Judith Cochrane
East Belfast · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“<BR /> <BR />If I may, Mr Speaker, I want to mention one other thing that gave me some added focus as the Bill progressed. Many of you will know that, just as I was launching my consultation, I got the news that Dad was seriously ill.”
“They had a very heavy workload but made sure that they made the time to engage with me and to complete the report. I formally presented to the Committee three times, once after no sleep and wearing the same clothes as the previous day after pulling an all-nighter here, but these things happen when you give yourself tight timescales and ar…”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. I thank all the Members for their engagement tonight. If they could all write me a job reference, that would be really helpful. If all that is true, I should be very employable. I also thank everybody else who has engaged with me during the stages of my Licensing Bill.”
“I might even manage to deliver on the goal of having a clean, tidy house, although I cannot imagine that Jonny will let me take over the role of cooking again just yet.”
“I would like to express my condolences to the family, friends and colleagues of the prison officer who, we heard, tragically died today. As we complete this Assembly term, it is clear that there is still so much to be done to stamp out dissident republicanism.”
“I thank the Member for his question. The Member will be aware that, in the recently completed roof project, the Assembly Commission took the opportunity to refurbish or replace all of the existing roof-mounted mechanical and electrical services and, where appropriate, to incorporate renewable technologies in the scheme, specifically photo…”
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“Notwithstanding the fact that we have already lost millions of pounds in penalties due to the impasse, there will no doubt be a number of issues raised about what more can be done to support our most vulnerable and the money that is required to do that — things like funding an independent advice sector for those seeking to claim benefits, or the need for resources for skills development for those who are trying to move into work. We cannot fund things like that until we take the tough decisions needed for radical reform. That includes things like revenue raising and tackling the costs of division, for example, in our teacher training, an area where, when proposals are made to reform, the bigger parties retreat into their trenches and seek to continue segregation.”
“The numerous reports that have already shown where there is significant scope for reform in the health sector now need to be driven forward through investing in rationalising the way services are provided and in further prevention measures. Reforms to the estate are also required, but there needs to be serious political commitment to do that. We cannot expect people to come forward with ideas for savings and then respond with political outrage because it has happened on our doorstep. <BR /> <BR />Tomorrow we will also debate welfare reform.”
“As I said before, Alliance would not have given the degree of protection to the Department of Education, although we do support investing more resources directly into schools, but we think that that can be achieved by better use of the Department's budget in the first place. More money is already spent on education in Northern Ireland than in neighbouring jurisdictions, but less money is invested directly in the pupils. Part of that is due to the divided system that we have, as well as the administration. <BR /> <BR />The focus for the Department of Health also needs to be on reform, not just simply using resources to cover over gaps here and there in a sticking-plaster approach.”
“Of course, we want the anticipated benefits of devolved corporation tax, but our Budget prioritises health and education at the expense of the economy. How we are going to be able to fund the change in corporation tax if we do not reform the most glaringly obvious area remains to be seen. <BR /> <BR />There is still no real challenge towards reforming inefficiencies in the areas of health and education. We know that those areas are inefficient, even just through high-level benchmarking of costs compared to other jurisdictions, yet the large degree of protection that they have been given creates less incentive for reform.”
“<BR /> <BR />Today's Supply resolution and Vote on Account motions authorise the use of that money by the various Northern Ireland Departments and public bodies. They do not, however, lay any groundwork for the radical reform that is required to deliver better outcomes for everyone in Northern Ireland. I ask the Minister how the proposed spending in front of us today will begin the process of making our public finances any more sustainable. We know that the forthcoming Budget for 2016-2020 is likely to see an even smaller block grant in the UK as the Government continue to cut public spending. At the same time, we have the potential added pressure of locally funding a lower level of corporation tax.”
“Whether or not you agree with the Equality Commission taking that case, it does have an important role here in Northern Ireland, and to seek to punish it because you do not agree with it could undermine its important work on equality issues. Of course, there are other court cases that are taken with public funding, such as on the gay blood ban, and there is no suggestion from Mr Allister that funding should be removed from the Department of Health for that. Ultimately the courts will decide if they got it wrong, and lessons will hopefully be learned on all sides of each argument. Of course, Mr Speaker, as you said, today is not the day to debate that, nor the electioneering clause — sorry, the conscience clause — so I will move on.”
“I should like to start by saying that Alliance opposed the 2015-16 Budget at the relevant time, both at the Executive and here in the Assembly, as we do not believe that it is sufficiently strategic. However, the Budget has now been agreed by a majority and we do not believe that we should seek to undermine it at this stage. <BR /> <BR />Alliance will, however, oppose Mr Allister's amendment to remove money allocated to the Equality Commission. It is clear from his comments that he tabled that not to talk about the Budget but simply as an opportunity to give his twopence worth about the fact that they have taken a case against Ashers bakery.”
