Órlaithí Flynn
West Belfast · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“<BR /> <BR />Parliamentary privilege is a complicated issue, but it is a very important one for all Members to understand. It was helpful to get Matthew's intervention on the fact that the repeal changes nothing for Members. It simply takes away the reference to privilege which never fully existed. I thank Matthew for his intervention.”
“My comments will be brief. As Deputy Chairperson of the Committee on Procedures, I welcome the opportunity to conclude today's debate on the motion to repeal Standing Order 70 and make a number of consequential amendments.”
“<BR /> <BR />I thank the Chairperson and members of the Committee on Standards and Privileges for undertaking a comprehensive review of Standing Order 70 and for bringing the outcomes of that work to the Committee on Procedures, with the recommendation to make the changes to Standing Orders.”
“I thank the Minister for that response. As you outlined, Minister, a key part of creating a more resilient road network is having the workforce to deliver it. We know that British austerity has severely impacted on our workforce in DFI, creating an over-reliance on contractors and driving up the cost of works as a result.”
“I support the motion, and I thank its sponsors. <BR /> <BR />For many people, the journey to becoming a parent is not straightforward. Whilst some conceive without difficulty, others face years of heartbreak, uncertainty and loss.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have learned that people often talk about IVF as though it guarantees a baby. Tragically, the reality is that that is not always the case. This is not the first motion calling for three cycles of IVF that we have debated.”
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“It does, absolutely, Harry. That is the intention of the great work that Safe Families carries out. Through that work, it has been able to connect 200 families back into their community. That is massive. Over 500 children now have a trusted adult in their life. It even helps the family unit. It helps wee kids before they maybe have to go to social services to get high-level interventions. That group prevents some of that by caring about people and helping them with their isolation and loneliness. At last week's briefing, they said that the volunteers do ordinary things that have extraordinary effects on families and outcomes. It can be something as simple as taking a mum for a coffee, helping her around the home or taking the kids to the park. One volunteer summed it up well:”
“Some members of Safe Families might be in the Public Gallery today. Their presentation to the Health Committee the other week was brilliant. The work that they do —.”
“It is just down to people struggling a wee bit and not having a bit of support, such as a listening ear, a person to take their kids to the park for 10 minutes or a person to let them get the house cleaned up. It is about having company and friendship.”
“<BR /> <BR />Harry mentioned some brilliant groups in his constituency. Colin mentioned Men's Sheds. I am sure that all of us can think of really good community groups that already do good preventative work with people on loneliness, but I will reference a group that briefed the Health Committee. It was our planning day last week, and one of the groups that came in to give us a briefing was the Safe Families project. That charity is currently working out of the Belfast Trust and the Northern Trust. It offers hope, belonging, support, comfort and friendship to some really vulnerable families and some families who are possibly on the verge of breaking up, where social services have to get involved. In a lot of cases, it is down to isolation and loneliness.”
“<BR /> <BR />Members have already mentioned mental health, but there are lots of linkages between loneliness and mental health problems and mental ill health, proper diagnosable mental illness. Sadly, we know that that all has a longer-term effect on the overall health system, health services and waiting lists. It is not about trying to dismiss someone who, as a result of loneliness, ends up with a mental illness or a physical illness, but the point is that that all has a knock-on impact on the Department of Health, our A&Es and our waiting lists for different physical health problems. Today's motion should be about preventing some of that, which would prevent a cost to the health service and all the Departments. The motion is linked to all the Departments, so they will have to get on board.”
“We need to get the strategy pulled together first to see the detail of what it will look like. <BR /> <BR />Robbie said that we are lagging behind other countries and parts of Britain that have already done this work and have a strategy up and running. We know that the rates of people who are battling loneliness are rising. Members have mentioned that there are people who feel lonely, and then there is chronic loneliness. Some of that can be really hard to live with for people. Colin talked about how social isolation can build up through people feeling anxious, and he said that one third of people feel shame around admitting that they feel lonely. It is so sad that so many people feel embarrassed and ashamed about speaking out to say that they are lonely and do not have people to speak to.”
“I say a big "Thank you" to Robbie and Claire for today's motion. It is another really important motion that we are debating in the Assembly. Hopefully, there will be cross-party support for a cross-departmental approach to a loneliness strategy that, importantly, is fully funded. It is not the fault of any individual Minister in the Executive, because we know how the budgets are, but there are problems with the 10-year strategy, the Protect Life 2 strategy and the substance use strategy. Those are all really important pieces of work, but they are in competition with one another for funding, and they would be in competition for funding with a loneliness strategy. However, we still need to pull this piece of work together and then try to prioritise the funding for it.”
