Colum Eastwood
Foyle · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. Given the fact that the Good Friday Agreement envisages an Assembly, a power-sharing Executive, North/South Ministerial Council and other bodies, is it the case, today, that, if we do not have the nominating officer here from Sinn Féin, no Executive will be formed?”
“Mr Allister has made my point for me. The Good Friday Agreement is absolutely 100% clear. The power-sharing Executive, the Northern Ireland Assembly, the North-South Ministerial Council: at any point over the last 1,000-plus days, those institutions could have been restored. People on these Benches have tried hard.”
“That is why we are here today. We will gladly take part in those institutions but we will not be party to a stunt that is using and abusing people's emotions and sensitivities over a very difficult issue, which could have been dealt with at any point over the last 1,000 days.”
“<BR /> <BR />Is it the case, Mr Speaker, that without Members here present to my right or who should be to my right that there will not be an Executive formed today? If that is the case, we will be in no position to support a Speaker and allow for the undermining of the Good Friday Agreement through a unionist-dominated shadow Assembly.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is, of course, true that because of the DUP's despicable and disgraceful behaviour, not just around RHI, we have got to this point. It is also true that they were let do all those things. They were allowed to do all those things.”
“We put the papers in on all manner of subjects, topics and areas, but nobody wanted to negotiate back. Nobody wanted to talk to us about how we can invest in the Irish language, protect equality for LGBT people and tackle poverty and discrimination right across our society.”
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“It would end up with there being a referendum on Britain's involvement in the European Union. Does anybody in the House think that a British exit from the European Union would be good for Britain or here? When we are sitting with a land border with another jurisdiction that is part of the European Union, I cannot understand how that would be a positive thing for the North of Ireland. In fact, look at the direct funding that came from the EU between 2007 and 2013. It was £1·3 billion in single farm payments; £330 million through the Northern Ireland rural development fund; £18 million through the European Fisheries Fund; £180 million through Peace III; over £300 million through the European regional development fund; £165 million through the European social fund element; and £77 million through INTERREG IV.”
“We want a deal that ensures expanded university provision and expanded infrastructure investment right across the North, so that places like Derry can begin to properly contribute to the economy of the North, therefore reducing the welfare bill and leading to all the positive things that flow from that. We would also like to see a city deal for Derry — my colleagues from other cities will allow me this indulgence — that will allow us to ring-fence funding and borrowing powers for people in Derry and to implement all those things that we would like to see happen. <BR /> <BR />I have another major worry about this election. One of the potential Governments that are talked about is one made up of the Conservative Party, UKIP and potentially the DUP. What would that end up with?”
“What we need to look for from the negotiations that, I think, will be inevitable after the Westminster election is a proper, better and fairer deal for the North. <BR /> <BR />What should the Barnett consequentials of the HS2 project look like if we get them? Based on DFP's figures, it should be £1·3 billion for the North of Ireland. Imagine the infrastructure development that we could put in place with £1·3 billion. People talk about welfare all the time. We need to tackle welfare dependency, and the best way to do that is to put people into work. The way that you put people into work is by investing in infrastructure and skills.”
“Equally, I ask Sinn Féin to review its policy of abstentionism, because, if it is able to sit in here and Dáil Éireann, how does that not apply to Westminster? I understand that people can be abstentionist if they want, but I do not think that there is a consistent message in sitting in here while there is still no united Ireland. I do not understand. If there is a place that people need to be represented in, people need to go and do that representing. We need to join with the other progressive forces across these islands in trying to prevent another Tory Government and trying to support a Labour Government that will do the right thing because we make sure that they do the right thing.”
“I think that the potential Tory Government or Tory/UKIP Government, with, maybe, the DUP as well, are determined to reduce even further the welfare provisions for the most vulnerable; they are determined to reduce even further the pay and conditions for our public sector; and they are determined to reduce the size of government. We all know what kind of an impact that will have here and on people in constituencies like my own that suffer unemployment issues and suffer as a result of bad government and bad politics. We are determined to make our voice heard; I encourage other people to do the same. <BR /> <BR />I ask the DUP to make it clear that, if it is within its gift, it will not allow a Tory Government to do what they have been doing, multiplying the impact on the people here.”
“When we are offered the opportunity of an election in Westminster, whatever some of us might think about the fact that we, unfortunately, still have to go to there to represent our people, I think it is incumbent on all of us to take up that opportunity to put the case and get the best possible deal for people here. <BR /> <BR />The Tory Party has said that its very first act would be to reduce the benefit cap. If that is going to be its first act, I worry very much about what its second, third, fourth and fifth acts will be.”
