Deborah Erskine
Fermanagh and South Tyrone · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Minister, you did not mention the removal of the zero-detriment policy, which is a concern that I have. That is worrying for anybody who sits in the Chamber, and for the construction industry in particular.”
“I thank the Minister for his comments about the Western Trust's chair. I, too, pass on my sympathies to his family. <BR /> <BR />Minister, we had the pause to the emergency general surgery consultation process last July. You asked the trust to provide a vision plan.”
“Quality assurance is really important when looking at roads. A number of us in the Chamber could take you to potholes that we have raised with the Department that have been fixed but have then reopened within a matter of days, meaning that we have had to go back into the portal to raise it with DFI staff again.”
“I thank the Minister for her statement and hope that she enjoyed her visit to Enniskillen. The statement mentions moorings. I want to focus on the Fermanagh end of the Ulster canal. I have received communication about accessible jetties and ensuring that jetties and moorings are up to standard.”
“<BR /> <BR />That was laid bare last Wednesday when representatives from the ICRIR said that they had written to the Irish Government 11 or 12 times without receiving any form of reply from them. That is shameful.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is interesting that, for years, Sinn Féin has called on the UK Government to provide information, yet its silence on the Irish Government is deafening. There are people who sit in the Chamber who know exactly the truth about what happened, yet they are prepared to lie about their involvement in the IRA.”
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“I apologise that I was not able to meet them in person due to my being in the Chamber for another statement. <BR /> <BR />In Fermanagh and South Tyrone, we have, unfortunately, had our fair share of accidents. In November 2008, Devenish College pupils Nathan Gault and Debbie Whyte were killed in a road accident on a rural road in Florencecourt. The accident prompted the school to think about putting reflector strips on its school blazers. The Hogg family are also here today. Their daughter, Caitlin, also sadly died after exiting a bus in Fermanagh. Sadly, too many young people have lost their lives in Northern Ireland in such circumstances. We support the purpose of the motion and will support the UUP amendment because it recognises the need for a comprehensive, multi-agency approach to pupil safety.”
“We are debating an issue that strikes at the heart of our responsibilities, as citizens who use the roads and as MLAs: protecting the safety of our children is paramount. We cannot ignore the daily risks that young people face as they travel to and from school, especially in rural areas where the road infrastructure was not designed with the modes of transport that we have today in mind. <BR /> <BR />The motion highlights the absence of a legal requirement for vehicles to stop when a school bus is picking up or dropping off pupils. There is a need to explore road safety in that context, and I welcome the Minister's announcement today. I raised the matter at the Infrastructure Committee in March of this year, following the tragic death of Caitlin-Rose McMullan. I pay tribute to all the affected families, some of whom are in the Chamber.”
“I thank the Minister for his investment in Enniskillen library, which is getting the lion's share of the £1 million that he allocated. That is proof that the Minister has not forgotten about County Fermanagh, and I thank him for that. He will remember his visit to Enniskillen library, which was in a really poor condition, but, hopefully, will become a state-of-the-art facility. Does he agree with me that investing in libraries is important for the community, and can he provide a timescale for Enniskillen library?”
“That is incorrect. I should have stated that that is the projected figure for a 10-year period between 2019 and 2029, rather than the annual cost. I apologise to the House for my error and for any confusion created. It was not my intention to mislead anyone or to create any annoyance by incorrectly stating that figure.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I wish to correct the record regarding a debate on Tuesday 20 May on the impact of illegal immigration on Northern Ireland. It has come to my attention that, during the debate, I said:”
“Minister, you have said in the Chamber today that you are glad that you were "blissfully unaware" of what was happening. That concerns me, because I would like to think that, as Minister, you would be taking the lead, and it is a Minister's job to know exactly what is going on while working with the trusts. <BR /> <BR />I turn to the report itself. Over 70 staff were interviewed, and they were treated as whistle-blowers in order to provide anonymity. The situation in the unit was described as "chaos". Junior staff described being bullied, with incidents of implements being thrown in theatre. Why did the Belfast Trust allow the situation to escalate to the stage where, the report states:”
“I urge all Members to support our amendment, and I call on the Minister to act with the seriousness and speed that the crisis demands.”
