Diane Forsythe
South Down · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“The Schomberg Society and the staff and pupils of Kilkeel Primary School worked hard alongside the team from Blue Eagle Productions, especially director Rosie McClelland, to deliver a fantastic performance. We saw Northern Ireland's history, heritage and the pupils' great talent shining through.”
“<BR /> <BR />The production was an excellent way to mark that important historic event and for those P7 pupils to bring their time in primary school to a close. It was bittersweet for the year group, as one of their dear classmates was notably missing.”
“As we come to the end of another school term, I pay tribute to some excellent work at Kilkeel Primary School in my constituency, especially by the P7s. I declare an interest, as my son is one of them.”
“Mrs McCabe, the school principal, shared with the children the words of Proverbs chapter 17, verse 17 on how true friends love at all times — through the good times and the hardships of life. I thank Mrs McCabe for her leadership.”
“The Minister will not be surprised by my question on the delay of the accounts certification on SEUPB, as we are in June 2026, 18 months after the end of financial year 2024. Those accounts have still not been certified in both jurisdictions, and a full further financial year has since passed.”
“Minister, you say that you want to avoid unintended consequences for businesses and property owners, but those measures do nothing for existing long-term businesses that are struggling on, already occupy premises and cannot afford to invest in their properties, and there will be consequences for them.”
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“Just as every household knows when it needs to tighten its budget across spending streams when it has less money, the Northern Ireland Executive need to tighten their budgets across every Department when they have less money. This is a challenging Budget. We would like to see more money, and our DUP representatives will continue the fight for more. In the meantime, we need to see every Department take active steps to acknowledge its budget, act responsibly and do its best to deliver within it. <BR /> <BR />The people of Northern Ireland deserve to know that all their Ministers will do their best to spend responsibly, despite being dissatisfied. How else will the Northern Ireland Assembly and the Executive ever prove to the UK Treasury that we can manage more funding well?”
“However, fundamental problems remain unresolved. While other parties welcomed the financial package presented by the Government on the return of devolution earlier this year, it was the DUP that made it clear that what was offered fell well short of what was required to put public finances on a stable footing. The failure to baseline the formula from the CSR period in 2022 will lead us to a further cliff edge in just two years' time. At that point, funding levels will again drop below what is required to fairly and sustainably fund our services here. We in the DUP believe that that situation is unacceptable, and we are committed, as we have been, to working on that on a long-term basis. <BR /> <BR />In the meantime, every party here needs to be honest and realistic about our finances in Northern Ireland.”
“The Committee also notes the superannuation and other allowances contained in the Department of Finance's second request for resources. <BR /> <BR />While the Committee is aware that the Main Estimates Supply resolution debate reflects a largely technical exercise, it has applied an appropriate degree of scrutiny. On the basis of members' agreement at our meeting on 26 June to accelerated passage for the Budget (No. 2) Bill, the Committee for Finance supports today's Supply resolution motions. <BR /> <BR />I will now add some add comments as DUP finance spokesperson. The Democratic Unionist Party and Gavin Robinson MP have long led the charge for a new needs-based funding model for Northern Ireland. With that campaign now mainstream, the Government have been forced to accept a new definition of our need going forward.”
“The Department has made a request for resources of a net cash requirement of £282 million and a further request for resources net cash requirement with respect to pension schemes that it manages of £83 million. As Members will be aware, Finance is one of four Departments that have an additional request for resources (RfR) covering pension schemes, the others being Health, Justice and Education. The Department's Main Estimates reflect its position as an administrative Department that provides shared services across Departments. As such, the significant majority of its budget is used for administrative rather than programme purposes. The Committee has taken a specific interest in the Department of Finance's contingent liabilities outlined in the Main Estimates and liaised closely with the Department on them.”
“When briefing the Committee, Department of Finance officials indicated that it is more appropriate to compare like with like; that is the opening positions for different financial years or the closing or actual out-turn position for different years. The sizeable in-year funding flows that we see make that the most sensible way to compare Budgets. The Fiscal Council has indicated that the dependence of many Departments on those in-year allocations is symptomatic of our inadequate block grant and provides a strong case for raising our fiscal floor to reflect our actual financial needs. <BR /> <BR />I now turn to the Department of Finance's Estimates.”
