the Alliance Party. There were concerns from those who appeared before or wrote to the Committee that the phrase "reasonable numbers" was not clear and could lead to a poor definition of shared education projects. During Committee Stage, it was agreed that, rather than submitting an amendment such as this, we would seek ministerial assurance that the "reasonable numbers" aspect of the shared education definition would be interpreted flexibly by the Department. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 5 was tabled by Mr McCallister. It sets out the purpose of shared education. During Committee Stage, quite a few stakeholders brought up that topic. I recognise the Department's concerns that it may lead to confusion in respect of the interpretation of the Bill's provisions.”
“If passed, that amendment would mean that not only would two religions being educated together classify as shared education but so would educating different ethnic or cultural groups together. Amendment No 2 removes the phrase "reasonable numbers of both". During Committee Stage, we heard from different groups who were concerned that the use of the phrase "reasonable numbers" was unclear and could lead to a poor definition of shared education projects. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 3 is explicit about including a reference to children and young people who have no religious belief as well as those who hold a distinct religious belief. The SDLP is supportive of that amendment, as we believe that it is more inclusive. An increasing number of children are growing up who are designating as having no religious belief.”
“We cannot build a shared future without solid foundations, and the Shared Education Bill, if correctly implemented, will go some way towards giving our young people the best foundations. Embedding sharing from a young age is the best way to ensure a shared future. <BR /> <BR />I move now to the amendments. Amendment No 1 is a technical amendment that removes "section 2" and replaces it with "this Act", ensuring that the phrase "shared education" relates to the whole Bill, not simply section 2. It is likely that that amendment is being tabled due to the new clauses that will be proposed today. The SDLP is firmly supportive of that amendment. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 2 was tabled by Mr McCallister. It removes clause 1(2) and replaces it with a subsection that widens the definition of shared education.”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak on the Consideration Stage of the Shared Education Bill. Before I move to the amendments, I will say a quick word on shared education. Shared education must be firmly embedded in our curriculum, and we must ensure that it becomes part of the Department's DNA. We must also ensure that it is not simply a token gesture but is deep, meaningful and sustained. Earlier this month, our new First Minister made a Pledge of Office. It includes the lines:”
“<BR /> <BR />The most notable amendment to the Bill relates to Mr Agnew's private Member's Bill, which ensured proper, increased cooperation between the education and health sectors. As the Chair of the Committee said, there is a wide spectrum of special educational needs. Some will require the support of a statement, but many will not be statemented, and their needs must also be met. I pledge my support and that of my party for the Bill, and I welcome the positive impact that it will have on our young people, their parents and schools.”
“While I commend the work done in our schools and the external help from education and health specialists, the current service is unfortunately failing a significant number of special educational needs children. Early intervention is not working for everyone. When it takes up to six months to get a referral to an allied health professional or an educational professional, that is not early intervention. <BR /> <BR />This is an important Bill for the children in our schools, the parents of children with special educational needs and our teachers. During the Bill's progress, I mentioned the SDLP's support for advocacy for children or parents through the special educational needs process. We are glad to see that that is catered for in the Bill.”
“That transparency can be facilitated through the revised code of practice, a document that will be invaluable to children, parents, boards of governors and the Education Authority. There is a need for appropriate staff development not only for learning support coordinators but for all staff. <BR /> <BR />The Minister emphasised the point about early intervention. The assessment of special educational needs children is important so that they can achieve their full potential. The benefit of the Bill is that it aims to keep the child firmly placed at the centre of the process. Its effectiveness will be measured at the point of delivery.”
