Jonathan Buckley
Upper Bann · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Sinn Féin's representatives in the European Parliament voted against proposals aimed at strengthening the management of illegal immigration and facilitating the return of failed asylum applicants — those who entered countries illegally — to designated return hubs outside the European Union.”
“Last year, Sinn Féin, alongside the open-border brigade of the Alliance Party and the SDLP, voted against my motion in the Assembly that called for action to address concerns about illegal and uncontrolled immigration.”
“People want an immigration system that is controlled, credible and properly enforced whilst ensuring that the genuine, heartfelt, lived experience and concerns of local citizens are at the heart of the debate. That is not an unreasonable position to take.”
“I highlight yet another example of a political party claiming to represent the views of people across the island of Ireland yet taking a position that is fundamentally out of step with the concerns being expressed by a vast number of people across Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland and, indeed, the rest of the United Kingdom, and t…”
“The Minister is aware and is, in fact, on record as having suggested that organised drug crime is happening in prisons. I have previously raised that matter in the Assembly.”
“Minister, I am sure that you agree that we cannot continue to leave residents in limbo. There has to be some progress on the matter. A number of unfinished developments have been lying stagnant for a long time, but the number is so small that it would not require that great an amount of money to ensure adequate facilities for residents, e…”
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“I thank the Member for giving way. On that point, does he agree that it is vital that as much information as possible on the individual vaccines available is in the public domain?”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. We will all welcome the 12-month derogation period. I thank the Minister's officials, who helped to lobby for that very intervention. Does the Minister agree that now is the time — indeed, the Committee wrote to the Executive about this — to push for a mutual recognition agreement on medicines and medical devices by the new deadline of December 2021 to avoid a further cliff edge?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does he recognise that the main danger in this legislative consent motion is, in a sense, the Northern Ireland protocol. The Member can bash Her Majesty's Government, who put forward the protocol, but will he say that it was wrong that Members and parties in this House supported said protocol? In this instance, it pertains to medical devices and equipment, but will he acknowledge the damaging impact that it could have on a variety of sectors?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. She strikes the right tone when she says that we are all being lobbied about getting grants out to those who in the most need as quickly as possible. However, does she accept that the actions of some in her party in terms of the misuse of public money, when we saw COVID grant money going to non-elected and elected officials within Sinn Féin's constituency offices, have meant that significant checks and balances have had to be applied, which has sadly meant a slowing down in the time to get grants out?”
“While we have learnt a lot about COVID-19, its effects and how to treat it, we must move on in how we respond to that. Lockdowns are not always the simple answer. The House must take their significant side effects into account.”
“On that very point, the Member will understand that there is a lot of scepticism. Indeed, there is anger about the side effects of lockdown. Professor Jack Lambert, the leading infectious diseases expert in the Republic, who leads an Irish doctors' group, presented a "white paper" to the Government. It states:”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I will not labour the point, but many gym users and owners would like to have a conversation about whether there is a way forward that could allow gyms to reopen in a safe and compliant manner to ensure physical and mental well-being.”
“— for whom it is not financial; it is mental and physical well-being that is the concern.”
“I do not want to stray, but I have spoken to many gym users. I had correspondence from a nurse who finds that the gym is the only place that she can take care of her mental and physical well-being. I understand where some are coming from, but there are many gym users and gym owners across Northern Ireland —”
“I thank the Member for giving way. He has passionately articulated that point at the Committee. Does the Member agree that one of the increasingly difficult parts to justify in relation to the delay in regulations coming to the Committee and the House is the fact that, for example, on a Thursday when the Health Committee meets, we have a situation where new regulations will come in on the Friday morning? That results in a communication breakdown as to what should apply and what has previously applied.”