“The logical outworking of that is that we go there, as a starting point, and that we go there to maximise our influence to best serve the people of the North. That is what the SDLP intends to do. We want to join others in a kind of Celtic coalition to help lock David Cameron out of Downing Street. I think that would be a good result. <BR /> <BR />We have heard people in the Chamber, people on protest rallies and people from trade unions talk about the impact that the Tory Government have had in the North, whether on the welfare system or on our block grant.”
“I am glad to move the motion this afternoon. It is quite clear that this is one of the most interesting Westminster elections that we have seen in quite a while. For the first time in a long time, people here can have a say in what type of British Government are formed, what type of policies they will follow and what impact that will have on us here. We are all very good here at blaming the British when we run out of money, and we are very good at, rightly, recognising that the Tory cuts have been detrimental to our people and that the welfare cuts have had a very real and dangerous impact on the people of the North. If we recognise that, we have to recognise that that is where the decisions are being made in relation to those key areas of budget and welfare.”
“I ask the Minister for an update on the finalisation of the SPPS.”
“I thank the Minister for her answer, and I agree with her. However, does she agree with me that, without proper investment in the road network to the city and proper investment in the expansion of the university campus at Magee, we will not reach our economic potential and will not be able to attract high-end foreign direct investment to the city?”
“I thank the Minister for his answers thus far. Given the budget that the Minister is forced to work with, which will, bizarrely, result in us cutting student numbers when we are trying to grow an economy, what impact does the Minister think that will have on his widening participation strategy for higher education?”
“Yes, we will sign the petition of concern. We have said in public and we have said in private that we will sign the petition of concern when it comes to this House.”
“She asked whether we would sign the petition of concern.”
“I will answer Ms Caitríona Ruane's question —”
“I thank the Member for his intervention and for getting me an extra minute. Of course, the SDLP has no problem with any discussions. We do think, however, that it is very difficult to have those discussions in an atmosphere that has been created over the last number of months that, despite the DUP calling for respect and tolerance, has not been respectful or tolerant and has made people in our communities feel less than the rest of us. That is not the way to go forward. <BR /> <BR />We are open to any discussion or debate: you do not need an amendment to this motion to get that. You need to engage in the idea of a single equality Bill, where we can have all those issues addressed. We are up for that conversation. What we are absolutely not up for is supporting legislation that will, in our view, enshrine in law discrimination.”
“That shows the advancement that has been made over the past number of years.”
“Perhaps that is understandable, but we need to begin to send out a different message — to send out a message to the man in Belfast whose house was attacked recently after his husband passed away that that sort of activity is not condoned by us. That sort of activity should be left in the past where it belongs. We should send out the message that we as legislators stand with minorities, regardless of what minority it is, against people who would bully or intimidate them out of their home or drive them towards suicide, which is a very real concern for many in our community. <BR /> <BR />I was very proud when I was mayor of our city to lead the first Foyle Pride march in Derry. From Duke Street in the Waterside, that particular civil rights march actually made it to Guildhall.”
“I hope that I am not reading too much into the lack of amendment of that part of the motion from the DUP. We would all be grateful for confirmation of that. <BR /> <BR />The issue that has got all the media attention is the proposed conscience clause. We have to be careful in the House about the messages that we send out to members of our community. For a long time, people in our community who were described as LGBT had to hide who they were from their family, community and people in general. I think that we have moved a long way from that. I think that families in every community, regardless of religion or faith, have moved to understanding people's sexual orientation. As a society, we have moved far forward in that regard. <BR /> <BR />Unfortunately, the Assembly has not moved quite as fast.”
“My colleague Mr Attwood rightly pointed out that it was interesting that the DUP sought to amend only the part of the motion that dealt with the conscience clause issue and left alone the issue around age discrimination legislation. We can only assume that that means that the DUP now supports the idea that age discrimination legislation should not start at 16 and that people under that age should be entitled to avail themselves of the protections in law that people over 16 are entitled to avail themselves of. <BR /> <BR />There are not too many DUP Members here right now, but perhaps we can look forward to a new announcement from OFMDFM saying that it has changed its mind and finally has agreement on ensuring that everybody is covered by age discrimination legislation. That would be a positive step forward.”
