Sammy Douglas
East Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Avoid the appearance of wrongdoing. There is a sense out there that what is happening, over the last number of years, is wrong. The courts are too lenient and even the PPS is too lenient. William Humphrey said earlier that it undermines the criminal justice system. I agree with William.”
“It was claimed by the so-called Real IRA, and, as my colleague mentioned, the accused has broken bail conditions on five occasions. <BR /> <BR />There has been talk in the debate about human rights.”
“I rise as a member of the Justice Committee to speak in the debate, and I thank Douglas Beattie and his colleagues for bringing the motion to the House. I am here to support the motion.”
“Certainly, in the midst of his comments, there is a frustration. That frustration has been there for many years, not just recently. I agree with the Chief Constable.”
“Minister, you alluded to north Belfast. Have you looked at the statements by the Chief Constable, who has questioned the linkages that may be undermining the whole criminal justice system in situations like that? <BR /> <BR />Also, I want to pay tribute to you. I think that you have been a great Minister.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. I certainly agree with my colleague about the full rigour of the law. The Assembly should be tough on crime and tough on the reasons behind crime.”
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“Whilst there are other ways to secure lending, such as through a legal mortgage or a charge, the proposal to enable the Housing Executive to register a statutory charge in respect of grants by way of a loan is the most cost-effective. I again thank the Minister for moving Second Stage and officials for their help and support.”
“Anything that will help social landlords to take action against individuals involved in antisocial behaviour must be welcomed. Antisocial behaviour is a blight on our communities, and all too often we see individuals in communities taking matters into their own hands. Better information sharing between the different statutory agencies will empower social landlords to tackle these issues more easily. One of the questions that I ask the Minister to address is this: does he believe that we are doing all that we can to address the problems of antisocial behaviour? <BR /> <BR />Finally, on the registration of statutory charges, the Minister referred to how the Department and Housing Executive are exploring the use of loan assistance for private-sector housing repairs and improvements. Without the Bill, loans made would be unsecured.”
“That could help to reduce the pressures on our housing lists and get homeless people off the streets. Just this morning, I heard a radio debate about homelessness and what we are doing as a community to address it. However, this could also lead to a reduction in the deterioration of properties and related crime, as well as an increase in revenue through rates. <BR /> <BR />Maybe the Minister will address the growing number of questions on the sharing of information about empty homes and antisocial behaviour. Individuals and organisations are often unwilling to provide information relating to antisocial behaviour to the Housing Executive or housing associations for fear of data protection issues. Clause 2 provides for disclosure of such information.”
“I thank the Minister for bringing the Housing (Amendment) Bill to the Floor. Like the Member who spoke previously, I will talk generally about the principles of the Bill, starting with information sharing and empty homes. <BR /> <BR />Certainly, for me, there is an opportunity to help to address the increasing housing need across Northern Ireland by renovating and bringing empty homes back into use. Information sharing between the Department of Finance's Land and Property Services, which holds such information, and the Northern Ireland Housing Executive is key to identifying the location and ownership of these properties and allowing the Department to encourage owners to take the required action to enable such homes to be occupied. <BR /> <BR />An opportunity exists to cut through red tape.”
“The Minister mentioned the Dame Anne Owers report. However, Nick Hardwick, the Chief Inspector of Prisons in England and Wales, highlighted in the CJINI report that only 16 of the 93 recommendations in the 2012 report had been achieved in full. How can the Minister claim that progress has been made over the past three years when it is clear that things have got markedly worse?”
“Does the Minister accept that there has been a failure to properly set realistic legal aid budgets and ensure that spend is as close to the budget as possible? What does the Minister intend to do to rectify the situation prior to the setting of the 2016-17 budget?”
“I thank the Minister for his statement to the House this morning. I note the comments by Colin Stutt at page 71 of the report:”
“We all know that, with economic appraisals, the first option is to do nothing. Is that what this motion is about? If we are talking about doing nothing, there is very often a cost. Has this been costed? Will it cost the Assembly money if we just stop what we are doing?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. The motion states:”
“I thank the Minister for his answers thus far. Could he outline how new social housing is being built to meet the needs of wheelchair users?”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. I thank the Member for his intervention. <BR /> <BR />I am shocked to think that we are still talking about these issues two or three years later; I seriously thought that they had definitely been put to bed. If today's debate was about innovation, how we could do things better, improve maintenance, get better housing and deal with the homeless, I would be happy enough to get stuck in and have a debate about those issues. <BR /> <BR />I see people with homelessness difficulties in my constituency office weekly. I was talking to a colleague earlier, and that is a big issue. I am happy to deal with those issues, but this motion is out of date, and I, for one, will certainly be opposing it.”