“Does the Member agree with my call and, indeed, the Committee's call for dialogue between the Minister and the Department and gym businesses and attendees to ensure that we can find physical and mental well-being in the winter months?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I totally agree with her about the need to focus on children's physical activity to ensure their mental and physical well-being. Does the Member for South Antrim concur with me that it is also important that we look at the adult population's mental and physical well-being in relation to the restrictions? I think particularly of the many thousands of gym attendees across the Province at the moment. For many of them, their only form of exercise is in a gym setting. With the onset of winter, dark nights and, indeed, adverse weather, sometimes, that gym setting is the only way in which they can get physical exercise.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Does he agree that, whilst COVID-19 demands a lot of prioritisation from the Minister's Executive colleagues and, indeed, the Department of Education, it is still important that Departments continue to bring forward important existing priorities?”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. This will no doubt cause a lot of concern for patients across the Southern Trust. I welcome the establishment of a public inquiry to ensure public confidence, and I reiterate my call to ensure that its chair is independent of the Southern Trust and, indeed, of all the health and social care trusts. <BR /> <BR />Does the Minister agree that there is a need to look back further and examine Dr O'Brien's entire 28 years at the Southern Trust and in private practice? The review group looked at the time between 1 January 2019 and 30 June 2020, so there is a need to examine his entire time at the Southern Trust. Will the Minister outline whether he anticipates any further disciplinary or police action in relation to Dr O'Brien's actions?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I am glad to see that he is back in the Chamber and in good health following that procedure. However, research by the British Heart Foundation has found that 41% of heart patients throughout the United Kingdom had a planned test or surgery postponed because of lockdown. Will the Member accept that, while it may have been the case that he got an appointment, for many others, sadly, that has not been the case?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. He has previously mentioned the need for test, trace and isolate. There have been reports that, in Scotland, a target of 2,000 contact tracers has been set, yet, for Northern Ireland, the last figure that we got was around 200. Does the Member agree that there needs to be a plan to scale up the service in Northern Ireland?”
“Thank you, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. I will apologise if that is how that sounded, but it certainly was not the intention. I meant that, in the general thrust of the debate, we have to look at other serious illnesses, not just COVID. I know that the Minister has concerns about that as well, as he has said at meetings of the Health Committee.”
“— because of failed treatment on other issues.”
“We want you to succeed, but we do not want you to be the Minister who is responsible for excess deaths —”
“I truly believe that we need to learn to coexist with the virus, and increasing the capacity in our health service and ramping up the test-and-trace service is vital for that. We need to build resilience and health service capacity and roll out the mass testing for NHS and care staff. We know that, while the restrictions can help reduce the R rate, the virus is still getting through. <BR /> <BR />In closing, Minister Swann, I want you to succeed in your job. I want this country to succeed in its approach and fight against COVID, but it will not succeed if we continue on a path that prioritises COVID over other illnesses. We only need to look at cancer, heart disease, strokes, mental health and children at risk.”
“<BR /> <BR />We approach these difficult decisions with the caveat that we know there is no easy answer. However, there needs to be a strategic assessment of the impact this will have on other health services. We are immensely grateful for the efforts being made by our NHS and care staff in the most difficult of circumstances. Many staff are personally aggrieved at having to down tools to redirect their time to COVID pressures. We owe it to them, collectively as a House — and, indeed, to the Minister — to urgently work on workforce planning and give them the additional support and resource that is needed to reduce in-work pressures and maximise the capacity of our health service.”
“An extra 10,000 people were waiting for a diagnostic test in June in comparison to the same month last year. Research by the British Heart Foundation found that 41% had a planned test, surgery or procedure postponed during the UK lockdown. Between March and October, almost 13,000 elective appointments throughout the trusts were cancelled. <BR /> <BR />The tragic reality is that, so far in 2020, cancer deaths are increasing. Sadly, the number of suicides is increasing as well. COVID and non-COVID patients alike deserve a continuity of care, and they need certainty about their pathways to treatment or surgery. There is a genuine concern about the impact that reallocating some staff to fight COVID will have on routine services, including elective care and red-flag surgery, long after this crisis has subsided.”
“I thank the Member for his point. There is no doubt that there are differences of opinion among our health professionals. Staff on the front line are worried about the damaging impacts that some lockdown situations have caused. The impact of lockdown measures on health and social care services has had a profound and serious impact on the detection and treatment of routine illnesses. <BR /> <BR />Between 1 March and 12 September, the number of patients found to have cancer was 23% lower than the average for the previous two years. Urgent suspected cancer referrals dropped by more than 50%. It is a particular concern that people with suspected lung cancer symptoms delayed going to their GPs because the symptoms are so similar to those of COVID. There is a fear there.”
“That is six months before people with a potential cancer diagnosis are being seen by a specialist.”
“I am sorry to say that that is not true. The common enemies affecting the health service still exist: cancer, cardiac illness, poverty, children at risk, domestic violence and suicide; and I could go on. There is a plethora of issues, and the Committee is all too aware of the effects that the current restrictions and lockdown have on these specific sectors. <BR /> <BR />Earlier, I mentioned a letter that I received from a GP operating in the north Antrim area. A part of it merits quotation:”
“I thank the Committee for agreeing this motion, and I am happy to add my support to it. <BR /> <BR />Plenty of accusations have been made in the House of political point-scoring, from whatever side of the argument or debate, on how best to approach COVID. Let us approach this in the spirit of the Chamber being a safe place, as I believe it should be, to debate legitimately held views and alternative ways of approaching COVID. This is not a political issue, but it is personal. I imagine that it is personal for every single Member. Much focus has been directed at the economic effects, but the Principal Deputy Speaker knows my sincerely held beliefs about the effects of lockdown not only on the economy but on the health service. <BR /> <BR />Earlier, the Health Minister's statement referred to COVID as the one common enemy.”
