Deborah Erskine
Fermanagh and South Tyrone · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Minister, you did not mention the removal of the zero-detriment policy, which is a concern that I have. That is worrying for anybody who sits in the Chamber, and for the construction industry in particular.”
“I thank the Minister for his comments about the Western Trust's chair. I, too, pass on my sympathies to his family. <BR /> <BR />Minister, we had the pause to the emergency general surgery consultation process last July. You asked the trust to provide a vision plan.”
“Quality assurance is really important when looking at roads. A number of us in the Chamber could take you to potholes that we have raised with the Department that have been fixed but have then reopened within a matter of days, meaning that we have had to go back into the portal to raise it with DFI staff again.”
“I thank the Minister for her statement and hope that she enjoyed her visit to Enniskillen. The statement mentions moorings. I want to focus on the Fermanagh end of the Ulster canal. I have received communication about accessible jetties and ensuring that jetties and moorings are up to standard.”
“<BR /> <BR />That was laid bare last Wednesday when representatives from the ICRIR said that they had written to the Irish Government 11 or 12 times without receiving any form of reply from them. That is shameful.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is interesting that, for years, Sinn Féin has called on the UK Government to provide information, yet its silence on the Irish Government is deafening. There are people who sit in the Chamber who know exactly the truth about what happened, yet they are prepared to lie about their involvement in the IRA.”
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“Even in primary care, we need to ensure that GPs and other front-line health staff are trained and have a better understanding of the toll that those conditions take from an early age, so that the right care and treatment can be provided to the women and girls who are affected.”
“Clear metric indicators are needed for measuring success, and strong levels of accountability need to be built in. That is even more important if the strategy has a lifetime of three, five or 10 years, to make sure that it does what it says on the tin. <BR /> <BR />We must ensure that a strategy also complements any forthcoming anti-poverty strategy, prevention of violence against women and girls strategy and any other health strategy, so that there is no divergence in policy. Ultimately, a women's health strategy for Northern Ireland will succeed only if there is wholesale buy-in from our communities, healthcare professionals and women themselves. The stigma that is sometimes associated with menopause and endometriosis must be addressed.”
“<BR /> <BR />We know that a women's health strategy is in place in England and that there is a women's health plan for Scotland, and it is my understanding that Ministers are in the process of producing a similar document in Wales. Northern Ireland should not be left behind in identifying the issues and tackling them head on. Furthermore, it is important that any women's health strategy does not fall victim to the pitfalls elsewhere. We need to take account of our unique position in Northern Ireland and the role that our health trusts, education system and the councils can play, as well as that which our community and voluntary sector can play, providing a vital role in our communities, and particularly in deprived communities. It is crucial that we do not raise expectations only to have an eventual strategy fall flat.”
“It must be pointed out that, without adequate health support, women can often find themselves in need of extra time off work and, in severe cases, having to leave the workforce altogether. Simple intervention and support within our medical professions and workforces could prevent that from happening. The duty is not just on the Health Department; it is a cross-departmental issue, and I am glad that the motion points to that cross-departmental element. <BR /> <BR />There is a need for women and girls in Northern Ireland to have better, more accurate and more timely information to support their needs as they face these challenges. It is simply unacceptable that women face crippling anxiety and sleepless nights because of being forced to do their own research to figure out how to access the right support.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, hopefully, I will get some latitude as well. I congratulate you on your new role. I also congratulate the Minister. I am not sure whether he is glad or sad that I am off the Health Committee. I will let him decide. <BR /> <BR />I thank those who tabled the motion for shining a spotlight on this very important issue. It is undeniable that women and girls have lifelong health needs and risks that are not the same as those of men. That includes managing periods and menopause symptoms and being uniquely predisposed to chronic conditions such as heart disease, particular forms of cancer and diabetes. That is why I am glad that the amendment specifically mentions the gender gap in cardiovascular outcomes. <BR /> <BR />We must not forget the extra financial cost to women of managing periods and menopause symptoms.”