“Part of the reason for that is a lack of finance. I heard officials talk about segregated housing on a number of occasions. The figures bandied about were something like 95% of social housing was Protestant or Catholic — totally segregated. <BR /> <BR />Those are some of the issues that we will have to deal with if we are dealing with the legacy of the problems of Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />I honestly think that this motion is three years out of date. Maybe the Member could address some of those issues.”
“A few hours ago, I was on the Justice Committee where we talked about the reform of justice in Northern Ireland because the finances are not there and the prisons are struggling. I believe in reform that protects jobs and provides a reasonable service. <BR /> <BR />The Member stated that, at our Committee meeting last week, we had officials from the Department who talked about the issues that they faced, one of which was being highly dependent on the public purse. We are struggling at the moment with the public purse. What will it be like when David Cameron introduces the £12 billion of cuts right across the United Kingdom? Struggling at the moment? We ain't seen nothing yet, to be quite honest. <BR /> <BR />We all know that there are huge problems at the Housing Executive with a lack of maintenance in many areas.”
“The protocol here is to welcome the Member's contribution today, but to be honest, I was involved with the Committee for Social Development and I stepped down for a while. I came here today and thought, "Is this déjà vu?" because I honestly do not know why this motion has been brought three years later. Three years ago, I think it was, when we debated this. We had consultations and talked to stakeholders. I thought that this was signed, sealed and delivered. Maybe I missed something in the intervening years. The Member talked about ceasing immediately and a need for full political debate. Am I wrong, but I think that we had that, to be quite honest? <BR /> <BR />I would be the first to say that we need reform.”
“It did a tremendous job. I am here to say that I am a huge supporter of the Housing Executive and understand many of the difficulties that it has gone through.”
“I will start off by outlining my view of the Housing Executive and my experience, like the Member before me, of working with the organisation for over 30 years. The Minister for Social Development, Mervyn Storey, spoke at a Housing Executive conference over the summer, and he was very well received. I spoke to some of the people who were there, who said that they were re-envisioned by his contribution and had a real sense again of what they were about. He encouraged them to keep on working in very difficult circumstances. <BR /> <BR />In 2008, in my constituency, the then Castlereagh Borough Council awarded the freedom of the borough to the Northern Ireland Housing Executive. I was one of those who encouraged the council to do that, because my experience of working with the Housing Executive in the Castlereagh area was excellent.”
“The Member has mentioned flags and emblems. For me, what the Minister is proposing to do is very ambitious given the time constraints. At our last Committee meeting, our Clerk told us that we have 24 weeks. Maybe the Minister could answer this question, although I do not know whether he will be able to answer it or not: where do we draw the line? I am not talking only about this. If someone else or two or three other people come in with amendments, where do we draw the line and say, "Enough is enough, we just do not have the time in this mandate"?”
“We all know the financial pressures that our prisons are under and that they are under-resourced. I was in Maghaberry prison earlier this week, and the staff there are doing a wonderful job, but they are struggling with sickness and pressures. The principles will definitely free up prisoners, staff and resources. <BR /> <BR />I support the principles of the Bill and look forward to working with the Committee, the stakeholders, the Minister and his officials.”
“We often think that those people are young or middle-aged, but I have met elderly people who have been on those schemes, which have helped them. <BR /> <BR />At the moment, there are cuts right across Northern Ireland, including in the community and voluntary sector, and there is an opportunity to try to support those groups with their long-term sustainability because many of them have had funding withdrawn. We all know about Peace money and that many of those groups struggle with other aspects of funding. I look forward to consultation with many of those groups and stakeholders, who have been very helpful to us. <BR /> <BR />I agree with the Minister that the Bill addresses issues of concern. The costs associated with people who fail to pay and do not want to pay have been raised a number of times.”
