Órlaithí Flynn
West Belfast · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“<BR /> <BR />Parliamentary privilege is a complicated issue, but it is a very important one for all Members to understand. It was helpful to get Matthew's intervention on the fact that the repeal changes nothing for Members. It simply takes away the reference to privilege which never fully existed. I thank Matthew for his intervention.”
“My comments will be brief. As Deputy Chairperson of the Committee on Procedures, I welcome the opportunity to conclude today's debate on the motion to repeal Standing Order 70 and make a number of consequential amendments.”
“<BR /> <BR />I thank the Chairperson and members of the Committee on Standards and Privileges for undertaking a comprehensive review of Standing Order 70 and for bringing the outcomes of that work to the Committee on Procedures, with the recommendation to make the changes to Standing Orders.”
“I thank the Minister for that response. As you outlined, Minister, a key part of creating a more resilient road network is having the workforce to deliver it. We know that British austerity has severely impacted on our workforce in DFI, creating an over-reliance on contractors and driving up the cost of works as a result.”
“I support the motion, and I thank its sponsors. <BR /> <BR />For many people, the journey to becoming a parent is not straightforward. Whilst some conceive without difficulty, others face years of heartbreak, uncertainty and loss.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have learned that people often talk about IVF as though it guarantees a baby. Tragically, the reality is that that is not always the case. This is not the first motion calling for three cycles of IVF that we have debated.”
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“I thank the Minister for her response. I hope that she will send someone in her place if she cannot make it. Regrettably, a lot of people from across our communities will hear in her answer a refusal to attend that does not fulfil her cross-community duty, in the spirit of respect and reconciliation, to represent everyone across our society. Sadly, that is what many people will hear in your answer, which is in stark contrast with the leadership that our First Minister for all showed at yesterday's event. It is an extremely stark contrast.”
“Does the deputy First Minister agree that, as she outlined, Casement Park is indeed an Executive commitment and remains a priority commitment?”
“I hope that we can get that over the line in the coming months. That would be very welcome. With regard to the longer term, staff reassured us that the new regional children's hospital has been designed and built with children with additional needs and sensory needs at its heart. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Member for tabling the Adjournment topic. I am happy to support it.”
“It raised the issues of risk from the spread of infection, the fact that you are dealing with very sick children and whether a separate sensory space would create more risk for children, who would want to leave their parents to play and mix together. Those are all genuine issues that the clinicians, doctors and nurses who treat the kids have to think about. At the meeting, they agreed to go away and look at some models that are already in place. I think that it was Gerry Kelly who mentioned at the meeting that a school in north Belfast had put in place a mobile sensory room. I genuinely do not know what has taken place since the meeting, but I saw that, recently, the Minister responded to a question for written answer by saying that options may be explored with a charity for some type of mobile sensory room.”
“When all the issues that Cheryl mentioned for a child with additional needs are put into the mix, there is additional trauma for that wee child, who is already not well, in that environment. I do not think that anyone would disagree with the need to call for those facilities. <BR /> <BR />Around a month or two ago, a delegation of Belfast MLAs and MPs met the chief executive of the Belfast Trust. At that stage, Maureen Edwards was still in post, so the meeting was not with the new chief executive, Jennifer Welsh. We raised the issue of the sensory space. The trust discussed issues of capacity, the room, the set-up of that ED and where you would physically put that space.”
“She talked about her personal experience, and the chances are that anyone in the Chamber who has been blessed with being a mother or a father will have had to bring their child or sick baby into a hospital environment. This time last year, I was in that position with a sick child. I think that he had just turned two; it is coming up to a year ago, so he was a very sick two-year-old. The emergency department was completely chaotic, because, in the wintertime, with the winter pressures, there are more people in those departments. It was particularly bad because there were so many wee, sick, vulnerable, upset and frail children everywhere, and, on top of that, there were all the really concerned, worried and distressed parents.”
“I thank Cheryl and the DUP for securing this important Adjournment debate. Cheryl has articulately outlined the risks that are at play if we cannot provide that type of facility for parents who are already really worried, stressed and concerned, with sick children who really need that kind of space, particularly when they are in that difficult environment. She also mentioned Erin, who, fair play to her, has probably reached out to most of us with her petition and the campaign that she has undertaken. That has definitely given the issue a bit of a lift and focused people's minds on it. I hope that we will receive some good news from the Minister when he responds to the debate. <BR /> <BR />I will not repeat Cheryl's points.”
“I thank the Minister for that response. Does he agree that the autumn Budget could also be used to review the VAT rate, which could help to support our hospitality businesses?”
