William Humphrey
North Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I listened intently to all the contributions in the debate, and I have to say that there was a fair degree of hypocrisy in some of the things that I listened to.”
“On this Commonwealth Day, I commend the Minister, in her absence, for her programme. Earlier today, we planted a tree to mark Her Majesty's platinum jubilee close to Lord Craigavon's tomb. Are there plans for the jubilee celebrations across our education sector to be extended to uniformed organisations?”
“I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. I thank her for her candour to the House today in setting out clearly and very explicitly the dangers that this bad, and badly drafted, Bill will have for education in Northern Ireland and the ramifications for our young people.”
“Thank you very much. Only last night, I had a conversation with the chair of a board of governors. I have also met school teachers and principals. Quite frankly, I am rather perturbed by what the Member is saying.”
“I am grateful to the Member for giving way. He and other Members have made the point that the Bill will lead to discrimination. Does the Member agree that there is no such thing as positive discrimination?”
“The Member makes a very valid point. Earlier today, we debated the Climate Change (No. 2) Bill. A number of people who opposed the Minister's Bill made the point that it took so long — over two years — to get to today, yet they want to rush this Bill through. The same parties that made those points have accepted that this Bill is flawed.”
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“Minister, you may be aware that, last week, the Infrastructure Committee visited the Ards peninsula. Indeed, the Agriculture and Environment Minister joined us for that visit. We saw at first hand the coastal erosion that is taking place on various parts of the peninsula. I agree with what the Minister said about early intervention being better. It is also cheaper. Will the Minister commit, budgetary pressures taken into consideration, to working with groups like Eric Rainey's in Ards to deal with the issues that are affecting them and those communities where footpaths are being washed away, young children are being left exposed and old people with no lighting —”
“I thank the Minister for his answer so far. I am sure that, like me, the Minister welcomed the announcement in the autumn statement last week by Her Majesty's Chancellor of an extra £250 million for Northern Ireland. It is welcome news. I welcome the comments made by the Minister and his colleague the Finance Minister to the House last week. The Minister will know the importance of the interchange to business, travel and tourism and to Northern Ireland plc. Given that it will go ahead, will the Minister commit to working with constituents whom I represent in Tiger's Bay, New Lodge, North Queen Street and Sailortown to make sure that their community, which will obviously be affected by this, is not adversely affected?”
“I am grateful to the Member for giving way. She has moved on from Mr Attwood, but I want to say, to be fair, that he said that he wanted a review of arm's-length bodies. Does she agree with me that, had his party's amendment stated that, it might be in a better place and have got support across the Chamber? Would she also join me in calling on the SDLP, even at this late stage, to withdraw its amendment and vote for a motion that, clearly, the SDLP is in absolute agreement with?”
“I am grateful to the Member for giving way. The Member will remember that, in July of last year — I served as a member of the Committee for Culture, Arts and Leisure at the time — nine resignations took place from the Sport NI board for reasons that we still do not know. Those nine people, who had been selected from a pool of people skilled in the wide sporting field, were replaced by public and civil servants. Does the Member agree with me that we must never again allow a situation where a Minister can appoint nine public or civil servants to replace people who had the skills to bring to the table?”
“I am grateful to the Member for giving way. I want to make the House aware of a visit that I made last year to Cairn Lodge Amateur Boxing Club in my constituency, to which public servants from the Sport NI organisation had committed to give funding. Two weeks later, they withdrew that funding simply because of an affiliation issue of boxing in Northern Ireland. That sort of arbitrary behaviour by public servants is simply not acceptable. Does the Member agree?”
“I thank the Minister for his answers so far. I will return to the York Street interchange, if I may. I know that the Minister, as a Belfast representative like me, will have an interest in that. Given that the public inquiry has progressed, the proprietary work has started and procurement is well advanced, does he agree that work has essentially begun on what is a crucial infrastructure project for this city and region, connecting airports, ports and the two motorways in Belfast with the west of Northern Ireland?”