“I agree with Alban Maginness that, with this aspect, we really need to remember where many of the people who cannot pay are coming from. In my office, I very often see people who are struggling with life itself and paying bills. Let us have a real sense of openness, awareness and grace when we look at those people who definitely cannot pay. The last thing that we want is for people to end up incarcerated. We all know what prison can do to people. Often, people go into prison and get involved in a range of activities and associations, and they come out worse than they went in. <BR /> <BR />As the Minister said, there are schemes that benefit the community. In my constituency of East Belfast, the Probation Board for Northern Ireland has introduced excellent schemes in which people are participating.”
“I believe that we are on the right road to transforming justice. Reform is needed, and the Minister outlined that. One thing that we have been involved in — we have mentioned it before — is that our Chair, Alastair Ross, has introduced innovation seminars to look at new ways to do justice better and more humanely in many ways and to look at reducing costs, which affect all of us right across not just Northern Ireland but the United Kingdom and Europe. <BR /> <BR />I will briefly mention Part 1, which relates to fine collection and enforcement. There is a television programme that I am sure most of us have watched, 'Can't Cook, Won't Cook'; I fit into both those categories. The Minister talked about "can't-pays" and "won't-pays", which is a very good description.”
“There has been a very good relationship between the Minister, the Department and the Committee. I echo the sentiments of other Members on our Chair and Deputy Chair. I think they have provided excellent leadership in the Justice Committee. For me, it shows what can be done when we work together. We have our own opinions and difficulties, but we can put the good of justice in Northern Ireland right to the forefront and work together.”
“I am pleased to welcome the Second Stage of the Bill. We will be looking at a range of issues, but, first of all, I welcome and wish the very best to the new Member, Neil Somerville. I thought that he gave an excellent speech. He mentioned all of the good, wonderful and noble things about Fermanagh, but he forgot to mention two major assets in Fermanagh. One is Minister Arlene Foster and the other one — probably more importantly to me today — is Kyle Lafferty, who scored a wonderful goal last night at Windsor Park. Excuse me; my voice is a wee bit hoarse this morning. When he scored that goal, he ran up to the stand in front of me, and I just wish that I had been able to reach out and hug him. What a night for Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />I certainly agree with the Minister that much has been achieved in this mandate.”
“The Member mentioned Comber. People like me cycle from the Castlereagh Road out to Comber. I go there for tea or coffee. In fact, the First Minister has bought me lunch in Comber. I want that in Hansard.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. I agree with him. We want to encourage the use of lighting, because it encourages women in particular to use the greenway. Moreover, people cycling along do not know what may be lying on the path. <BR /> <BR />I am delighted that we are here tonight, and I encourage the Minister to try to help support the development of the Comber greenway.”
“We need some sort of costed development plan and joined-up approach.”
“It is seen by local people as a park and should be developed and maintained as such, as is the Lagan towpath, which is part of the Lagan Valley regional park. <BR /> <BR />The Comber greenway could have as many visitors as the Lagan Valley regional park, were it to be treated more as a linear parkway. It certainly requires tree and shrub maintenance, regular grass cutting, frequent rubbish collections and lighting. That is one of the things that I ask the Minister to consider. My experience with the Connswater Community Greenway was that, initially, a number of residents did not want any lighting, but once we had partial lighting on it some of those residents who had not wanted it at first asked us to provide it. As my colleague said earlier, lighting is essential late at night and on the dark nights during the winter.”
“<BR /> <BR />I congratulate the Minister and the Department for Regional Development in moving ahead with the Belfast rapid transport scheme; it will be a world-class public transport system that will run alongside the Comber greenway in east Belfast. Together, they have the potential to provide this area of the city with a world-class sustainable transport system. They should be developed, promoted and marketed together. The Comber greenway is owned and maintained by Transport NI to road standards. However, that is one of the difficulties, because the grass is only cut as the route is perceived as a road, unlike many of our parks. Some additional maintenance is undertaken by local authorities.”
“I remember the First Minister being at the launch of the Connswater Community Greenway. He said that it was great for east Belfast but that the Comber greenway must not become the poor relation. While the Comber greenway is a great success, there is concern that, without further investment, it will fail to meet its potential. The nearby Connswater Community Greenway, which is under construction as has been outlined, is setting new standards for public communication corridors. It is imperative, therefore, that the Comber greenway is not left behind. To prevent that from happening, I agree with the previous contributors that a development plan is essential.”
