Seán Rogers
South Down · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“I welcome the opportunity to speak at Final Stage. Coming from South Down, which has ports such as Kilkeel, Ardglass and the neighbouring port of Portavogie, I think that we should not underestimate the importance of the fishing industry, not alone for those areas but for the wider agrifood industry and our economy in general.”
“It quickly became apparent that the Committee did not have the full authority to interrogate the Bill and, due to that, there would be no time to scrutinise the Bill in its entirety.”
“<BR /> <BR />The issues that the Bill initially tried to tackle that could not be tackled due to time constraints and relevant Committee remits still affect our current practices.”
“<BR /> <BR />Finally, regardless of what the Fisheries Bill initially intended, or what it finally became, it will still deliver a better outcome for Northern Ireland at the end of this mandate. In the end, it may not be the catch of the day, but it is a good supper.”
“Maybe that is a model for us today. <BR /> <BR />Reference has been made to the work of the AERC, its various visits and work on women in politics. The key message for me, whether it is the Assembly or local government, is that we need to be a lot more family friendly, not just for the women but for the men as well.”
“They have made a major contribution to building bridges in this land. <BR /> <BR />On a day like this — the Member opposite spoke about this as well — we have to think of women who are suffering today. We think of the women in Nigeria who were kidnapped by Boko Haram, or in refugee camps in Syria, Calais or wherever.”
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“We must reflect on what is happening in Northern Ireland. She talked about the tourist industry having a great growth potential. She talked about support for the Pubs of Ulster and the Northern Ireland Hotels Federation, and she said that she will keep pushing the case forward. I have no doubt that she will. She said that we do not need more research, and that is good. The case is made; let us press ahead. From her previous role as Minister of Trade and Investment, she has a good insight into the ways that VAT reduction could develop our economy. <BR /> <BR />Minister Foster has indicated on previous occasions that the Treasury has little appetite for this reduction.”
“It just brings home in the border counties, whether you are in the South Down constituency or in Fermanagh, the real effect that the increased VAT rate has in the North as opposed to going South. If somebody is going to make their mind up about having a wedding or going out for a meal, the different VAT rate could make the difference. He talked about driving forward our economy and how important that is to us all. <BR /> <BR />I want to commend the Minister for being here and for the work that she has done in her previous role and, no doubt, in her present role. She said that there was a bit of unreality about the debate today, but, having passed that by, there is a reality that a 20% VAT rate does reduce people's spending power and so on. It turns tourists off. Again, she asked us important questions.”
“He also talked about the Isle of Man. <BR /> <BR />Mr McCrea commended both the previous and present Finance Ministers and talked about how it is affecting hoteliers in his constituency. I disagree with him; we are not wasting our time talking about this. It is important to have a good, united message going out from the Assembly today. Basil talked about how we are good at asking for a cut in taxation and wishing to spend more. He talked about cutting and pasting etc. He talked about the same old same old, but he did ask very pertinent questions. What drives our tourism? He gave us a lot to think about. It reminded me a wee bit of that old song of Johnny Nash many years ago, 'There Are More Questions Than Answers'. <BR /> <BR />Then we got a Fermanagh perspective from Phil.”
“So many people fly to Dublin and then turn right instead of left, and we never see them again. He talked about it being an even playing field. <BR /> <BR />Ms McKevitt talked about the economic potential and how 23 countries out there have less than 10% VAT. That is something that we have to aim for. I think somebody made a point about the loss in revenue to the Exchequer. A reduction in VAT would actually encourage more people to spend their money and come in, so, at the end of the day, HMRC would still get its money. <BR /> <BR />Mr Cree talked about the Cut Tourism VAT campaign. He talked about the Hotels Federation and how the UK has the third highest VAT rate. He talked about the Ulster Unionist manifesto and reminded us what VAT is really all about. One in four members of the EU has not reduced VAT.”
“Mr Lunn talked about the tourist industry that we are proud of, but it needs nurtured and developed. He said that we are so far away from London, and that is the reason why we need our MPs to really work out there. If we want to achieve our Programme for Government targets we really need to make sure that our tourism industry is vibrant. <BR /> <BR />Mr McQuillan gave us a north coast perspective, and it is no different to the south Down perspective. We must work together on this. He talked about working collectively. At this time, my thoughts and prayers are with the two people who were seriously injured at the weekend. I am glad to hear that they are making a recovery. <BR /> <BR />Mr McKay said that we have not moved on very much in three years. He talked about air passenger duty as an impediment as well.”