“Mr Weir said that there is a contractual issue with private hire, but that had to be put in place because you cannot hail taxis on the road. When coming out of the ground, there are not a lot of taxis coming along that are able to pick you up. You have to phone and book them to an address. So, Ulster Rugby books taxis to the ground in order for them to be able to pick people up. It definitely would be a solution because it would not have to be just one company.”
“Does the Member agree that, at these large-scale events, we have a consistent problem with the number of people who park near the venue? I am thinking particularly of Ulster Rugby. People tell me that they end up driving over because it is so difficult to get a taxi when they come out. Surely, if we had single-tier licensing, that would enable us to get large crowds away from events quickly afterwards. That would be a very progressive and welcome move, especially for residents of, in this example, the Cregagh estate.”
“This Budget must therefore lay the groundwork for much more radical reform, which will deliver better outcomes for all in Northern Ireland. The Executive still have the opportunity to make further improvements, and I hope that they will take the opportunity to do so.”
“The Alliance Party is once again calling for that independent audit to be a formal Executive commitment in the 2015-16 Budget. The Finance Minister suggested last week that he would be out on the doorsteps telling people about the Alliance Party's revenue-raising ideas. Perhaps he can also take the opportunity to remind the people of Northern Ireland of his party's revenue-wasting approach: taxpayers' money continually wasted by sustaining a divided society. <BR /> <BR />Of course, I know that a one-year Budget will not be the place where all those problems are solved. However, in setting the Budget, we must also consider the 2016-2020 Budget, which could see an even smaller block grant, as well as the potential added pressure of funding a lower level of corporation tax.”
“The Stormont House Agreement also states:”
“<BR /> <BR />I know that the Finance Minister has said that he is proud that we continue to have the lowest household taxes in the UK, but would he not be more proud if our public services were so efficiently run that we did not have to cut services to keep the taxes low? A sensible approach would be to offset some of the current cuts with a small proportion of revenue raising, but fair revenue-raising structures must go hand in hand with other reforms. That is a major challenge, but it is one that the people of Northern Ireland expect our Executive to deliver on.”
“No. I have quite a lot to get through, thanks. <BR /> <BR />Of course, that is wrong, as, in the long term, we would like to see free public transport for schoolchildren also. The additional health and social benefits of that could provide savings in other areas, but such a policy can be taken forward only when we get our finances in better order. <BR /> <BR />We would also propose a modest increase in the regional rate. A 1% rise would raise about £5 million, and the removal of rate capping, with new measures to support the asset-rich and income-poor, such as pensioners, could raise another £5 million. Those are all things that could have been taken forward in the incoming financial year.”
“Alliance would also include a commitment to remove certain inappropriate populist subsidies. I make no apology for being honest with the public about these things. Free prescriptions for those who can afford to pay and free bus passes for those who have not yet retired are simply not sustainable. Only by considering those options can we, as a devolved Administration, show that we are taking some real responsibility in managing the budgetary challenges. Of course, when I raised that with the Finance Minister last week, he did his best to twist my words and suggested that we wanted to take away bus passes completely, which is, of course —”
“We would, therefore, rebalance resources between the Department of Education and the Department for Employment and Learning, giving DEL more money in recognition of the importance of the skills agenda. As things stand, the Budget has DEL, which is already an efficient Department, making greater cuts than the Department of Education. DEL could end up cutting higher and further education places at the same time as DE presides over 70,000 empty school places. There are no empty places in higher and further education. <BR /> <BR />Alliance would also abolish the social investment fund, which needlessly duplicates what other Departments can already do. Alliance would halt the relocation of the DARD headquarters to Ballykelly. At a time of limited public resources, the cost of that project needs to be redirected to front-line services.”
“It says nothing about tackling the cost of division, nothing about making savings through North/South shared service delivery and nothing about support for reforms to legal aid that will ultimately be necessary to make the Budget balance. It is a Budget that will leave us in exactly the same position this time next year. That is hardly moving Northern Ireland forward. <BR /> <BR />Given that it is not a perfect budget, what specifically would Alliance do differently? First, the economy is supposedly the top priority in the Programme for Government, so more consideration needs to be given to the wider economic impact of specific departmental reductions. For example, we know the importance of the availability of third-level talent for attracting FDI and building our economy.”