“The Jack's Promise petition was presented to the Assembly in 2021. It now has over 4,000 signatures. Sadly, Jack's experience is not an isolated one, and it is arguably one of the most common experiences that families are currently facing, not just in Belfast but in every area of the country. <BR /> <BR />I will end my remarks by reading one of Jack's poems. Jack, God love him, wrote it before he went into rehab in Liverpool. The poem is so heart-breaking, and it is called 'The Days of My Life':”
“Jack was also from West Belfast. He had taken prescription drugs since he was 15 and, by the age of 21, was using heroin and suffered from mental health issues, alongside his drug use. Lorraine said:”
“Those are her mother's words: it was too late. <BR /> <BR />Lorraine Brennan's son, Jack, died from a drug overdose in 2021. She said that Jack needed help; he was crying out for help, but the services were not available. She stated that when he was brought to A&E:”
“It was heart-wrenching, her mother said, that, two weeks after Chloe died, she received an appointment for help. Mrs Lennon explained:”
“Outside of the meetings and the engagement, we need a firm commitment to deal with the rise in drug and alcohol deaths and to provide the resources to assist with doing that, and it is not an easy ask. <BR /> <BR />I will conclude by highlighting the calls from mothers in the Belfast area who attended the Stormont vigil a few months ago and who are making a direct plea for a rehabilitation unit in Belfast. <BR /> <BR />Chloe Lennon from West Belfast was 22 when she died from a drug overdose in November 2022. Her mother, Lorraine, told BBC News that her daughter had started taking drugs at the age of 13. She stated:”
“The People's Kitchen held a poignant demonstration last summer, when it laid out 212 pairs of shoes along the steps of Stormont to mark each life that has been lost to an overdose in 2021. <BR /> <BR />I am really pleased that the Minister has agreed to meet some families this Thursday, which is a coincidence as we are debating the matter today. I know that the Minister will meet and directly engage with families this week, and his officials have intently engaged with some of the bereaved families, which they appreciate — I know because I have been at some of the meetings — and they will also appreciate the direct conversation with the Minister on Thursday.”
“<BR /> <BR />I understand that the issue is cross-departmental and that each Department has a huge responsibility to address it, but I hope that, from the health perspective, the Minister can respond positively to the motion and support the calls that are coming from families who are sadly at the other end of the problem, with their loved ones having already died. Their lives have already been lost to drugs. My hope is that their voices can be heard loud and clear during today's debate. <BR /> <BR />The Jack's Promise campaign group has invited parents, siblings and friends who have lost loved ones to a candle-lit vigil that has taken place in the past couple of years on the steps of Stormont, in the mouth of Christmas, to highlight the empty seat they have at their Christmas table because their loved one has died.”
“People who fall through gaps in the health system, in education and across society sadly end up in jail with poor mental health and addictions. In our schools, children are now at huge risk. It has been reported in the news recently that vapes mixed with spice have made their way into the school community. Parents have been put on alert by the PSNI, which is warning that, for young people, it is an immediate concern. Every Department must make interventions to help with those critical issues. As the motion states, there is an intrinsic connection between poverty, deprivation, and drug and alcohol addiction, and that will also require a strong response from the Department for Communities through anti-poverty interventions.”
“The Minister is probably aware that a model is available through Queen's University at the minute. I know that budgets are tight and are squeezed, but if it were possible to get that model funded even for the first year in order to get it off the ground, its testing programme could provide a 24-hour turnaround that would confirm when dangerous or lethal drugs are in circulation on our streets. That would allow an alert system to kick in, similar to what happens in Dublin and parts of Britain. The Dublin model is used elsewhere. If we could introduce it here, in some form or at some level, it would save lives. <BR /> <BR />As the amendment implies, the issue requires Executive-wide support. During questions to the Minister of Justice yesterday, we heard about the pressure on our prison system.”
“It tears families apart, and we should not leave those families to deal with the additional burden of not knowing where to turn or where to send their loved ones when battling with that illness. <BR /> <BR />We talk about harm reduction and harm prevention. An overdose prevention facility is needed in Belfast. Throughout Europe, overdose prevention facilities have been successful in managing the number of overdose deaths. Of course, the ideal scenario is that people do not inject drugs, but if they are going to inject, it makes more sense for them to do so where it is safe and where trained staff can help them, monitor them and work with them, and if the worst happens and people overdose, they can reverse it. <BR /> <BR />Rapid drug testing is another initiative that will save lives.”