“Mrs Overend talked about our MPs in Westminster working together. Look at how the VAT rate was reduced in the Isle of Man and what a difference it has made there. She said that there is a job of work to do for all of our MPs, and I agree.”
“He said that there is only one tool in the box and talked about a punitive tax and air passenger duty, and he is right. He made the very important point that we want to grow indigenous business because that is the future for Northern Ireland.”
“<BR /> <BR />I come now to the various contributions. Mr McGlone said it was time for the tourist industry to unleash its full potential. He talked about how 13 member states have reduced the VAT rate and how a 5% VAT rate would bring 3,300 jobs and up to £4 billion into our economy. An important point he made is that visitors respond to a reduced rate of VAT, increasing demand and stimulating industry, which can in turn expand and grow to create more employment. <BR /> <BR />I did not know that Mr Girvan is a poet. He talked about it being a Westminster issue. Yes it is. We are unique here and, as he said, we have to use all the tools in the box to make sure that this happens. Mr Ó Muilleoir talked about gratitude to the tourist industry right across the North and how difficult it has it, which is a very important point.”
“Five years ago, we were told the same about the devolution of corporation tax, but discussions between Westminster and the Executive created a road map. The same road map can make a reduction in tourism VAT a reality. Creating that flexibility with VAT would help to boost our tourism economy and open the door to greater flexibility. I mentioned in the Chamber recently the reduction of the VAT rate for home improvements. Such flexibilities could kick-start our economy and would increase HMRC's revenue. <BR /> <BR />Today, around the House, we speak with a united voice. My colleague Margaret Ritchie has brought the matter to the Floor of Westminster. The Minister talked about our 14 MPs. It would be great if our 18 MPs would stand on the Floor of Westminster with the same message that we have today and push it for us.”
“They will see some of our best golfers compete against other world-class players. We will experience a fantastic boost in the short term, but the long-term gain will simply not materialise if the right policies are not in place. One of the key policies we need is a reduction in VAT. We also need the right infrastructure in place. The Narrow Water bridge project must be renewed to capitalise on the publicity that the Irish Open will bring to south Down and, indeed, to all of Northern Ireland. The loss of EU funding was regrettable, but we must keep Narrow Water bridge on the agenda. <BR /> <BR />We all know, as Members said, that VAT is a Treasury responsibility, but that does not mean that we leave it to Westminster.”
“Northern Ireland must take heed of that, and of the fact that we face a greater challenge than England, Scotland and Wales. Tourists who want to come for an Irish experience are more likely to go to the part of Ireland with a thriving and vibrant tourist industry. Our local tourism and hospitality sector is facing increasingly challenging conditions with rates of such disparity. The UK remains one of only two countries in the EU not to offer some sort of tax relief for the tourism industry. <BR /> <BR />Northern Ireland's tourism and hospitality sector plays a key role in creating and maintaining employment in the North and in attracting visitors, yet its true potential remains untapped. In south Down, we have some of the most breathtaking landscape, which visitors to the Irish Open will see next week.”
“First, I thank the Minister for being here and all the Members for their contributions, which I will come to in a few minutes. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the opportunity to highlight the very real benefits that reducing tourism VAT would bring to Northern Ireland. With the Irish Open coming to south Down in just a few days, there is an ideal opportunity to consider how we can grow our growing reputation as an ideal location for world-class events. <BR /> <BR />Minister Noonan's recent announcement that the South has no immediate plans to raise the VAT rate further demonstrates the positive impact that it is having on their economy. They have experienced a rise in visitor numbers and a growth in industry. What began as a temporary measure has been retained in successive Budgets because of its fantastic impact.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Will he also clarify whether there will be no first-class carriage or catering facilities? In particular, will the first train that leaves Belfast around 6.50 am and stops in Newry have only three carriages? If any of those things are the case over that two or three months, many people could move off the train and not come back.”
“Thanks to the Minister for his statement. Following on from that, I was somewhat surprised that there was little mention of education in the statement. I think that Mr Ross asked a question and you responded. Many of our young people who are in the youth justice system believe that they have been failed by our education system, particularly in literacy and numeracy. In the scoping exercise, what will the input be from the likes of the Education Authority, schools and the Department, with specific reference to getting our young people to reconnect to education?”
“<BR /> <BR />As the proposer of the motion said, it is positive action, not platitudes, that we need.”