“I thank the Minister for the statement he has made. I very much welcome the review of non-domestic rates for businesses. A boost to local businesses, particularly small businesses, is vital. Has the Minister been in touch with and liaised with Belfast City Council, the chamber of commerce in Belfast and traders' associations, particularly around the two pilot schemes that he mentioned on small-business empowerment zones. I must say to the House that I am concerned that there is a zone in east Belfast, which runs from the foot of the Newtownards Road to the Holywood Arches, and one in west Belfast, which runs from Castle Street in the city centre the whole length of the Falls Road to the bottom of the Whiterock Road. That is hardly fair or equitable, and the outcomes cannot be compared.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I agree with the Member to an extent. The same thing happened at Springfield Primary School on the edge of north Belfast, between north and west Belfast. When I first got elected to Belfast City Council in 2005, there were 72 pupils: there are now over 176. However, does the Member also agree that, as well as providing a good school, it has to provide a good education and academically deliver for children? Is that not something that the Member needs to draw attention to in his speech as well?”
“I thank my colleague from Upper Bann for giving way. The Member is quite right. I represent North Belfast, and Edenbrooke Primary School in the greater Shankill is one of the schools that is fortunate enough to have a nurture unit. As a governor there, I have seen the difference that that has made to the young people. I have heard from the teachers, the parents and, in particular, the principal about the immense effect that has had on those young people. It also ripples out into the classroom and the community.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement to the House. I welcome his acceptance of the public inquiry's findings. The York Street interchange is absolutely vital in connecting Northern Ireland, the port of Belfast, the M2 and M3 with west Ulster and our airports. It is hugely important for business, particularly the haulage industry and tourism. Now that the case has been demonstrated, procurement is well advanced, negotiations with the EU are ongoing and assurances have been given by the Treasury in London, when will the Minister be in a position to come to the House and tell us that work will start on the York Street interchange?”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. Does she agree with me that people need to be careful with their language not just in the House but in the media and, indeed, in councils, where they put forward anti-Israel motions that have the knock-on effect of causing offence, annoyance and distress to Belfast's small but growing Jewish community? I have already invited the Chief Constable to join me on a visit to the synagogue. Will the Minister join me in meeting the Jewish community and the Jewish Council at the Belfast synagogue at her earliest convenience?”
“The Minister will be aware that the Committee for Infrastructure recently visited the Connswater greenway, and I very much praise what has been an excellent example of joined-up government through input from local government, regional government and outside funders. Does he agree with me that further collaboration between councils, in particular through rural tourism partnerships in which councils come together, is a way forward in providing the economies of scale that can allow schemes perhaps not on the same scale as but along the lines of the Connswater greenway to be developed across Ulster for the benefit of our constituents?”
“The Member has posed a number of questions that are absolutely valid. I mean this in all sincerity because, like him, I was a member of the Ulster Unionist Party in 1998 when the Belfast Agreement was agreed, and, like him, I voted against it in the party and in the country: all these years later, can the Member, when he is posing those questions, tell us his solutions? Why does he think that we still have this problem?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I listened intently to the SDLP Member for Fermanagh and South Tyrone and agreed with much of what he said. Sadly, he would not take an intervention. Would the Member agree with me that, given what the Member has said, it is all the more bizarre that, for a long time, the SDLP refused to support the introduction of the National Crime Agency to Northern Ireland to help the PSNI tackle crime in Northern Ireland?”
“The Member, like me, has the honour to represent the great city of Belfast, and he talks about the free flow of traffic. The difficulty in encouraging people to park their car and travel into Belfast city centre is the fact that there is a continual logjam of buses in the city centre, preventing a free flow of traffic and people from going into the city centre to shop and support the local economy. Does he agree with that?”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. If you go into Belfast — and I speak as a Belfast representative — then the number of shops that have closed is noticeable, particularly in the traditional shopping areas such as Donegall Place and Royal Avenue and so on. There has been a shift towards the new Victoria Centre. When you talk to the Chamber of Commerce and businesspeople, as we did a few weeks ago, and when you look at the shops that are empty, the traffic chaos, the buses that are unable to get round and the people who are unable to flow into the city to do their shopping, you can see that the city centre traders are really under pressure. In Northern Ireland, we do not have a level playing field as regards Belfast, Lisburn and Newry: those city centres are under real pressure.”
