Natalie Don-Innes
Scottish National Party · Scotland
“Marie McNair: I am proud of the policies that the Scottish National Party Government has introduced, which make childcare more accessible. We know that wraparound childcare is essential to ensuring that parents can find and retain employment, and that the impact of that policy is keeping children out of poverty.”
“Families in Clydebank and Milngavie, like those throughout Scotland, benefit from our investment of £1 billion annually in the provision of 1,140 hours of high- quality early learning and childcare.”
“I have welcomed the opportunity to visit a wide range of settings during my time in office, seeing our support and funding in action and witnessing the passion, dedication and skill of our childcare professionals, who seek every day to get it right for every child.”
“That work will be developed with adoptive families and delivery partners to ensure that it reflects lived experience and supports a consistent national approach.”
“Although we have invested heavily in CAMHS, there might be more to do to ensure that children and young people get the support that they need. I have acknowledged the challenges that adoptive families face, the need to strengthen support and the dedication of the practitioners who support those families.”
“I will respond to a number of points that were raised in today’s debate, but, given that this is my final speech, I will take a minute to thank the people of the constituency that I represent— Renfrewshire North and West.”
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“The curriculum for excellence includes health and wellbeing as one of three core areas that are the responsibility of all schools. Schools develop the curriculum to suit their local context and meet the needs of their pupils, which includes delivering learning on bereavement. Education Scotland has developed teaching resources to raise awareness of childhood bereavement and the impact of adversity and trauma while helping to mitigate the effect of those experiences. Young Scot has also developed advice and resources for children who are dealing with bereavement. That work aligns with recommendations to improve support for children who are experiencing bereavement. Jeremy Balfour: Whether of a beloved relative or a pet guinea pig, all of us will face bereavement at some point.”
“Of course, the Scottish Government has a duty to safeguard vulnerable children, yet the case reeks of institutional failures. Those children were on the child protection register, yet they were failed. Those children were known to agencies with a duty of care to protect them, yet they were failed. Those children were chronically absent from school, yet they were failed. Those children showed blatant signs of neglect, yet they were failed. The Scottish Government has presided over that catastrophic failure at every single level. Minister, are the children of Scotland safe?”
“Keeping children safe is our utmost priority. The news from yesterday’s trial is horrific, and my thoughts are with the children who have suffered such abhorrent abuse. No sentence can take away their suffering. However, the perpetrators have only been brought to justice because of the bravery of their victims in coming forward. Understandably, all of us are shocked when we hear about such terrible crimes, and I welcome the news that an independently led case learning review is under way, in line with national guidance, to ensure that child protection in Scotland is as robust as it can be and that all learning is acted on. Ash Regan: As a mother, my heart broke when I heard about the tragic circumstances of the abuse that was suffered by those children.”
“I hope that today’s debate provides an opportunity to explore what more can be done collectively. I move, as an amendment to motion S6M- 16170, to leave out from first “calls on ministers” to end and insert: “recognises the importance of the Scottish Government and local authorities working together to facilitate an environment in which all young people are safe to learn, develop and grow; notes the Scottish Government national guidance on mobile phones in schools, which empowers headteachers to take decisions on banning mobile phone use in schools; agrees with the importance of ensuring that children are protected from online harms; notes the importance of ensuring that children and young people are able to share their perspective on their education, and calls on all partners to continue working closely with the Scottish Government to improve behaviour and relationships in schools.” 15:04”
“That is why I am pleased to inform the Parliament that the First Minister has asked me to work with the Minister for Victims and Community Safety to create a new task force to identify what more can be done within the limits of devolution to protect children and young people from online harms— [Interruption.] The reaction from members on the Conservative benches is appalling. [Interruption.] The Deputy Presiding Officer: Let us hear the minister. Natalie Don-Innes: The First Minister has also written to the UK Government to voice his support for joint working between our Governments to improve online safety. I sincerely hope that members from across the chamber support that endeavour. It will take all of us—Government, Parliament, local authorities, agencies, schools, teachers and organisations—working together.”
“That is how we minimise the number of future victims and how we turn around young lives. Across the chamber, we are committed to ensuring that our children and young people are nurtured and free to grow up safe. They should be protected from harms and harassment in their day- to-day lives, which includes online. When browsing the internet, children can be exposed to cyberbullying, violent content, sexualised material and hate speech, including messages that incite violence or encourage toxic masculinity. Exposure to such content is putting our children at risk.”