“Before it is suggested that I do not want money to be spent in those areas, let me be clear about this: I want our health and education systems to be funded in a way that ensures the best service for patients and pupils, where every pound is used to deliver the best outcomes, not where a proportion of every pound is wasted. <BR /> <BR />In his opening remarks, the Minister said that the Budget would lead to reforms, but there is nothing in the proposals that will ensure that DHSSPS properly pursues its efficiency agenda. Health reforms need to be driven forward through investing in the way that services are provided and in further prevention measures, not by using resources to simply plug gaps here and there. The Budget also does nothing to ensure that education protections are directed into schools and away from administration.”
“<BR /> <BR />Alliance believes that, in drawing up the Budget, there should have been a fundamental reassessment of the needs of each service and that money should have been allocated to the Departments on that basis. Before anyone suggests that there was no time to do that, let me say that of course there was. The Finance Minister has been warning for some time about the need to do more with less, yet we have not been planning how best to do that. <BR /> <BR />We know that there are inefficiencies in our health and education provision. High-level benchmarking of costs and spending profiles compared with other jurisdictions highlights that, yet the Budget does not challenge those inefficiencies. Rather, the large degree of protection for those budgets creates less incentive for reform.”
“The Budget before us for approval is not the balanced Budget that the Stormont House Agreement called for. Yes, it is balanced in the sense that it allocates money across Departments within the available resources, but it does little to make public finances more sustainable. It is not a balanced approach to budgeting for the future. The Alliance Ministers opposed the Budget at the Executive, but, unlike other parties that voiced their opposition, our reasons go much wider than the direct impact on Departments that our Ministers run. We believe that Northern Ireland deserves a more strategic, more innovative and more radical approach.”
“The Minister will be aware that I recently conducted a survey of all the GPs in Northern Ireland, and I will come forward with some of their proposals. Given that 90% of health service contacts take place in a GP setting, yet GPs only receive approximately 8% of the budget, does he think that amending that could have an impact on those who may want to pursue a career as a GP?”
“The Budget is balanced on a 100% cuts basis, and most other governments would never consider that approach. Indeed, the OECD recommends a 70:30 split between spending cuts and revenue raising. Does the Minister agree with the OECD recommendations and also with me that the current approach is unsustainable and that the Executive needs to consider fair and progressive revenue raising so as to prevent deeper cuts to our public services, which ultimately will affect our most vulnerable?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does he agree that, as well as the uncertainty over the budgets for the classrooms themselves, there is the additional uncertainty over capital funding for schools such as Strandtown in my constituency, which has just got its planning permission through and now has no idea as to when it may be able to put bricks on the ground?”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. Given the constraints, what proactive measures has her Department taken to assist the visual arts organisations with developing resilient business models so that they can demonstrate civic value and ensure future sustainability?”
“— that delivers the best we can for the people of Northern Ireland.”
“Alliance is supportive of that approach; however, we are clear that we cannot ask people to contribute additional revenue to the Executive if it is being allocated to public services that are not operating efficiently, or if it is simply being used to sustain a divided society. Fair revenue-raising structures must go hand in hand with other reforms. It is a major challenge, but one that the people of Northern Ireland expect our Executive to deliver on. <BR /> <BR />Northern Ireland is not the only region that is being adversely affected, and the bottom line is that we need to up our game in agreeing a balanced Budget —”
“<BR /> <BR />Finally, one other area that the Committee report highlighted was that the pressure on public finances will increase in coming years and that fiscal contractions are often best addressed with a ratio of spending cuts and revenue raising. The Committee report recommends that the Executive should publish a consultation paper on the options across all Departments for raising additional revenue, which would set out all the benefits, risks and impacts on the economy, consumers and the most vulnerable. Only then can an informed debate take place and only then can we, as a devolved Administration, start to take some real responsibility for managing the budgetary challenges.”
“While those savings may not be able to be realised within a very short one-year time frame, it is nevertheless important that efforts are made to quantify such distortions and plans to release such savings for reinvestment in improving public services are taken forward. There was a commitment in that regard in the T:BUC document, and the recent Stormont House Agreement reinforced that. Therefore, Alliance calls for that independent audit to be a formal Executive commitment in the 2015-16 Budget. As I said, we know that a one-year Budget will not allow all those problems to be solved, but the fiscal challenge that we face demonstrates the need to overhaul public services in Northern Ireland entirely. This Budget needs to lay the groundwork for doing so and ensure that our resources are not continually wasted on maintaining divisions.”