“They made multiple attempts to find an appropriate and accessible wrap-around residential rehab unit that could have taken in their loved ones during that small, precious window of opportunity when they were crying out for the help that they needed. <BR /> <BR />I in no way underestimate the excellent work that services provide and the brilliant and dedicated staff who work in addiction services at community level, at trust level or in primary care. We know, however, that the number of deaths has doubled over the past 10 years. That tells us that something, somewhere is not working. Too many people are dying an unnecessary death. Addiction is a disease, not a choice.”
“That figure alone makes a powerful argument for investing now to help people recover when they are battling with addiction. Investing in recovery can and will save people's lives. Again, I have no doubt that we have all heard many sad and heartbreaking stories from families who tried to get help for their loved ones before it was too late but failed. <BR /> <BR />The families with whom I have worked over the past number of years have told me that the reason that they failed in their desperate attempts to keep their loved one alive was the lack of available treatment options at that time of crisis. Families exhausted routes via their GP, via emergency departments and via community addiction teams.”
“It gives me no joy to bring forward this motion. It comes from a place of sadness and tragedy. For the past three years, I have worked with bereaved families from across the North, campaigning alongside them in the hope that we can secure additional resources to help people who are battling with addiction and to help to prevent or reduce harm, where possible. My time spent with those families has brought home the absolute devastation that drugs cause to families in all our communities. I doubt that any Members would struggle to think of a family whom they know personally, represent or have worked with who has not been, or is not, affected by the awful disease that is addiction. It costs our economy £1·5 billion a year.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle.”
“I thank the Minister for his response. The Minister expressed interest when there was an incident at the George Best Hotel in Belfast. In the context of a new Bill, does the Minister envisage any overlap with DFC on urban development and the use of other grants for vacant and derelict buildings and land?”
“I thank the Minister for her response. She mentioned a lot of working groups, the mental health champion and the strategies around mental health, substance use and Protect Life 2. Does the Minister agree that it is important that, rather than their existing just as pilots, we roll out across society pilots such as the custody suite in Musgrave and the multi-agency triage teams that bring together police, ambulance and mental health practitioners?”
“Thanks very much, Minister. Does the Minister agree with me that the active travel initiatives have positive mental health benefits for people, as well as benefits for physical health?”
“Cara also made an intervention on those bereavement services. Diane touched on that as well and spoke about the training for clinicians and the importance of the language that they use, because, as we have all said, it does not get any more emotive or personal than this. Therefore, if we can do any good from today's motion, let us do it. Thanks very much.”
“Following today's debate, if we can get the certificates over the line, then brilliant, but also, and this is outside Caoimhe's remit, if we could come together to try to make progress on the pathology service, it would make a massive difference to families who are going through the most unimaginable pain and trauma and are then having to travel. In the case that Linda mentioned, the family was separated from its wee baby, which is terrible. <BR /> <BR />I am sorry that I did not take notes when everyone was speaking, but I was listening to you all. Kellie's remarks in which she shared her experience were so powerful. Gary's comments really hit home with me too; thank you for that. Gary. Liz and Linda shared some personal accounts, and Mark spoke about the bereavement counsellor in his constituency and all the great work that she does.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is a huge additional pain and trauma to not have access to post-mortem services here in the North or across the island. My brain cannot imagine what a family goes through in those circumstances. First, they lose their wee baby, and then they do not have access to a post-mortem. I cannot imagine what that is like. The reinstatement of those services is separate from the Minister of Finance, but, judging from tonight's debate, it is an issue that all Members across the Chamber would like to pick up and see how we can support the Department of Health to, maybe, bring something forward. Mark said that not having the service, and the associated delays, were unacceptable, and Sinéad said that 800 families had been impacted since 2018. That really is not good enough.”
“There is still loads of stigma around the issue, so, when you can speak up, try to do it, because it helps. <BR /> <BR />I hope that today's debate has given some comfort to the many families who have been going through the trauma of baby loss and who, sadly, will continue to go through it. I am very conscious that every journey is different. The circumstances and timing of every baby loss and pregnancy are different; everything about each journey is different. Hopefully, no one feels offended, due to what their circumstances were. The point is that it is all out of love for the people who have gone through baby loss. With today's motion, we are trying to bring support and comfort through the certificates.”