“Considering the work that is required from the Executive restoration package settlement, the Fiscal Council's position must be regularised as soon as possible. The Committee hopes that legislation will be forthcoming before the end of 2024. While the Committee understands the difficulties that the absence of an Executive has caused, the use of sole authority is less than ideal, and the Committee will be watching closely to see how items requiring the use of sole authority in the Main Estimates are legislated for. <BR /> <BR />The Main Estimates highlight the planned expenditure for 2024-25 and the provisional out-turn for 2023-24 for each Department and body. Members will be aware of the debates that there have been on comparing the opening position for 2024-25 with the provisional out-turn for 2023-24.”
“The Committee will play an active part in ensuring that Northern Ireland gets a better Budget allocation from the UK Government and a revised fiscal floor that is much more reflective of our very different needs. <BR /> <BR />I turn to table 5 of the Main Estimates document. The Committee noted expenditure in excess of £28 million for which sole authority is sought. As Members are aware, the use of sole authority allows the Assembly to approve expenditure and for it to be legislated for in the Budget Bill where there is no other legislative cover. With respect to the Department of Finance, sole authority is sought for the Fiscal Council. The Committee has pressed and continues to press for legislation to put the independent Fiscal Council on a legislative footing.”
“<BR /> <BR />Members will recall that, in April, the Assembly was asked to agree a larger than normal Vote on Account — 65% of the 2023-24 Budget — that would be sufficient to last until after the summer recess. Today's Main Estimates will begin the process to take us beyond that, and the Budget (No. 2) Bill will provide legislative authority to the Main Estimates, if they are agreed today. <BR /> <BR />Members will know that it is no secret that the 2024-25 Budget is extremely challenging, even with the additional support from the Executive restoration package settlement and the progress that has been made on a fiscal floor. While the June monitoring round will provide much-needed further funding, it is not sustainable for Departments to rely on the capricious nature of Barnett consequentials to keep them afloat.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Financial Reporting Act (Northern Ireland) 2022 delivered a number of changes to how financial information is presented in the Estimates and the associated Budget Bill, including clearer alignment of financial information between Budgets, Estimates and accounts and the expenditure of arm's-length bodies and separate controls in the Budget Bill regarding departmental expenditure limits, annually managed expenditure (AME) and non-Budget expenditure. The Committee believes that, while those changes are helpful, there is much more to be done to ensure that budgetary information that Statutory Committees receive is fulsome and timely. The Committee will continue to press for greater transparency and clarity for Committees at every stage of the Budget process.”
“The Committee is aware that the Department of Finance did not commission Estimates memoranda from Departments for that exercise, despite that being part of its guidance. Another Statutory Committee raised that as an issue, and the Finance Committee will pursue it with the Department. Such guidelines are in place to create greater transparency in the Budget process, and they are important tools for Committees in their scrutiny of Departments' budgets. <BR /> <BR />At its meeting on 19 June, the Committee noted the Statement of Excesses. However, as that is primarily an issue for the Public Accounts Committee, I will not offer any Committee view.”
“The Committee received a briefing from officials on the Main Estimates and the Statement of Excesses at its meeting on 19 June. On behalf of members, I thank officials for that. Additionally, the Committee was briefed on the Budget (No. 2) Bill that the Minister will introduce later today and which will have its Second Stage tomorrow. <BR /> <BR />Members will be aware that, since the resumption of Assembly business in February, the Budget process has been anything but normal. While the Finance Committee has worked hard to assert its overarching Budget scrutiny role, members are concerned that other Statutory Committees have not been afforded the same scrutiny opportunities for their respective Departments' budgets.”
“I thank the Minister for her statement, which sets out a range of different financial settlements. In particular, I welcome the £43·7 million that was agreed to settle the Education Authority pay and grading review. I commend the work of the Minister, alongside the Education Minister, in achieving that. In light of the announcements that have been made in the statement and the £121 million additional resource DEL for Health, has the Health Minister's position on whether he will support your Budget changed?”