“I thank the Alliance Party for tabling the motion. It is a very good and broad motion. It needs to be broad, because equality issues should not be narrowed to one Bill. <BR /> <BR />The motion understands that we are not there yet when it comes to equality legislation and that we are lacking a single equality Act. If people were prepared to engage on that, we could address some of the issues raised today. It is also good that the motion recognises that we have age discrimination legislation that discriminates against people on the basis of their age. By anybody's standards, that is a fairly bizarre way to do law.”
“I thank the commissioner for her answers thus far. Given what we have talked about already, the Budget cuts, and given the importance of outreach, by way of the educational work of the Assembly, especially the 'Let's Talk' programmes, for example, can the commissioner assure us that those things will not be cut and that there will still be a fully fledged educational process for our young people to engage with the Assembly?”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. Subsequent to that, will civil servants from the north-west be able to avail themselves of any potential vacancies that will arise from people not wanting to go to Ballykelly so that far fewer people will have to travel the Belfast road in the mornings?”
“Can the Minister assure us that her Department is continuously monitoring any issues pertinent to section 75 to ensure that we have a proper and full account of people coming from all different parts of our society on these boards?”
“The Minister mentioned some of the figures around HIV cases. The fact is that, since 2000, between the North and GB, we have had the largest increase in new HIV cases. Why is that, and what are we not doing to try to turn that around?”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I apologise to you and the House for missing a question during Question Time. I was in a meeting with the Secretary of State.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer thus far. I am glad to hear that the application is progressing. Can he give us an idea of when it will be finalised and when we will see the long-overdue redevelopment of the Brandywell stadium?”
“Sorry? Did you want to make an intervention, Mr Campbell? I cannot hear you speaking from a sedentary position, but I am glad to give way if Mr Campbell wants. You don't, OK. <BR /> <BR />I hope, as I said, that this is not about people getting cold feet about power-sharing, because it took us far too long to get to this point. Some councils have been very good at it over the years, and some not so good at it. I hope that this can be resolved, and I regret very much that the DUP has decided to petition this; bizarrely using a petition of concern to prevent a mechanism that would protect minorities. It is very strange. I look forward to the Minister's comments, and I hope that the DUP will rethink its position on this.”
“<BR /> <BR />I hope that, given that we have all bought into the idea of the protection of minorities and power-sharing in a real sense being finally put into legislation and local government, where people would have no real choice but to share power, people are not getting cold feet on that. I hope this is not about flags or anything else. I hope —”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. The point about Newry and Armagh and the McCreesh play park situation — I think our councillors should have been there and voted against it, our leader has made that very clear — is that this mechanism would stop that type of thing happening. That could have been called in, and then you would have had to have a qualified majority. That is the very reason why these mechanisms are put in. Unfortunately it does not apply in this case, but, if it did, I would be very supportive of it applying. It is about protection of minorities, whether unionist minorities in Newry or nationalist minorities in Craigavon.”
“<BR /> <BR />I accept the Member's apology, but it is not the way for the House to do business. We can have debates about petitions of concern all day, and we do, but not on an issue of legislation, when we have gone through the Committee process, public consultations and processes before that. Remember that the legislation has taken far too long to get to this stage. It has been with a number of Ministers, and thankfully Minister Durkan has been able to bring it to the House and get it across the line. Now we are at the very final hurdle with these regulations, faced with a petition of concern with no real opportunity to discuss with the officials.”
“It is kind of strange that we are here today in what is now becoming a debate. I do not think anybody in the Committee had intended to do much speaking today; they had all assumed that it was agreed and would go through as a matter of course, without any real debate. Well, we have the debate now, and it is very interesting. A lot of work had been done to ensure that power-sharing and protection for minorities were put at the centre of the new council arrangements. We spent a long time in Committee. I look at some of the worn-out officials in the Gallery who spent a long time working with us as we went back and forth, discussing all these issues. They were already discussed in the strategic leadership board, where everybody agreed. Now, at the eleventh hour, we have a petition of concern.”
“We have seen Internet campaigns and the 'University for Derry' campaign, but we see people still having to fight the issue. It is a real disappointment and disgrace that we still have to battle along these lines. Let us do one thing to address the economic difficulties of the north-west; let us commit as an Assembly and an Executive to investing in university places in Magee, to expanding on the numbers, to doing the right type of courses, and to finally, once and for all, attracting jobs for our people, so that they do not have to go to Glasgow, London, Manchester or Australia and never come back. That is a legacy that we have been left with; it is a legacy that we have to address. If we do not do it, we will have paid a disservice to the people of our city and the people of the North in general.”
