Diane Forsythe
South Down · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“The Schomberg Society and the staff and pupils of Kilkeel Primary School worked hard alongside the team from Blue Eagle Productions, especially director Rosie McClelland, to deliver a fantastic performance. We saw Northern Ireland's history, heritage and the pupils' great talent shining through.”
“<BR /> <BR />The production was an excellent way to mark that important historic event and for those P7 pupils to bring their time in primary school to a close. It was bittersweet for the year group, as one of their dear classmates was notably missing.”
“As we come to the end of another school term, I pay tribute to some excellent work at Kilkeel Primary School in my constituency, especially by the P7s. I declare an interest, as my son is one of them.”
“Mrs McCabe, the school principal, shared with the children the words of Proverbs chapter 17, verse 17 on how true friends love at all times — through the good times and the hardships of life. I thank Mrs McCabe for her leadership.”
“The Minister will not be surprised by my question on the delay of the accounts certification on SEUPB, as we are in June 2026, 18 months after the end of financial year 2024. Those accounts have still not been certified in both jurisdictions, and a full further financial year has since passed.”
“Minister, you say that you want to avoid unintended consequences for businesses and property owners, but those measures do nothing for existing long-term businesses that are struggling on, already occupy premises and cannot afford to invest in their properties, and there will be consequences for them.”
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“<BR /> <BR />Evelyn was firmly grounded in the Mourne Ulster-Scots heritage, and she took every opportunity to promote it. She gave her all to every organisation that she was in and did so in a quiet and unassuming manner, seeking no recognition. She would probably be completely scundered at the thought of my speaking about her in the Northern Ireland Assembly, but she deserves recognition for the huge impact that she had on so many lives in our community. <BR /> <BR />Evelyn was a dedicated and lifelong member of Orangefield flute band for 40 years and the band's secretary for 30 years. Evelyn, in spite of her illness, was attending band practice up to two weeks ago and was delighted at the band's success last week in the Flute Band Association of Northern Ireland contest.”
“Last Saturday, the kingdom of Mourne lost one of the most precious jewels in its crown: sadly, Evelyn Edgar passed away following a short illness. She was small in stature, but her smile and her heart and its reach were larger than life. <BR /> <BR />Evelyn was loved so much by everyone, especially her family, whom my thoughts and prayers are firmly with at this time: her parents, John and Ann; her dearly loved sister, Sarah, and brother, Newell, who were more than siblings — they were all best friends; her brother-in-law, Gordon; and her adored nephews, Paul and John. The entire family circle and wider community will so dearly miss Evelyn, but they are grateful to know that, through her faith, she is at home with her Lord and that they will all meet again.”
“Does the Minister agree that some of the gender ideologies espoused by the Alliance Party may, in fact, be detrimental to women?”
“I encourage progression to enable him to have budget flowing under the Programme of Government, because, if Paul Givan has more, he will deliver more for working families in Northern Ireland.”
“With that £25 million, within four months of making an announcement, the Education Minister delivered the Northern Ireland childcare subsidy scheme, which has put over £4 million back into the pockets of families here in Northern Ireland, with over 14,000 children registered. <BR /> <BR />We have seen £7·6 million invested in existing programmes, including Sure Start, and a major expansion of preschool provision, with an extra 2,500 children moving to full-time nursery school places from September 2025. Research has commenced, and a strategy is progressing. Our DUP Education Minister has proved that he can deliver and can make a difference on childcare.”
“I particularly welcome the priority to deliver more affordable and accessible high-quality early learning and childcare, which is a critical priority for working families in Northern Ireland and in ensuring that every child has the best start in life. In advance of the Programme for Government being agreed, it was excellent to see childcare being identified up front as a key priority of the Executive and the Assembly, with £25 million being ring-fenced in this financial year. I am very proud that, with that somewhat modest allocation, the DUP Education Minister, Paul Givan, progressed at pace and delivered on childcare in this financial year. It is critical that funding is able to flow for that Programme for Government commitment.”