“I thank the Minister for his statement and answers so far. Can he advise when he expects the Loughs Agency annual report and accounts for 2022 and 2023 to be laid in the Assembly? Are there any issues of concern in those that, the Minister thinks, should be highlighted at this point?”
“I want to speak about the commitment on continued high-quality bathing water in paragraph 15. I welcome the inclusion of that, but I represent the South Down coastal area, and, coming into the summer, there are recurring issues with the bathing waters, particularly around Newcastle. I know that those issues also reach into North Down. Can the Minister clarify what opportunities were discussed for addressing bathing waters and how that will affect us here, particularly on the County Down coast?”
“How will the Executive Office ensure that the ongoing work is trauma-informed?”
“Tens of thousands of people from across Northern Ireland and beyond will celebrate by attending the pageant, the concert and the fireworks. I invite colleagues from across the Chamber to come to enjoy and celebrate that positive Ulster-Scots event and wish the Schomberg Society every success.”
“Last week, in my constituency of South Down, we celebrated the opening by the Schomberg Society in the kingdom of Mourne of a new Ulster-Scots centre in Kilkeel called the Hairtlan Hub, of which I am proud to be a patron. The centre will take forward education and Ulster-Scots culture and sports within our community, and I wish the Schomberg Society every success with that. I also wish it well with its Hairtlan Festival 2024, which starts this Thursday, with the launch of fUSe FM Mourne and a gathering at the Silent Valley. These two weeks in the kingdom of Mourne lead the way with a series of events, as we inspire people within Ulster-Scots tradition across Northern Ireland to gather. I welcome everyone to the kingdom of Mourne to celebrate. The festival will culminate in the pageant on 11 July.”
“I thank the Minister for confirming the recruitment in respect of the vacancy of the chief executive's office. Can she confirm that all other director and senior management posts in the ombudsman's office are currently filled and operational in the absence of the ombudsman?”
“I am pleased to chair the recently formed all-party group on voluntary and community sector. There is a real feeling in the sector that it is not valued by the Departments and its outcomes are not recognised. I invite the Minister to engage with the all-party group and perhaps attend an upcoming meeting to satisfy people that he recognises their value in this term.”
“Will the deputy First Minister outline how the impacts of the good relations projects are measured?”
“Thank you, Minister, for today's statement. I note you mentioned the increased headcount approved for the SEUPB. Given this year's challenging budget and the significant pressures and cuts across your Department in IT, HR and Land and Property Services, what impact will those Department of Finance budget cuts have on the SEUPB?”
“Minister, will you consider looking again, in the short term, at the rates relief for childcare settings, given that the £25 million settlement has a strand for business support, whereby the Department for the Economy and Invest NI will support businesses that are struggling? I am sure that she will appreciate that, although some are getting relief that means paying less than £7,500, most childcare settings are hitting a higher rate than that under the current business rates relief system. I ask her to consider —”
“The DUP is committed to delivering and moving forward whilst fighting for a better and sustainable financial package. We support the motion.”
“They deserve to have an Executive and Ministers committed to doing their best to maximise delivery where they can. Our DUP Ministers are doing that by delivering where they can. Our DUP Education Minister is working hard and delivering on childcare, teachers' pay, improved SEN provision and new special schools. He stands ready to deliver more at the next available opportunity. Our DUP Communities Minister worked hard to deliver on solutions for defective premises and a sign language Act —.”
“No, thank you. <BR /> <BR />Every Minister in the Executive was disappointed by their award, but every Minister, bar one, has put the interests of Northern Ireland first. The Budget is challenging, and we have two options. One is to take it as the best that we have right now and work hard to deliver the best outcomes whilst continuing the fight for more funding for services. The second option is to reject it, meaning that nobody gets anything: services come to a halt because the money stops; voluntary and community sector organisations immediately hit the cliff edge, as nothing can be approved beyond June; and the people of Northern Ireland have no public services and face despair. <BR /> <BR />The people of Northern Ireland deserve better.”