“Figures over previous years have shown that the public-sector pay bill has continued to increase over and above inflation, despite the so-called pay freeze. Therefore, incremental rises for no extra work output are unfortunately no longer sustainable. All Departments need to be benchmarking and market testing, not to outsource services, but rather so that all services are examined to ensure that they are being delivered in the most cost-effective manner. If the current system can absorb £30 million of sick pay in one year without a noticeable reduction in output, efficiencies can clearly be made. <BR /> <BR />I am sure that nobody will be surprised if I raise the issues of the costs associated with providing public services within a divided society.”
“Reforms to the estate are also required, but there needs to be serious political commitment to that. We cannot expect managers in trusts to make savings and then respond with political outrage because we have not looked at the bigger picture. I asked OFMDFM whether it would consider reallocating the resources associated with the junior ministerial posts in that Department to posts in the Health Department to allow a much greater focus to be given to that important task, but the idea was rejected. <BR /> <BR />The challenge of reform is, of course, not limited to the Health Department, and it is very clear that the deteriorating resource DEL position will necessitate proactive measures across all Departments to find efficiencies.”
“However, when we went to the review appointment last week, it turned out that the consultant paediatrician had no records of the scans or the previous appointment, and she spent the time negotiating a very slow computer system to try to make some sense of what she was meant to see my daughter about. The final outcome was a quick blood pressure check. In other words, valuable consultant time is being lost in an ineffective system. That is not the fault of the staff, but it is a classic example of where operational and technological improvements can and should be made. <BR /> <BR />We do not need to start from scratch, as much work has been done to highlight where there is significant scope for reform in the health sector, but we now need to drive those things forward.”
“<BR /> <BR />There is little transparency of what is being protected and little scrutiny of what are deemed as inescapable pressures. We have all heard the A&E and waiting list stories, but money alone will not resolve those problems when there are underlying issues. For example, my daughter was on a waiting list to see a consultant paediatrician. I received an appointment letter to take her to a private clinic for a scan and to another private clinic to see a consultant. That was part of the measures that were being used to reduce waiting lists and, as a service user, it was welcomed.”
“<BR /> <BR />Other decisions that need to be questioned are, for example, DARD's proposed departmental move to Ballykelly. At a time of limited public resources, the costs of that project should surely be redirected to front-line services. The Finance Committee's report also highlights the need for greater transparency so that the Assembly can determine whether a consistent approach is being taken across Departments in prioritising service delivery. <BR /> <BR />Although there has been no blanket protection for any Department, it has been recognised that the health service is facing significant pressures. However, we need to be careful that we do not simply continue to allocate resources to that sector without it properly pursuing its efficiency agenda, too.”
“There should also be an assessment of the relative importance of what have been termed inescapable pressures versus the impact of the cuts elsewhere to meet them. <BR /> <BR />The Committee's report underlines the importance of allocations based on need by recommending that DFP gives more consideration to setting out the wider economic impact of the specific departmental reductions, and that is particularly relevant to the proposed cuts to the Department for Employment and Learning's budget. In the Programme for Government, we have a priority to grow a sustainable economy and invest in the future and we know the importance of the availability of third-level talent for attracting FDI and building our economy, yet the draft Budget puts at risk the provision of some local university and further and higher education and training places.”
“I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate today as a member of the Finance and Personnel Committee and to highlight some key points on behalf of the Alliance Party. <BR /> <BR />In the absence of a formal Programme for Government to cover the 2015-16 financial year, the draft Budget was predicated on a carry-forward of the five key Programme for Government priorities. That would not seem such a bad approach if the previous allocations had proved to be a perfect fit. Alliance believes, however, that continuing to allocate funding as per 2011 is not the most sustainable or reasonable approach and that instead there should be a fundamental reassessment of the need for each service, with money allocated to the Departments on that basis.”
“I thank the Member for his question. As I have stated, while I am not keen to comment on parts of the programme in relation to individual Members, the Commission will review all aspects of it in a measured way. If it feels that there are issues of factual inaccuracy that require clarification with the BBC, the Commission will consider whether to do that and in what manner.”
“I am not entirely clear about the relationship he made between that investigation and what we are talking about here. The Commission will review all aspects of the allegations that have been made. If it transpires that there are matters that have to go to the PSNI, HMRC, the Charities Commission or whoever, that will be the case. I cannot speak for those bodies to say exactly how long it will take for them to finish their investigation.”
“The employment of individual staff from OCE is a matter for individual Members. Members often work in different ways. Some people focus more on constituency and casework issues as opposed to research, so different Members will have different requirements. Speaking in a personal capacity, my hiring of staff is done in an open and transparent manner as well. It is certainly something that the Commission will discuss, as will whether there are best practice guidelines that can be put in place.”