“It is unacceptable that moneys that those projects and organisations depend on are not materialising due to inefficiencies. That is something that, one assumes, could be easily rectified. <BR /> <BR />I urge the Executive to recognise the vital work that the community and voluntary sector does. Whilst it has shown itself capable of doing more with less, it is approaching breaking point. Many of the Executive's own policy priorities and targets will not be met without the support of the community and voluntary sector. <BR /> <BR />Community and voluntary organisations across Northern Ireland provide a lifeline for local people. We need the delivery of local services in our communities to ensure the health and well-being of those most in need and that our children have the right start in life and access to all opportunities.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. I agree fully with him. Furthermore, those groups and projects are not only suffering because of red-marker cuts; they bear the brunt of departmental inefficiencies. We talk about European social funds and the unspent money there that must be returned. From community education to women's centres, thousands of people rely on and benefit from the vital services that the community and voluntary sector delivers. That unspent money has an enormous knock-on effect for the people employed by those organisations and those who avail themselves of them. <BR /> <BR />Organisations are experiencing delays in funding from DEL due to the fact that the EU Commission has suspended its funding for the third time due to auditing processes. The Minister must address that urgently.”
“Women's centres, groups and organisations deliver a wide range of front-line services to the most disadvantaged in the community. However, in order to deliver those services, they must secure different packages of funding from up to eight Departments. Each of those Departments and, in turn, their agencies, has imposed cuts of varying degrees to their budgets. The cumulative effect of all those cuts on organisations will result in the withdrawal of services, including the training and education budget for women, which includes childcare provision; and the support for additional childcare staff and additional staff that enables crèches to take referrals from social services to place vulnerable children in need of care. That knock-on cumulative effect will really hit front-line services.”
“Less funding means fewer staff means less support and — something that the Minister was very strong on in his previous role as Chair of the Education Committee — less early intervention for our children, increasing the problems of numeracy and literacy and, indeed, social skills in our schools. <BR /> <BR />Take, for example, the view of the Newry Confederation of Community Groups, which is a subregional community development organisation that provides support to a large number of local community and voluntary sector groups throughout the area. It has its finger on the pulse, and it is confirming that a continual and disproportionate level of cuts has been applied to the community and voluntary sector to date. <BR /> <BR />Mr Douglas talked about women's organisations.”
“<BR /> <BR />For example, there is the Delivering Social Change project, and I remind the House of the objectives of that framework: a sustained reduction in poverty and associated issues across all ages; and an improvement in children and young people's health, well-being and life opportunities. How can the programme work with community and voluntary organisations to tackle social problems within communities if the sector faces wipeout? From a strategic point of view, that is completely illogical. <BR /> <BR />To make matters worse, cuts in early years and Sure Start programmes will, despite promises, hit front-line services. Right across our constituencies, groups such as the Dunnaman Children's Centre on the Scrogg Road in Kilkeel in my area make a real difference to children, families and the community at large.”
“The community and voluntary sector makes an extremely important contribution in its efforts to deliver front-line services. The stringent cuts to that sector are one of the reasons why our Minister has consistently voted against the Budget. The cuts to the community and voluntary organisations are unfair and disproportionate, with little, if any, evidence of an assessment of the impact of the cuts. The cuts come at a terrible cost. We are trying to address the problems that arise for people relying on the services provided by the sector. This is not just an issue for the sector that the Executive can wash their hands off. Many of those cuts directly contradict Executive policy and will cost the Executive in the long term as they struggle to meet the targets that they have set.”
“Following on from Mr Sheehan's question, Minister, what discussions have you had with your DEL colleague to ensure that students in Stranmillis and students who are doing PGCEs have equal access to the certificate?”
“I thank the Minister for that. Has she any thoughts about reallocating Civil Service jobs from the city to rural areas such as south Down?”
“I, too, congratulate the Minister on her new position. <BR /> <BR />Minister, what extra can be done to support and stimulate the SME construction companies? I appreciate that you are only into the job, but this is more of a suggestion than anything else. Given that VAT is zero on new builds, would you consider a reduction in VAT to, say, 5% on home improvements that are, say, under £15,000? That would unlock a lot of capital and do a lot for the smaller companies in the construction industry, but, in the long term, the Exchequer would still get the same money back.”
“My SDLP colleagues and I welcomed the Work and Families Act. In turn, we welcome and support all these regulations. The Work and Families Act was designed to help to address inequality by taking steps towards creating a culture of shared parenting. I welcome these regulations, which provide for qualifying birth parents, adopters and intended parents in surrogacy arrangements to qualify for shared parental leave.”
