Alastair Ross
East Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Over the weekend, she supported an independent investigation into everything that is going on in the RHI scheme. She has been working with the Economy Minister to try to make sure that we have something in place in early January to stop the costs of the scheme and reduce the cost.”
“There is no doubt that it has been an incredibly difficult time over the past two weeks for anyone involved in politics. It is quite clear that the public are, quite rightly, angry about a scheme that, with hindsight, was poorly designed and badly administered.”
“I know that, for some individuals, the old habit of asking questions rather than trying to answer them, dies hard, but what we had was not an opposition-driven policy or an attempt to hold the Executive to account; it was a media-driven thing, and some of the opposition parties tried to jump on the bandwagon.”
“Again, I hear the leader of the Alliance Party chirping away in the background. I listened to her contribution, and she must have had 10 or 11 questions she wanted answered.”
“That is why some of the hyperbole that has been around today is hard to stomach. <BR /> <BR />What we heard from my colleague Joanne Bunting was a thoughtful and considered first contribution to the Assembly, and I think that it was one that shows that she will be a valuable asset to the Chamber.”
“They abandoned their seats, and they failed to discharge their duties or ask the questions that their voters might, quite rightly, want them to ask. The public care very little about procedures, points of order or Standing Orders.”
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“Whilst the scale of the claims is unlikely to be anywhere near as high as those for police officers, the Department needs to give consideration to the best approach to handling the claims, given the criticism that has been directed at the handling of the legal and medical costs for the police claims. <BR /> <BR />I turn now to the Vote on Account, which provides the initial funding for 2015-16. According to the Department of Justice, its aim, amongst other things, is to prevent crime and reduce the risk of reoffending. The Department has already faced substantial pressures in-year, resulting in a range of reductions in funding that have clearly affected the delivery of front-line services, not just by the PSNI, as I have already highlighted, but projects delivered by the voluntary and community sector to address offending behaviour.”
“<BR /> <BR />Given that the police budget receives the bulk of Justice funding, the Committee has emphasised the importance of ongoing scrutiny of all areas of its spend to identify further efficiencies and opportunities to avail itself of shared services. Whilst the PSNI has identified and implemented a wide range of efficiency measures and savings, the need for the Department and the Chief Constable to continue to work closely together is of particular importance in this climate of reducing budgets. The Committee will continue to keep an eye on this area of the budget. <BR /> <BR />One other pressure that has emerged recently relates to hearing-loss claims from prison officers.”
“They included a severe detrimental impact on police resilience and capacity, including a significant impact on community policing, combating serious crime, legacy investigations and police recruitment plans for police officers and staff. The additional funding from the Executive at the October monitoring round was welcome and provided some assistance to the Chief Constable when making difficult decisions on priorities to ensure that he lives within his budget for 2014-15. The extra £20 million provided in the final budget allocation specifically for the PSNI will also enable the Chief Constable to undertake a level of recruitment and to mitigate to some extent the impact on front-line services during 2015-16. Again, that is to be welcomed.”
“The Committee has asked for further details on that. It has not seen the detailed proposals, but when it does, it will obviously scrutinise them to make sure that the action will result in the immediate reductions that the Minister claims. Such a reduction in the cost of legal aid will, therefore, provide the time needed for the implementation of a longer-term reform, which, I think, everyone in the House believes is absolutely necessary. <BR /> <BR />Turing to the PSNI budget, which accounts for over 60% of the overall Justice budget — indeed, it is in the range of being seven times more than any other area of DOJ spending — the Chief Constable clearly outlined the impact that the in-year reductions in the budget would have.”
“<BR /> <BR />The cost of legal aid is unsustainable, given the reduction in budget that the Department is facing in 2015-16 and the impact that that will have on the provision of front-line services, which I will return to shortly. When he appeared at the Justice Committee meeting on 28 January this year, the Minister of Justice indicated that the key risk to the Department living within its budget next year is legal aid spending and said that radical action is clearly required. The Minister is proposing a range of further reforms, including a short-term exceptional measure to assist in managing the pressures on an in-year basis. That would involve a strictly controlled levy on bills to be paid, based on the amount required to live within the budget. The Assembly will take that decision annually.”
