Diane Forsythe
South Down · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“The Schomberg Society and the staff and pupils of Kilkeel Primary School worked hard alongside the team from Blue Eagle Productions, especially director Rosie McClelland, to deliver a fantastic performance. We saw Northern Ireland's history, heritage and the pupils' great talent shining through.”
“<BR /> <BR />The production was an excellent way to mark that important historic event and for those P7 pupils to bring their time in primary school to a close. It was bittersweet for the year group, as one of their dear classmates was notably missing.”
“As we come to the end of another school term, I pay tribute to some excellent work at Kilkeel Primary School in my constituency, especially by the P7s. I declare an interest, as my son is one of them.”
“Mrs McCabe, the school principal, shared with the children the words of Proverbs chapter 17, verse 17 on how true friends love at all times — through the good times and the hardships of life. I thank Mrs McCabe for her leadership.”
“The Minister will not be surprised by my question on the delay of the accounts certification on SEUPB, as we are in June 2026, 18 months after the end of financial year 2024. Those accounts have still not been certified in both jurisdictions, and a full further financial year has since passed.”
“Minister, you say that you want to avoid unintended consequences for businesses and property owners, but those measures do nothing for existing long-term businesses that are struggling on, already occupy premises and cannot afford to invest in their properties, and there will be consequences for them.”
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“<BR /> <BR />As I say, the DUP has consistently raised the poor way in which the local growth fund has been progressed at every level. We believe that the UK Government need to step up, fund it properly, restore the fund's full aims and remove the capital/revenue split. We support the voluntary and community sector, and we recognise the valuable contribution that it has made for the public in Northern Ireland. That sector has been let down, and we support the call from our Assembly, the parties that stood united, our Executive and our MPs to reinstate the local growth fund in full.”
“Given the tough decisions that will need to be taken by Executive Ministers in the coming weeks and months in the difficult budgetary situation, we, on balance, do not believe that devolving responsibility for the schemes solely to local Ministers would be prudent or conducive to providing greater certainty to the sector; rather, it would add to the challenges facing our Departments. Our amendment removes the suggestion to ring-fence the money, because, as we see it, if you ring-fence everything and set it aside to deliver on previous schemes when the Budget is already under pressure, it will put additional pressures on Ministers and force the question: when we do not have additional funding, where do you take the money from? Which Department do you take money from to ring-fence it for this?”
“We cannot be in a situation where funding coming from the UK Government duplicates aims already covered by Executive programmes or where Northern Ireland's circumstances are not reflected in the development or administration of the funding. Equally, the DUP does not believe that providing a more meaningful role for the devolved Administrations in deciding how and where that funding is targeted must be at the expense of retaining a national approach to providing greater economic and social cohesion between different parts of the United Kingdom. <BR /> <BR />That is where our amendment tries to bring in a degree of assessment of our current position.”
“Over the past years, we in the DUP repeatedly sought clarity on when that funding would be available and how it would be administered, and it is clear, on all of those fronts, that the engagement of the previous Government was severely lacking. We want to see that remedied. <BR /> <BR />The size of the pot is extremely important, but it is also critical that the priorities of future programmes reflect the needs and circumstances of communities in Northern Ireland. The role of the voluntary and community sector has been highlighted and rightly recognised throughout our Programme for Government. We have always been clear that the aims and funding objectives of our local growth fund must align with the Executive's agreed plans for economic growth and social inclusion.”
“<BR /> <BR />Put simply, there is not enough capacity within existing statutory services to replace the loss of the programmes, and that will undoubtedly mean that individuals will be denied access to services, resulting in negative consequences for health, well-being, economic development and skills growth across our Province. We want to see the previous spending power under the EU structural funds be replicated and enhanced. The UK always paid more into the EU than what it received back in structural funding. There therefore can be no excuse for any shortfall in funding now. The DUP does not accept that a shortfall was in some way inevitable as a result of our exit from the EU. Ultimately, previous Governments made promises that have not been honoured.”