“I am grateful to the Member for giving way. Does he agree that the economies of Belfast, which is the economic driver for the region, Lisburn, which is an important and growing city, and Newry, which deals so much in cross-border trade, are vital? How does what he says apply in Bangor and Newtownards, where the first hour is free? Is he not arguing against himself?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. The point that I wanted to make to the Member for Strangford, who would not give way, is that, in the Member's constituency of North Down — in Bangor and Newtownards, for example — people can park for up to one hour free, as he outlined. Why is it, do you think, that that does not apply to people in some of the most deprived wards in Northern Ireland in the city of Belfast? Surely there is a clear imbalance. Does the Member agree?”
“I steered clear of setting out a figure to the House even though invited to do so by Mr McCann. We do not want to predetermine the outcome. In calling for a review, we want the Minister to have exactly that flexibility, but I think that a figure of £30, reduced to £15 if paid within the fortnight, would be sensible.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am thankful to the Minister for his intervention and am happy to provide some clarification. I made it clear that we wanted, as part of the review, the fine to be looked at. So, I do not see any contradiction between my position and that of the Minister, quite frankly.”
“I am grateful to the Member for giving way. I accept that, if it is paid within two weeks, the fine is £45, but I have had a number elderly people come to my office in a state of distress about these issues. Also, when you have a working-class family or a single-parent family who are under pressure, £45 is also a huge amount of money for them to find in the run-up to Christmas.”
“— and took great pleasure in proposing the motion.”
“I am not sure that the motion does have a predetermined outcome. We are asking the Minister to show some flexibility around the issues that I have set out. I very much welcome the tone of the debate so far —”
“There should be flexibility around timing, the amount of the fine and people not being able to park inside the box. We have all arrived to park in a space and found a car parked outside the box and into your space. We know how annoying and difficult it is when you cannot get a space anywhere else and are trying to navigate into a tight spot. There needs to be flexibility around those things.”
“We know the benefits that border towns such as Enniskillen, Newry and Londonderry have been receiving because of the exchange rate between the pound and the euro at this time. There was a piece on the news only last week about the benefits to the Newry economy in particular. Are we going to discourage those people who are travelling in their cars to our town and city centres by having this £90 parking fine? <BR /> <BR />There should be some flexibility for people who are a few minutes late, but, if people are significantly late and taking up a parking space that others could be using, yes, they should be fined. I would argue against myself if I did not make that point. However, £90 is just too much. For a working person with a young family, £90 is too much. We do not know the circumstances in which those people can be placed.”
“I thank the Member for that. If Members are honest, they will say that that is something that they have heard across the city. As Mr McCann said, I can speak only for this city and the city centre of Belfast. <BR /> <BR />The other thing that Members need to bear in mind is that, because we are a rural economy, many people travel to our town and city centres in cars from rural parts of Northern Ireland. I did a wee tour on Saturday morning and went over to Boucher. I saw that, in and around Boucher Crescent where there is free parking, the car parks were completely full and the roads into those car parks were completely full. The number of cars there from the Republic of Ireland was hugely noticeable.”
“Look at the city centres. Along with my colleague Mr Stalford, I met some Belfast city centre traders only a few weeks ago and heard about the pressures that they are under. Members from those parties on Belfast City Council that took the recent decision can explain the reasoning behind it, but the town and city centres that surround Belfast will be rubbing their hands at it. They are offsetting the costs of parking and allowing people freer access to their town or city centre to help boost their economy in the run-up to Christmas. I have seen stuff on Facebook recently where people who, for example, represent Lisburn are making the point, "Come to Lisburn, and you will get free parking". The decision by Belfast City Council seems to be wrong-faced, but, as I said, the parties who made it can explain the reasoning behind it.”