“I thank the Economy Minister for coming to the Chamber this evening, and I take the opportunity to congratulate him on his new role. Potentially losing 300 jobs from Enniskillen is hugely significant to my constituency, given the large proportion of workers employed by BT Group in Fermanagh and South Tyrone. I regret that the Minister has not said anything publicly about that until this evening. He can correct me if I am wrong. Will he commit to doing everything possible to stop those job losses? For example, if BT needs smaller premises as part of its consolidation, will he continue to work with Invest NI and other bodies to find such premises and make sure that BT Group remains part of the local economy in Enniskillen?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I mentioned the Strategic Investment Board and, indeed, other Members have mentioned that, in fact, it is under the Executive Office, which I know. That also points to the fact that there needs to be a cross-departmental element to looking at planning.”
“During my contribution, I mentioned the PAN in 2021. I had extreme concerns with that. Will the Member acknowledge that it would have caused significant harm to the countryside? As I said in my speech, by setting that out, I intend to make sure that we have a flexible approach, making sure that rural areas are protected in planning and not constrained by it.”
“My colleagues on these Benches and I acknowledge the work undertaken to date by the Department for Infrastructure through its planning improvement programme. <BR /> <BR />While my remarks are made as a Fermanagh and South Tyrone MLA today, I look forward to working with my Committee colleagues, the Minister and officials to really make a difference in this area.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. Yes, transparency is at the heart of this, to ensure that people have access to all the information that they need in to fully come to decisions. <BR /> <BR />It is worth clarifying that, in the motion, we are not proposing yet another wholesale review of the planning service. Reports such as the Northern Ireland Audit Office (NIAO) report in February 2022 and the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) report have found that the current planning system is not working effectively. Instead, I urge the Minister to appraise the current situation in the planning service, identify the key needs and address them in the context of the many reports that have made clear recommendations.”
“To have buildings that are future-proofed and that work for our communities, we must ensure that policies match the needs of our residents and investors. <BR /> <BR />Some of the ways in which planning could be reformed in Northern Ireland are streamlining the local development plan process and a more collaborative approach in the planning system between the public and private sectors to create better outcomes, which would create better transparency in the planning process. For example, there is concern that the interim Regional Planning Commission does not represent those who engage daily with the planning system. I ask the Minister to outline the commission's terms of reference and the work done to date. We must also ensure that those involved in planning are skilled to meet the demands and support them in that work.”
“Funding is key to unlocking some of the issues, and greater cross-departmental working is needed to solve them. Indeed, the role of the Strategic Investment Board (SIB) could be greater in ensuring that key strategic government projects are delivered in time and are not held up through planning delays. <BR /> <BR />Planning will also be key to achieving our net zero and decarbonisation ambitions in Northern Ireland, with the installation of renewable zero-carbon technologies and infrastructure. Are we yet in a place of having streamlined our planning approach to that? I am not sure that we are. Again, work will have to be done to ensure that all strands of government work together and deal with the real challenges, such as investment in our water and sewerage network.”
“<BR /> <BR />I was shocked to read recently of the pressures that are faced in the Planning Appeals Commission (PAC), which I would have considered to be one of the key spokes in the planning wheel. It cannot be right that the PAC is forced to commit almost all its resources to a single case, meaning that many other significant projects are held back. I understand that many investors face internal competition to come to Northern Ireland, so the prospect of a long waiting list, should they need to avail themselves of the PAC, does not inspire confidence. I am aware that, between 1 January and 31 May 2023, only 3% of appeals determined by the PAC were within its target timelines. <BR /> <BR />I want to work constructively with the PAC and others to understand its needs and how we can do things more effectively.”
“During the past two years, the previous DUP infrastructure spokesperson, Phillip Brett, engaged with stakeholders and worked on a policy paper regarding the planning system and the need for reform. When we talk about significant foreign direct investment coming into Northern Ireland alongside growing our indigenous SME base, we must think carefully about how planning can facilitate those critical outcomes. Too often, however, we are regaled with stories and complaints from stakeholders with a common theme: planning in Northern Ireland is not fit for purpose. That has been reflected in several reports: it must therefore be a priority for change.”
“<BR /> <BR />We need a planning service that understands the needs of the countryside and its inhabitants. We face challenges with keeping young people in their home communities. Planning should be there to support that, not aid in driving them away. It is important that Ministers understand the challenges and the unique nature of rural villages and do not seek to bring into force dangerous and concerning legislation, such as was the case in 2021, with the planning advice note (PAN) on countryside development that Minister Mallon sought to introduce in 2021 and on which she later reneged. <BR /> <BR />I recognise that there is also clearly a need for balance between development and protecting our green spaces, which are one of our greatest assets.”