“I was struck by comments from Jimmy Paul, the head of the Scottish Violence Reduction Unit, who said: “There was a real commitment to reducing violence in Scotland and the issue was not politicised. It was a step in the right direction to tackling violence in Scotland—it is the start of the conversation and it will look at the root causes and drivers of violence, not just the act itself. Everybody in the room from experts, young people and politicians, were on the same page”. It is in that spirit that we should go forward together as a Parliament. We owe it to our young people not to use incidents of youth violence as political footballs. Scotland’s approach to confronting and correcting youth offending is effective and proven. Scotland needs to stay alert to emerging issues and respond on the basis of evidence.”
“Natalie Don-Innes: Furthermore, my work on the Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Act 2024 means that I take very seriously Miles Briggs’s reference in the motion to supporting “children and young people impacted by violence”. I was happy to work with members from across the chamber to strengthen the provisions in the 2024 act. Childcare improvements remain a shared priority across Government. Last week, the First Minister’s cross-party youth justice summit involved the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills, the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs, the Minister for Victims and Community Safety, members from across the chamber, youth justice organisations and young people who have been impacted by violence.”
“Respondents to the Scottish Government’s behaviour in Scottish schools research in November 2023 cited societal factors, such as poverty and deprivation, and challenges associated with home and family life, such as trauma and adverse childhood experiences, as the root causes of disruptive behaviour. We must strike a balance between in-school approaches to promoting positive behaviour alongside the external factors that might influence behaviour. That is why I am committed to whole- family wellbeing and to prioritising services that help families to thrive, stay together and avoid crisis points, which might later impact on a child or young person’s school experience. Liam Kerr: Will Natalie Don-Innes take an intervention? Natalie Don-Innes: Can I get the time back, Deputy Presiding Officer? The Deputy Presiding Officer: No, not really.”
“I have spoken to members about inconsistencies in rates and other matters, and I continue to work on those. I recognise that ELC providers in Scotland face pressure in relation to the £5 million burden arising from the UK Government’s increase in the employer national insurance contribution. In relation to flexibility of provision, we know that there are differing models of ELC delivery in local authorities. That is why we will continue to work with local government and sector partners to ensure that the 1,140 offer meets families’ needs. Turning to the measures in Miles Briggs’s motion that relate to factors influencing behaviour and engagement, I must challenge his characterisation of schools and our children. Often, we need to look a bit deeper to understand why a child or young person might act in a certain way.”
“Families across Scotland have been benefiting from that provision since 2021. However, I recognise that there are pressures— Miles Briggs: Will Natalie Don-Innes take an intervention? Natalie Don-Innes: Yes, I will. Miles Briggs: The minister says that she takes umbrage with the word “disparity”. Probably every member in the Parliament will have written to Government ministers to say that people cannot get the nursery choices that they want. Why is there an issue when we highlight the disparity that clearly exists across our country? Natalie Don-Innes: I am going to speak about some of the challenges. In one of the most recent surveys that was undertaken on ELC, 97 per cent of parents were satisfied with the quality of ELC that they were receiving. However, I recognise that there are challenges.”
“I am grateful to the Scottish Conservatives for securing the debate. I am keen to speak to the measures included in their motion in relation to my ministerial responsibilities. In closing the debate, the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills will focus on specific actions for schools. The motion references early learning and childcare provision and refers to “disparity” in provision. I would respectfully challenge that point. The Scottish Government continues to invest around £1 billion a year into delivering 1,140 hours of funded ELC to all eligible children. Scotland is the only part of the United Kingdom to already offer 1,140 hours a year of funded ELC to all three and four-year-olds and eligible two-year-olds, regardless of their parents’ working status.”
“I understand that Orkney Islands Council is taking part in the retention strand of the Scottish Childminding Association’s programme for Scotland’s childminding future, which seeks to support childminders through funded time off the floor. As childminding is a critical part of the challenges that Mr McArthur has outlined to me, I encourage him to engage with Orkney Islands Council on how access to the programme could be of benefit. My offer to meet Mr McArthur, which I made last summer in response to his previous question, still stands. Additional Support Needs (Dumfries and Galloway) 3.”
“We are working to increase uptake of provision for two-year-olds across local authority areas, but I recognise the particular and distinct challenges there. I welcomed a recent opportunity to meet representatives of Highlands and Islands Enterprise to discuss such issues. I asked them to report to me in the spring, to support and consolidate our knowledge in that area. I will carefully consider the findings of the report when it is available. As I said in my first answer, we are also working with island communities, local authorities and other partners to ensure that the new islands plan continues to deliver.”