“However, those solutions were not solutions either because they gave people permits to park outside their own door and they could not be given certainty that they could park outside their own door. That is why the review is timely.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. The Member and I served on Belfast City Council at the same time, and he will know from his time there that small communities that abut the city centre, like Sandy Row, lower Falls, Brown Square and the Markets, are under pressure when people come seeking free parking there and not having to face any fee at all. Sometimes, people, many of whom live in settled communities like those and who are older members of the community, simply cannot get their car near their own door. Going back, there were a number of pressures that were recognised by the then Department for Regional Development when its Minister was Minister Murphy.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. Indeed, only last week, I witnessed a number of what the Member calls "redcoats" in South Belfast when I visited Sandy Row and saw the pressures there. It is the same in my constituency of North Belfast. I do think that we have to set guidelines, and those guidelines have to be adhered to. We do have to have laws that are implemented, and the House should be supporting those laws. We are calling for the Minister for Infrastructure to review the laws that are currently set out. <BR /> <BR />Given the other pressures that there are in our city and town centres from many aspects facing the business community, car parking is a key issue.”
“You only have to look at the arterial routes in the city centre of Belfast to know that those pressures are real. You see that through the number of shops that are closed. I do think that this Chamber needs to be much more responsive and listen to the views of traders.”
“Whilst there has been great progress with bus and rail transportation, particularly with Ulsterbus, we do not have the services that perhaps are needed to encourage people to come into our city and town centres. I should state clearly that I am speaking as a Member of the House and not as the Chair of the Infrastructure Committee, but, only a few weeks ago, we at the Committee listened to some arguments that were put forward by people who live in rural Fermanagh about the disconnectivity that there is of people who live in rural areas, even affecting getting in for a doctor's appointment never mind shopping or whatever in Enniskillen as the county town. <BR /> <BR />The pressures that our businesses currently face are pressures that are increasing.”
“I think that the fine needs to be reviewed, and I welcome the fact that the Minister is here in his place. Even if that fine is paid within a fortnight, it is still £45. Someone being made to pay £45 for being late to their car parking space is, frankly, far too much. <BR /> <BR />We need to strike a balance that is right between making sure that people want to come to our city and town centres to shop, spend money and generate wealth there and those who want to see greater usage of park-and-ride developments. I very much welcome that as a way forward. We have a number of park-and-ride facilities around the Belfast basin for bringing people into the city centre. As Members will know, we do have issues in that Northern Ireland has a largely rural population, with people tending to travel by car.”
“Having met traders across this city and, in particular, those in the city centre, I am concerned about car parking in the city centre. In particular, I am concerned about parking in car parks and about what my party and I see as punitive fines for members of the public who return late to their parking space. My mailbag has received considerable correspondence about the issue, as, I am sure, have those of Members across the Chamber. I think that the fine of £90, if someone is late, is too much.”
“Minister, what is the current position regarding commercial eel fishing in Lough Erne?”
“Despite the politicking of last week, does the Minister agree with me that the York Street interchange is vital to Northern Ireland, particularly in terms of industry and commerce? It connects three motorways, the George Best Belfast City Airport with the west, and the port of Belfast. Does the Minister agree with me that the York Street interchange remains a key priority for the Northern Ireland Executive?”
“I welcome the announcement of a £5 million community regeneration fund. It is not enough, but it is a good start. I also welcome the £15 million for roads structural maintenance. That is vital. The Minister will recognise the importance of Belfast as a tourism and transportation hub for Northern Ireland. It is Northern Ireland's economic driver.”
“I thank the Minister for his answers so far. What action is his Department taking to prepare an invest-to-save scheme for fraud and error, as set out in the Fresh Start Agreement?”
“I commend what the Minister said about the Connswater greenway. The Committee was there a couple of weeks ago. In terms of extending that sort of initiative, which is a great collaborative approach with government, the Big Lottery Fund and the city council, can we have similar facilities across the city? I know that they are expensive, but such an investment, even one not on that scale, would be hugely beneficial to our people across Belfast.”
“— that the work actually relates to east and west Belfast. Does he have a timescale for when it might be extended to north and south Belfast?”