“As the Chair of the Assembly's new Infrastructure Committee, I fully expect the subject of the motion to be one of the bread-and-butter issues in the months ahead. At the outset, however, I make it clear that any comments that I make during the debate are made solely in my capacity as DUP MLA for Fermanagh and South Tyrone, not as Committee Chair. <BR /> <BR />Like many colleagues in the Chamber, I first saw day-to-day planning concerns while I was a councillor on Fermanagh and Omagh District Council. You will appreciate that many of the issues related to rural matters and were very different to those that were seen by some of my urban colleagues in the Chamber. Many of the frustrations are the same, however, including length of time for applications and feedback etc.”
“I congratulate the Minister, who has been put in the infrastructure role, and, as the Committee's newly appointed Chairperson, I look forward to working with him. The Committee has not yet formally conducted its first meeting. I am sure, however, that potholes will be one of our priorities going forward and that there will be a lot of discussion about them. <BR /> <BR />I have no doubt that the constituencies of Members across the House are full of pothole issues. What is the extent of the growing backlog to which the Minister has referred? How much resource does the Department consider it needs to achieve and deliver good maintenance practices for the road network?”
“You did not say that the first time. As I understood it, you said that the protesters would still be there. The protesters will move outside the safe access zone, but they will still be there.”
“The Member talks about the fact that the Bill will allow people to move without fear of protest. Does he accept that the legislation will mean that protesters will be displaced elsewhere, so it will not do what he is indicating?”
“Such actions are malicious and can be reasonably regarded as being criminal in nature. However, it is an oversight that there has not been more engagement with the Department of Justice on the legislation. The best way of dealing with the issue may have been to look at our current harassment laws and strengthen them. <BR /> <BR />The police will have difficulty in enforcing the legislation, and therefore I raise questions yet again. In particular, why is the legislation going through today, considering that it will be difficult to enforce? That will help no one, and it will certainly raise the expectations of those who will expect it to work for them. Given my previous opposition to the Bill, it will come as no surprise that my party and I are against the Bill.”
“I felt that it was important that we listened to those concerns. It is a small minority of people who have created such situations, and it is important to point out that it is wrong to tar everyone in the pro-life community or even pro-life advocates involved in mainstream protest activity as people who are abusers or who harass people. During some of the debates, it seemed that, if you are against abortion, you harass people, you are someone who shows distressing imagery and you are against women. That parallel is wrong. It is important to call that out today. I utterly condemn actions that have furthered no cause but that of causing distress and harassment, which, unfortunately, have been carried out by a small minority of individuals in the vicinity of these settings.”
“Not least, I wonder if businesses will know that a safe access zone will be enforced close by. I wonder if that will deter the public from entering such public spaces due to worry or concern. <BR /> <BR />I recognise that there have been awful incidents that have deeply upset people, including staff, and I know that there have been incidents in which protesters have met with abuse. We cannot dispute that staff and those entering premises should be free from intimidation and attacks, but it is also important to remember that we must strike a balance in relation to freedom of speech, which is enshrined in law. Again, I point out to the House such wonderful organisations as CARE and Both Lives Matter and, indeed, the Churches that have submitted evidence to the Committee with concerns about how the legislation will work in practice.”
“I will be brief, as I have made my comments clear both in the Committee and in the Chamber during the various stages of the Bill. It will come as no surprise to hear that I am against the Bill. I fundamentally believe that it is poor legislation and will be difficult to enforce on the ground. I also place on record again that my voting on the issue has been consistent and clear. <BR /> <BR />If we all took a step back in relation to the legislation, I do not think that there would be anybody who would not agree that there are things that still need to be ironed out but have not been, due to the rushed-through nature of the legislation. We have not had the time that we might have had, had it not been for time constraints, to fully engage with other organisations.”
“I pay tribute to those who gave evidence to the Health Committee and who helped us to scrutinise the Bill. <BR /> <BR />I will be supporting the Bill and I thank the Bill sponsor for all her work on it.”