“Liam McArthur: The minister acknowledged the specific challenges that island and rural areas face on childcare provision when I raised the issue with her during questions on education last summer. Sadly, there has not been much improvement in the situation. I have been contacted by a constituent who explained that, despite the availability of spaces at her local nursery, there was not the staffing capacity to allow her two-year-old child to be given a place. What more can the minister do to assist local authorities such as Orkney Islands Council to recruit and retain the staff required to deliver the childcare that the Government is promising, which is desperately needed by parents in my constituency? Natalie Don-Innes: I am sorry to hear about those challenges.”
“High-quality, accessible and affordable early learning and childcare is vital in island communities to support children’s outcomes and to enable parents or carers to train, work or study. We fully fund local authorities to deliver 1,140 hours of ELC to eligible children, backed by almost £1 billion of funding each year, with each council being responsible for ensuring that local provision meets families’ needs. In addition, at national level, the Scottish Government is currently supporting projects to improve childcare provision in island communities through the national islands plan, our early adopter communities and the programme for Scotland’s childminding future.”
“I hope that today’s statement has provided reassurance to members that secure care capacity and delivery are of the utmost importance to the Scottish Government. We continually monitor capacity and have structures in place to ensure that demand is met. However, I hope that it is clear from what I have said that we are committed to making the system more adaptable and robust in the year ahead. Given that this is a complex and shifting issue, I am aware that members will have further questions or will want to seek clarifications, and I am happy to answer their questions now. The Deputy Presiding Officer: The minister will now take questions on the issues that were raised in her statement. I intend to allow about 20 minutes for that, after which we will need to move on to the next item of business.”
“To do that, we are engaging with a range of stakeholders, including by holding a round-table discussion with the chairs and heads of all four secure care centres, which took place in late November. Meanwhile, focused fortnightly post- commencement meetings are held with care and justice partners, and regular contingency action meetings continue with COSLA, Social Work Scotland and the Care Inspectorate. We will continue our work to keep the Promise and ensure that our care and justice services for children are informed by the views, rights and needs of our children. I look forward to setting out a vision for the proposed Promise bill in the weeks ahead and to working with colleagues across the chamber to ensure that we uphold the promise that each of us made five years ago.”
“That intervention has been effective in driving down reliance on cross- border placements, the number of which is down to 10 from 19 last January. In addition, last summer, £500,000 of funding was offered to secure providers to support their preparations for the movement of children from young offenders institutions to secure care. In the medium to long term, we are committed to developing a more resilient and responsive system of secure care provision, capacity preservation and placement management. We commissioned the University of Strathclyde’s Children and Young People’s Centre for Justice to consider the future needs of children in or on the edges of secure care, which resulted in the publication of the “Reimagining Secure Care” report on 27 September. Our aim is to provide a more detailed response to the report in late spring.”
“Contingency actions, which are focusing on high- intensity wraparound services, include identifying and enabling effective alternatives to secure care, such as health interventions that focus on diverting individuals with certain mental health needs into appropriate settings. The Scottish Government is making available funding of up to £7 million to cover the placements of sentenced and remanded children in this financial year, and the Government has committed to maintaining that funding in 2025-26. That is, of course, subject to parliamentary approval this year. The Government also continues to pay for up to 16 beds across the secure estate. That is to maintain capacity for children who are placed by the courts and to provide a level of financial security to secure providers.”
“We are exploring the potential urgent establishment of a new national contingency resource and consideration is being given to opportunities to repurpose some elements of the existing secure accommodation estate on at least one site, which would provide additional capacity in the system. We will update Parliament on that as soon as possible. We are in the process of finalising a memorandum of understanding with centres and other partners. That will set out a clear codification of responsibilities, as well as a robust protocol for managing issues relating to the most complex secure care placements. As members know, secure care should only ever be used when it is absolutely necessary.”
“On short-term actions, one of the immediate actions has been for the Care Inspectorate to update the secure care admission guidance to provide greater flexibility in respect of the protocol for use of the four emergency bedrooms. That allows secure care providers the flexibility to make decisions on the use of an emergency bedroom to provide relief in emergency situations when its use is required for a live situation or to allow a child to be safely cared for temporarily until a place becomes available. We are working closely with secure care providers and other stakeholders to establish a clear agreement on the minimum vacant secure care capacity requirements for Scotland overall at any given time.”