“I thank the First Minister for her response. Will she commit to continuing to do everything that she can to build equality and to protect language and cultural rights for everyone right across our society?”
“First Minister for that detailed response. I note that you referred to the launch of the childcare scheme at the end of your response. Do you agree that we still need to do much more to deliver high-quality and affordable childcare for parents?”
“I thank the Minister for that response. I am sure that he will appreciate the difficulty, which we all hear about in our constituency offices, particularly when a young person has lived their whole life in a family home, and then, sadly, a parent or relative passes away, and they have to leave their home. If there is a review of the issue, we need to try to take on board the experience of that cohort of young people who live their whole life in a home but then have to move out due to the current policy.”
“I thank the Minister for that response. He touched on my next question: does the Minister accept that, without changes to the British Government's inheritance tax proposals, the future sustainability of family farms here could be undermined? Will he give that commitment to continue to press the British Government to rethink those plans?”
“I appreciate that update from the Minister. Does she agree that it is about getting the message out to people that those measures are genuinely about giving people an alternative to sitting in traffic and that that is the message that she wants to promote?”
“I thank the Minister for her response. Will she elaborate on the expected benefits of the pilot for late-night transport?”
“Sorry, Minister, I do not want to take up too much of your response time. On the interim measures, have you looked at the model, which was referred to by a couple of Members, that appeared in the BBC 'Spotlight' programme — the temporary ward that was set up in Exeter? Have you or your officials looked at that?”
“I am thinking of the maternal advocacy and support (Mas) project, the Maternal Mental Health Alliance, Action on Postpartum Psychosis, and journalists such as Marie-Louise Connolly, who continues to expose the reality that is faced by mothers. Their determination has ensured that this issue remains on the public and political agenda, but they should not have to fight so hard for something so basic. We now have the opportunity to put things right, to deliver a mother-and-baby unit on this island and to build compassionate perinatal mental health care.”
“We have multiple debates in the Chamber on women's health issues. It was endometriosis last week or the week before. We have had conversations around gynae stuff. Hopefully, there will be good announcements around that, and we look forward to hearing those. This is basically about giving women, and mothers in particular, the dignity, safety and care that they deserve after having their babies. It is so important for a mother and baby to have that period to nurture and bond. Mothers and their wider families deserve that type of healthcare. <BR /> <BR />I acknowledge and thank the groups and campaigners who have kept this issue to the fore, including clinicians, advocacy groups and family members.”
“We do not know how many women in recent years have experienced postpartum psychosis or tragically died by suicide during or after pregnancy. That gap is not just a failure of record-keeping; it is a failure to fully value women's health and lives. We cannot change what we refuse to measure. Furthermore, we need to take a wider all-island view. Progress that is similar to ours is being made in the South. Their business case for a mother-and-baby unit at St Vincent's University Hospital, Dublin, is more or less ready to go but has not made it to the next stage, so we are still without a unit anywhere across the Thirty-two Counties. <BR /> <BR />We now have an opportunity and, indeed, a responsibility to do things differently. This issue sits within a broader picture of delay and underinvestment in women's health.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Exeter MBU featured in the BBC 'Spotlight' programme shows how a temporary unit, although not perfect, can provide safe, specialist care that keeps mothers and babies together during recovery. Hopefully, that can be put in place while plans for a permanent facility progress. Interim measures are welcome but cannot replace a properly resourced specialist mother-and-baby unit. Anything less continues a legacy of neglect that we should all be determined to end. <BR /> <BR />There are legitimate questions about whether our system is meeting clinical and ethical standards of care for women with severe perinatal illness. Training remains inconsistent, especially among GPs, emergency staff and first responders. Equally concerning is the lack of reliable data.”
“It is my understanding that the draft business case is now with the strategic planning and performance group (SPPG), which is very welcome, but I am hoping that we hear from the Minister and the Department today about a more definitive time frame for delivery. Women cannot wait for another five years. We heard of 2030 as a possible opening date, and that is simply indefensible. We remain cautious about short-term interim units, and we will get into a discussion on that with the UUP amendment. However, you do not want a short-term interim unit to become a good enough long-term solution. That is the problem with calling for that. What is clear is that we need to see some of that sort of action now to prevent further trauma being inflicted on women in those situations.”