“Gavin Robinson MP started those conversations years ago and has been relentless in his campaign to deliver improved fiscal arrangements for Northern Ireland, alongside our DUP MPs and Lords. The DUP was the only party to come out of Hillsborough Castle last year stating clearly that the financial package on offer was nowhere near enough to give Northern Ireland the solutions and sustainable financial future that it needed and deserved. Our MP team continued the fight, unlike others who cheered and praised this great package but, when faced with it in the Executive, now proclaim that it is not enough, and some cannot even support adopting a Budget to enable Departments to function. Every Minister in the Executive pitched for significantly more than they were allocated.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Nevin Economic Research Institute suggested that revenue raising is not the answer to our budgetary challenges; rather, the devolved Administrations need to be properly empowered by the UK Government to work. The Fiscal Council stated that an increase in the regional rate would need to be significant to make an impact on the Budget. <BR /> <BR />That was a brief account of the Committee's report. Full details are on the Committee's web pages. <BR /> <BR />I will now speak as the DUP's finance spokesperson. We recognise the incredible challenges of this Budget but welcome the progress on the improved and continuing improvements to the fiscal framework.”
“<BR /> <BR />Fiscal issues and revenue raising were brought into focus by the Executive restoration package settlement. The Fiscal Council highlighted that the settlement provided 5% of the Budget. The council believed that the level of in-year transfers to Departments in 2023-24 highlighted the underfunding that Northern Ireland faces, reinforcing the need for a fiscal floor needs adjustment that the interim fiscal framework confirms at 24%, subject to proof that it should change. All forthcoming Barnett consequentials will attract that adjustment. The Committee greatly welcomes that and will actively support the work that needs to be done around it.”
“<BR /> <BR />Reform and sustainability were highlighted by a number of contributors to our report. The Committee was told that the issue for health was not resources but reform. The strong message from contributors to the report is that reform is now essential against a backdrop of a challenging Budget and the sustainability required by the Executive restoration package settlement. The Executive must improve their communication with the public about what "reform" or "transformation" mean, as they are almost always associated with closures in health and education rather than increased opportunities and services. The Executive need to emphasise that local provision does not always equate to the best provision. The scope of an Executive Budget sustainability plan was outlined in the interim fiscal framework.”
“The Construction Employers Federation (CEF) advocated an infrastructure commission and prioritised Budgets. It is vital that the Executive maximise their use of the reinvestment and reform initiative to ensure that the £220 million available, as highlighted in the Executive restoration package settlement, is used in the current financial year. <BR /> <BR />Good quality childcare is a key element in creating a solid foundation for addressing our skills deficit and economic growth, as well as being a vital part of any forthcoming Programme for Government. The lack of affordable, readily available childcare creates a poverty trap, making some people unable to go to work and unable to access opportunities to acquire skills. Employers for Childcare provided evidence in support of that to the Committee.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Committee is greatly concerned about the lack of scrutiny of the Budget. Statutory Committees have had little opportunity to scrutinise the budgets brought forward by Departments. Committee scrutiny is a statutory role and should not, in any way, be seen as being at the discretion of the corresponding Department. In the absence of a public consultation, scrutiny by Statutory Committees becomes even more important. <BR /> <BR />In its evidence to the Committee, Ulster University Economic Policy Centre highlighted the need for strategic budgeting to support economic growth. It suggested that Departments should put much greater emphasis on aspects of their remit that drive economic growth through their budgeting. Indeed, that should have formed a key strand of the Programme for Government.”
“<BR /> <BR />The necessity of a Programme for Government to facilitate good budgeting was raised by most contributors to the Committee's report, including Social Enterprise NI and the Northern Ireland Council for Voluntary Action (NICVA). A Programme for Government would make budgeting easier, thus mitigating some of the challenges that this Budget presents, with bids linked to and prioritised against it. In their evidence to the Committee, the Nevin Economic Research Institute and Pivotal highlighted a lack of any strategic goal setting underpinning the Budget. The Chartered Institute of Public Finance and Accountancy (CIPFA) advocated for Budget stability and sustainability through a five- to 10-year Programme for Government, with strategic objectives to which all departmental and arm's-length bodies' business plans would align.”