“<BR /> <BR />I want to place on record my hope that the concerns that I raised at the Bill's earlier stages about its outworkings are ironed out, that the Bill will operate for the benefit of all and that its intent is fully realised. Therefore, I press the Department for Infrastructure and the Department of Health to put in place mechanisms to support better public transport availability to hospital settings and to deal with capacity issues. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Bill sponsor for her engagement with the Health Committee on the Bill. I hope that she feels that the Health Committee's scrutiny was constructive. Furthermore, I want to thank the Bill Clerks for their work, as well as the Department of Health officials and the Minister, for his amendments.”
“<BR /> <BR />I hope that the passage of the Bill today will go some way towards showing our healthcare staff that they are valued and that they will not have to pay for the privilege of parking their car at work. We still have an awful lot to do — I am sure that the Minister realises that — in relation to workforce pressures and on ensuring that our workforce is better supported. I hope that today is a step in the right direction. <BR /> <BR />It is important that ill patients do not have to worry about the costs incurred in having to attend hospital settings weekly or even daily. Often, that can be too heavy a burden for patients and their families to bear when they are already anxious. It is important that they, too, have that support in place.”
“This is a significant Bill, which will be well-received by the staff of our hospital settings and those extremely ill patients who attend them. I want to thank the Bill sponsor for bringing the Bill forward. She came into the Assembly around the same time as I did, and she followed her predecessor Fra McCann, who introduced the Bill. <BR /> <BR />In the Health Committee today, we spoke to the Minister about the workforce pressures and stresses that our amazing healthcare staff are facing. We also spoke to the representatives of the health trusts and the Royal College of Nursing, who gave us stark warnings about the workforce pressures that are facing staff in our healthcare settings in Northern Ireland every day.”
“As this is the Minister's last Question Time, I wish him well in the election, and, hopefully, after the election, we will welcome him back to Fermanagh and South Tyrone. <BR /> <BR />In my constituency, we have welcomed a lot of stay-at-home tourism as a result of the COVID restrictions. While we want to promote Northern Ireland as a place to visit from other countries, how can we also capitalise on that stay-at-home tourism and support the sector to do that, particularly in my beautiful constituency?”
“I will take this opportunity to thank the Minister for the support that he has given to local businesses in my constituency of Fermanagh and South Tyrone. The Minister talked about trade missions. Most recently, he visited New York, Maryland and Washington DC to meet US investors. The US is clearly our most important FDI market. Will the Minister share what issues were raised with him? What are the key factors for those who are thinking of investing in Northern Ireland?”
“That will give trusts greater flexibility to plan, to mitigate the risks of any new system and, potentially, to look at options for enhancing parking provision, which will inevitably be needed. It would be interesting to know whether the two-year lead-in time is in part influenced by the duration of contractual obligations for current private parking or whether it is for dealing with capacity issues; it could be both. We will support amendment No 3, as it reflects the changes ushered in by amendment Nos 1 and 2. <BR /> <BR />I hope that that sets out not only my concerns but my overall support for the Bill and its intentions. I sincerely hope that, in practice, it will work for our hospital sites and for the betterment of all.”
“I will outline briefly why my party and I will support the Minister's amendments. Amendment No 1 is a genuine and well-intentioned attempt to mitigate unintended consequences. However, as I outlined, my concern is that it remains to be seen whether the proposal would be challenging to enforce, particularly given that any system for checking staff ID, appointment letters or registrations would be resource-intensive. There could also be lost receipts and things like that. We support the amendment, but it would be helpful if the Minister elaborated on how the principle behind it would be operationalised. <BR /> <BR />My party will also support amendment No 2, which increases the lead time from six months to two years.”
“Those staff should not have to pay for parking, and it is unfair that they are expected to do so, particularly at those times when they come in to fill gaps in the workforce, sometimes at short notice. I also remind the House that we should continue to tell very ill patients that they can benefit from reimbursement schemes for the cost of getting to hospital settings. We must ensure that people know about those schemes and that they reach those who need them. I agree that staff and those who are extremely ill should not face the burden of paying what is classed as an additional tax.”