“In 2025, the island of Ireland, North and South, remains without a specialist mother-and-baby unit. Not one exists anywhere on the island, and that is a shameful distinction when compared with England, Scotland and Wales, which provide dedicated therapeutic spaces where mothers can recover alongside their babies, supported by teams of perinatal psychiatry specialist nurses, nursery nurses, psychologists and occupational therapists. That is what best practice looks like, and it is what women here deserve. <BR /> <BR />We have been told — I am sure that we will hear an update on this from the Minister — that the Belfast City Hospital site has been chosen for a mother-and-baby unit and that work on the business case is well advanced.”
“The Assembly's all-party group (APG) on women's health has heard from numerous mothers who had been through the similar experience of being placed on a general psychiatric ward. I previously spoke about the matter at Members' statements. They were placed beside a smoking area and did not have access to the one of the basics that a woman deserves, which is proper bathing facilities to get a bath after going through childbirth.”
“<BR /> <BR />In her own words, she described being forced to choose between stopping breastfeeding and starting to pump every four hours. Having to make what may seem like a very small decision, either to stop breastfeeding or to start pumping, imposes an unimaginable emotional burden and takes its toll on a woman who has just given birth to a baby and is already dealing with mental illness. That is on top of being separated from her baby. <BR /> <BR />She told me that the staff were very kind and very good to her. That is an important point to make. I know that the staff in that unit are very good to their patients, and that has to be recognised. Not all of them, however, are trained or equipped to manage a postpartum mental health crisis specifically.”
“Her name is Leah, and I had not spoken to her before. She reached out to me to share some of her experience. Leah's case is very current, as she began going through the process a short number of months ago and is still going through it. I send her and her wee baby my best wishes. When she reached out to me, she explained that, very recently, when her baby was just three weeks old, she began to experience severe postpartum depression. She was told that it was just the baby blues and that she would be fine in a few weeks. A few weeks came and went, and, instead, her condition deteriorated. She became suicidal, lost the precious bond that she had formed with her baby and was admitted to the mental health unit at the City Hospital. That was the first time that she had ever been apart from her newborn baby.”
“I therefore hope, for that family and all the families who have lost loved ones in that way and who are struggling, and for all the families who have gone through the experience of having someone placed in a psychiatric ward without their baby, that, when he responds to the debate, the Minister may give them a wee bit of hope about what comes next. <BR /> <BR />Women who have experienced postpartum psychosis have described themselves as feeling like prisoners, having been abandoned in a psychiatric ward without their baby. They have spoken about enduring isolation, confusion and trauma at the very moment that they should be bonding with their newborn child. To illustrate that point further, I will share some testimony. A young mother from Belfast reached out to me in the past week when she saw that today's debate was coming up.”
“In the North, around 1,000 women each year will develop a severe postnatal illness, which can include postpartum psychosis, severe depression, anxiety and obsessive-compulsive disorder. Devastatingly, suicide is the leading cause of maternal death here, but with timely and appropriate care, such deaths are preventable. <BR /> <BR />I am thinking today about a particular family in my constituency of West Belfast who, tragically, have already experienced that type of loss. They lost a loved one to suicide not long after she gave birth to a baby. I try to put myself in that family's shoes and think about how they are feeling. As time passes, there is bound to be frustration about the lack of progress made on the establishment of the MBU.”
“Bringing a child into the world should be a time of joy, safety and dignity. It should mark the start of a hopeful new chapter in a mother's life, not one defined by fear, isolation or trauma. Sadly, however, for too many women in the North, that is not the reality. No mother should ever be separated from her baby in the days and weeks after birth, yet that remains the reality for women in our communities who experience acute perinatal mental illness. Those women are separated from their newborn babies and placed in general psychiatric wards. That is not compassionate care. Rather, it is a system that is failing women at their most vulnerable. <BR /> <BR />Let me be clear about the severity of what we are dealing with. One in five women will experience mental health problems during pregnancy or after birth. That is very common.”
“The motion calls for the urgent establishment of a dedicated mother-and-baby unit (MBU) here in the North of Ireland. It is about compassion, equality and the basic right of every woman to access the specialist care that she needs during one of the most vulnerable and transformative moments of her life. It is about ensuring that no mother ever again has to recover from birth in a psychiatric ward without her baby by her side.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. He is giving examples from around the rest of the island and in other countries. Has he been following the work of the citizens' assembly in the South on drug use and the issues surrounding it, and does he agree that we should harmonise across the island the outcomes in the Twenty-six Counties on the harm-reduction approach?”
“— we need to embrace evidence-based, public health approaches.”