“Gary spoke about his experience and talked about how you start bonding with a baby in early pregnancy and about all that self-blame. No matter how soon or how late you lose a baby in pregnancy, you still go through all the emotions and all the feelings. <BR /> <BR />I have spoken previously about my experience. The Assembly was not sitting at the time but, after my first round of IVF, we fell pregnant. I lost the pregnancy very early on. I was only eight weeks pregnant, but, even still, that was eight weeks of love, happiness and joy. Although it can be really hard to speak publicly, it is important to do that. I was terrified the first time that I did it and I was not even planning on doing it, but I did it with a wee bit of determination in the back of my head thinking that it might help someone else.”
“<BR /> <BR />For an issue that clearly has been felt by so many people, it has, historically, been overlooked for a really long time, If we can introduce certificates to acknowledge the loss of a wee baby before the 24-week period, that will be a brilliant initiative. Some of the groups have highlighted that certificates are only one option in trying to help support people after baby loss but that there are other issues around support services and education and awareness of the issues. <BR /> <BR />I have no doubt that it has been particularly difficult for the Members who told their personal stories. One of the first conversations that Kellie and I had in Stormont was before I had even started my IVF, and I still, to this day, appreciate Kellie's openness and kindness when she spoke about her own experience.”
“I sincerely thank every Member who has spoken during the debate. It has been said a few times, but it really does not get more personal than Members choosing to share their own wee bits of personal recollection and accounts of their experience of baby loss. It is an emotional debate for many Members. As Diane said, that is reflective of how emotional, how personal and how real this is for all the people we represent, because we are reflective of the communities that we come from. How the debate has gone across the Chamber is reflective of how people feel about these issues. Sadly, many, many people have been through it. We all know the importance of it, I am sure, having been through it ourselves or if a family member, a friend or a relative has. We all get the importance of it and the emotion around it.”
“I thank the First Minister for her answer and welcome the clear commitment to improved childcare provision for families in the North. Does the Minister agree that that provision must be affordable for parents and families and that any childcare solution that we look at needs to be bespoke and suit every family? Does the Minister agree about the importance of affordability?”
“Will the Minister provide an update on the high street task force?”
“I thank the Minister for his response and for his commitment to the project to date. He mentioned that he met the Hannahstown residents' association recently. I know that it might be difficult to answer it at this stage, but my follow-up question is this: can the Minister ensure that the scheme remains a priority for capital funding in the Department when it gets to the stage where that funding is required?”
“In the past, the Minister of Justice was supportive of different pilots and programmes for mental health, justice and health — there were pilots for custody suites and multi-agency triage teams — so I know that the will and the want is there, but she will need support from colleagues, particularly in the Department of Health, to take forward the detail in the motion.”
“It outlines how, back then, organisations across all stages of the justice system faced significant pressures as a result of the growing mental health needs among the general population. Just as the health system has found it challenging to respond to that huge growth, our justice system is now coming into contact with that increasing number of people who have not been able to access the key health and social care services that they need. <BR /> <BR />I hope that the motion will help support the Minister. It is for not just the Department of Justice but the Department of Education.”
“Speech and language therapists can enable people with mental health disorders to develop the skills that they need in order to access information about their condition and give them the ability to express themselves more effectively. Crucially, they can support the wider prison staff and multidisciplinary teams to communicate effectively with people who are battling those issues. <BR /> <BR />Due to the high prevalence of speech, language and communication needs and other complex needs in the prison population, it is important that the entire prison workforce is able to recognise those vulnerabilities and is equipped to deal with them when they arise. In 2019, our Audit Office published a report that was specifically about mental health in the prison system. That report is relevant to today's motion about speech and language therapists.”
“<BR /> <BR />Mental health difficulties alone can create communication problems for people. Even if someone does not have an existing speech, language or communication difficulty, a chronic or acute mental health episode can impair their ability to communicate with other people. Specific mental health conditions can have associated communication and swallowing difficulties. Those conditions include depression, schizophrenia, dementia and psychosis. There are also many people in prison with a primary mental health diagnosis who might also have dementia, a brain injury or other long-term conditions. That indicates, again, that there is a greater need for critical speech and language therapy support in that environment.”
“Unless they are identified and the people with them are properly supported, those needs will act as a barrier to people receiving appropriate referrals, assessments and treatment programmes. <BR /> <BR />Speech and language therapists working across the prison estate can help to support the identification of those needs, provide people with a proper diagnosis and train the workforce on the important links between mental health, speech, language, communication and swallowing needs, as well as on how to respond to those needs. I fully endorse calls made in previous reports into these issues to support prevention and early identification of mental health problems and to train the whole prison workforce to understand the links between speech, language, communication and mental health.”