“As early as the June monitoring round, very large pressures were being highlighted as a result of the cost of legal aid, and the Department was looking for savings in other areas to enable it to allocate additional funding. Over the year, the Department allocated £35·5 million of additional funding to the legal aid budget, including £13·2 million of the £29 million additional funding that the Executive provided as part of the October monitoring round. That money could have been used — some would argue that it should have been used — to fund other areas, including policing pressures and other front-line pressures facing the Department during the latter part of the 2014-15 financial year. At the Committee meeting on 10 December 2014, departmental officials confirmed that all budget areas had taken cuts to fund the legal aid pressures.”
“Last week, I was at a Commonwealth Parliamentary Association conference to mark the 800th anniversary of the Magna Carta, a document that many Members will understand is rooted in the foundation of parliamentary democracy and, indeed, the rule of law. Article 39 of the Magna Carta talks about access to justice, and I think that we are all aware of the importance of access to justice and a good legal system. At the same time, we also have to be cognisant that the cost of legal aid in Northern Ireland is rising, is continuing to do so and is, indeed, spiralling out of control. <BR /> <BR />Given the cost of legal aid and its overall impact on the Justice budget, I will talk about it first.”
“I am pleased to be able to speak on behalf of the Committee for Justice, which has obviously regularly scrutinised through written and oral briefings the Department of Justice's budget, including the delivery of savings plans, as well as pressures and easements, which are identified in monitoring rounds. As everyone is now aware, it has been a particularly challenging time for the Department of Justice, given the in-year budget reductions arising from the October monitoring round and the ongoing pressures created in other parts of the Department, its agencies and non-departmental public bodies. <BR /> <BR />Primarily, the ongoing costs of legal aid are of particular concern.”
“I absolutely agree with the Member. I mentioned that one of the biggest areas in which our legislation is deficient is in having the ability to take assets off criminals. Particularly when it comes to drug dealing, fuel laundering and suchlike criminality, it is important that we have the powers in place to allow the authorities to seize the assets of those involved. The other area, of course, in which we need the NCA's expertise is with large-level crime, particularly cybercrime, to ensure that, in particular, our young people and children are safe. <BR /> <BR />My time is almost up. I hope that today the Assembly will signal its consent for the NCA to become fully operational in Northern Ireland and for ensuring that we have in place the legislation required to keep people here safe.”
“I appreciate the Member's intervention. He will know that there have been a number of negotiations on how we can get the NCA operating in Northern Ireland, and there are various areas in which the legislation will be implemented here slightly differently from the rest of the United Kingdom. It would be good to get to the point at which we get agreement in the House to have the NCA operational in Northern Ireland. I think that the PSNI is confident that it has the ability to work alongside the NCA in protecting the community here.”
“I urge Members to support the motion this afternoon and take the vital step to ensure that Northern Ireland does not become the easy option for criminal gangs and organised criminals. I commend —”
“There have also been clarifications around the fact that the NCA must secure PSNI agreement to an operation. Once this request has been made, the Police Service of Northern Ireland must carry out a community impact assessment that the NCA must have regard to. It is also proposed that the Department of Justice or the Home Secretary may, after consulting the ombudsman and director general, refer a matter to the ombudsman for investigation if it is in the public interest to do so. A similar power will be given to the DG to call in the ombudsman. These, of course, mirror the arrangements for the police in section 55 of the Police (Northern Ireland) Act 1998. <BR /> <BR />I believe that this highlights the accountability mechanisms called for by Members during previous debates on this issue, most notably back in October 2014.”