“Work now needs to be done to make the PFG tangible for our communities. Our people need to see how the Programme for Government makes their lives better and takes us forward. On behalf of the Finance Committee, I welcome the publication of the Programme for Government, and we will continue to play our part in scrutinising its delivery as well as offering advice on how it can be made more effective. <BR /> <BR />I will speak briefly as DUP MLA for South Down. I welcome the Programme for Government. It is good to see that we are in a position where it is agreed in advance of agreeing the 2025-26 Budget, with a view to aligning the priorities and ensuring that budget flows through to them.”
“Work around that has entered a new phase, with the engagement of Professor Gerry Holtham, around our relative need and the level at which our fiscal floor should rest. <BR /> <BR />I indicated that the Committee received commentary on the PFG from various stakeholders, including Ulster University. They expressed a concern that the PFG focuses too much on immediate pressures and a restricted set of priorities. They suggest that a longer and more strategic view should be taken, with greater emphasis on prevention and early intervention. Like the Committee, they emphasised the need for a multi-year Budget linked to the Programme for Government. Essentially, the building blocks to achieve the Programme for Government's priorities need to be more clearly identified alongside much greater cross-departmental working and budgeting.”
“We have not yet truly arrived at a fully Budget-linked PFG; indeed, page 88 of the PFG is titled "Funding the Programme for Government". That single page describes the need for reform and transformation and highlights the difficult fiscal situation in which we find ourselves. There is no detail about Budget-linking to the PFG, and that is disappointing. The PFG also references the interim fiscal framework, to which the Committee has also applied considerable scrutiny. The interim fiscal framework was signed by the previous Finance Minister in May 2024. It is expected to put the Executive's finances on a more sustainable footing to allow delivery of the high-quality public services that people expect and deserve.”
“Only when the two are linked will there be proper clarity and transparency regarding Executive and departmental priorities. It will then be much easier for Committee members to see where budgets are going and better exercise their advisory role with respect to Ministers. <BR /> <BR />It is important to remember that the Programme for Government is a legislative requirement in paragraph 20 of the Belfast Agreement:”
“The Committee notes that the final version of the PFG indicates that that work is now being led by a new reform and transformation unit in the Executive Office. The Committee will seek clarification of the Finance Minister's role in the ongoing scrutiny that the Committee seeks to apply. <BR /> <BR />Officials also informed the Committee that financial sustainability will be key to transformation. The Department's work with the Budget sustainability plan examines improvements in the Budget process, including how best to connect the Budget process with strategic decisions, including PFG targets. That has been a key ask from the Committee and has been highlighted by multiple stakeholders. The Budget must be linked to the Programme for Government for both to be properly scrutinised by Statutory Committees.”
“During the briefing, the Department of Finance officials highlighted the fact that, as well as its financial oversight role with respect to the PFG, the Department has a vital role in other key elements under the reform and transformation of public services, which is the immediate priority. As officials have regularly reminded the Committee, the ongoing budgetary restrictions mean that that priority is central to the Programme for Government. Central to that is the work of the interim public-sector transformation board and its efforts to make recommendations to the Finance Minister on utilising £235 million of transformation funding over five years. The Committee has applied considerable energy to scrutinising that body and has further scrutiny plans.”
“Thank you Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. I speak today on behalf of the Finance Committee as the Chair focuses on his role as leader of the Opposition. I thank the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister for bringing forward the Programme for Government and for their words in the Chamber today. It is important for me to state that, as the finalised Programme for Government was published only on Friday afternoon, the Finance Committee has not had time to consider it. It would have been helpful if time had been provided for Committees to consider the PFG before the debate. However, we are where we are. Therefore, my speech will reflect the scrutiny that the Finance Committee undertook of the draft PFG. <BR /> <BR />The Committee was briefed on the Department of Finance's aspects of the PFG on 2 October 2024.”
“<BR /> <BR />The DUP will support the Bill and hopes that parties across the House also do so in order to move forward and keep our services running. We look forward to debating the full 2025-26 Budget.”
“As we roll forward 45% of 2024-25 spend into 2025-26, with the expectation of a potential 60% to 70% allocation in June, we will spend money in April, May and June — we will overspend, effectively — on the increase to employers' National Insurance, which is approximately £17 million every month, until we know what we are getting. I ask the Minister to keep making that point and to remind Departments, as we remind other Committees, to keep an eye on that scrutiny, because, until we know what we will see coming into the Budget from the Treasury, we do not know what we are mitigating and we will be under incredible pressure. I urge the Minister to continue to press for as much as possible from Treasury to cover that additional cost.”