“I thank the Member for his question. There are clear rules in place and the Commission takes the view that the regime is clear. They are set out in paragraph 9 sub-paragraphs (11) to (14) of the IFRP determination. A Member cannot claim for the cost of office rentals if the office is leased from a family member or from a person with whom the Member has a connection under certain sections of the Companies Act 2006, or a person from whom the Member, or his or her family members, derives a financial benefit. The Commission may ask the panel to consider whether further measures need to be adopted to ensure a more open and transparent approach is available to landlords of constituency offices. The IFRP rule on the maximum amount a Member can reclaim for office rent is also set out in the IFRP determination.”
“I thank the Member for his points. I am not going to comment on the BBC at the moment. Some Members have stated that wrong claims were made against them. The Commission will certainly assess the entirety of those claims. If it is clear that some of them were not factual in nature, I imagine that the Commission will want to raise that with the BBC.”
“The current system allows assurance of all expenses undergoing a review. At the moment, all original invoices etc have to be put in place along with an assessment of their admissibility. I said in my answers to two other Members that, yes, the Commission will meet after this meeting. I understand that we already have a number of items in a paper to consider a way forward. Yes, perhaps one way to do that would be to strengthen the role of the current panel.”
“At the end of the day, we as Commission members form part of a corporate body. Therefore, we are there not to act on behalf of our parties but in the best interests. All of what we want to look at will be to ensure the full openness and transparency of all Members' claims.”
“As I said, the Commission will look into the issues in more detail that were raised. If there are any substantive issues that have not been resolved or are not in the process of being resolved, an independent investigation may be the way forward. That is something that the Commission will discuss. It may be by means of new powers being given to the IFRP or a completely separate body being set up to look at this.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I stated some of the measures that have been put in place to restrict the employment of family members to one per Member, although those who were already in post obviously were not sacked as a result of that determination. This is something that the Commission can look at going forward as a means to tighten up the issue.”
“I thank the Member for his question. As I outlined, the Commission has requested a paper to be brought forward with some options. We will meet again straight after this meeting to review the content of the broadcasts. We will assess whether there were any substantive issues that have not already been resolved through the current process and whether further improvements could be made to the current administration of Members' claims in the existing Independent Financial Review Panel (IFRP) determination. We will consider the various models that are available for an overall system to see whether that needs to be changed or alternatively identify any other issues that we might want the IFRP to consider as part of its next determination.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I understand that he has already written to the Assembly's accounting officer to address a couple of those matters. Assembly officials met with the PSNI, back in 2009, regarding a complaint that had been made. At that meeting, they advised the PSNI that no evidence of activities of a criminal nature had been brought to their attention, nor had any evidence of criminality been identified through the annual programme of audits that is carried out by the Assembly. <BR /> <BR />Of course, if there is any issue that the PSNI comes forward with, the Commission will review all aspects of the allegations and will indeed liaise with, and give whatever assistance it can to, the PSNI.”
“<BR /> <BR />A number of the issues raised in the programme have already been addressed through the measures that I have outlined, and, in addition, the Assembly's accounting officer had referred two matters to the PSNI in advance of the broadcast of the programmes. Furthermore, the Commission has already met to consider some of the issues that were raised and has tasked officials with bringing a paper of options to consider models for administering expenses. The Commission is due to meet again at the conclusion of this item of plenary business. <BR /> <BR />The Assembly Commission's commitment to good governance and the prudent use of public money is steadfast, and appropriate action will be taken to address any substantive issues. The Commission will seek to continually strengthen and improve its systems and processes.”
“Those measures include the full publication of Members' expenses for office cost expenditure (OCE) claims going back to 2003-04, which is essentially for the past 10 years; placing restrictions on the employment of family members; introducing a requirement for evaluation to be carried out by independent valuers of all constituency offices, unlike other parliamentary institutions where a valuation is only required in certain circumstances; bringing forward legislation to establish the independent financial review panel to determine the level of expenditure that can be claimed to reimburse Members for costs incurred in carrying out their Assembly duties; and an annual audit, undertaken to the highest professional auditing standards, in line with the public-sector internal audit standards, to cover the expenditure claims made by a random selection of 25% of all Members, in addition to the audit of the Commission's expenditure by the Comptroller and Auditor General every year.”
“I thank the Member for his question. <BR /> <BR />The Assembly Commission takes its responsibilities for the proper management of public funds seriously. Since the restoration of the Assembly in 2007, the Commission has introduced a wide range of measures to improve the framework of financial support for Members and to be transparent about the use of public funds.”
“Has the Minister assessed whether there are any gender differences in the uptake of the current flexible working practices and, if so, are those a barrier to women progressing in the Civil Service?”