“That is effectively mirroring section 33A of the Police Act 2000. Section 59 of the same Act places a general duty on the Chief Constable to report to the board with certain exceptions. Section 60 enables the board, having considered a report, to instruct an inquiry into a matter because of its gravity or exceptional circumstance. <BR /> <BR />The proposal now is to include in statute words to the effect that:”
“The director general of the NCA has made a commitment to seek to make NCA officers operating in Northern Ireland bound by the code. The director general (DG) will also be required to attend the Policing Board and report on the delivery of his annual plan. The DG is on record as saying that there is an implied obligation to provide information and answer questions asked by the Policing Board and that the board itself would have a statutory responsibility to monitor the performance of the NCA in carrying out the annual plan as it relates to Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />It is now also proposed that it would be laid down in statute that the director general:”
“Most Members will be alive to the issues around accountability mechanisms and their importance for many Members. The National Crime Agency is, of course, a UK-wide body established by legislation at Westminster, but a number of assurances and clarifications have been arrived at, following intensive work between the devolved Department of Justice, the PSNI, the Home Office and some of the interested parties. In this regard, it was extremely useful that the Minister shared with the Justice Committee, on Wednesday past, a paper outlining his revised proposals for the parties in the Northern Ireland Assembly. <BR /> <BR />For example, in relation to the code of ethics, NCA officers do not have to just read and understand the PSNI code of ethics.”
“Over the past number of months, detailed work has been undertaken by the Department of Justice in Northern Ireland, the Home Office and Home Secretary, the NCA, the Northern Ireland Office and the PSNI. The PSNI again is on record as saying:”
“Since the NCA came into existence, there has been no capability in Northern Ireland for civil recovery of criminal assets. That is shameful and sends out the wrong message to criminals. Those involved in making money from illegal activity should know that they will be caught and that, when they are, they will lose everything that they have accumulated. <BR /> <BR />I doubt that anyone in the Chamber would wish to construct an argument that suggests that criminal gangs and organised criminals should not be brought to justice, but there are those who have raised particular areas of concern around accountability. Accountability is important. Indeed, it would be a very foolish legislature that would create a powerful body without having accountability mechanisms in place.”
“<BR /> <BR />One of the key arguments for the NCA is around the area of civil recovery, allowing the NCA to target the assets of local criminals.”
“For those who do not believe that this is an issue of great importance, I ask them to consider the assessment that up to 150 organised crime gangs are operating in Northern Ireland in drug dealing, fuel laundering, illegal dumping, cybercrime, child abuse and human trafficking. The PSNI needs support in tackling gangs across borders, and the House should give it the support that it requires. <BR /> <BR />The NCA are the UK's leading experts in combating cybercrime, child exploitation and large-level criminality. The PSNI needs to be able to tap into the resources of the NCA and, in return, the NCA can ease the burden on the PSNI by releasing officers to work on local crimes. This helps the police locally to cope with the current budgetary pressures and releases officers back into community policing.”
“In recent days, the NCA has had successes in catching criminals intent on smuggling huge sums of money out of the United Kingdom, arrested individuals involved in a £1·2 million counterfeit operation and brought action against a couple in Sussex involved in child cruelty cases. The fact that the NCA is not yet operational in Northern Ireland means that criminal gangs are potentially escaping justice and that Northern Ireland is not as well equipped to tackle serious organised crime as elsewhere in the United Kingdom. <BR /> <BR />I am sure that Members will have noted comments from the PSNI Chief Constable, who stated that there would be gaps in our law enforcement ability for as long as the absence of the National Crime Agency continued. The PSNI has said:”
“The issue of the National Crime Agency (NCA) and why it needs to come into operation in Northern Ireland is nothing new and has been debated in the Assembly before. However, given the fact that the Westminster term is coming to a close and there is a short window left for legislation to be passed, it is my estimation that this is probably the last opportunity for the House to signal its consent for the NCA to operate fully here in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />Established to fight serious and organised crime, the NCA works with local enforcement agencies in fighting what are often international and complex criminal networks that seek to operate within our borders.”
“<BR /> <BR />In conclusion, it is clear that the Department of Justice faces a difficult budgetary climate in 2015-16, and funding will have to be carefully managed to ensure that key priorities and targets continue to be delivered to the required standard and that front-line services are protected. I commend the Executive for providing an additional £20 million to the PSNI to assist in achieving that. <BR /> <BR />The Committee will wish to ensure that the budget allocations proposed by the Minister of Justice also support the key priorities and protect front-line services and, as I have already indicated, that short-term funding decisions will not be detrimental to other areas of the budget.”