“Sixty-one per cent used the greenway on weekdays; 48% were cyclists and 46% were pedestrians. I use the greenway regularly and have noticed the increase in cyclists, particularly since the Giro d'Italia and the Gran Fondo. Twenty-four per cent of users commute to work on the route; that is important because it takes people off the roads as they head to work along that beautiful corridor. Sixty per cent could have used a car for their journey but chose not to. Eighty-six per cent said that the route helped them to increase their level of activity. I am sure that the Health Minister, who is here as an MLA, would recognise that. <BR /> <BR />The greenway's contribution to Belfast was recognised at a European level when it received the prestigious European greenways award in 2009.”
“While it functions as a traffic-free commuter route, it is also used for leisure and has effectively become a linear park. Following the line of a former railway, the route goes from Comber to east Belfast, passing through tranquil countryside with views of Stormont, Scrabo Tower and the Belfast hills. We all know that the greenway is part of route 99 of the National Cycle Network, linking with the new Connswater Community Greenway to connect to the Titanic Quarter and Belfast city centre. <BR /> <BR />The numbers and types of users of the greenway have increased significantly over the past number of years, and the Minister will recognise that; it is used by walkers, joggers, dog walkers and cyclists. Interestingly, it is estimated that last year more than 200,000 trips were made on the Comber greenway.”
“Thank you for staying for tonight. I always wanted to use one of these lecterns, so I am glad they left them behind. I also thank the Minister for taking time out tonight. I want to declare an interest. I am a trustee with the Connswater Community Greenway and, as the proposer mentioned the Hanwood Centre in Tullycarnet, I am also a director of that. Again, I want to thank my colleague, Robin Newton, for bringing this very timely Adjournment debate. <BR /> <BR />As most Members have said already, the Comber greenway is a wonderful asset for the residents of east Belfast and, indeed, the whole of Belfast, and beyond. Since it opened in 2008, the Comber greenway has become one of Northern Ireland's most popular walking and cycling routes.”
“I apologise for my phone going off. I set it to silent, but my cyclometer decided to tell me how many miles that I had travelled from my home to here. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Minister for his very full statement. Did he have any discussions with his counterparts on maximising European funding, and, if so, can he outline to the House some of the European projects that we can potentially access money for?”
“I want to finish by saying that I welcome the fact that the licence will also provide a curfew condition, provided under article 26 of the order, which will require a released prisoner to remain at a particular place for a set period each day during their early release period. That period cannot be less than nine hours in any one day, and prisoners who fail to comply with the licence conditions may be recalled to custody at any time before the custody expiry date is reached. I am sure that there will be some sort of review of the scheme, and I ask the Minister to detail what the process and extent of that review will be. I support the amendment.”
“The Bill must ensure public confidence in the scheme, and I am pleased that the Department has further tightened the original qualifying criteria. Maybe the Minister will outline the tightening-up of the criteria. The Department said that it has included:”
“<BR /> <BR />Article 19 already provides the Department with quite a wide-ranging discretionary power to release prisoners early, and, certainly, the Minister has that power. I welcome the departmental proposals, including:”
“I certainly believe that it is important to reward hard work and exemplary behaviour to help low-risk offenders to reintegrate into society more quickly <BR /> <BR />The scheme must be deliberately restrictive because we need to maximise public confidence in it, and in the wider criminal justice system, so we are targeting the release of low-risk, model prisoners. In a previous role, I worked with ex-prisoners, and I have a question to which maybe the Minister or someone else will provide a response. Certainly, in those days, some prisoners were released early because they got a job. Are we including in early release only people who are able to take up a paid job, or are we talking about those who will take unpaid community work? No takers? OK.”
“In the Republic of Ireland, the community return programme is an incentivised scheme that provides for earned temporary release, under which offenders who are assessed by the Irish Prison Service are offered early temporary release in return for supervised community service. Officers of the Probation Service assess offenders as to suitability and motivation to complete the community work. <BR /> <BR />I suppose that, in one sense, we all recognise that people who receive a custodial prison sentence have been found guilty of breaking the law and are being punished by being deprived of their freedom, but here we are talking about a small number of prisoners who present a low risk of reoffending and have been model prisoners during their time in custody. Their release is under strict licence conditions.”
“I support amendment No 6, which has been tabled by my colleague the Chairman of our Committee. I will make a few general comments, because there seems to be some consensus among Members present. <BR /> <BR />We are not debating a new idea in conditional early release. It has been utilised for some time in other jurisdictions, as ideas on how best to rehabilitate and resettle offenders change and develop. <BR /> <BR />We are talking about an extensive early release scheme, such as exists in Great Britain and the Republic of Ireland. England and Wales, for example, together with Scotland, operate home detention curfew arrangements, while the Irish Prison Service launched a community return scheme in 2011. Those schemes see sizeable numbers of prisoners released early from the custodial parts of their sentences.”