“The Minister will understand how critical it is to get funding out to sports clubs as soon as possible, and I welcome the announcement that that will happen at the end of this month or at the start of next. We know that COVID relief funding will not be enough to sustain a lot of clubs, given the serious pressures that they have. With that in mind, will the Minister give an update on the progress of the subregional sports stadia funding and the need to ensure a regional balance to that funding?”
“What grieves me most is what has been missed during the lockdown period. The register for general quarterly statistics shows that cancer deaths to date are 3,490. Minister, can you update the House on the establishment of a regional cancer reset cell to oversee the resumption of cancer services to give patients some certainty in the days ahead?”
“Sadly, I found myself doing that this week not in relation to COVID but in relation to cancer. A GP from north Antrim wrote to me on Saturday saying:”
“Please be assured that this question is not political but is, indeed, personal, as it is, I am sure, for many Members. The Minister's statement says:”
“I thank the Member for giving way. She addresses acutely the point about the crisis that many working poor face. Does she agree that, albeit the lure is to quit their job and become unemployed to follow the legal aid route, the fact that they want to have the ability to break free from coercive control by controlling their own life and family budget is testament to their courage? The fact is that they cannot access fair and adequate treatment from the state in legal aid while those coercive partners try to take them to court to take from them everything that they hold dear.”
“I thank the Member for giving way and for his particular reference to my constituent's case. I have listened to what the Member has said and seen what the Committee has done on the Bill. I thank the Chair of the Justice Committee and the Member for giving her the opportunity to speak to them and tell her story. She has been empowered by the actions that have been taken by the Justice Committee. <BR /> <BR />Does the Member agree that the continual attempts to bring her and her family through the courts affected the young lady not only financially but psychologically? They financially crippled her in such a way that her grandmother had to give up so much to ensure that the young lady could keep her family together. I thank the Member for his comments on the case.”
“I am sure that the Member for Strangford will agree with my question, as great minds think alike. I know that the Minister will agree that urgent action is required, given the seriousness of the issue, the length of time since the Gillen review and the fact that some of its important recommendations will require specific legislation. Can she give us an absolute guarantee that she will bring the miscellaneous provisions Bill to the House before the end of the mandate?”
“Minister, is it the case that the public and, indeed, front-line healthcare workers are having to bear the cost of a failure by a Department to manage and meet its objectives and to implement a detailed surge plan. In the light of Dr Scally's comments, will the Minister invite an external public health expert to conduct a five-day review of the Department's plan and offer a prognosis?”
“Probably most concerning of all, he implied that, if a public health expert got five days in the Department, they would take it by the scruff.”
“I understand the pressures facing both the Minister and the Department, but I take issue with his comments that for anybody to raise those issues and concerns in the Chamber is to be political. We do so out of real concern for patients, front-line staff and healthcare workers. <BR /> <BR />I am not the only one with concerns. Today, Dr Gabriel Scally, a professor of public health and planning and a member of the independent Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) committee, stated:”
“In that spirit, Minister, does this build confidence in people who are looking towards how a potential COVID-19 vaccination programme would be implemented across Northern Ireland?”
“First, I put on record my sincere thanks to the doctors and nurses who have been implementing a very successful flu vaccination programme to date. We have all seen in our community the level of organisation required. <BR /> <BR />I came to the Chamber with considerable concern about what is going on in the Department and the PHA. This morning's statement from the PHA said that the demand for vaccine has resulted in a "temporary pause" in the supply of vaccine for eligible people under the age of 65 and that additional controls were in place to ensure fair distribution to all GP practices across Northern Ireland. Dr Gerry Waldron, the PHA's head of health protection, said that he regretted that some flu clinics had had to be cancelled. That is in stark contrast to what the Minister is saying in the House today.”
“The deputy First Minister talks about injecting honesty into the debate. However, she failed to mention the fact that her position on Sunday was a fair compromise. Only she can answer why that changed on Monday. <BR /> <BR />In the spirit of looking forward, I welcome the statement, as, during the crisis, it gives clarity on dates for businesses, in particular for working families, who have borne the brunt of some of the restrictions. The deputy First Minister and the First Minister have talked about coexisting with the virus, so I want to ask this: what work is going on with businesses to ensure that, when businesses reopen, they do so in a safe and compliant manner?”