“<BR /> <BR />I will make the point again about the increase to employers' National Insurance contributions. I thank the Minister for providing clarity to the Finance Committee last week that, for central government and non-departmental public bodies (NDPBs), there will be an additional cost of £200 million next year and approximately £250 million when you add GPs, dentists and local government, so it is an extremely high additional pressure. Whilst there are conversations on and an expectation of Barnett consequentials, we do not yet have a formal commitment on anything.”
“I thank the Minister for bringing the Bill to the House. Whilst accelerated passage is not ideal, we all understand that this is where we are if we want to keep public services running. Like the Chair of the Finance Committee, my party supports a review of the wording of Standing Orders on due consideration by the Committee. <BR /> <BR />As we debate the Budget Bill, it is important that we have collective agreement that is in the interests of dealing with the financial pressures that face our front-line services and keeping everything running. However, as we know, the Budget Bill does not deal with the full 2025-26 Budget, which is out for consultation. We will debate that at length in the future. We are applying the 45% — it is approximately 45%, as was pointed out previously — to roll forward into 2025-26.”
“Thank you, Minister, for your answer. Questions are often brought to the Education Minister about decisions that the Education Authority has taken, and the Health Minister has answered questions on health trusts in particular. Why do you not feel, as Justice Minister, that that is information that you could present to the House?”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. Childcare is critical infrastructure for our economy in Northern Ireland. The sector is on its knees. We see reports across the board of providers having to increase their fees, passing on costs to parents and, effectively, putting people out of work, and the sector says that a number of providers face closure in the weeks and months ahead. That would be catastrophic for our economy. Minister, what are you doing to safeguard that sector, thereby safeguarding our economy in Northern Ireland by helping people to get out to work and stay in their jobs?”
“<BR /> <BR />We support the progression of the Budget Bill today, but we do so with our eyes wide open to the real financial challenges that we face. We need to move forward with a collective approach in the Assembly and from our Ministers to send a strong message to ratepayers that we are committed to facing the financial pressures that lie ahead and to delivering front-line services.”
“The proposal to remove reliefs from those who already pay their rates is out for consultation. That will squeeze them further to raise £2 million or £4 million on those items. On the other hand, over £115 million worth of prior years' rates bills have still not been collected, and £65 million worth of rates bills were written off in the past five years. Rather than increasing taxes further for hard-pressed families and businesses who already pay, why not focus on collecting the huge outstanding bills that would increase revenue substantially more? <BR /> <BR />Those are just some of the concerning issues that need to be addressed. Every Department needs to demonstrate its work to reduce the waste of resources.”
“An overspend of £2·45 billion on major capital projects is a serious amount of money, and we really need to be seen to address that for the confidence of the public. <BR /> <BR />In the Department of Finance, we see the increasing cost of public-sector sick pay. It cost £44 million in 2023-24 and is set to increase this year. With individual Departments saying that it is a Department of Finance issue to manage sick leave and the Department of Finance having no targets to reduce or investigate cultures, it is of huge concern and needs to be addressed. We need to value our Civil Service staff and understand what is happening there. <BR /> <BR />Another significant issue is the level of uncollected rates debt in Northern Ireland, which my colleague Paul Frew mentioned.”
“As we look into the new financial year, we need to make sure that all Departments take steps to ensure that they deliver value for money within the allocations provided. Steps need to be taken to ensure that projects are delivered on time and within budget. <BR /> <BR />The recent Audit Office report highlighted the £2·45 billion overspend on major capital projects, about which there are serious questions to be answered. Comments have been made on the issue, but I do not feel that the blame is being laid solely at the feet of civil servants. There has been a failure to follow up on significant recommendations that span six years, and there are responsibilities for everyone here.”