“I believe that this Bill will help to ensure they are not left behind and that it will benefit their parents and their carers at the same time. <BR />At an earlier stage, I said it was important for the system to be transparent and easy for users to navigate. I hope that this turns out to be the case.”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak at the Final Stage of this very important Bill. Firstly I would like to thank the Clerk, the Education Committee, the Department and all those who contributed. It has been a long process — 11 months from the introduction of the Bill to the Assembly — and, during Committee Stage, we heard in-depth evidence from over 30 organisations, which helped to shape our thinking on the Bill. <BR /> <BR />The Bill is intended to give effect to the legislative change that is necessary to support the policy for a revised special educational needs and inclusion framework. We all know and have seen the evidence that the number of children and young people with special educational needs and statements is on the increase.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer and wish him well in his new role. With his experience in education, I am sure that he will endeavour to get his sums right. The success of any reduction in the corporation tax rate will depend on creating many jobs, but that will happen only if our young people have the right skills set. Does the Minister have concerns about the skills gap and about ensuring that we have enough young people for the jobs when the corporation tax rate is reduced?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer; it is very welcome. In addition to affecting the livelihood of the person concerned, crime, particularly in rural areas, can create a terrible sense of fear in the community. What is being done to address that fear? What is being done to showcase instances when police are successful in tackling rural crime?”
“I thank the Minister for her statement. The best thing is to try to minimise discards. What encouragement or incentives — I am thinking in particular of future quota uplifts — are being used to promote use of more selective fishing gear to avoid catching small fish?”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I apologise for missing my question to the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment yesterday. It was an administrative error, as I was at a British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly committee meeting.”
“When the directive is not met and some aquaculture farmers have to close down, they cannot just move their stock from one place to the other. Is there any recompense for those farmers?”
“I thank the Minister for her answers thus far. Minister, when do you expect the rural proofing Bill to come to the Floor of the Assembly, and what financial provision will be made for the rural proofing programme that is expected to be born out of such legislation?”
“<BR /> <BR />Amendment No 2 is tabled by Mr Agnew. It adds an extra area of cooperation to ensure that Departments cooperate in the preparation of a transition plan for children. <BR /> <BR />The final amendment changes the phrase "therapeutic or other treatment" to "relevant treatment or service". I believe that that is a positive amendment, which widens the range of treatment available to the pupil. We will be voting in favour of it. I await with interest the revised code of practice, particularly its outworkings. <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, the Bill will have the desired outcomes only if there is a more complementary approach from the Health and Education Departments. I believe that the amendments will improve the Bill. I pledge my own and my party's support to the amendments.”
“They ensure that the health and social services authorities must cooperate with the Education Authority on certain areas, including the identification and assessment of children who have, or may have, special educational needs, and on providing to the children with special educational needs the services that those special educational needs call for. Amendment No 1 also proposes that the relevant bodies must share information about a child who has, or may have, a special educational need, but only with permission, and prepare a joint plan for the exercise of those functions. There is also the idea of a joint review. Amendment No 1 proposes that a joint inspection must be conducted on how the relevant bodies have cooperated, at least every three years. I think that that is where you will catch any duplication.”
“During the last days, the Minister raised some concerns about duplication. I do not have many concerns about that, but it is better to ensure that there is no gap in legislation and, more importantly, in delivery. The Children's Services Co-operation Bill is a notable piece of legislation that will, no doubt, be named as one of the positive outcomes of this Assembly mandate. When he appeared in front of the Education Committee, Mr Agnew said that he was frustrated by the lack of cooperation in the drafting of his Bill. These amendments go some way towards tackling that. I agree with Mr Agnew's sentiments that, for special educational provision to work, we need to have a multi-departmental approach. <BR /> <BR />Amendment Nos 1 and 2 relate directly to the Children's Services Co-operation Bill, which has received Royal Assent.”
“I rise to speak to the three amendments set out at this stage of the Special Educational Needs and Disability Bill. It has been a long day and, in the spirit of us being ahead of time, I will keep my points brief. <BR /> <BR />I reiterate that this is a very important Bill for children with special educational needs, their parents and their teachers. The Bill will be effective only if there is a coordinated approach between the Education and Health Departments. It is worth reminding the House that many special educational needs pupils will not be covered by the Bill. Early intervention and a coordinated approach is essential, irrespective of whether the child merits a statement. <BR /> <BR />The SDLP is supportive and will be voting in favour of the three amendments, as tabled by the Minister and Mr Agnew.”
“In the cases of Carlingford lough and Lough Foyle, where we share a common waterway, it is important that there is a common approach, north and south, to ensure that the aquaculture industry is not negatively impacted on. <BR /> <BR />The SDLP broadly supports the Bill. Joe Byrne did significant work in this area during his time on the Agriculture and Rural Development Committee. The coordination of different pieces of older legislation such as the Fisheries Act and the Sea Fish (Conservation) Act can only be a positive step in providing clarification of the law on ensuring greater protection of our natural habitat for those in the fishing industry. Furthermore, the fact remains that we need to modernise legislation to keep up with EU legislation. I support the passing of the Second Stage of the Fisheries Bill.”