“The DUP believes that the UK Government have a responsibility to provide clarity on the future of that funding without delay. It is appalling that organisations in the voluntary and community sector, which do essential work, have been left in such an uncertain position. In particular, the 70:30 capital/revenue split has caused major concern that 11,000 people a year may lose support. Our party has raised that issue at every level, with Gavin Robinson raising it at the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee. Right across the House, we have been speaking with a united voice.”
“From 2023 until 2025, the voluntary and community sector-led UK SPF programmes supported almost 24,000 beneficiaries. Members in every corner of the Chamber will no doubt testify to the impact that such organisations have in their constituencies. It is therefore vital that our voluntary and community sector feel valued for the work that it does. Ensuring stability and sustainability of services and volunteers is critical to ensuring that the support infrastructure is there for the people who need it. The unprecedented challenges facing our departmental budgets have the potential to create a much bigger problem and greater uncertainty for projects and groups in the sector, given organisations' reliance on core funding.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I thank the SDLP for tabling the motion on funding for the voluntary and community sector. As chair of the all-party group (APG) on the voluntary and community sector, I have long called for an assessment and quantification of the extent of the public services that the voluntary and community sector delivers in Northern Ireland. We all know that its organisations are at the heart of our communities, delivering front-line services across all Departments. The extent of their delivery has never been quantified, and the scale of it has never been fully built into our Programme for Government (PFG) assessments. <BR /> <BR />The voluntary and community sector in Northern Ireland continues to deliver front-line services to our public and to fill the gap that public services do not reach.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does he not accept my point that his contributions about how the amendments will be great at critiquing the Executive and how the amendments that did not get on to the Marshalled List would have supported the position of the Opposition could seem, to others, to be political and to support the position of the Opposition over that of the Executive?”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. I completely agree, but it is important to make the point that, as multiple new bodies and quangos are being set up, we must, at the outset, keep a close eye on them and not write blank cheques that allow them to grow unchecked. <BR /> <BR />To us, the role that the Northern Ireland Fiscal Council plays is important, and we welcome the Bill, which will underpin the Fiscal Council's work on a statutory basis. We believe that maintaining the independence of that body is paramount and essential.”
“The Bill also mentions that there may be additional funding requirements. We believe that it is important that the Assembly is consulted when it comes to any additional funding that is needed, because, as we set up this body in legislation, we should not write a blank cheque for it or any other public body that would allow them to grow without submitting formal proposals or business cases. We must always work together to ensure that we achieve the best value for money for Northern Ireland taxpayers. <BR /> <BR />We have spoken at length in the Chamber —.”
“To us, the critical value of the Fiscal Council is its independence. The financial reviews, opinions, presentations or bids that come from within Government are often shaped by a particular perspective. In our consideration, we reviewed and had concerns about the Department of Finance's role and how that sat in the legislation. It is important that the view of the Minister or whoever sits in the Department cannot persuade the actions of the Fiscal Council. Throughout our scrutiny, we considered the operation of that at length and received assurances that the independence of the Fiscal Council will be maintained.”
“On that, it is worth pointing out that, currently, the Fiscal Council is quite modestly staffed, with limited resources, so prescribing things in legislation would mean that some things would be prioritised over others.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. I completely agree with the point that he made about the quantification of public-sector workers, but I do not necessarily think that addressing the impact of duplication in the delivery of public services, as set out in the amendment, is the answer. I believe that there is a piece of work there. It is really important, and there are wider issues around that, but my concern about adding the line into the legislation is that it is not clearly enough defined. For example, if that one piece of work were done, what other pieces of work would come under that, and how would they be resourced by the Fiscal Council? Therefore, I do not believe that it is concise enough, but I totally agree with him about the piece of work that he is suggesting needs to happen.”
“For example, in the health service, we have multiple arm's-length bodies, with duplication of many back-office functions, including form-filling, administration and transfer of data. That needs to be interrogated by management, internal audit, external audit and reformed. Those are operational and meaningful tasks.”