“I thank the Minister for his answers so far. I welcome his reassurance to the House about the Belfast transportation hub. That is a welcome commitment. I also welcome the investment to date in the Belfast rapid transit system and the fact that work has started. The Minister will be aware —”
“Does the Minister agree that sometimes there is a difficulty with the Housing Executive's role and responsibility on regeneration? Therefore, does he agree, having visited the Building Successful Communities areas in north and west Belfast with me only a few weeks ago, that this is a really good pilot and a good example of how it can be rolled out across Northern Ireland. For example, in lower Oldpark, where 26 derelict houses have been brought back to life, confidence in the community has increased and the environment has massively improved. We have 10 houses being built on the front of the Oldpark Road and 15 affordable planned for Cliftonpark Avenue. This is an example of how the Executive can work when they are supported by the Department to work on the joined-up approach that the Minister talked about earlier in his speech?”
“I am grateful to the Member for giving way. For those who seek to have Northern Ireland and Scotland annexed from the agreement, when the United Kingdom voted as one to leave the European Union, how do you believe that the Spanish Prime Minister might react if the Basque region or the Catalonian region wanted to leave the European Union? How would Europe react to that?”
“Yes. I pay tribute to the Agreed Agenda group, where the parties meet, for the action zone that has been established, which has made a great difference. That sort of joined-up governance really is the key and solution, in my view, to dealing with the problems in West Belfast and North Belfast.”
“I pay tribute to the work that has been done. I pay tribute —”
“<BR /> <BR />I have to say that, as we go forward, many of the challenges that face North Belfast and West Belfast, which are the same challenges right across the constituencies, which are divided by the Shankill Road, are faced by those young people. When I speak to principals and those in leadership, such as the Council for Catholic Maintained Schools (CCMS), and see the work that is going on in schools in North Belfast, I am encouraged to see general improvement. I commend the Department for its work in the area, but, in particular, I commend teachers. Teachers are often criticised. As I said, I am a governor of two schools. Governors are hugely indebted to the hard work of dedicated teachers. When a school is led by a very good and dedicated principal who is determined to turn a school round, that makes a difference.”
“I have to say that the advances that have been made there, the uplift in educational achievement and the confidence and competence of those young people were absolutely amazing. I also attended the Girls' Model presentations and was delighted to see such great forward movement there. The leadership of Alan Logan and Emlyn Wright respectively in those two schools has to be commended. Unfortunately, I was invited but was unable to go to Hazelwood Integrated College a few weeks ago because of a public meeting that I had organised in my constituency, but I know that you, Minister, attended and were greatly impressed.”
“The school had 74 pupils, it was failing, and educational achievement was not great. Last year, I had the honour of opening an extension to the school, which now has 176 pupils. That school is doing tremendous work with young people who are progressing to secondary education, many of them to grammar schools. That is good news. Of course, that is all in the primary sector. <BR /> <BR />I also want to talk about the secondary sector. In recent times, only a few weeks ago, I was invited to go back to my old school, the Boys' Model, for its presentation day, and I was amazed at the standards and the improvements that there have been. There were five days of presentations, and I was able to attend only one: the senior school presentations.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Minister will know that there could be three new primary schools in the greater Shankill: one in the upper part, which would involve Springhill Primary School and Black Mountain Primary School; one in the lower part that could involve Edenbrooke Primary School and Malvern Primary School; and the new Glenwood Primary School. I very much welcome the development and the funding that has been provided. Construction at the school comes to a conclusion with the new Edenderry Nursery School at Lanark Way, which is the first phase of the new Glenwood Primary School. I look forward to the Minister making an early decision on funding for Glenwood and a new school there. <BR /> <BR />I want to look at Springfield Primary School as an example. I attended a meeting in Springfield in 2005 when I was a councillor for Court.”
“All those are linked to the socio-economic difficulties that prevail: paramilitarism, deprivation and social exclusion. <BR /> <BR />I think that, as other Members have said, the key is early intervention not just in education but in all aspects of government. I welcome the joined-up approach in the Shankill. Local representatives have joined together with the Agreed Agenda group, with Jackie Redpath, the chief executive of the Greater Shankill Partnership, taking the lead on that along with Nicola Verner. Until recently, the partnership was led by Thomas Scott. Leadership has been given by the partnership board and Integrated Services, again led by Nicola Verner.”