“The First Minister will be acutely aware of the devastating impact that COVID-19 has had on our care homes across Northern Ireland. On 12 October, there were 46 care homes with COVID-19 outbreaks, yet, on 12 November, that number had risen extraordinarily to 143, all at a time when hospitality and close-contact services were closed. While we know that testing is one of the best answers to combat the spread, can the First Minister outline what conversations she had with counterparts at the British-Irish Council about ways in which we can ramp up our test and trace capabilities?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. On the topic of corporation tax, does the Member think that it is fair to describe a policy that could have brought thousands of jobs to Northern Ireland as a strategy of "filling your boots"?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does he agree that, while many in the House call for more robust scrutiny, more conversations and more discussions in this place to discuss the regulations, when opinions contrary to those of the Chief Medical Officer and the Chief Scientific Adviser come to the fore, they simply want to dismiss them out of hand without giving them due consideration?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I understand his point about the significance of the Chief Medical Officer and the Chief Scientific Adviser and health officials, but will he accept that, because of the radical speed with which we are putting the regulations through, other voices matter and should be considered? Today, four leading clinicians in Northern Ireland said that the regulations were not, as they saw it, in the best interests of defeating the virus. Important as those voices are, we as elected representatives must take cognisance of all the opinions and come to an informed decision.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I agree with his vein of thought. Does he agree that one of the most frustrating parts of the evidence supplied by the Chief Scientific Adviser and others is that it is modelling based on behaviour as opposed to transmission and infection rates in the settings that he talked about? Hair salons and beauty therapists, for example, that put measures in place so that they could safely admit their clientele had no transmission rate. Yet, because of a behaviour modelling approach, they were branded as a potential cause of transmission and forced to close.”
“Moving forward, the duty is on Ministers to account for that.”
“We have a duty of care to those people, and the challenge now facing the Department of Health is to demonstrate what has driven that outcome and how the data justifies the restrictions that are put in place and the actions that we take. <BR /> <BR />Households and businesses have had to make great sacrifices. Their consent and cooperation should never be taken for granted but earned and respected by us, the politicians. That means scaling up the evidence base for every rule and regulation and rationally setting out why they are necessary. In the past three weeks, more scientific evidence has been published indicating transmission risks in various settings. For sectors such as close-contact retail, as I have outlined, those figures alone do not stack up to the need for wholesale closure.”
“I am keen to hear from the junior Minister or from the Health Minister, who may be listening from another place, an assessment of the scale of the problem and whether patients may be at risk of tragically passing away because inpatient care is not available. Ultimately, nobody should be turned away, regardless of whether a person is coming to hospital urgently or the attendance is planned or whether it is for a COVID or non-COVID service or COVID or non-COVID care. The Minister claims that that is simply not feasible in the current climate, but I again urge him and his officials to explore all options for expanding the health service workforce.”
“That is not a strategy that the House should endorse. We should see the evidence. We should discuss and debate it in this institution and go forward with a cohesive plan. <BR /> <BR />The issue of non-COVID patients is really starting to come home to a lot of Members across the Chamber and, indeed, the people of Northern Ireland. Every restriction has a consequence, and some consequences are more hidden than others. I ask the Health Minister how the needs are being met of hundreds of non-COVID patients across Northern Ireland who would currently be in hospital but are not, as a result of the pandemic. Since the middle of October, the number of hospital beds occupied by patients with non-COVID illness has dropped dramatically by between 800 and 900 beds. That is according to the Department of Health's own dashboard.”
“You have told me that financial support will be forthcoming. Here I am, two and a half weeks into the regulations, and I do not know how I can pay my mortgage bills. I have four children to feed; I do not know how I am going to feed them". All the talk in the media about restrictions and how they can help bring the R rate down must be looked at through the lens of balance when determining the approach. That is why I said at the Committee and repeat here that, much as I respect the Chief Medical Officer and hold him in high regard, it is not appropriate for him to go on the air waves and talk about how one sector cannot open unless the other sector closes, with those sectors being hospitality and education. Whether intentional or not, that simply sets communities and sectors against each another.”
“It should have been given first, so that people could make an informed decision about why it is affecting their lives in the way that it is. Those are basic principles that the Executive need to take into consideration as we try to fight the virus. <BR /> <BR />I also want to talk about the exit strategy. Maybe the junior Minister can elaborate on it. If it is the case that it is "lockdown and repeat" until a vaccine comes, I worry for the state of the economy and for the livelihoods of everyday people across the Province and the country. Each time we decide to place restrictions on certain sectors and individuals, we run the risk of those businesses never returning. I had a constituent on the phone to me in deep hysterics on Thursday past: "You have asked me to close my business.”