“However, that seems more like a potential report for a body like the Northern Ireland Audit Office or an exercise that, if it had added value, should be undertaken by each Department or arm's-length body to interrogate their data and pull out evidence on which services are genuinely being duplicated, rather than having a high-level helicopter view, as has been the case with some previous reports that are in the public domain. <BR /> <BR />There is a genuine need for work to identify inefficiencies in how we deliver our public services, and it goes alongside the need for transformation of our public services. It cannot and should not be a generic piece. It needs to be reviewed properly and operationally.”
“That report highlights the need to enhance skill sets and roles around how reform and the work of economists may be delivered, but we do not believe that that is the role of the Northern Ireland Fiscal Council, and we do not support its being added to the legislation. <BR /> <BR />Amendment Nos 4 and 5 bring in a somewhat political interpretation of what may be considered by some to be the cost of duplication. It is unclear how the proposers of those amendments intend to define that. If the Fiscal Council was so minded to undertake that work, it could do so under its current discretionary powers.”
“<BR /> <BR />Regarding amendment Nos 2 and 3, we see the role of the Fiscal Council as being to report on public finances in order to feed economists in their work of making assessments. It is not the role of the Fiscal Council to act as an economist. There are economists in place across the Northern Ireland Civil Service whose job is to assess the output of bodies such as the Fiscal Council, and the wider impacts on each Department. In the Department for the Economy, the economists' role is also to assess the impact of public financial activities on the Northern Ireland economy. We recognise the need for and the importance of that role, and we acknowledge that it may be somewhat lacking. That brings back into question the Northern Ireland Audit Office report into some of the capacity and capability in the Northern Ireland Civil Service.”
“That comment is quite politically motivated, and it led to comments on his other amendments that did not make it through, including one that proposed that the Fiscal Council would make costings from Opposition proposals. That would err on the side of doing the Opposition's job for it and put the Fiscal Council into the middle of the political operation of how the Opposition and the Executive work. <BR /> <BR />Passing amendment No 1 would introduce a requirement for how the alignment would be measured as well as assessed reports. The detail on how that would operate is unclear. We feel that the current application of the Fiscal Council's professional discretion, as necessary, is appropriate to inform public debate without injecting a new statutory duty.”
“The leader of the Opposition said in this debate that that would give the Fiscal Council:”
“The amendments call on the Fiscal Council to do more than report on the public finances; they call on the council to give opinions, to perform as policy analysts and, potentially, economists. That is not its current role, and it could change the dynamic of how it operates. <BR /> <BR />In amendment No 1, there is a call for a consideration as to the extent to which the proposed Budget aligns with the most recently agreed Programme for Government. Under its professional discretion, the Northern Ireland Fiscal Council is free to make any comment on that as it sees fit. It has done in the past, and I have every confidence that it will in the future. That is a varying opinion and part of the public debate, as Executive Ministers and those critiquing them have different views.”
“For me, that last point is critical: it is independent assessment of Northern Ireland finances to inform policy decisions, to inform public debate, not to be a part of those. It is not for the Fiscal Council to perform as economists, pass political opinion or to be prescribed in legislation to undertake work with any potentially politically defined objectives. The Fiscal Council's independence and professional discretion is essential to protect all the things that are proposed in the amendments. <BR /> <BR />All of the amendments raise sensible conversations that we all want to be a part of and debates that we all should be engaged in. However, we do not believe that they are best placed in the legislation, prescribing things as "essential duties" of the Fiscal Council.”