“<BR /> <BR />As I noted yesterday, it is unacceptable that we do not have clear sight of the total cost of the increase in employers' National Insurance contributions. I welcome the Minister's opening remarks, in which he committed to writing to the Finance Committee and working with us to clarify the progress on that. The Minister said that the problem is that Treasury has not yet said how much it will provide, but we need to see clarity on the total cost. How much is it, and how much has the Minister asked Treasury for? <BR /> <BR />We welcome it once again that, in the forthcoming 2025-26 year, we will go forward with a draft Budget and a draft Programme for Government, and we aim to have those aligned. It is our hope and expectation that all parties and Ministers will support the Budget Bill.”
“<BR /> <BR />On the Department of Finance accounts specifically, I thank the Finance Minister and his predecessor, Dr Caoimhe Archibald, who, with the support of their officials, have led by example through their professionalism in returns, their management of balanced budget targets and their provision of detailed projections, including highlighting in this week's Committee papers the specific additional cost to the Department of Finance core of the increase in employers' National Insurance contributions. I encourage the Minister, from his central position of oversight, to share how they did that and ask other Departments to follow suit to provide more complete and meaningful budget projections to help Committees in their scrutiny.”
“I record my sincere thanks to the Department of Finance Budget officials who regularly and comprehensively brief our Finance Committee on departmental finance and the wider Budget process. They do an excellent job, and we on the Finance Committee want to support their good work and ensure that other Committees are able to conduct the same quality of scrutiny of their Department's accounts. It is concerning that so many other Committees have concerns about the lack of detail on aspects of their Department's finances.”
“Every birthday is a celebration of the gift of life, yet, each year, across the UK, due to abortion, hundreds of thousands of women and babies will never experience a birthday. That reality drives us all forward with renewed purpose and commitment. We stand together with people from every background and of all faiths and none. We stand for a life-affirming culture and the recognition and protection of every human life. Every life matters.”
“We continue to work with like-minded people to explore what more the Department of Health can do to repeal the legislation, which was forced on us by Westminster, and to introduce life-affirming laws and strategies. The battle to win hearts and minds for the sanctity of life must and will continue. We must ensure that women who face crisis pregnancies are met with real support and life-affirming choices rather than with a system that too often leads them down the path of abortion. <BR /> <BR />This month marks one year since the organisation Both Lives relaunched with a refreshed brand and a UK-wide presence. That organisation campaigns on the values of the life and health of women and unborn children and pursues the well-being of both.”
“In 2023-24, 2,792 abortions were performed. That is 624 more than the previous year's total of 2,168. Those are not just statistics: each number represents a precious life lost — a child who will never have the chance to take their first breath and a mother who is left to bear the lifelong impact of the decision. For so many across Northern Ireland, it is a cause of profound grief and heartbreak to learn of the scale of abortion here. <BR /> <BR />It is my firm belief that we in Northern Ireland remain a majority pro-life people, as evidenced by the most recent Northern Ireland Office consultation, in which the voice of the people clearly rejected the imposition of Westminster's extreme abortion laws here.”
“Every life matters. From the moment that a baby is formed in its mother's womb, that is a life. From the moment that a woman finds out that she is pregnant, she has a baby. She knows her due date, what age the baby will be at its first Christmas and its first summer and when it will go to school. When that pregnancy ends in loss, it brings utter devastation. Across the Chamber, that was acknowledged in the cross-party support for the introduction of baby loss certificates in Northern Ireland. Every baby matters. Every life should be recognised and its loss mourned. <BR /> <BR />The latest abortion statistics for Northern Ireland therefore cause me deep concern. They show that there has been a 28·8% increase in the number of abortions carried out in the past year.”
“Following on from the previous question, when the Government made the announcement back in October, charities and businesses in my constituency were able to tell me that it would cost them £11,400 or £42,150. Within days, people knew exactly how much it was going to cost them. We are still looking at responses in the ballpark of over £200 million. How much is it going to cost Northern Ireland public services for this increase?”
“How important does the deputy First Minister think that the role of social media was in recent communications about storm Éowyn?”
“The extent to which that deficit is bridged will also determine the scale of ambition that individual Departments show towards reform and transformation agendas. We need urgently to see evidence that the Minister of Finance is leaving no stone unturned in making the case for that funding in full from Treasury. <BR /> <BR />There is a concern that the 45% of last year's approved expenditure that is being brought forward as part of a Vote on Account may not go as far when taking into account the huge hole that is left by the National Insurance contribution hike. We need to see commitment to address preventable waste in the system, and we will look at that in detail when we move to the Budget debate tomorrow. We support the Supply resolutions today.”