“I question whether it would suit a growing ageing population. In the case of pre-booking slots, would people properly engage with the system? Is there also a need for the Department or trusts to provide significant capital investment to implement wider use of that technology? Capital investment is in short supply, given that we need it to plug gaps in our front-line services. <BR /> <BR />It may seem as though I spoke very negatively about the Bill, but those concerns need to be put on the record. Of most importance to me is that free parking at hospital sites will remove an unfair burden on our wonderful NHS staff and very ill patients.”
“Absolutely. I fundamentally agree with what the Member said. I do not think that that is the staff's problem, and I will come to that later. Certainly, we have to look at it in the round. There are capacity issues that need to be dealt with. We all agree that a root-and-branch review of car parking charges at hospitals in Northern Ireland is needed so that people are not disadvantaged in any way. We accept that different trusts have different policies. <BR /> <BR />At this point, I thank the Bill sponsor for her engagement with the Committee. During evidence sessions, we heard from the sponsor about technology used in other places, such as automatic number plate recognition, that would help to rectify some of the issues that we discussed. However, I point out again that that has not been without its challenges elsewhere.”
“Patients may miss appointments as a result of capacity and space issues in car parks. That is an unintended consequence of free car parking for all. Missed appointments, as the Minister will know, come at a colossal cost to our health service. <BR /> <BR />We all agree that —”
“<BR /> <BR />The capacity issue at hospital car parks, which the Minister raised as well, is a concern. My fear is that hospital sites could easily become glorified park-and-ride facilities. However, amendment No 1 from the Health Department goes some way towards dealing with that, as it clarifies who will be able to avail themselves of free car parking and who is a visitor. <BR /> <BR />It is crucial that we deal with capacity issues, because access, especially for emergency services vehicles, is vital. When you look at areas that are congested with cars, you see how dangerous that is for ambulances trying to get seriously ill patients to the accident and emergency department. Every minute counts, not least for patients who are trying to access appointments.”
“Therefore, to help with prioritising sustainable travel in the face of climate change, I would like the Department to engage with the Department for Infrastructure to ensure better transport provision to our hospital sites. That will help with our health transformation as well. For me, that is important, and it will help to end the postcode lottery in my area. <BR /> <BR />In 2008, the Scottish Government abolished car parking charges at NHS hospitals. However, that decision did not extend to three hospitals operating under a PFI scheme. In 2021, the Scottish Government then purchased the three car parks at PFI sites at a cost of £35 million to ensure free car parking. Given the timescales, have we been able to scope out what the cost might be for any PFI sites in Northern Ireland?”
“My understanding is that that deficit is charged to the health and social care trusts. Therefore, it is money that cannot be generated and put into patient care. To absorb the costs of car parking and maintenance for such car parks could strip vital moneys out of our already bruised health service. It would be good to know what that might mean for our health budget and our health service going forward. <BR /> <BR />When we look at the transport issue for patients and the workforce in my area of Fermanagh and South Tyrone, we see that the option of getting a bus to the hospital is simply non-existent, and people must therefore travel to the hospital via car or taxi, whether they are a patient, visitor or staff member.”
“There is not a person in the Chamber who would not agree that the removal of car parking charges for patients and, in particular, our front-line healthcare staff is the right thing to do and that we should be looking at that. I support the amendments. However, I want to put on record some of my difficulties and concerns with the Bill. I am grateful to the Minister for his amendments, which make clear who will benefit from free car parking. <BR /> <BR />Income from parking charges pays for maintenance, lighting, security, resurfacing, parking enforcement, secure bike storage and showers as well as contributing to patient care. It has been stated that, in 2018-19, hospital car parks generated £7·5 million from charges, but the cost of operating the car parks was £8·8 million. That is a deficit of £1·3 million.”
“I welcome the opportunity to outline my views this afternoon.”
“<BR /> <BR />I understand that we have no crystal ball, but I wish that we all did. The legislation will extend article 48 of and schedule 18 to the Coronavirus Act 2020 for a further six months until 24 September. If I had that crystal ball, we would know what will happen between now and then, but we do not. I understand that other jurisdictions have legislated for emergency powers in situations relating to COVID. As a member of the Health Committee, I understand why the legislation is before us. However, I will abstain today, given that I have concerns regarding how these powers may affect lives and livelihoods here. I also understand that, should a variant emerge in another country, we may need to mitigate its impact by putting in place some restrictions and travel regulations for the protection of public health.”