“A new comprehensive oral health strategy is long overdue. That strategy must address workforce planning, training, retention and support for dentists working in underserved areas. If we do not invest in the dental workforce now, we will lose more practices and expertise, and, ultimately, our public health will deteriorate. <BR /> <BR />People in my constituency deserve to know that, when their child has a toothache, they can get an appointment. When an older person needs a filling or a denture repaired, they should not be left waiting for weeks or having to travel for hours. As has been said by others in the Chamber today, that is not a luxury; it is a basic public service. We cannot build a fair and healthy society without it.”
“We need measures to expand access to services and address the very real regional inequalities that persist, particularly in rural areas such as Fermanagh and South Tyrone. <BR /> <BR />I also highlight the role of early and preventative care. Oral health is not separate from general health. Poor dental hygiene is linked to heart disease, diabetes and poor outcomes in pregnancy. The cost of inaction will not just fall on the dental system; it will burden our entire health service. The Minister must prioritise the completion and publication of the general dental services cost-of-service review. Dentists have waited for long enough. If we are to rebuild NHS dentistry, we need a funding model that reflects the real-world cost of delivering high-quality care. We must also look to the future.”
“The fees paid by the Department of Health simply do not meet the real cost of providing NHS dental services. That has forced many practices into making an impossible choice: take on fewer NHS patients, switch to private dentistry or close their doors altogether. We must face facts: the current system is broken. It is not enough to acknowledge the crisis; we need action. The general dental statistics publication for 2023-24 shows that the Fermanagh and Omagh council area had the lowest adult registration rate at 49%, which is 17 points below the Northern Ireland average. That is a staggering picture. Our amendment strengthens the original motion by calling for more urgency and adding in the regional inequalities that must be tackled.”
“Constituents tell me that they can no longer find an NHS dentist and that the switch to private dentistry models is creating health inequalities in each town and village across Northern Ireland. Others have been removed from practice lists because their local surgeries can no longer afford to keep them under the current funding arrangements. We are not talking about just routine check-ups; we are talking about serious dental pain being left untreated, infections going unmanaged and families having to travel extraordinary distances for care that they used to receive in their own communities. That is not acceptable in a modern healthcare system. <BR /> <BR />The British Dental Association has been crystal clear: the financial model for NHS dentistry is no longer viable.”
“I support the important motion and want to give a voice in the Chamber, yet again, to the growing frustration and anxiety that is felt by many of my constituents in Fermanagh and South Tyrone, and by people across Northern Ireland, who face increasingly severe difficulties in accessing basic dental care. The previous time that I spoke in the Chamber on this issue, I described my area as a "dental desert". It is not getting any better. I provided options and pleaded with the Minister to act. Unfortunately, in response, I got rhetoric about how my party voted for the Budget. Let us hope that the Minister will come with a different attitude today. <BR /> <BR />In rural constituencies such as mine, the problem is not new, but it is worsening at an alarming rate.”
“I thank the Member for giving way and for raising Fermanagh and South Tyrone. Does he agree that, when dentists switch to private models or close their doors in rural areas, people in those areas will have problems in accessing transport in order to access dental treatment? That is a huge problem in rural areas and adds to the health inequalities.”
“Our health service, among many other services, is going to be using 5G. The technology that we are going to use in order to build better roads infrastructure will use 5G as we look to the future. A community awareness campaign would be important in order to demonstrate what mast improvements will mean for communities. <BR /> <BR />I hope that the debate is not just smoke and mirrors. We know full well that infrastructure in West Belfast is being improved and is going to be further improved. I hope that, through community engagement and awareness, we can focus on the progression made by the barrier busting task force, push forward with the mobile action plan for Northern Ireland (MAP NI) and show leadership in order to stop attacks on masts, not just in West Belfast but across Northern Ireland.”
“It is important that we understand and progress the ideals of the barrier busing task force (BBTF). I have heard that investors are turning away from Northern Ireland because getting planning permission takes much longer here than it does in other parts of the United Kingdom. It is therefore important that we make progress on some of the issues. <BR /> <BR />The attacks on masts and infrastructure that have occurred in West Belfast have been mentioned and are part and parcel of the debate. Four 5G masts were damaged over a 48-hour period in the area in July 2024. It is important that we show leadership. My ask of the Infrastructure and Economy Ministers is to come up with a community awareness campaign on 5G and improving mobile phone infrastructure. It is critical for technology development.”
“Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. I am from Fermanagh and South Tyrone, and we all know that west is best. As someone from the west speaking about mobile phone infrastructure, I sympathise wholeheartedly with people who cannot access good mobile phone coverage. I would love to have 4G in my area, never mind 5G, and to see improvements made to masts and infrastructure. Such improvements are needed not just in West Belfast but throughout Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />I have spoken on the issue in the Chamber before, and I have concerns. It is ironic that this Adjournment debate was secured by Sinn Féin, which has Ministers holding the Economy and Infrastructure portfolios. Planning permission is one of the stumbling blocks to infrastructure improvements.”
“They also know when Westminster is asking ratepayers to foot the bill for their policy failures. <BR /> <BR />The DUP will not be silent while our health service, schools and communities are eroded through illegal practices. An immigration system should be firm, fair and, crucially, legal. I urge every Member to support the motion and to back our councils with stronger planning tools.”
“<BR /> <BR />The answers to deal with this are in politics. That is why I say clearly that violence should not be on the table. Those who are acting as judges and jurors and taking the law into their own hands in communities are wrong to do so. That is why the DUP is fronting up and bringing this to the Assembly Chamber today. It is incumbent on us to act. People use the excuse of violence because they are frustrated with politics and feel that they are being let down. There is anger in communities when illegal practices happen under their nose. Many people whom I speak to are compassionate, but they are not fools. They know the difference between a refugee fleeing persecution and an opportunist who is coached to destroy documentation crossing the Channel.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Assembly cannot solve the small boat crisis — that rests with Westminster — but we can insist that, within our devolved competence, planning policy protects local people. The strategic planning policy statement (SPPS) is one such lever. Right now, it is far too permissive. Councils feel compelled to green-light HMO applications because of the SPPS, which gives them no firm footing to refuse. The approach to such planning controls also varies between councils, leading to inconsistencies and, at times, a failure to guard against the over-provision of HMOs and the corresponding impacts on community cohesion. That is why we call on the Infrastructure Minister to urgently revisit the strategic planning policy statement, give councils more direction and define the parameters for the over-proliferation of HMOs.”
“They are no longer confined to student areas; they are appearing in established working-class and rural communities, driving up rents and hollowing out the very fabric of what, the Government say, they want to protect. There is a direct line from uncontrolled illegal immigration to unsustainable pressure on housing stock and, from that pressure, the proliferation of HMOs. It is something that I see in my constituency, particularly in Dungannon. The difficulties are manifold, with unscrupulous landlords profiting from people via the Government, opportunity rife for illness with poor quality housing and over-occupancy, increased housing costs and antisocial behaviour. That is not a society that we should advocate.”
“Absolutely. Politics is the answer to all of this. It is about debating the issues in the likes of this Chamber and raising the concerns that people bring to us. <BR /> <BR />According to the National Audit Office, the annual cost of accommodating asylum seekers in Northern Ireland has exploded to £400 million. Every pound spent on emergency accommodation is a pound not spent on cancer drugs, potholes or special educational needs classrooms. Today, I will focus on the houses of multiple occupancy. In town after town, the rapid conversion of homes into HMOs is often substandard, frequently unchecked and utterly unsuited to the character of neighbourhoods.”
“<BR /> <BR />At the outset, I will say that it is important that we have a measured tone, that we differentiate between illegal and legal immigration and that there is an understanding of the concerns of the people in the communities that we all serve. The people whom I am representing by speaking on the motion are not far-right extremists. They are not racist. They have concerns about our ability to deliver services in Northern Ireland and how they are impacted.”
“I rise to speak on this important motion, in which there is a lot of public interest. Many of our constituents have always shown generosity to those who play by the rules, yet that goodwill is being stretched to breaking point because His Majesty's Government have allowed an uncontrolled system of illegal immigration to flourish while focusing on curbing legal routes. That ultimately pushes people into illegal and unsafe practices, and that is at the heart of the motion. A policy that squeezes a nurse recruited by the NHS while people-smuggling gangs sail on undisturbed is the very definition of a misplaced priority.”
“It seems that that is a party political move, at a station that has not yet been open for a year, yet we do not see the pedestrianisation of Hill Street moving forward, with more money to be spent on stakeholder engagement for that project and still no indication from the Minister on how the major roads prioritisation programme will fit into the budget. The Minister seems to have blinkers on when it comes to funding infrastructure that meets everyone's needs.”