“<BR /> <BR />It remains unacceptable, however, that the Minister of Finance has not yet published an informed estimate of the additional money that is required for the next financial year to offset the rise in employers' National Insurance contributions for major public-sector employers, contracted providers such as GPs and dentists, and the voluntary and community sector organisations, all of which are integral to the delivery of vital services. Providing that clarity is critical. A reference to a general figure of over £200 million is not good enough. We need specifics. The outcome of any negotiation on that with Treasury will have a bearing on the viability of some voluntary organisations and the sustainability of services.”
“The DUP led the charge for the new needs-based funding model for Northern Ireland. The Government have been able to accept a new definition of need, and it is welcome that we look to the forthcoming 2025-26 financial year to have a Budget and a Programme for Government that align, which has not been the case for some time. Although we still lack the certainty and stability of a multi-year settlement, creating synergies between expenditure and the Executive's agreed priorities, even in the short term, is constructive and will enable Committees to engage in more informed scrutiny of spending.”
“The authorisation of additional resources and issues from the Northern Ireland Consolidated Fund in respect of Excess Votes is given legislative authority in the corresponding Budget Act. The Statement of Excesses that has been put forward by the Northern Ireland Assembly Commission, the Department for Communities and the Utility Regulator is clearly documented and the PAC has indicated that it is content with that. <BR /> <BR />As Members are aware, this debate is a largely technical exercise, and the Committee has applied an appropriate degree of scrutiny on that basis. While the timing and timescales are not ideal, the Committee will support today's Supply resolution motions. <BR /> <BR />I will now speak briefly as the DUP's finance spokesperson. We are in an improved position compared with this time last year.”
“Prior to a vote being sought, the resource accounts for each Estimate are prepared by the relevant Department or body and are examined and certified by the Comptroller and Auditor General and laid before the Assembly. A report by the C&AG is made on any such accounts where categories exceed the amounts or fall outside the categories of expenditure that are authorised by the Assembly. <BR /> <BR />Where sufficient savings or surplus income are available to be used to offset the excess expenditure, the Excess Vote is for only a token sum of £1,000. A Statement of Excesses is normally presented to the Assembly following a report by the Public Accounts Committee, confirming that it recommends the sums necessary being provided by Excess Votes.”
“It is anticipated that the length of time required to get the 2025-26 Budget in place through the Budget (No. 2) Bill will be shorter. Members are aware that the Vote on Account does not set the 2025-26 Budget; it is merely an agreement that 45% of the current year's Budget can be drawn down in the early part of the 2025-26 financial year before the Budget has been legislated for. <BR /> <BR />As Members know, the Statement of Excesses sets out the amount of resources and cash that we are being asked to grant in an Excess Vote. The vote is required when expenditure exceeds the amounts or falls outside the categories of expenditure — the ambit — that we approved in the Main and Supplementary Estimates and authorised in the related Budget Acts.”
“The Committee has monitored the Department's budget carefully throughout this financial cycle, with regular briefings following monitoring rounds. The funding inflows to the Department have tended to be for strategically important systems such as Integr8 and NOVA, which will have wide-ranging impacts and benefits. The Committee, however, remains concerned by the unquantifiable contingent liabilities that the Department continues to carry. Those are highlighted in the Estimates memorandum and a briefing on them has been scheduled for early March. <BR /> <BR />I now turn to the Vote on Account. Members will have noticed that at 45%, the rate is more than that applied in the past. Members will recall that the Vote on Account last year was an unusual 65%, which allowed a longer period to get the next financial year's Budget in place.”
“While the Finance Committee keeps a close eye on the use of sole authority in the Budget Bill, I will not comment on that, as the Committee Chair will deal with it when he speaks for the Committee in tomorrow's Budget Bill debate. I will also let him deal with the request that was made to the Committee for accelerated passage for the Budget Bill. <BR /> <BR />I now turn briefly to the Department of Finance's Estimates. The Department is not a programme-heavy Department and, as a result, it does not have a significant budget. What it lacks in budget, however, it makes up for in strategic importance, not least in its role in overarching budget management across the Departments and its ownership of rating policy — the Executive's single key fiscal lever.”