“I am sure that the Minister will agree that we are talking about some of the most vulnerable young people. Will he agree to keep the House informed of developments with Woodlands?”
“The Minister mentioned increased provision in some schools. A school principal said to me recently that it is strange that, in her school, over the last 15 years, there have always been empty places, which are often filled by underage children, yet a school up the road has 10 extra new places. There seems to be a lack of strategy.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, I have heard you mention how such groups in your area do tremendous work. They need support. I have spoken to the Minister about this before, so, hopefully, he will have a bit of good news for us for the future. I welcome this Adjournment debate.”
“It is the same every year; there seems to be an sense of absolute chaos. <BR /> <BR />I want to raise another issue. We discussed this recently in connection with support from the community and voluntary sector. The Dee Street Playgroup that I am involved with has just organised a petition, and we have signed up dozens of MLAs and a number of Ministers. Hopefully, during the June monitoring round, that petition will have some sort of influence, because playgroups like this do a tremendous amount of work.”
“We have all faced those emails, phone calls and letters. My concern is that there seems to be a major problem in communication. I think my colleague mentioned that. Also, people must be given enough time to work out the areas that their children can go to. <BR /> <BR />I know that the Minister was at the launch of the EastSide Learning Partnership. There was no mention of asking for money; they were just celebrating the importance of lifelong learning. It is their mission to support children at the earliest possible stage, and I just want to let the Minister know that they are meeting the board, along with Early Years, in order to plan for next year. Instead of leaving it to the last minute, they are trying to get things organised. There is a problem with the lack of a strategy.”
“<BR /> <BR />I was speaking to a primary-school teacher earlier today who said that, of 30 children who were assessed, 28 had speech and communication difficulties. The big question is this: why is that happening? I am not quite sure why there is a growing number of children like that. <BR /> <BR />In the past, some of these children would have been assessed in October. One of my concerns is that they are now talking about January. In fact, I know of some children who have not yet been given a date for assessment. So, they are going into year 1 and already have a big problem in trying to catch up with other children. Hopefully, the Minister will address that problem. <BR /> <BR />Then, there is the whole issue of parents scrambling to get a place in nurseries and primary schools. It is a big issue.”
“If this debate is about anything, it is about raising the expectations and interests of parents and children so that they will embark upon a lifelong love of learning. What a tremendous mission statement. So, it is building for the future and is an investment in our children and society. <BR /> <BR />I know that the colleague who brought forward the debate mentioned a number of areas. However, I want to raise some concerns over the next couple of minutes. The first thing that Fearghal McKinney mentioned was the number of children in East Belfast who have additional or special educational needs. I detect that that number is growing across East Belfast. The question is this: how do we protect and support the most vulnerable in our society?”
“<BR /> <BR />Seriously, though, I was looking through the mission statement of the Ravenscroft Nursery School today. This is what it says:”
“I certainly welcome the debate, and I thank my colleague for East Belfast for bringing it forward. I think she has put forward a very comprehensive argument in a number of areas. I also thank the Minister for attending, because, too often, these Adjournment debates have little or no representation from Departments. So I thank the Minister for being here. I also declare an interest as a member of the board of governors for the Braniel Primary School and, today, I was appointed to Ravenscroft Nursery School. <BR /> <BR />It is interesting; I was speaking to the principal of Ravenscroft today. It is oversubscribed. It is a very successful nursery, but the problem is that it is too small, so I want to record a bid to the Minister for an extension to that nursery school. Maybe he can keep that in mind for the future.”
“I heard the Minister say a couple of times that he was very disappointed, and we understand that. Perhaps he is taking this a bit personally. My colleague, the Chairman of the Committee, mentioned Henry VIII at one stage. I do not honestly believe that the Chairman was alluding to you; in fact, he said that he was not. However, might it not be the case that some Members are concerned that not you but the next Justice Minister may be a Henry VIII-type figure? Might we not be afraid of that?”
“Hopefully, it will form a new domestic and sexual violence and abuse strategy, something that we can get our teeth into and can plan for into the future. I look forward to the Minister's response to the amendments.”