“If that train of thought is to be followed, the level of fine may need to be lower so that we do not price our fisheries out of business for relatively small infractions, although the Department's view is that the deterrent needs to be high, as proposed, given the potential gain and the damage that there could be in the most extreme cases. The Department has increased penalties in line with amendments made in Britain in 2009. The question for the House, as the legislation progresses, is whether it is appropriate to set penalties at the same rate as Britain. Surely, the unique situation in Northern Ireland merits a different rate. <BR /> <BR />There are many other issues that we need to focus on as the Bill progresses, including aquaculture licences and fixed penalty notices.”
“<BR /> <BR />Clause 3 concerns the granting of licences subject to conditions imposed for environmental purposes. It amends section 4 of the Sea Fish (Conservation) Act 1967, which provides powers to prohibit fishing by boats in any specified area without a licence. The aim of the proposal is to ensure the necessary protection for environmental features, but we must be careful. I caution: there must be a balance between protecting our fishing stocks and protecting our industry. <BR /> <BR />Some have expressed concern over the fines proposed. There is a unique case to be made for those who fish out of Northern Ireland ports, given the current state of the industry and the lack of profitability.”
“<BR /> <BR />We cannot press forward without proper consideration of the possible restrictive effect that more stringent enforcement powers will have on our sea fisheries. It is well known that there is a great decline in the area. I think that we are all aware of the additional pressures that our fishermen have been under over the past number of years, whether it is quotas or discharges. The House must make sure that the regulatory framework around fishing is robust but not so robust as to discourage our fishing activity. Above all, it must not lead to a greater bureaucratic nightmare. We must find the balance between proper enforcement and measures that become laborious and overpunitive for those who wish to operate in this water.”
“The purpose of the Bill is to amend fisheries legislation, mainly the Fisheries Act (Northern Ireland) 1966 and the Sea Fish (Conservation) Act 1967, to modernise fisheries enforcement powers and aquaculture licensing in one swoop. Additionally, provisions are made to amend the Foyle Fisheries Act (Northern Ireland) 1952 to allow for the introduction of a system of fixed penalties for inland fishery offences. Hopefully, the modernisation of sea enforcement powers will secure a more coherent approach. I have heard arguments from stakeholders that powers conferred by this legislation have already existed in some shape or form since before the creation of the Bill. However, new enforcement powers are granted in the Bill for the protection of fisheries.”
“I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Second Stage of the Fisheries Bill. The Bill is important because our fishing industry is a major player in our agrifood economy. The licensed fish sector in Northern Ireland is primarily concentrated on the three eastern ports of Portavogie, Ardglass and Kilkeel, the latter two of which are in my constituency, not to mention the significant number of small vessels that operate from other harbours around the north coast and our skiff fishing industry. <BR /> <BR />The Bill, as the House knows, is a joint effort between the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development and the Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure.”
“Thanks to the Minister for her answers so far. Minister, we cannot prevent flooding, but we can reduce the risk of flooding. I suppose that there are really two issues. We have too much rain, but the second point is that we have a 20- or 30-year backlog of river maintenance. Will you commit to the reintroduction of a significant and consistent river maintenance programme?”
“I thank the Minister for her answers. Minister, when do you expect to get a final report on integrated transport, including community transport?”
“We have to bear in mind that children spend only about 20% of their school years in school. I hope that the strengthening of legislation will ensure greater consistency, not only across schools but in the wider educational field; for example, in our youth clubs and other community organisations that young people are involved in.”
“It is an important step towards creating an anti-bullying culture in our schools, and in society in general. There are major implications for the training of our governors, for initial teacher education and for continuing professional development. Above all, schools must work with parents and children to ensure that they can address bullying, especially cyberbullying, in a rapidly changing technological age. Schools will be the drivers of that as they build their anti-bullying culture in the school community. We hope that, through the Bill, schools will be able to tackle all forms of bullying, recognise the methods of bullying and understand the motivations behind bullying, because, unless they are happy and feel safe in the school environment, children will not achieve their potential.”