“I am pleased to support the motion, which calls for enhanced support and training in our justice system to help support people with speech, language and communication difficulties. I am glad to see that the motion commends speech and language therapists for the great work that they do in prisons to support adults with those difficulties. Despite the statistic that shows the prevalence of those vulnerabilities — a couple of Members mentioned that more than 60% of the prison population are affected — and the growing number of people who come forward with complex mental and physical health needs, prison staff receive limited training about those vulnerabilities, including about speech, language and communication needs.”
“OK. To finish off, we recognise the impact on patients' mental and physical health, but we also know that being on a waiting list is having a massive impact on the lives of people who are watching this debate. On the amendment, any practical steps that we, the Minister and the Executive can take to help with waiting lists need to be made a priority for everyone. I support the motion.”
“Am I out of time, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker?”
“Absolutely it has. It is completely unfair to expect any family, especially families who do not have the means or finances, to have the additional pressure of paying to get their loved ones seen and treated for their healthcare.”
“We need a two-pronged approach to support people with both physical and mental health issues. <BR /> <BR />From stats on the waiting lists for adult mental health services, we know that those lists have almost doubled over the past four years. The number of young people who are waiting for access to CAMHS has tripled over the past four years. As someone mentioned, we need to make sure that it does not come down to people's personal finances in terms of how soon they can be seen or treated. We know that not everyone can afford it. The people who can least afford and pay for it are, sadly, those who live in our most deprived areas. Again —.”
“I thank the Member for the intervention. I completely agree. My next point was coming on to early intervention and how, in some avenues, we can get in more quickly with children to prevent them going on to different waiting lists for different issues when they grow into adulthood. The community and voluntary sector is critical to all that as well, so thank you very much for that. <BR /> <BR />It is important that people are provided with the right support at the right time. Regardless of whether you start with a mental illness or a mental health problem, the longer you have to wait to be seen will have an impact on your physical health, and, vice versa, if you are on a waiting list for a physical health problem and you have long delays in being seen, that can impact on your mental health.”
“<BR /> <BR />At the moment, child and adolescent mental health services (CAMHS) funding is approximately £20 million to £25 million per year, which is between 6·5% and 8·5% of the overall mental health budget. I know that, in the mental health strategy, the hope is to increase that percentage of the budget to 10%. I hope that that will be the case, because it will help with overall waiting lists. <BR /> <BR />The recent workforce review on mental health showed that we need almost 2,000 additional workers to provide adequate mental health services. Again, when we talk about an addition to funding for waiting lists, which is absolutely an immediate priority, we also need funding for additional training places and for our workforce. In mental health, that would be specifically for psychology and psychiatric services.”
“<BR /> <BR />The motion also refers to the fact that people need to receive that same-time access, regardless of their postcode or where they live. We all know that, at present, that is clearly not the case. The children's mental health story that was covered the other week shows how waiting times vary between trusts. Average waiting times went from five months in the Belfast Trust to fewer than nine weeks in the Southern Trust area. That is definitely an issue that we need to grapple with, because it is not fair. Some children wait years for mental health supports. The longest wait was in the Belfast Trust, where some children waited nearly two years. Obviously, in protecting our young people and looking out for children, those waits are just wrong, and no family or child should be that long on a waiting list.”
“I will speak in support of the motion and the amendment. We all know that the current situation with waiting lists is completely untenable for patients and for our staff. <BR /> <BR />Other Members mentioned cancer, domiciliary care, gynaecology and oral health, but we know that mental and physical health are intimately linked. Long waiting lists for mental health services are also unacceptable. Aside from elective care and physical health, poor mental health alone costs the economy here £3·4 billion each year. At any time, one in 10 of our children and young people are experiencing anxiety or depression. We heard recently — this was carried in the media last week or the week before — that 10,000 children sought mental health support last year and that a third of them were still waiting for their first appointment at the end of 2023.”
“Yes, of course. I will finish with a point about maternity services, as I cannot finish my speech without giving consideration to that. We need the women's health strategy, and, when Mary Renfrew has concluded her reports, we need a renewed maternity strategy. There have been shout-outs to some of the guests in the Public Gallery, and I want to mention the Community Foundation Northern Ireland and the grassroots women who are with them today: I look forward to working with them.”
“Those have caused much harm and hurt to women. There are the mesh, thalidomide and mother-and-baby scandals, as well as cervical smears, which have been spoken about. That is to name only a few. Those issues have massive impacts on the health and mental health of our women.”