“Although the Budget is 7% higher than the Secretary of State's Budget for 2023-24, it is 2% lower than the final plan that Departments were working to by the end of 2023-24. <BR /> <BR />This is our tenth single-year Budget in a row. Most contributors to the Committee's report advocate the position that multi-year Budgets offer significantly greater stability, certainty and sustainability for Departments and the economy more widely. The Committee acknowledges that the Executive's ability to set multi-year Budgets is constrained by what the UK Government do, but single-year Budgets see rash decisions being made by deploying funds should those need to be used before the cliff edge of the end of the financial year, and that is made worse by the Budget exchange scheme's being too limited in scope and size.”
“Indeed, resource bids amounted to three times the resource available for allocation. The Committee acknowledges that a significant part of the Executive restoration package settlement from the UK Government met pay pressures. Members are mindful, however, that a number of pay claims across a range of sectors that have not yet been settled or met need to be completed out of extremely limited resources. The Fiscal Council notes a real-terms fall in resource and capital in this Budget compared with the 2023-24 Budget as being a red flag. The council sees a further red flag in every Department having budgeted for a 3% wage growth, meaning that they start the fiscal year with an inbuilt wage-cost pressure.”
“In light of the work that the Department is required to do under the interim fiscal framework, Committee members strongly advocate appropriate resourcing being immediately forthcoming. <BR /> <BR />The Committee was able to identify a number of distinct themes in the 2024-25 draft Executive Budget. Those include the challenging nature of the Budget; the problems associated with having yet another single-year Budget; the need for a Programme for Government; the lack of scrutiny applied to this Budget; the need for strategic budgeting to support economic growth; the importance of childcare; reform and sustainability; and fiscal issues and revenue raising. There is no doubt that this is a challenging Budget. The limitations of the Budget envelope mean that a significant number of bids submitted by Departments could not be met.”
“The first briefing was based on a flat-cash position, and, at that point, Committee members noted the challenging position and the proposals to address a £25 million shortfall. Some proposals would have had a severe limiting impact on reform initiatives that could be seen as providing significant efficiencies in the long term. The Committee sought information on the specific costs and implications if NOVA and Integr8 were to be paused or stopped and information on new projects that could not be taken forward owing to budgetary constraints. A Budget update from the Department on 22 May confirmed its budget position, with funding for Integr8 and NOVA but an £18 million shortfall.”
“I thank the Minister for her comments, and I am pleased to speak on behalf of the Finance Committee. As Members will be aware, the Finance Committee not only scrutinises the Department of Finance's budget but takes a strategic view of the Budget as a whole and, where and when possible, supports the other Statutory Committees in their scrutiny. In the short time available to it, the Committee undertook an engagement exercise to scrutinise the draft Executive Budget. The Committee's report was published last Friday, and Members received a link to it. We are grateful to the officials, academics and stakeholders who provided the evidence on which the report is based. <BR /> <BR />The Committee took evidence from Department of Finance officials on 10 April and 22 May on the Department's own budget.”
“Payments need to be made, and we need to see improvements when it comes to any future schemes.”
“I also ask the Minister whether the full £10 million cost associated with the compensation claims that was announced by her predecessor in February 2024 has been accrued as expenditure by the Department for the Economy in the 2023-24 financial year, with the intention to spend it. <BR /> <BR />The floods devastated our communities. The infrastructure failures are still visible and unresolved, with no report from DFI on the responses or lessons learned. Roads in my constituency are still partially closed seven months on, following landslides in Rostrevor, and the promised repairs needed because of the devastation in Ballinran have not been completed. The failure of the Department for the Economy to deliver the money promised to businesses in a timely manner is a disgrace, and the Minister needs to make it a priority today.”
“If there were problems with the scheme, why did the Minister not intervene and why did we have to learn of the scale of the issue through the media? The failure to deliver dramatically affects those suffering and the confidence of our communities and of the entire population of Northern Ireland, because they lose faith in our Government's delivery on financial promises that were made. My question for written answer asked the Minister how much of the £10 million from the enhanced flood support scheme has been paid out. Following the media reports today, it certainly seems that it is well below what has been promised. I want urgent clarity on that.”