“Clause 3 places a duty on schools to record incidents and alleged incidents of bullying so that there is a proper data system on the number of bullying incidents. Most schools should have a record of bullying. They probably have it in hard copy at the minute, but here we are talking about getting it on to the school information management system (SIMS). That would allow staff to have detailed progress of incidents while allowing them to determine behaviours and motivations. That would certainly be useful, not only in tackling bullying in general but in collating new, specific statistics on bullying. The motivation list is fairly robust and covers multiple causes. Its is important that the data entry on SIMS not be cumbersome and that access to the data be well controlled. <BR /> <BR />The SDLP supports the general principles of the Bill.”
“Although schools will make every effort to get to the bottom of an issue, I know, again from experience, that it becomes very complex when you are dealing with different schools, and even more complex if the other person, be it the bully or the one being bullied, is not at school. Even bullying within the school fence is complex.”
“Clause 2(b)(ii) draws attention to that, stating:”
“should be stronger and more specific, placing a duty on a school actively to review its policies and practice annually. Schools review their policy and practice as part of the annual review of their school development plan, so I think that this should be incorporated in that. That makes sense when outlining a school's responsibility. I also feel that the clause ignores the nature of electronic bullying, which continues long after the school bell. Children in Northern Ireland may get bullied by peers whom they never see in the school day. <BR /> <BR />Again, speaking from experience, I also have concerns about how a school can be held responsible for alleged incidents outside the school gates on the way to and from school.”
“The clause further places a duty on a school to review its bullying policy actively through consultation with staff, pupils and parents. I strongly support the principle behind the clause, but I have a couple of concerns. I believe that the language, to:”
“Official statistics may shed only a partial light on the extent of the problem. In the United Kingdom, there were 26,000 child counselling sessions on bullying, over 7,000 counselling sessions involving online bullying, and over 16,000 young people were absent from school due to bullying. Over 50% of LGBT pupils have faced an incident of homophobic bullying. <BR /> <BR />As well as providing a definition of bullying, the Bill further seeks to expand on the duties and responsibilities of boards of governors, allowing school administrators to manage and monitor bullying in schools more effectively. Clause 2 places a duty on schools to determine policies that protect pupils when on school premises, when travelling to and from school and when a pupil is under the responsibility of a member of staff.”
“There was bullying back in 2003, but today, in a world of smartphones and social media, the ability to bully, antagonise and humiliate has never been greater. There is nowhere to hide from the cyberbully. Those who are bullied may be harassed in many more ways than ever before, and it is a truly sad and regrettable situation when it occurs. A definition of bullying that reflects this and places a duty to respond ensures that our schools and their staff are aware of the impact of online harassment and are empowered to intervene. <BR /> <BR />Bullying remains a massive issue for our schools, education system and society in general to deal with. Statistics on the extent of bullying can be elusive because of the very nature of bullying and the silence surrounding it.”
“My experience tells me that emotional hurt can have even more long-term consequences than physical hurt. That list is by no means exhaustive, but bullying can be hard to detect in a school situation and is, therefore, hard to address. <BR /> <BR />In particular, the Bill gives a specific definition of bullying that schools can follow. The new definition incorporates verbal, written and electronic communication, and physical acts of abuse that aim to cause physical or emotional harm. I welcome that definition of bullying, and I further welcome the incorporation of the aggressive use of electronic communication. I welcome this because the instances and complexities of bullying have, along with everything, continued to grow and evolve as technology has.”
“A key principle in more recent departmental publications such as 'Every School a Good School' highlights the fact that all our efforts should be child-centred. Today's Bill seeks to refocus our attention on tackling bullying in our schools and to provide unified legislative action and duties to guide schools on the best possible practice when it comes to dealing with it. The Bill seeks to empower schools and the Assembly through specific legislative powers conferred under the Northern Ireland Act 1998. <BR /> <BR />From my experience many years ago, in the pre-cyberbullying era, bullying took many forms. It could have been name-calling, teasing, physical attack, isolation, exclusion, gossiping, belongings being stolen or hidden or being blackmailed into doing something that you knew was wrong.”