“There are, of course, some flexibilities, such as the Budget exchange scheme, but the Treasury is not known for its willingness to tolerate poor budgeting.”
“We have already seen a recent allocation of consequentials disbursed by the Finance Minister, which was unexpected after the January monitoring round. A total of £183·289 million in headroom was incorporated into the Estimates, comprising £113·8 million in capital DEL and £69·5 million in resource DEL. That has been added to address a variety of pressures, including unmet bids following January monitoring and pressures following storm Éowyn. As we saw in the recent written ministerial statement, further funds have been allocated for those purposes. Whilst headroom gives Departments flexibility to spend additional allocations that they may receive, they are also constrained by their Budget allocation. Budgets must, by law, be balanced by the end of the financial year.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Executive have factored a certain amount of headroom into the SSEs in case funds become available late in the current financial year.”
“<BR /> <BR />Departments need to become better at living within their means, as officials have clearly stated to the Finance Committee. Scrutiny of Departments' budgets should be easier going forward with the prospect of multi-annual Budgets, linkage between Budgets and the Programme for Government and the production of five-year budget plans by Departments accompanied by a rough baseline budget. Those are all aspects of the Budget sustainability plan and the Budget improvement road map that derive from conditions set by the Executive restoration package settlement. That is the UK Government's way of encouraging the Executive to live within their means and to budget with much greater transparency and clarity.”
“As the tables showing the changes between the Main and spring Supplementary Estimates illustrate, this has been an exceptional year for Barnett consequentials. Those have combined with additional funding through the Executive's restoration package settlement and the fiscal floor of 124%, applied through the interim fiscal framework, to provide significant additional funding for the Executive. <BR /> <BR />Finance officials have been clear with the Committee that, although many of those gains were baselined for 2025-26 — we are delighted by that — there will not be the same levels of consequentials bolstering our budgets in the coming financial year. I encourage statutory Committees to monitor closely overcommitments made by Departments in the coming year, as it is unlikely that consequentials can be relied on to fill the gaps.”
“The Committee is also aware that not every Committee receives the information and engagement that it should from its Department. That is not acceptable. Committees must be given the appropriate information and time to do their scrutiny job. <BR /> <BR />The 2024-25 spring Supplementary Estimates are aligned with the latest agreed budget position across Departments. The January monitoring position was agreed by the Executive on 16 January 2025. The SSEs document sets out the provision included in the spring Supplementary Estimates beyond the outcome of the Executive's 2024-25 final plan. Unlike this time last year, we find ourselves in more normal circumstances with regard to the 2024-25 SSEs.”
“Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. I will speak on behalf of the Finance Committee, allowing the Chair to focus on his role as leader of the Opposition. <BR /> <BR />The Committee received a briefing from officials on the 2024-25 spring Supplementary Estimates, the 2025-26 Vote on Account and the 2023-24 Statement of Excesses at its meeting on 12 February. On behalf of the members, I would like to thank officials for that. As Members will be aware, the Budget process is complex and littered with technical language that is often difficult to understand. The Finance Committee is working hard to support the other statutory Committees in their Budget scrutiny. We will continue to seek to break down the information that is available into more digestible chunks, accompanied by a clearer narrative.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement and his strong action to take every step to safeguard the best use of public funds. Does the Minister agree that those who have cheated the system should be pursued and that overpaid benefits should be recovered?”
“There is huge potential for our Ministers to work together to find solutions in order to provide the necessary support for our hospitality sector.”
“<BR /> <BR />There is also the question of who foots the bill. Devolution of VAT is presumably viewed by the Members who tabled the motion as a means to an end, with the end being the ability to vary and reduce the hospitality VAT rate relative to other UK regions. How would that impact on the Executive's ability to fund, deliver and improve vital public services? How would the shortfall impact on our block grant? Where is the evidence or plan that shows that medium- or long-term growth would outweigh the short-term cost of devolving those powers? <BR /> <BR />A UK-wide approach to reducing VAT rates would provide a level of assurance about unintended fiscal consequences for Northern Ireland. We appreciate, however, that high VAT is not the only issue of concern to the sector.”