“It is important to point to the mission of the Fiscal Council, which is:”
“<BR /> <BR />There is nothing more important to our taxpayers than to see transparency and accountability when it comes to public money. To date, our Fiscal Council has demonstrated the positive impact that it has had in improving transparency, scrutiny and understanding of our public finances. Its wide range of reports far exceeds what it is required to do, including, quite recently, its assessment of Northern Ireland Water's funding model, and shows the council's ability to scrutinise across many departmental remits and address some uncomfortable truths that hamper our ability to deliver, as well as issues coming from our public finances. <BR /> <BR />As others have outlined, the clauses set out what the council would do, the required reports and some of the details of those.”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak on another piece of substantive legislation from the Department of Finance, and thank the departmental officials, Finance Committee staff and all who gave evidence in Committee as we worked hard on the Bill. We welcome the Bill, which underpins the Fiscal Council's work with a statutory basis, following its operation since 2021, and the way in which it clearly emphasises its independence in governance as key. The statutory foundation of the Northern Ireland Fiscal Council will further bolster its ability to carry out independent scrutiny of our financial situation at a time of economic uncertainty and unprecedented pressures facing our public service delivery, and establishing, through this legislation, a legally binding oversight body should help our efforts.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. We are under incredible financial pressure, and Departments are being required to prioritise some things over others. Some Departments are spending a lot more than others on their journey to achieve climate policies. Is there or should there be a requirement to isolate that spending and compare it as part of a cost-benefit analysis to ensure that what is being spent does not go towards chasing unattainable targets but actually benefits public services in Northern Ireland?”
“People have been asked to avoid the area, and I ask that that request continue to be respected whilst the firefighting continues. <BR /> <BR />It has been reported that this incident was not a result of recreational activity and that the fires were started in areas that are hard for the public to access. Rural arson is a crime, and, if anyone has any information on these deliberately lit fires, which are malicious attacks on our countryside, they should come forward and contact the police. I urge them to call 999 immediately at the sign of any fire and, if they have any information, to please come forward.”
“<BR /> <BR />Over the weekend past, our Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service, the Mourne Mountain Rescue Team and the local PSNI have been excellent, supported by Sky Watch NI. Their outstanding coordination and bravery in face of the most treacherous conditions kept us all safe. I think of their families, who will have been so concerned when looking up at the giant flames engulfing the mountainside and thinking of their loved ones up there facing off those fires. I sincerely thank everyone who attended, many of whom are still working to contain those fires, which are still burning. Huge amounts of smoke were still coming out of the mountains as I drove here today. <BR /> <BR />The local community has also been incredible and has rallied to support, with many local businesses providing food and water to those working in the mountains.”
“The fires were huge, fast-moving and came right down — I am sure that everyone saw the images — to the back of people's homes on the coast road from Kilkeel to Newcastle, with many people evacuated. Panic spread as everyone hurried to locate their loved ones, who may have been out camping or walking, as is normal on pleasant evenings. That should not be what local people in the Mourne area are subjected to every time there is good weather. <BR /> <BR />Those who are starting the fires maliciously need to feel the full force of the law. Too often, we see these fires and the reports of intentional crimes but with no consequences. Last year, there was an arrest at the fires towards the Hilltown area, and I believe that the case will be heard in the weeks ahead. We need to see justice served, and we need to set an example for people to see.”
“On Saturday evening, it was devastating to see the scenes of widespread fires emerging from the Mourne Mountains once again. It really was soul-destroying to sit there in the heart of our local community with our children looking up at the mountains as the huge flames got closer to our homes. It is terrifying and reckless, and it endangers lives and destroys our nature and habitats. <BR /> <BR />When we see the glorious weather coming along, it is great to get out and enjoy the countryside and welcome visitors to the Mourne area, which boosts tourism. Saturday was a beautiful and very busy day, but then the fires started across three sites in a very confined area from Slievenaman Road to Bloody Bridge.”
“Minister, last week, we saw an unprecedented intervention from the business community in Northern Ireland on your employment rights Bill. In light of that, when did you last meet the business community to discuss its objections to the Bill?”
“I worked with my party colleagues who lead in each Committee area to understand what each clause means. We will support the clauses as they progress, and we will support the amendments. <BR /> <BR />Finance is not often a Department that most people would pick to work in by choice, but some of us did it as a career at one point. In many ways, that is what always happens: the Department of Finance is the catch-all. It comes along, tidies up the admin and signs off the piece to give you the power to spend the money, but it is important that all the i's are dotted and the t's are crossed. This legislation is really important, and we support it today.”