“The Committee noted the assurance provided to the Assembly by the Minister during a debate late last year that the current prison officer vacancies would be filled. It will be interesting to see how that commitment will be delivered, given the proposed reduction to the Prison Service budget. During Question Time today, I raised my own concerns about the impact that a staff shortage at Maghaberry is having on prisoner safety and prison officer safety. That is an issue that we need clarity from the Minister on. No doubt, the Committee will want to explore those issues in further detail tomorrow.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Committee, in its response to the 2015-16 draft Budget, asked the Minister of Justice to reconsider the proposed budget for the Probation Board, given the potential adverse impact that had been outlined on its ability to deliver front-line services, including the very important work it undertakes on the monitoring of offenders, including sex offenders, who live within our community. The organisation has a relatively small budget and has had to deal with reductions in funding and a rising workload over the past number of years, which leaves very little scope to manoeuvre. <BR /> <BR />I am also aware of the pressures on the Prison Service and, in particular, the officers working on the front line in each of the prisons.”
“<BR /> <BR />Back on 12 January, I indicated that the Department had not yet provided detailed information on the proposed allocations for each spending area or the savings delivery plans in time to inform the consultation on the draft Budget, which was regrettable. The Committee received this information yesterday, together with the results of the consultation, and I note that a number of respondents also raised concerns regarding the lack of information available to assess the budget proposals.”
“I thank the Member for that intervention. He has been very vocal on those three specific issues at the Committee. He is absolutely right, and that is perhaps one of the best examples of how spending a small amount of money in one area can save money in another area of the budget. That is something that we will want to explore. The Minister, as the Member will know, will be in front of the Committee tomorrow to discuss the final 2015-16 Budget, and we will, no doubt, explore areas such as that with him to ensure that decisions that have been made will have the impact that is required and will not have a negative impact upon other areas of his budget.”
“Those include reductions in funding for drug arrest referral and harm reduction centres, funding for organisations such as NIACRO, which provide rehabilitation and resettlement programmes, and funding for the seven voluntary search and rescue services, which carry out vital work with regard to missing persons.”
“The allocation of available resources will require careful consideration to ensure that front-line services are maintained and decisions to cut funding in one area will not have a negative impact and increase resource requirements in another. <BR /> <BR />The Committee highlighted to the Minister before Christmas the need to ensure that funding decisions took into account the potential impact on other areas of the criminal justice system to avoid false economies being made. Some examples of funding reductions that are likely to have an adverse impact on the PSNI, the Courts and Tribunals Service and the Prison Service have come to the attention of the Committee.”
“I listened carefully to the Minister of Justice during Question Time this afternoon and he said he was going to bring forward such proposals. <BR /> <BR />The Department submitted 13 bids to the change fund totalling £6·2 million. I am pleased that the Northern Ireland Prison Service and the Probation Board received £772,000 for two projects linked to addressing re-offending. One related to under-achieving boys that will support young offenders to change their lives through education, and the other is an intensive resettlement and rehabilitation project. It is disappointing that none of the other projects was successful in attracting funding. <BR /> <BR />Taking account of the additional allocations, it is clear that the Department will still face substantial pressures in the next financial year.”
“The provision of an additional £20 million by the Executive, as announced by the Minister of Finance and Personnel on 19 January, specifically to address those pressures is, therefore, very welcome. In my view, it is also appropriate that the money will go to the PSNI and not be used by the Department to address other financial pressures such as legal aid, as has been the case. <BR /> <BR />While the legal aid pressures which we are very much aware of must be addressed; rather than diverting funding from other areas, it will require radical and innovative approaches. I look forward to considering the detail of the measures that the Minister has indicated he is developing as a matter of urgency to bring down the cost of legal aid within the available budget.”
“I am pleased to speak in the debate on behalf of the Committee for Justice. As I outlined in the take-note debate on 12 January, the Department of Justice is facing a range of funding pressures in 2015-16. Whilst the Budget is a somewhat cruel necessity, the Committee is concerned that a number of front-line services will not be protected. <BR /> <BR />One area of particular concern is the resilience challenges facing the PSNI and the Chief Constable's ability to recruit to ensure that he has the necessary number of officers available, and the funding needed to deliver front-line policing, including community policing, and to protect public safety.”