“We must therefore ensure that, as a Committee, we focus on how the Department utilises its resources to deliver the best outcomes for our citizens. <BR /> <BR />I will briefly touch on some points as DUP infrastructure spokesperson. I have to say that, since Minister Kimmins took up her position, some of her decision-making on her budget has, in a cash-strapped Department, been questionable, to say the least. I turn in particular to the fact that she allocated £145,000 to Irish-language signage in Grand Central station.”
“Once Translink's final allocation is known, the Committee will, therefore, be particularly keen to consider the associated equality impact assessment in relation to those associated groups. Our commitments under the Climate Change Act will also require significant and sustained funding to encourage a modal shift away from our reliance on cars. However, until that occurs, we cannot simply expect people to move towards public transport without viable and convenient solutions to support that move. That is particularly the case in rural areas. Not only does our infrastructure lie at the heart of our aspirations to grow our economy; it underpins so many of the Executive's Programme for Government priorities.”
“The Committee will continue to play its part in supporting meaningful initiatives that seek to minimise the human cost that so many families have had to endure. <BR /> <BR />Uncertainty of funding presents an ongoing and significant challenge to Translink in planning for future years. It is insufficient to meet its requirements under its public-service contract. Not only does that impact on the range and frequency of services that are available to our citizens, but, as the Committee is acutely aware, it will also potentially impact on those in rural areas and on section 75 groups. The Committee recognises the legitimate concerns about the impacts of reduced funding for services on those who live with disabilities who are reliant on public transport.”
“Could the Minister also provide an answer on whether the RRI borrowing is being used as a mechanism to provide the Executive with additional capital to help to fund other priorities in DFI and elsewhere? <BR /> <BR />The Committee continues to be concerned about road safety and the limited service for our road network. On road safety more widely, particular focus is needed to tackle driver behaviour to make sure not only that we adopt a responsible approach to our driving but that our vehicles are roadworthy and legal. Following its meeting on 30 April, the Committee wrote to the PSNI to seek further detail on its recent Operation Lifesaver. The Committee was concerned to learn, from the response, that, on 16 April, some 724 motoring offences were detected — that was in one day. Those stark figures are extremely worrying.”
“The net result seems to be that Northern Ireland Water will be just £26·3 million better off in terms of capital despite the Executive's borrowing some £105·7 million. <BR /> <BR />Whilst I do not underestimate the amount of money that Northern Ireland Water receives from the Department, it is important to remember that the allocations that are anticipated to arise from the Budget will fall way below what the Utility Regulator assessed as being needed under the current price control period, which is price control 21 (PC21). It would be helpful if the Minister could indicate the basis for RRI borrowing. For example, have the Executive approved the borrowing just as a means of accessing additional capital to provide flexibility for DFI to effectively reduce the conventional capital allocation to Northern Ireland Water?”
“The Committee looks forward to examining the outputs of the review and will receive evidence on that on 11 June. <BR /> <BR />The Committee acknowledges that reinvestment and reform initiative (RRI) capital borrowing of some £105·7 million has been secured for NI Water. Despite efforts to examine whether that borrowing will be additional to what it normally receives, however, the Committee notes that no final decisions have been made. When looking at the Department's equality impact assessment (EQIA), it was suggested that Northern Ireland Water's capital allocation is likely, effectively, to be reduced from £323·7 million to £244·3 million and then supplemented by RRI borrowing.”
“As I stated previously, not only does that complicate delivery, it is, undoubtedly, a more expensive way of funding capital projects that can take a number of years to complete. <BR /> <BR />Throughout its scrutiny, the Committee noted the Department's assessment that its draft opening resource allocation is 8% less than what it considers to be required. With increased rates of contributions, the Department and its arm's-length bodies need to act decisively if they are to manage that additional pressure. <BR /> <BR />As we have seen over recent weeks, Northern Ireland Water forecasted that it would be in an overspend position in 2024-25, resulting in the Minister's decision to engage forensic accountants to examine its spending.”