“When the Audit Committee got the legislation, clause 20 looked like a good process piece on paper, but when we got into the detail of it, it was very clear that a Standing Committee that meets once a month does not have the capacity to take on the full operational tasks, such as those in the Bill. The Audit Committee recommended that that not be accepted, and the Finance Committee agreed with it on that piece. I am pleased that the Minister has also agreed with that. Again, we support the Minister's opposition to the question that clause 20 stand part of the Bill. <BR /> <BR />As I said, the Bill is wide-ranging and comprehensive. We have looked at each clause in detail at the Committee and through cross-cutting work with other Committees.”
“We were grateful that Infrastructure officials came to talk to us about it at the Finance Committee and agreed the amendment with the Infrastructure Minister and the Finance Minister. We support the amendment and the fact that, when changes are being considered, they will be fully costed, explained and brought to the Floor to see what exactly they mean. That will give Assembly Members an open and transparent place to speak about them to the public. <BR /> <BR />Finally, I turn to clause 20. I am also a member of the Audit Committee, so I scrutinised that clause from both sides. It was not a conflict of interest; at times, it helped to have it explained in both places.”
“On first reading the Bill, I thought that it was a move to bring in charging and remove the travel passes completely. I appreciated the opportunity to scrutinise the intent of that clause. As a party, we were very pleased when the travel passes were introduced, and we think that they are really important for people in Northern Ireland, especially older people. We were concerned, but when we saw the evidence, it was quite clear that the power was about changing the administrative process, that no decisions had been made and that it was a consideration for the future. <BR /> <BR />We brought forward a proposal because we did not like the fact that it was subject to negative resolution. We felt that, to be fully transparent, any regulation needed to come to the House to be explained and costed.”
“Immigration policy remains with Westminster. <BR /> <BR />I turn to the amendments. As the Minister said, the amendment concerning the training of teachers came through from the Minister of Education on the back of his scheme to bring forward a way to provide the bursaries that he had previously announced. The Education Committee looked at it, and we were pleased to see that it can be activated through the Bill in this mandate, as it would have been difficult to activate that policy intention had it not been able to come through in this way. We are happy to support that amendment. <BR /> <BR />I turn to the two amendments to clause 17, which relates to travel passes. When the Bill was introduced, I was quite concerned about that clause.”
“<BR /> <BR />The leader of the Opposition referred to some amendments that were not selected, but I feel that the creation of five new corporate bodies was quite beyond the scope of the Bill, which is trying to help Departments operate administrative processes and move with their finances. <BR /> <BR />The clauses are wide-ranging, so it was great to get into the detail of them. They have been outlined at length. They cover powers for the Department of Finance and the Department for the Economy and marine licensing through DAERA. I, like the previous contributor, am really pleased to welcome the power to do with the spend on ending violence against women and girls. It is important to note that moving the immigration spend from the black box across to TEO does not bring any extra powers; it just moves the regularisation of the spend.”
“As has been said, with 20 substantive clauses that deal with a whole range of issues, interpretation and commencement, and involve some seven different Departments, the Bill is wide-ranging. I am grateful to the Department of Finance officials, other Committees and other officials who came to us at the Finance Committee to work through it. One of the main aims of the Bill is to remove items from the black box, so it is good to see that progress. <BR /> <BR />As has been outlined, financial provisions Bills have been brought at semi-regular intervals in the past. There have been so many issues. We have got financial provisions and administrative provisions. You can see how they could have been kept separate, but grouping them has allowed for a lot of things to happen.”
“As Members have outlined, the Bill is somewhat unusual, and, following a range of somewhat smaller and routine legislation, it is the first quite substantial piece of legislation that has come before the Finance Committee in the time that I have sat on it. Maybe it is because my predecessor, Paul Frew, was on the Committee before, but I really enjoyed working through the detail of the legislation, so his legacy in the Committee lives on.”
“I thank the Minister for his comments. I am pleased to speak on the Bill.”
“Minister, the increasing cost of rents has a huge impact on family finances. I welcome the Minister's work on addressing that so far. What more can be done to ensure that we have more housing in Northern Ireland?”
“Is there something in the response plan that will feed that information back down, so that, when members of the public see a fire, someone can explain it, get connected to water and deal with the incident earlier?”