“The Economy Minister announced the release of a further £10 million in February 2024, giving much hope to many, but, today, on 21 May 2024, we hear that payments still have not reached businesses that have suffered significant loss. <BR /> <BR />The failure to get the money, as promised, to those who have suffered is unacceptable and needs to be explained. It cannot be delayed any further. Those businesses have suffered extreme losses. Many have closed because they cannot afford to meet the bills associated with their lost stock. Many have run up debt to stay open, in the hope of receiving the promised relief soon. People deserve to get that which they have been promised and get it promptly. <BR /> <BR />I was aware of some delays and submitted a question for written answer to the Minister last week.”
“This morning, I was horrified to hear on the news that almost 100 businesses that were affected by the extreme flooding last October and November are still waiting, over six months on, on their payments from a Department for the Economy compensation scheme. Last October and November, following extreme weather, south Down, Newry and Portadown suffered devastation to infrastructure and many businesses. Those businesses were destroyed — their stock and furniture and people's livelihoods. Hearts were broken throughout families in the community. <BR /> <BR />The financial response was always slow, and all local representatives called for urgent support. In late 2023, £15 million of support was announced, with some £7,500 paid to businesses before Christmas.”
“I thank the Minister for his response. What will the Minister do to improve that situation?”
“Will the Minister commit to working with third-party providers like Christians Against Poverty (CAP), who also play such a valuable role in supporting the most vulnerable people in local communities?”
“The police are obviously under immense pressure. In South Down, we face some very specific problems relating to the wide area that the constituency covers and the rural nature of our policing. Does the Minister have any indication of any specific areas of Northern Ireland in which there is a particular shortage of PSNI officers or of any regional or rural/urban disparity?”
“Every child deserves the best start in life, and children in South Down with special educational needs face disadvantage. That situation needs to improve. All children with special educational needs deserve to be placed in a timely manner in advance of September 2024. <BR /> <BR />I, again, thank the Member for securing the debate today.”
“The issue of transport is also significant in South Down. As previously noted, South Down is a large constituency with significant travel for many pupils. Home-to-school transport is a huge challenge, and I ask the Minister to keep the consideration of regional disparity and the increased need in rural areas high on his agenda, as children are sometimes disadvantaged due to the regional average costings. <BR /> <BR />My final point is hugely important. I emphasise, as Cathy Mason has, the important role of non-teaching staff in the education and care of children with special educational needs. Without them, the children could not access their education or their travel, and there is particular pressure in that area. I ask the Minister to continue his work to find a settlement on the pay and grading review.”
“I urge the Minister to remain committed to that through securing schemes such as Sure Start, which is a great example of bringing a joined-up approach to many small towns and villages across Northern Ireland. I also encourage formal agreement between the Department of Education and the Department of Health for health professionals to conduct assessments in school settings, particularly in preschools, to facilitate early diagnoses and take some pressure off families in accessing long-distance appointments.”
“That places significant pressures on services. Linked to that is a need to ensure that children with special educational needs can access those services effectively. There is a lack of local early intervention services, with many children needing to travel for well over an hour for assessments or diagnoses and their parents being put under extreme pressure to get time off work to attend those appointments. Further significant journeys are regularly needed for ongoing therapeutic care. <BR /> <BR />I have raised with the Minister how important it is to ensure that the Department of Education and the Department of Health walk hand in hand in delivering solutions on early intervention and in responding to the specific additional challenges in accessing them in rural areas such as South Down.”
“I welcome his Department's continued commitment to delivering improved services for special educational needs for all of Northern Ireland and his acknowledgement of the notable numbers of additional special school places and provisions that are required in South Down. <BR /> <BR />Our local special school, Knockevin, is fantastic, and I am absolutely delighted that the Minister visited it and witnessed the amazing community that surrounds it. I am also delighted that he has announced a new school build. That is much needed, as Knockevin's current functionality is under extreme pressure across three separate sites in Dundrum, Castlewellan and Downpatrick. I hope that we see strong progress, at pace, on the new school. <BR /> <BR />The South Down constituency spans a large area and is predominantly rural.”