“As Mr Ramsey said, this argument is not just a case of Derry people whinging again. It is not that. It is about Derry people understanding. I was delighted to hear some of the DUP Members recognise the fact that there have been decades of underinvestment in our city and that the only way to resolve that is to have over-investment in it now and to prioritise the places like our city, Strabane and the north-west, which have not had the commitment that we had needed to see over the years. <BR /> <BR />I pay tribute to some of the people who fought this campaign 50 years ago — people like Michael Canavan, John Hume and others. It has been pointed out that this was a cross-community campaign, because the economy is not a one-sided issue. However, the same issue has still to be fought.”
“That runs contrary to any argument about trying to develop an economy and, as other Members said, you cannot do that unless you make a real governmental and Executive commitment to fund higher education places in the North. We should not be spending fortunes on educating young people to a very high standard, then sending them off to Liverpool, Glasgow, London or Dublin to contribute to that economy. I think that fewer than 20% of them ever come home after they do that.”
“We understood that, without a proper ministerial and Executive commitment to deliver the One Plan, it would never happen. I am glad that it has now taken shape, and we think that it is the right place for those types of discussions. <BR /> <BR />This is not just a discussion about Derry; it is a discussion about the economy and skills across the North. We send, I think, 5,400 students to Britain every year. Every year. In fact, I think that we are one of the places that sends the highest number of students to university. Our problem is that many of them have to go across the water to find a place because England abolished the MaSN cap whereas we kept it.”
“We believe that this is an issue of such importance that the decision on it has to be taken by the Executive as a whole. I do not want to go back over recent history, but it is important to point out — I think that Ms Lo did — that the One Plan was barely mentioned in the Programme for Government. There certainly was no specific commitment to the expansion of Magee to 9,400 places by 2020. That is why we do not have it yet. If you do not have a commitment in a Programme for Government or a Budget, it will not be delivered. We all know the history of that, but we now need to begin to change things for the future. <BR /> <BR />That is why we support the north-west ministerial subgroup. In fact, we supported it four years ago when we proposed it to the First Minister and the deputy First Minister in a meeting.”
“<BR /> <BR />I was surprised at some of the Minister's attitude, but we agree with him that you cannot have a Budget that says that we are most in favour of creating and developing an economy but which, at the same time, cuts the skills agenda whilst protecting DETI. That is a bizarre position for any government to adopt. We support the Minister in arguing against that. However, he undermined his arguments slightly when he seemed to put up more and more obstacles to Magee's expansion, and I think that people in Derry will be asking questions about the Minister's real attitude. However, we take some of his earlier commitments at face value and have told him that we will support him in any bid that he wants to make. <BR /> <BR />The motion is about the One Plan and the Executive as a whole.”
“Skills are the number-one thing when you are seeking to attract foreign direct investment and encourage entrepreneurs to set up companies and create jobs. <BR /> <BR />North-east Donegal has had a 12·5% rate of corporation tax for over 30 years. However, they have had no real university provision and no motorway provision, and, unlike the rest of the South, they have suffered unemployment as Derry has. The Southern Government understood that they needed to put universities into Galway, Cork and Limerick with the right kind of courses, whether pharmaceutical or IT courses, and that they needed a decent road network. They also understood that corporation tax would be beneficial, but that it would not work without those other fundamentals.”
“This is not an argument about a university just for the sake of having an argument about a university; it is an argument about the economy. Every economist in the world whom I have talked to, read about or listened to understands that, without real investment in skills, you can never reach your economic potential. <BR /> <BR />We have heard a lot of discussion about corporation tax, which many people have described as a game changer. If you ask the businesspeople, the community people and the political people in Derry, the game changer for us is Magee's expansion. Corporation tax is one fiscal tool in any government's armoury. However, if you were to ask anyone who is looking to invest, they will tell you that the most important thing when they look at different cities and sites across the world is skills.”
“We believe very strongly that, unless we address the issue, Derry is never going to be able to reach its full potential and, in fact, Northern Ireland is not going to be able to reach its full potential. <BR /> <BR />If you look at all the economic league tables, you will see that Derry and the north-west in general are at the wrong end of them. It is a point that I have made before. The Derry City Council area has the lowest economic activity in the North at 55%, with the Northern Ireland average being 67%. We have the highest percentage of jobseeker's allowance claimants across Ireland or Britain. I think that we are second only to Strabane, our new council partner, in the number of long-term claimants that we have.”