“Thanks, Minister, for your statement. To secure the economic future of this part of the land, we need good road infrastructure. Particularly on improving the economic potential of south Down, can you tell me about the latest developments in your discussions with your Southern counterparts on the Narrow Water Bridge and the southern relief road?”
“Minister, have you ruled out the possibility of other partner organisations delivering the courses? Will they be the sole responsibility of the Northern Ireland colleges network?”
“I thank the deputy First Minister for his answers. What plans are in place to disseminate the good practice and to begin to help the three in 10 who do not reach an acceptable standard of numeracy and literacy?”
“There is a great wee niche market in which to develop the tourist potential of angling right across the whole area. What are you, as Minister, doing to promote angling as a sport?”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. Lambs are the just the same whether they are reared in the Mournes or in Carlingford. Can you put a timeline on the negotiations and discussions? It is important to farmers that they get a reasonable price for their lambs.”
“I thank the Minister for her answers thus far. I welcome the further funding from Europe for developing our agrifood economy. What grant aid support from Europe will DARD be applying for to assist the fishing ports of Portavogie, Ardglass and Kilkeel? I am thinking specifically of something like the Kilkeel vision 2020 for the new port.”
“However, most people want to know what we are going to do about it. It is important that we implement the recommendations of the review and help to encourage and support more women to run for election in Northern Ireland at all levels. <BR /> <BR />I am confident that the vast work undertaken by this Committee will prove to be beneficial to the House and the Secretary of State. Thank you, Mr Speaker; that was short and sweet.”
“<BR /> <BR />Petitions of concern were designed to protect the equality and human rights of vulnerable groups. It is clear that the use of petitions of concern has evolved over the life of the Assembly, and they are being abused in a capricious manner. I am sure the discussions between the parties on petitions of concern will be aided and informed by the review so that we can ensure that petitions are employed in accordance with their originally intended purpose. The SDLP believes that any change in the use of petitions must be reflected in standing orders and be adjudicated upon. <BR /> <BR />The debate on the review into women in politics and in the Assembly nicely coincided with the celebrations for International Women's Day. It was heartening to hear cross-party recognition and support for the need for more women to enter politics.”
“These reports are the product of a number of years' work and research, and I place on record my thanks and the SDLP's thanks to the Committee's Clerks and staff for their tremendous work. <BR /> <BR />As the previous Member said, the Committee's work involved working through the detail of the operational needs of Parts 3 and 4 of the Northern Ireland Act. Two reviews that I was recently involved with and would highlight were on petitions of concern and women in politics. <BR /> <BR />Voter disillusionment with Stormont, and with politics more generally, has been highlighted to me, and many in this House I am sure, in the past few weeks as we have been canvassing. Those two reviews, in particular, could help to lay the foundations for voters to start becoming more engaged with our politics.”
“You talk about winners and losers, but I have not found very many winners in this situation in towns like Kilkeel, Newcastle and Castlewellan in South Down. What can the Department do to keep shutters going up when the rates for businesses, like pound shops, have gone from £6,200 to £16,200? How can you convince businesses like that and many others? What can the Department do to keep them open?”
“We all acknowledge the great work of the autism centre at Middletown. What discussions have taken place with your Southern counterpart to share the good practice and ensure that children with ASD who fall outside the remit of Middletown have their educational needs met?”
“The same is the case in England and Wales. It is very annoying when I hear it said that the Catholic certificate is an irrelevancy. I find it very hard to comprehend where that comes from, having spent so long in the classroom. The Catholic certificate in religious education is a requirement for any teacher who wants to teach in a Catholic school, whether it is in England, Scotland or Wales, and it should be the same in Northern Ireland. We need to make the certificate more available to all our trainee teachers.”
“There are just one or two other points to make. Mr Kinahan talked about Scotland. I will quote directly from the Scottish Catholic Education Service's website:”
“I am quite happy to have greater cooperation between Stranmillis and St Mary's, but the key point is that the certificate has to be open to all students, not just those in St Mary's. I am quite happy with that.”
“Subsequently, the need to pay upfront fees and the lack of support and available resources can prove off-putting. <BR /> <BR />The motion calls for the removal of an opportunity for our student teachers to achieve an additional qualification. We need to ensure that students from Stranmillis are fully informed and aware of this opportunity and given the full support necessary to work towards it. That may include looking again at the provision of fees. Students at Stranmillis should not be denied the opportunity to enhance their CVs in our increasingly competitive job market, one that will become all the more competitive with looming education cuts.”