“Thankfully, we are in a better place with the vaccine, and I was very glad to have had my three jabs, which minimised my symptoms. <BR /> <BR />I am glad that we are in a place where the virus is such that we are able to relax the restrictions that we have had. However, I also recognise that the restrictions have been draconian at times. The Minister will know that I was not in favour of COVID vaccine certificates, most notably. As far as I can see, they were ushered in as quickly as they were ushered out. Businesses and families have really struggled with the changing nature of the COVID restrictions and, in fact, with the restrictions as a whole. They have had major ramifications for the economy, our health service, mental health and domestic abuse. We have to remember that home was not always the safest place for people.”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak on the legislation. As my colleague Pam Cameron pointed out, the DUP Members are unwhipped on this particular issue, so I will speak in my individual capacity and as a member of the Health Committee. <BR /> <BR />From the outset, as this matter deals with COVID regulations and powers, I take the opportunity to extend my sympathies to those who have sadly died as a result of COVID-19. I also pay tribute to our health service staff, who have had to cope with pressures in handling COVID and dealing with a pandemic. They have had a very stressful number of years, trying to save lives, and they are still under extreme pressure in our hospital settings. COVID is still here. I know; I had it last week. I lost my voice, which is not great for a politician, but, thankfully, I recovered.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. With regard to the rates relief, a number of buildings will be included in that, which is good. However, that may be a small number of buildings that is not representative of ATMs across Northern Ireland. Can you detail why that is the case and whether anything further can be done in relation to ATMs in rural constituencies?”
“<BR /> <BR />My hope is that the Bill will provide real and much-needed change to the system. Today is another good day for the Health Committee, which has brought forward another very important piece of legislation for people outside the Chamber. It is a privilege to support the legislation tonight.”
“For the people whom I represent in Fermanagh and South Tyrone, ending the postcode lottery for services is vital. That is why having a region-wide early intervention service is an important step. It should not matter whether you live in Belleek or Belfast, Lisbellaw or Lisburn: everybody deserves the same treatment, help and support. <BR /> <BR />I thank all those for whom today will be another weapon in their armoury and an achievement that they should rightly celebrate and of which they should feel proud. I thank those who engaged with the Committee, particularly Autism NI and the parents and young people who contacted us to tell their stories and seek help. It is really great to see members of Autism NI in the Public Gallery tonight. We salute you for the efforts that you have made to get to this point.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Bill will effect positive change by providing improvements to the implementation of the autism strategy through steps such as the creation of an early intervention service and the creation of a central autism information service for autistic individuals, families, carers and professionals. The legislation will also ensure that the Minister reports to the Assembly annually on autism funding. The provision in the Bill for the appointment of the autism reviewer to monitor, review and commission work to promote and scrutinise the adequacy and effectiveness of services is vital. <BR /> <BR />It is vital to ensure that those with autism have the help and support that they need so that they are not burdened with constant battles that they should not have to fight. There should be help for those who need it most.”
“I will not go into a huge amount of what has already been said. I thank the Bill sponsor — my colleague and friend Pam Cameron, who is also the Deputy Chair of the Health Committee — for the huge amount of work that she undertook in order to see the Bill reach its Final Stage. <BR /> <BR />Like the Member who spoke before me, I hope that the Bill will not sit on a shelf gathering dust and that instead it will make effective change in the lives of those with autism. I fully believe that it will improve services. We all know families who call us or step into our offices and often feel like they are fighting a constant battle for their children or, indeed, themselves. We must not forget those who are diagnosed later in life, and I am glad that we took them into consideration in the Health Committee.”
“The Member makes a very important point. There is an undercurrent that those who are in a pro-life organisation or who hold that view are all antagonistic and are all shouting and hurling abuse outside certain premises. We know that that is not always the case. He makes a very important point on that important aspect of the Bill.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. My problem is with how the legislation has been drafted. I outlined my concerns about how enforceable it will be on the ground and how it will work in practice. That is what I stated in the Chamber today. My concerns are centred around how the Bill is drafted and its outworkings on the ground.”