“Recently, the Northern Ireland Anti-Bullying Forum organised various events as part of a wider anti-bullying event. Last Friday, when I visited the school that I referred to earlier, I was met by three P5 and P6 children with their iPads, showing me very enthusiastically their prize-winning project — a little programme that they had devised in an after-school ICT club, and which they were going to demonstrate to the rest of the school. <BR /> <BR />Article 19 of the Education and Libraries (Northern Ireland) Order 2003 requires that all schools must have a good discipline and good behaviour policy that addresses how a school should respond to instances of bullying or complaints about bullying.”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak at Second Stage. I declare an interest as chair of the board of governors of Grange Primary School. <BR /> <BR />At the outset, it is important to thank Peter and the Committee team for their support. I also thank Caroline and the team in the Department. They have been helpful, and we look forward to more help as we go through Committee Stage. <BR /> <BR />The Bill illustrates something very important: education is about the education of the whole person. It is about ensuring that our children have the necessary opportunities to fulfil their potential in a secure learning environment. That is why I believe that pastoral care is so important, and that is where the Bill fits in. <BR /> <BR />At the outset, I must commend the great work that goes on in our schools to address the issue.”
“I will continue the positivity. I thank you for that, Minister. When the young people leave Hydebank, integrating into the community is obviously very important. What assurances can you give us that the education programmes that they participate in at Hydebank are continued when they go back into the community?”
“Thanks to the Minister for his answers thus far. Minister, you talked about patients being redirected from the Mater to the Royal Belfast Hospital for Sick Children. However, last week we heard that the latter is experiencing pressures that have resulted in cancelled operations. What assurances can you give to the people whose operations were cancelled that they will receive their treatment in a timely manner?”
“I thank the deputy First Minister, and I am not surprised at the attack on the SDLP. I ask him, as an Irish republican, first, whether it was a mistake to surrender this to Westminster, and, secondly, whether he sees it as an attack on devolution.”
“I thank the Minister for her answers thus far. Aquaculture plays an increasingly important role in our agrifood industry and, like agriculture, it is very weather dependent. Can you give us an update on the research done to ensure that our oysters become more weather resistant? Last year, we had issues with the water being too warm in Carlingford lough, and now the water is too cold for spawning.”
“While the focus is very much on statemented children, there are many children who will not be statemented but will need SEN support beyond the school. As other Members have said, the Bill will have the desired outcomes only if there is a more complementary approach from education and health. Working through the legislative process is fine and this Bill is fine, but the true measure of the Bill's effectiveness will be determined by how well our SEN children are catered for in our education system in the future.”
“There needs to be a harmonisation of policy and procedure between the Education Department, the Health Department and DEL to ensure there is continuity for children when they move from compulsory education to further and higher education. <BR /> <BR />I can skip through much of this because we are generally in agreement with it. To round off, the SDLP strongly supports advocacy for the child or the parent through the special educational needs process. It is positive to see that catered for in the Bill. The phrase that is coming out is, "caring for the child". We support the amendments, but let us be mindful that the Bill's implementation must be kept under constant review and that it is likely that fewer children will be statemented as a result.”
“<BR /> <BR />Moving on to clauses 9 and 10, parents and, indeed, young people over compulsory school age will need a lot of support to ensure that the young person is properly supported. My concern is especially people with complex needs. How will the Education Authority determine the capacity of the young people to understand and exercise their rights? It is regrettable that special educational needs support is not extended beyond 19 as is the case in some authorities in England. It is quite conceivable that somebody with an acquired brain injury has a chronological age of 20 but could be operating like a 14-year-old.”
“Speech and language therapists, for example, can deliver speech and language therapy in a range of ways. They can provide some therapy in the classroom. They may work with the teacher or the classroom assistant to put in place communication strategies to be used in all interactions with the child. In other instances, a child will require intensive one-to-one therapy outside the classroom for a time. Will health professionals really input to this system? As we move through these clauses, we need to say that it is important that the appeals process does not become a bureaucratic nightmare. It needs to be there to help parents, children and schools to make sure that they can understand it. Mediation is a very important process and, again, we need clarity on that.”