“It is not about condoning drug use but facing the reality that people will take drugs in certain circumstances and that we need to make their doing that as safe as possible. <BR /> <BR />The Minister has often spoken about tackling stigma, and I completely agree with him on that. He is totally right that stigma will drive people into further harm, making it harder for families to get support. If we are serious about moving beyond stigma —”
“In response to a question recently, the Minister gave an update on NSPdirect, which is the confidential postal service that is now available. Those are all very important initiatives, and all those measures show what can be done and the difference that we can make to try to protect people. <BR /> <BR />Basically, the motion calls for additional drug-testing and drug-checking schemes. The important thing is to get real-time analysis, particularly at large scale-events where substances can circulate very quickly and the risk therefore increases. The motion also calls for a joined-up system that can identify dangerous substances within hours and issue alerts to protect the public.”
“I have spoken to the Minister and to his predecessor about the Queen's University pilot model that was put in place by the university, Forensic Science NI and the PSNI, all of which have been part of the discussions up to this point. Queen's University indicated that equipment for the rapid drug-testing pilot and the testing facility could be procured for a relatively modest capital investment of £220,000. Comparing that with hospital beds makes it clear that that investment is feasible. Some positive steps have been taken. Critically, the Public Health Agency has rolled out a nitazene testing-strip programme across all needle exchange sites and, more recently, it introduced fentanyl strips in areas where those drugs are most prevalent.”
“Yes, I do, and I thank the Member for that intervention. It is important that we pick up on that type of feedback, such as from that family, who, sadly, have already gone through that devastation. We absolutely need to put in place all the measures that we can to try to prevent those deaths. It was worrying to hear about that young person possibly not being transported to hospital in a timely manner. Training is critical. When we talk about introducing such schemes, we need to introduce them in the right way, and whoever is involved in that work needs to be required to have sufficient skills to deal with such a situation. Thank you very much for providing that wee bit of feedback, Jonathan. <BR /> <BR />We know that those models are already in place across Britain and in the South.”
“That is an important message that we need to get out to the members of the public who may be watching the debate. <BR /> <BR />The reality for those who choose to take a drug, at whatever stage in their life or in whatever circumstance, is that we are basically trying to provide a safety net that might mean the difference between life and death. Scotland has established a rapid action —.”
“Within hours, an alert was issued through the festival app to all attendees, preventing critical harm. That is the point of our motion: to try to prevent deaths by introducing some of those schemes. <BR /> <BR />That form of testing is referred to as back-of-house testing, where people can drop the drugs off anonymously. It enables the medical experts to see what is circulating and to act quickly, without exposing festivalgoers to criminal risk. That is what a public health intervention is, but the safest choice is not to take drugs. That is why I warmly welcome the DUP 's amendment, especially its first line. It is the most important amendment that could have been made to our motion, and I thank you for that. It points out how harmful and dangerous drugs are.”
“However, if we accept that as the unacceptable reality, we must also accept our collective responsibility to act. We need to try to do more and put more measures in place that might save lives. That is the context of the motion. We are calling for the introduction of rapid drug-testing and drug-checking services across the North. We do not need to look too far to see the benefits of such schemes. <BR /> <BR />The Health Service Executive's Safer Nightlife programme has been running successfully at the Electric Picnic festival in County Laois for four years. Festivalgoers can surrender substances for testing in a health-led, non-judgemental space. Last year, the system identified MDMA pills that contained three times the adult dose. Those were pills that were already causing seizures and admissions to hospitals.”
“Rapid drug testing is lab-based, confirms what is circulating more broadly in society and enables health authorities to issue alerts quickly across the community. Both are essential. One protects individuals in the moment, while the other protects the wider public. <BR /> <BR />In recent correspondence that we shared, the Minister acknowledged the issues and the difficult situation that we are faced with. Even as far back as the launch of the new substance use strategic plan last November, I think that it was, the Minister pointed out that deaths from drugs misuse are almost six times higher in the most deprived communities than in the least deprived areas. He pointed out that really important fact and described it as unacceptable, and he was completely right.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Department of Health's figures show that, in 2022-23, nearly 3,000 people across the North sought help for problems with drug or alcohol use. The detail is stark. More than a third were struggling with drugs alone, and over half were using drugs daily. They were not occasional users but people who were caught in the grip of addiction, living with risk every single day. That is why harm reduction measures, such as rapid drug testing and drug checking, are urgently needed. It is important to be clear about what we mean. Drug checking allows people to anonymously surrender substances at festivals or concerts for on-site analysis. Dangerous or contaminated pills can then be identified, and public warnings can be issued within hours.”