“I thank the Minister for his update. Hardly a year goes past without a serious wildfire incident in the Mournes, and those are devastating. I want to ask the Minister about the response plan that he mentioned. Quite often, when wildfires start, we see them in the distance, and they do not appear to be that big, but the rate at which they progress is fast and difficult to contain. The Minister talked about the response plan and other emergency services. When I have seen fires as I have been driving along, I have called 999, but the response from the call handler and the police is to ask where the incident is, what road it is on, where they will connect to water and how the fire engine will get to the location. However, members of the public do not know that.”
“Scrutiny of the Bill is extremely important, as is the scrutiny of all Bills. A wide range of stakeholders, including Church groups, humanist bodies, the Children's Commissioner, the Human Rights Commission and the Equality Commission, has expressed interest. It will be important to hear from all of them in setting definitions that are firmly scrutinised as the Bill progresses. As has been said, the Bill has two main objectives, but it also has the potential to strengthen marriage law here in Northern Ireland. We support the opportunity to bring it forward, scrutinise it further and make the best legislation possible.”
“This Wednesday, which is when departmental officials are scheduled to attend the Finance Committee, we will commence the briefing on the contents of the Bill.”
“I am keen to see amendments that would, if made, strengthen the message of what marriage and civil partnerships mean and legislate for a requirement for a dignified and solemn ceremony to be defined and carried out. I welcome the Minister's comments in his opening remarks about the fact that it gives us an opportunity to bring forward an amendment to remove the ability to profiteer from the solemn aspects of the ceremony. Inclusion of the option to bring forward a requirement for those officiating to complete a qualification is welcome, as there is a clear need to define and remind people of the serious and solemn nature of the ceremony and all that it means. I look forward to exploring that further during the Committee's scrutiny.”
“<BR /> <BR />In the Department's consultation, approximately 70% of online and written respondents were supportive of amending marriage law to put belief marriage on an equal footing with religious marriage. None of the three Churches that responded submitted an objection. The legislation is described as formalising in law practices that are already happening on a temporary basis, and I look forward to scrutinising the detail of that further at Committee. <BR /> <BR />I speak on an ongoing basis to the Christian Institute about the legislation and will continue to engage with it, the Churches and all those interested in the Bill. As the Bill, which will formalise and future-proof marriage law, moves forward, I am keen to explore options to strengthen aspects of it, too.”
“Now that we have the Bill, it will be good for the Committee to hear more evidence on that. We have the opportunity to consider any sanctions or tariffs as part of the enforcement of the minimum age for marriage in a future Act and to consider the Great Britain legislation on forced marriage that deals with the minimum age for marriage. <BR /> <BR />On the move to make the current temporary arrangements permanent by including non-religious belief marriages within the legal framework of the Order, it is important that we review the details of the legal case that led to the arrangements that are being formalised through the Bill. The definition of an "organised group of people" needs to be scrutinised, and we need clarity on that.”
“<BR /> <BR />Raising the minimum age for marriage and civil partnership in Northern Ireland from 16 to 18 reflects the evidence that child marriage can be harmful and recognises the strong public support for reform. The Bill removes the possibility of under-18s being able to marry or enter a civil partnership, even with parental consent, and introduces a new criminal offence relating to actions that cause a person under 18 to enter into a marriage here in Northern Ireland. Given the worldwide campaign against child marriage that is known to all in the Assembly, it is very important to see that progress. Ninety-seven per cent of online respondents to the consultation on the legislation were supportive of the change that will increase the minimum age to 18.”
“I thank the Minister for giving the Committee advance sight of the Bill. I also thank his officials for their continual updates on the Bill's progress and for being available to the Committee. <BR /> <BR />This is serious and important legislation, and it should be approached with that in mind. As we work through it, I hope that a solemn and dignified tone remains throughout. As has been said, the Bill has two main purposes: first, through clauses 5 to 7, it raises the minimum age for marriage and civil partnership in Northern Ireland from 16 to 18; and, secondly, it seeks to formally include non-religious belief marriages within the legal framework of the Marriage (Northern Ireland) Order 2003.”