“As was indicated during the recent debate led by the Committee for Finance, the Infrastructure Committee received oral evidence from the Department for Infrastructure, Translink and Northern Ireland Water to consider their assessment of their funding requirements for 2025-26. It is a well-rehearsed argument that, right across our public services, the assessed requirements compared with the funding available leaves us all facing the reality that we will struggle to fully realise many of the things that we want to achieve. The Committee is well aware of the Department's capital requirements. However, the lack of a multi-year capital budget leaves uncertainty for those with aspirations to improve the lives of people right across Northern Ireland.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. He will be aware of Dungannon Swifts' recent win in the Irish Cup final, and I hope that he will join me in congratulating them. Dungannon Swifts is testament to the importance of home-grown talent, particularly with respect to Dungannon United Youth, bringing grassroots sport to areas and giving people an opportunity. Will the Minister ensure that funding through his Department inspires the next generation and that grassroots funding will be prioritised?”
“I thank the Minister for his interesting statement. Access to GPs is an issue that is raised with me daily, particularly by rural patients, who have to travel further. He will know that, in the south-west area, we have a had a collapse of services, and I am concerned that the statement will push further collapse. <BR /> <BR />My question is on the increased technology that the Minister mentioned. He mentioned pre-bookable slots to ensure that patients are dealt with when they walk into practices. How will that be effectively monitored by his Department in an independent way? Has he seen any improvement to that over time, as money was provided by the previous Minister, Minister Swann, in the previous mandate? We do not know where exactly that money went to improve telephone services.”
“The people to whom those letters were sent may not have been involved in any fraudulent activity but may have been caught up in this farce due to the fact that they sat their test within a certain timescale or with a certain examiner or examiners. That has huge implications for those who have acted in good faith and in accordance with the structure for obtaining a licence — an essential document. While a police investigation is under way, it is important that assurances are given immediately to the Assembly and to the public on how it is being handled. It is yet another sign of dysfunction in the DVA. It must be dealt with, particularly as DVA is undertaking another round of recruitment. Public confidence on the matter must be restored.”
“The Infrastructure Committee was unaware of the matter, despite having recently had a closed session on another issue; we found out about it through the media. <BR /> <BR />There are far too many questions to be answered by the Infrastructure Minister and the DVA. How long has it been going on? When did the Minister become aware? When did police step in? How many DVA staff or driving instructors or driving schools were involved? Does it centre on one area of Northern Ireland? The list goes on. <BR /> <BR />I am aware that, in recent weeks, the DVA has sent letters to people revoking their licences.”
“I am concerned about media reports over the weekend that centred on what seems to be fraudulent activity in the Driver and Vehicle Agency (DVA). Yesterday, the media reported that some drivers had been able to gain a licence through payment, having not sat a driving test, and that, as a result, a police investigation has been launched. Let us think about the realities. Effectively, that means that, right now in Northern Ireland, there are, potentially, people who are driving with a licence without having sat their test. The implications for road safety are huge, yet the Infrastructure Minister, having known that to be the case, has been silent on the matter in the Chamber. The DVA has not come forward either.”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. I asked a clear question about planning and work with the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs on the ammonia strategy, because the question on the lips of many landowners is how they will replace agricultural buildings. What is the Minister doing about planning?”
“<BR /> <BR />There are many points that I would like to touch on during the Adjournment debate, but, unfortunately, time has beaten me. There are points that have been adequately raised, such as the single farm payment and issues like that. However, today, we should have sympathy with those who are dealing with the situation before them. I am talking about the landowners who belong to our biggest industry: the agriculture industry. It is tough for that industry at the moment, so let us ensure that there is fairness in the system when it comes to infrastructure projects.”
“We know that, right now, land prices are very high, but that does not seem to be reflected in what is being offered to farmers. The A4 dualling from Dungannon to Ballygawley was officially opened in December 2010. Compensation paid for agricultural land at that stage ranged from £11,000 to £28,000 per acre. Fast-forward to today, and, given inflation and everything else, I was flabbergasted to learn from one constituent that they were being offered just over £13,000 per acre. They are one of the largest landowners set to lose land, and they are on what is deemed very good ground. Whilst I recognise that the Minister may not be able to speak to that directly, there seems to be a slight unfairness, as I see it, in how values are being reached.”