“Their message is always the same: many of these tragedies are preventable if we are willing to act. <BR /> <BR />In previous debates in the Chamber, we have discussed the Jack's Promise campaign by the Brennan family from Lenadoon in west Belfast and the specific issue of residential rehabilitation and providing services for people who are battling with addiction issues. We can pick that up in another conversation with the Minister of Health and his officials following today's debate. It is important, however, to illustrate that the scale of the crisis goes wider than people accidentally dying as a result of taking harmful drugs but encompasses wider drug use and addiction issues and the need for rehabilitation. The point is that we cannot underestimate the scale of the crisis.”
“Each year, young people across these islands attend festivals and concerts to celebrate music, community and joy, yet, too often, those events are overshadowed by tragedy, with lives being cut short due to the consumption of unregulated and dangerous drugs. Harm reduction initiatives, particularly rapid drug-checking services, have been shown to save lives. The question that is before us is not whether those schemes work, because they do, but whether we are willing to act with the urgency and compassion that are needed to bring them here. <BR /> <BR />Too many families across the North know only too well the devastation of losing a loved one to drugs. As Sinn Féin's spokesperson on suicide prevention, alcohol and addiction issues, I regularly meet families and community organisations who can see and feel the crisis up close.”
“At the heart of the motion in my name and those of my Sinn Féin colleagues is a simple but powerful principle: harm reduction saves lives. We are here today to discuss an issue that is not abstract but real, immediate and deeply human.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.”
“<BR /> <BR />Finally, I am really happy to support the Alliance amendment, which emphasises the importance of the overall women's health action plan, which is where we need to get to.”
“The Minister mentioned some of the pilot and the gynae robot, and a lot of that sounded really exciting and positive. We need to shift our focus to asking, "How do we move this on? How do we get more women seen to in a timely manner, and how do we try to make their life better so that they are not living in terrible pain on a daily basis?". <BR /> <BR />Another element of the motion is cross-border cooperation. I take on board the Minister's points about how we would assess need, viability and the positive outcomes of any all-island approach, if required, but I am pleased that he is open to maybe exploring the benefits of that. We can do a wee bit of work on that in the time ahead.”
“You could see that she got really frustrated that day because, as she said, nothing had changed since that time. She said, "I am listening to the same conversations and to women sharing the same stories — they are the same horror stories — and nothing has changed". I could sense the genuine frustration of a woman who has lived this and who felt that frustration that day listening to younger and older women. It stuck with me that there has not been a change in that number of years. <BR /> <BR />That is not to put that burden on our Health Minister, however, who is with us today. He has not held the post for the past 20 years. It is about focusing on how we move dealing with the matter on and how we can try to make women's life better.”
“Linda and Sinéad mentioned the fact that the APG on women's health held a round-table discussion back in March, I think that it was, which was Endometriosis Awareness Month. The Minister kindly sent some of his senior officials who have been heavily involved in the work on this. They genuinely listened to the speakers that day. Olivia, Cara and Anne have been mentioned. It was a brilliant event. We gave the floor over to the women there who had lived experience. <BR /> <BR />I took something that Sinéad said away with me that day. I do not know whether she mentioned it during or after the meeting, but she spoke about it in her speech today, so I am sure that she will not mind me referencing it. When I left that event, it stuck with me that Sinéad had said that she had lived experience of this 20-plus, or maybe close to 30 years, ago.”
“If you have a daughter, a younger sister, a child or another female close to you in your life, put yourself in their position. I know that people get this, and that is why a lot of work is being done on it. Hopefully, we are making a bit of progress. <BR /> <BR />One of the women who was living with the pain said that it was so severe that labour pains were easier than endometriosis pain. Any women who are watching this who have gone through labour and contractions will know the pain of that process. I have been through labour — thankfully, I do not have endometriosis — and, as a woman, I cannot imagine how any woman can live with that level of pain on a daily basis. I mean that. <BR /> <BR />Some of the women whom we heard directly from were spoken about.”
“That is all women. Most women will, obviously, go through a menstrual cycle, but living with endometriosis is an additional burden. <BR /> <BR />A couple of Members referenced the fact that we are talking about these issues as women's health issues. Let us think about the girls — the children. So many young girls are already battling with the condition and going through that unbearable pain. We are talking about schoolchildren who, in some circumstances, have to miss school because the pain is too much and they cannot get out of bed. Again, that brings it back to how unfair it is for a young girl to live like that, grow into a young woman and, potentially, still not have received a diagnosis or an appropriate care pathway eight, nine or 10 years later. My God. It does not bear thinking about.”