“<BR /> <BR />If you look through some of the papers from 1965, you will see that the Government of the day were originally going to use the Lockwood report just to close down Magee, even in the limited way that it was operating at that time. However, it was felt that, because of some of the protests that were happening, Magee would have to remain in place. The attitude was, "Throw it the bone of a few arts courses, and that will keep the people of Derry happy." Well, it did not. It is clear that some of the attitude of, "Throw them a few courses, and they will be happy enough", still exists in some quarters. Well, we are not happy, Mr Deputy Speaker, as you have probably worked out.”
“I thank most of the Members who spoke for their contributions. I think that it has been a good debate. Unfortunately, it is a debate that we have had to have for a long time. As referred to in the motion and continually throughout the debate, it is a debate that we have been having for 50 years. We are not mentioning the Lockwood report and the 50-year anniversary just because we have some nostalgic notion about 1965. It is because that was a great wrong that was committed on the people of the north-west by this place in a different incarnation. The reason why we reference it is because it is a wrong that has never been righted, and I think that it is about time that it was.”
“My plea is that, if we do anything after this budgetary process, it should be to work out how we can invest in infrastructure and skills, because we will still be facing the high levels of unemployment in my city, in Strabane and in areas around there that we have been for years if we do not expand Magee and build proper and decent roads from Derry to Belfast and Derry to Dublin. <BR /> <BR />No matter how you tinker with the budgets or anything else, unless you do those fundamental things, my end of the North will be forever languishing in economic deprivation because we do not know what it is like not to have a recession.”
“We should be increasing the number of students. Every other part of the world understands that, even in tough economic times, if there is only one place in which to invest, that should be higher and further education. That is the only way in which to attract foreign direct investment, encourage entrepreneurship and create jobs. <BR /> <BR />If we spend our time doing a great job with education and then, when they hit 18 , send our young people to Manchester, Liverpool, Dublin or London, they will never come back. Something like 80% of them stay within a 22-mile radius of where they go to university. They do not come home. We are educating children for export.”
“That is why lower corporation tax on its own does not work. <BR /> <BR />Ask the people of north-east Donegal, who have had corporation tax at a very low level for a long number of years. They have seen no impact from it, because the roads were not invested in at that end of the country and there was no investment in higher education to the proper level to attract the inward investment that we require. Whilst we can discuss the Budget, and we have, we need to be investing to save in the upcoming CSR period. We need to be investing in infrastructure, particularly in the north-west, and skills. <BR /> <BR />We send 5,000-odd students out of Northern Ireland every year; we need to stop doing that. We cannot say that we are going to support DETI to bring in foreign direct investment and then reduce the number of students in our universities.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have big fears around some of the arguments that we are having now. In principle, I agree that the rate of corporation tax should be brought down to the same level as that in the Twenty-six Counties, but the difficulty with corporation tax being brought down to 12·5% without investing in infrastructure and skills is that we end up with no advantage whatsoever. I know, because I live in a place called Derry. We have a border at the edge of our city in three different directions, so we have a 12·5% rate of corporation tax. Businesses could come and set up in Bridgend if corporation tax were the sole attraction, but what we do not have is a university providing the right kinds of courses with the right numbers and the transport infrastructure to connect the city to the rest of the island.”
“My argument, coming as I do from west of the Bann and a city that has the highest unemployment rate — an unemployment rate that does not seem to be getting any better — is this: what did we do when we had the money, before the Tories came into power and made major cuts? <BR /> <BR />Where did we invest? Did we invest in the A5 or the A6? Did we invest in ensuring that the university at the Magee campus was expanded to 10,000 students doing the right kinds of courses for attracting investment? No, we did not. To stand up and blame the Tories is all very well, but we have to understand that, when there was money in the pot, we did not invest. Parties that are now saying that it is all the Tories' fault did not invest in the skills and infrastructure that we need to develop our economy.”
“I honestly do not know what happened in Omagh and Fermanagh. I will gladly talk to the Member afterwards, and perhaps he can enlighten me on what went on. It would not be unusual for people to argue for their own area, especially at a time when we are merging councils. <BR /> <BR />I want to touch on something that we need to be aware of. I know that Members have talked about the Tories and about the British Government this and Westminster that, and I agree. The Tories have brought in savage cuts to our Budget and to budgets across Britain, but we have to be mindful of the fact that we are responsible for our budgets in the vast majority of public policy areas, so we have to take responsibility for our actions.”
“People will see through that and understand —”
“Members should be honest in saying that they are voting for a Budget that creates a cut. Everybody knows that that is what it is doing, so to go to local councils and do something different is a bit disingenuous.”