“I am sure that the Minister is grateful for the allocation from the Finance Minister to help work on that backlog. Can the Minister advise the House when the existing backlog will be finished or when he anticipates that he will be able to catch up on the backlog of some 20,000 lights? Is he introducing any new mechanisms into his Department to ensure that there is better budgeting of his resources to ensure that it does not happen again?”
“In recent weeks, I have met prison officers who are becomingly increasingly concerned about their safety and the arrangements in place at Maghaberry prison. Is the Justice Minister confident that the arrangements are adequate to avoid a major incident in the coming weeks and that prison officers are not under any threat because of them?”
“The Minister and the whole House will, obviously, be aware of the Gobbins path project in east Antrim, which is due to open later this year. How important does the Minister think that that project will be in attracting more overseas visitors to Northern Ireland?”
“The Minister has announced a £20 million allocation for the Department of Justice, to be used for policing budgets. Is that money to be specifically used for policing, and, if so, what pressures on the policing budget can be lifted because of it?”
“We require detailed information on the proposed allocations and the likely implications and impacts as a matter of urgency to enable the Committee to properly scrutinise and assess the budget proposals. The Committee has requested the attendance of the Minister of Justice to discuss the budget further and, in particular, will want to be assured that budget reductions in one area will not be a false economy and have a detrimental impact on and add additional cost to other areas of the criminal justice system. The Committee also expects the Department to be innovative and collaborative in its approach to the delivery of services and to explore all funding opportunities for front-line services, including European funding streams, assets-recovery funding and the change fund set up by the Executive.”
“There are also, of course, the ongoing issues with legal aid costs. That has been highlighted for a number of years now and will be a continued pressure as we move forward. It is an issue that the Committee is keen to address. There is also a 24% reduction in the capital baseline for next year, and so it is clear that prioritisation of capital projects will be essential moving forward. <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, it is clear that the Department of Justice faces a difficult budgetary climate in 2015-16 and that funding will have to be carefully managed to ensure that key priorities and targets continue to be delivered to the required standard.”
“The 20% reduction in DOJ core directorates will clearly have an impact on organisations such as NIACRO, and we have heard more recently in the media about the drugs rehabilitation facility at Railway Street in Ballymena. The Committee has expressed some concerns that the loss of such facilities will ultimately result in more pressure being placed on other areas of the DOJ budget, putting more pressure on the police, the courts and the Prison Service. <BR /> <BR />The Probation Board is also facing a significant reduction in its budget and is very concerned about the likely implication on its ability to undertake the appropriate level of monitoring and management of some of the most serious offenders, such as sex offenders and violent offenders, who live in the local community.”
“Protecting and prioritising funding for policing to any degree does, however, have a substantial impact on the rest of the Department and NDPBs, given that policing accounts for two thirds of the overall justice budget. It is therefore imperative that detailed and accurate information on the proposed budget is available to ensure that the best decisions are made regarding the allocation of scarce resources. <BR /> <BR />In addition, the Committee has expressed some concerns about other areas of the DOJ budget. The Committee has indicated that it finds it difficult to see how the Northern Ireland Prison Service budget can be protected given the budget pressures.”
“<BR /> <BR />Given the scale of the emerging pressures facing the Department, in-year and for 2015-16, the Committee is very concerned that front-line services may not be protected. Back in June, the previous Chair highlighted the major budget and resilience challenges that the PSNI is facing, particularly in relation to sustaining the number of warranted officers that it believes is necessary. Having discussed the budget pressures with the Chief Constable of the PSNI in October, the Committee is well aware of the potential impact that further reductions in the PSNI budget will have on the delivery of front-line policing, including community policing.”