“The Catholic ethos permeates all aspects of the curriculum. <BR /> <BR />Reference was made to barriers. The certificate itself is not a barrier; it is additional training to enable nursery or primary-school teachers to conduct religious education classes confidently through a Christian ethos. That also involves sacramental preparation in primary 4 and primary 7, which constitutes an important milestone in the religious education curriculum. Rather, the barrier is for students who face practical difficulties in obtaining the certificate. Students at Stranmillis University College can obtain the certificate by distance learning. A lack of awareness coupled with little information about the course presents the first barrier for students.”
“Many parents want their children to be taught in a Catholic ethos, but by no stretch of the imagination does that mean that they want their children to be segregated. <BR /> <BR />As a former teacher and principal who has colleagues, and has taught many pupils, who were not from the Catholic tradition, I find the motion disappointing and, indeed, ignorant of what a Catholic education entails. Faith formation is an integral part of a Catholic education. It is like a three-legged stool: what happens in the school, the parish and the home. They are all complementary; if you take one away, the stool crashes. The religious education provided by our teachers is essential for the right foundation in life and the development of the Catholic ethos. Our primary-school teachers do not teach just religious education but the whole curriculum.”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak against the motion. <BR /> <BR />First, I must address the wildly misleading and, frankly, wrong assertion in the motion that the certificate in religious education permits discrimination on grounds of religious belief. Those Members who are more inclined to exaggerate need to be reminded that a certificate is a qualification, not a conversion. Catholicism, let alone strict adherence to the Catholic faith, is not a prerequisite. <BR /> <BR />The SDLP is a strong advocate of parental choice, which is why we fought so hard to ensure that the Irish-medium, integrated and voluntary grammar schools were represented on the board of the new Education Authority. We have a unique education landscape in Northern Ireland, which must be managed respectfully and inclusively.”
“I thank the Member for her answer and ask her to give an estimated timeline for the roll-out of this legislation.”
“Minister, I think we are all concerned about the budget situation, but we know that education should be for all. How do you reconcile the increasing need to ensure that our special educational needs children have access to the full curriculum while at the same time 1,000 classroom assistants are going to lose their jobs?”
“Informative and correct career advice should ensure that more girls and young women are fully aware of the benefits that studying these subjects can bring. It is not a case of forcing students into taking subjects that they have no interest in, but no student should choose not to take up a STEM subject because of a lack of information or a misperception of it being a boys-only club.”
“There is one STEM bus that travels round schools in Northern Ireland. That one bus is not even enough. With less money now, we are in a serious position. <BR /> <BR />STEM is not confined to graduates. A study in 2013 by the CBI reported that 42% of UK employers had struggled to recruit STEM-proficient staff at every level, ranging from apprentices to postgrads. There is an important role here for further education colleges in helping to bridge that gap. <BR /> <BR />We must build the foundation of STEM in schools. Likewise, it is vital that students get correct career advice that is tailored to them as early as possible. STEM is male-dominated. Reasons for the lack of female representation in the industry are varied, but tackling these barriers in schools is one of the first steps that we must take.”
“The shortfall in the sector will increase if it is left unchecked. <BR /> <BR />Various reports have noted the concern that there is a gap that needs to be bridged between STEM education and what industry requires. We cannot have a discrete departmental approach to this. The Minister for Employment and Learning, the Minister of Education and the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment need to come together to ensure that the STEM curriculum is attractive to employers and equips young people with the skills that are prized by industry. <BR /> <BR />A Member mentioned earlier the good work that goes on in primary and post-primary schools. I agree, but there is not enough of it; it is not universal across the system. I am particularly concerned about the reduction in the Sentinus budget.”
“This was aptly summed up in the Science and Technology Committee's report, 'Women in Scientific Careers', which was helpfully provided by the Research and Information Service. It asserted:”
“Repeated studies down the years have done tremendous work to highlight how vital STEM subjects are to the economy. This is not to disparage the arts or humanities and the important role that they play in personal education, fulfilment, society and the knowledge economy, but the lack of uptake of STEM subjects is worrying. If we are to generate a high level of research and development, we need engineers, technicians and skilled scientists working in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />The demand for STEM graduates is increasing at a time when Northern Ireland faces a brain drain, with so many young people studying and working abroad on a one-way ticket out of Northern Ireland.”