“That is a major issue, given the concern in the farming community about the ammonia strategy and the planning constraints that that may create. It is sad that we do not have the Agriculture Minister in the Chamber to hear this. I have raised concerns that landowners have about planning, including whether there will be any special circumstances or expediency for such planning applications. Unfortunately, no answers have been forthcoming, so, Minister, can you clarify whether your Department is actively working with the Agriculture Minister and whether you will consider mitigations that can be put in place for such planning applications? That would be useful not only for this project but for any future road projects. <BR /> <BR />Another fundamental point is the pricing of land.”
“One person asked how that is allowed to happen, given the already vast amount of land clearance and ecological damage. Should a situation arise in which the legal challenge is successful, the continuation of that work would, as that person succinctly described it, be akin to a farmer building an agricultural building without planning permission. Perhaps the Minister can mention that in her response, because it seems presumptuous to continue with works at this time. Indeed, there are high stakes involved in the Minister's allowing that work to continue, given the impact on the environment and the fact that we await the court judgement. <BR /> <BR />That brings me to my next point, which is about planning permission for replacement agricultural sheds and buildings.”
“Recently, the DUP agriculture spokesperson, Michelle McIlveen, and I met landowners, one of whom had lost a family member on the road. Whilst landowners whom I speak to recognise that the road project needs to happen, they ask only that there be fairness in the process. Unfortunately, that has not always been the case. The media and some organisations have created such a sense of annoyance and frustration that the legitimate concerns of landowners have not been heard in the wider debate. There has been some demonisation of that group of people, and I want to highlight some of the concerns that have been brought to my attention. <BR /> <BR />First, we know that work on the road has been progressing since the vesting orders in November. However, we still await the outcome of the legal judgement.”
“The devastation of a road death cannot be overstated. That impact stays with you for ever. Road safety is always paramount, and, no matter the road, we can never do enough to promote road safety.”
“I declare an interest, as my husband's family are landowners along the A5. I thank my party colleague Tom Buchanan for securing this timely and important Adjournment debate. It is disappointing, though, that the A5 project has been beset by misinformation and misconceptions. There is loss on all sides of the argument, and that must be recognised by all. I sympathise with all those who have lost a loved one on the A5.”
“I urge the public to be vigilant about wildfires and lighting fires. Do everything possible to ensure that no further destruction occurs. Be safe and act responsibly.”
“I congratulate the church for giving its building freely and assisting the Fire and Rescue Service in any way that it could. <BR /> <BR />The fire is still being investigated, but it should be a wake-up call for everybody that lighting fires is no type of game. If you think that it is, you should face up to what has happened in my area and in other parts of Northern Ireland in recent weeks and months and to the cost of destroying wildlife. Human life and property could have been destroyed as a result of those mindless actions. There is to be good weather this week: we welcome that but it also brings danger.”
“Last week, as a result of the fire, there was a stench of smoke in the area, large clouds of smoke and ash on cars and in buildings. Last night, I witnessed the ash blowing about in my own home, which shows how dangerous such fires could be for people with respiratory illnesses and one thing and another. <BR /> <BR />I place on record my thanks to the crews who worked around the clock and those that came down to the Clogher Valley from elsewhere in Northern Ireland. I also thank the PSNI, which monitored road closures to ensure that emergency vehicles could get through. It is a testament to the community spirit in my area that Clogher Valley Free Presbyterian Church enabled the emergency services to set up their base in its facilities.”
“My statement is on a related subject. I pay tribute to the scores of firefighters who tackled a blaze in the Clogher Valley last week. At one point, over 100 firefighters were tasked to the area. The Fire and Rescue Service indicated that the fires were started deliberately, and I wholeheartedly condemn those responsible for them. The devastation was massive and upsetting to witness. It was awful to see the loss of habitat and the potential danger to the area. The fire could be seen from where I live. <BR /> <BR />Over recent days, many have made mention of their shock and sadness at seeing such a huge fire. The western area group commander, Patsy Begley, told the media that, in his 26 years in the Fire and Rescue Service, he has never seen anything like it.”
“I thank the deputy First Minister for her answer. She will know that it is not just about capital for innocent victim groups like SEFF. SEFF does a vast amount of work in supporting innocent victims and helping them through the justice process, which can be arduous and difficult, particularly for innocent victims. However, does the deputy First Minister agree with me that access to justice is important for innocent victims, that the door must not be closed to them, that we must ensure that justice is not denied, and that the system does not become a two-tier system?”