“Therefore, it has been impossible for the Committee to undertake a proper assessment of whether the funding is actually being targeted at the priorities. Whilst officials have advised that reductions in staff numbers will be necessary, the Department has not yet provided the Committee with any information on the likely level of reduction in posts required or how many staff could leave as part of the voluntary redundancy scheme. It has, however, indicated that the majority of the Department’s budget goes to arm's-length bodies and is, therefore, staff-related. It is therefore clear that significant restructuring across the Department and related organisations is likely to be necessary. The Committee has urged the Department to clarify the position as soon as possible.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Committee was broadly content with the Minister’s stated priority areas, which include front-line policing, ensuring that the PSNI has adequate additional security funding and protecting other front-line areas across the Department, as far as possible, with the aim of protecting outcomes for the public. It agrees that funding should be targeted towards these priorities. The Committee also welcomes the assurance that it received from the Department that the budget allocations will support the Programme for Government commitments that fall to it to deliver. <BR /> <BR />However, as I have already indicated, the detailed information on the proposed allocations for each spending area and the proposed savings plans has not been provided.”
“It is also regrettable that the Department did not publish detailed spending allocations and savings plans for each area, agency and NDPB before the consultation closed on 29 December 2014, to enable key stakeholders and the public to properly assess the budget proposals and make meaningful contributions to the consultation. <BR /> <BR />At the meeting of 26 November 2014, departmental officials provided an overview of the 2015-16 draft Justice budget for resource and capital funding, outlined the Minister’s high-level priorities and provided an initial assessment in very broad terms of the likely implications of the budget reductions for the main spending areas.”
“As this is my first opportunity to speak in the capacity of Chair, I wish to acknowledge the work of my predecessor, Paul Givan, who was Chair for the past three years. During that time, of course, there was regular scrutiny of the Department of Justice budget and savings plans. More recently, the Committee has spent some time considering the 2015-16 draft budget proposals. <BR /> <BR />Unfortunately, as other Chairs have indicated, there is a lack of detailed information available from the Minister on the proposed allocations and likely implications. Therefore, it has been impossible for the Committee to properly examine and reach definitive conclusions on the Department of Justice draft budget at this time.”
“The response to terrorists, whether Islamic terrorists or those closer to home, is to keep living our lives and fight for the freedom that we cherish. The response has to be support for the police and for the intelligence services, even if that means that some difficult decisions have to be taken closer to home, and we have to get the National Crime Agency (NCA) operating here in Northern Ireland. We have to support the intelligence services, which will have targeted surveillance against suspected terrorists in order to keep us safe, but we must never forsake our freedom or our liberty, even when under attack.”
“That is the right response. We must stand up for freedom and freedom of speech, even if at times that freedom of speech offends or proves uncomfortable for us. It is the very basis of a free, democratic society.”
“<BR /> <BR />The response was clearly seen yesterday as three million people took part in unity marches across the world. The Je suis Charlie signs that were clearly seen across the world on social media and world leaders standing side by side to condemn the activities sends a strong message that people stand with the people of France to defend the French principles of liberty, equality and fraternity.”
“The world watched in absolute horror as three days of terror unfolded in Paris. It started with the brutal murder of 11 people working in a satirical magazine, then the murder of a policewoman on the streets of Paris and then four hostages being killed in a supermarket on Friday. Even today, there is fear across Paris, and Jewish schools are under armed guard this morning. <BR /> <BR />It was, plainly and simply, an attack on freedom by extremists who hate freedom, liberty and democracy. It was an attack on all the things that we should hold dear and cherish, such as freedom of speech, freedom of expression and individual liberty. Just as was the case in Northern Ireland, in Israel, Nigeria, New York or anywhere else in the world, there is no justification for terrorist activity or for those who would support such actions.”
“The Member has outlined the rule changes that have taken place over the last number of years, and I am sure that she would agree that we have a system where, if there has been a misuse or an allegation of a misuse of Assembly allowances, that can be investigated, first, by the independent Commissioner for Standards and, in more serious cases, perhaps by the Police Service of Northern Ireland. However, given the spotlight that is on Members' allowances, does she believe that it is now time for the Commission to give consideration to a new independent body, not only to determine allowances and salaries for Members but to administer allowances to Members? That body would sit outside the existing structures.”
“I also congratulate the work that Ken Nelson and his team do at LEDCOM. One of the Department's priorities is to encourage entrepreneurship and people to start their own business. Will the Minister advise the House on what specific support there is for those in our community who may consider starting their own business?”