“It is my hope that St Mary’s will continue to make the required improvements, as set out by the Care Inspectorate, as soon as possible. Of course, secure capacity is not just about numbers of vacant beds; it is also about quality. We must ensure that children and young people receive the highest quality of care in environments where their welfare is prioritised. A secure capacity contingency plan has recently been developed in collaboration with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, Social Work Scotland and the Care Inspectorate. The plan is designed not only to manage the current challenges but to strengthen our secure accommodation system for the future.”
“I was deeply concerned about that development, and the Government has been kept updated regularly on the progress of the Care Inspectorate’s review. It is right that admissions were paused while work was undertaken to make the required improvements. That pause has displaced demand to the other three centres and reduced the overall availability of beds across Scotland over recent months. Following the Care Inspectorate’s visit to the centre on 18 December, it was satisfied that progress had been made and it agreed to lift the pause on new admissions. Some areas still require further work, so the Care Inspectorate has agreed that the maximum capacity should be capped at 12. That pre-Christmas progress is welcome, and it has increased the capacity in the secure estate by four beds.”
“I reassure Parliament and the public that the Scottish Government is already addressing capacity. In recent years, we have seen a steady overall decline in the number of secure care placements that are required in Scotland, from an average of 74 in 2021-22 to 59 in 2022-23. That reduction in demand has opened up the opportunity and capacity for reforms. However, in recent months, the position has been affected by the small increase in remand and sentenced children being placed in secure accommodation rather than in young offenders institutions. In 2022-23, on average, there were nine under-18s in Young Offenders Institution Polmont. St Mary’s Kenmure in Bishopbriggs was served an improvement notice by the Care Inspectorate following its inspection in October, which triggered a pause on new admissions.”
“Implementing the reforms at pace has involved an enormous collaborative effort, and it is with thanks to our secure care providers and our wider partners that I can proudly say that Scotland is a country that does not imprison children. However, the profile of and focus on this landmark legislation has brought into sharp focus some long-standing challenges around the provision of and access to secure care, and those issues need to be addressed to enable sustainability and resilience, particularly as demand fluctuates in these early post- commencement stages. I will set out the actions that the Government is taking, but first I will provide some context. Today’s tight occupancy position is not unprecedented. There has always been pressure on secure care capacity due to the need for high occupancy levels to maintain viability.”
“Secure accommodation is a demand-led service that is provided by four independent charitable organisations in Scotland. It is highly regulated and is subject to regular inspections by both the Care Inspectorate and His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Education. As I said at the outset of my statement, the Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Act 2024 saw Scotland take a major step forward to keep the Promise. Prior to those reforms, children who were in conflict with the law could be placed in young offenders institutions. Careful planning, additional resourcing and intensive preparations meant that we could introduce the reforms less than three months after the bill received royal assent.”
“Capacity can therefore shift daily. Although that provides only a small margin— smaller than we would wish—it is vital that members recognise that redundant overprovision would run contrary to keeping the Promise and would be intolerably expensive. There are, therefore, challenges within and around secure care, and I am here today to be transparent to Parliament and assure members that the Government is fully committed to taking action to address them. In this statement, I will describe how we are doing so. Secure accommodation is not just about providing a safe place to stay. Providers work to understand and address the root causes of each young person’s behaviour and needs and they provide each child with the specialist and tailored care and support that they need to promote positive outcomes.”
“Secure accommodation services are the most intensive, restrictive and specialised form of childcare in Scotland. They are highly regulated and high-cost services. Secure accommodation is designed to meet the needs of a small number of children who need to be deprived of their liberty to keep them or others safe. It is therefore imperative that we have sufficient secure provision to meet Scotland’s needs. The number of vacant places in secure accommodation fluctuates and is monitored closely. This morning, there were three places available in secure accommodation in Scotland. That is not unprecedented, because the needs of children in secure care can be complex, often requiring multiple interventions such as the use of multiple secure accommodation beds when a child’s needs are too complex to be managed within a single space.”
“I am grateful for the opportunity to address the important issue of Scotland’s secure accommodation capacity. As Minister for Children, Young People and The Promise, I recognise and value the critically important role that secure care services play in safeguarding our most vulnerable children. Members will be aware that, in passing the Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill in April, Parliament voted to enshrine in law age- appropriate care and justice for vulnerable young people across the country. As part of wider work to further advance our commitment to children’s rights and embed the Promise, the bill—which became an act on 4 June 2024—importantly ensures that children are kept out of prison and young offenders institutions, with secure accommodation being the normal place of detention instead.”
“I am clear that the inquiry is independent, and it is the responsibility of Lady Smith, its chair, to decide exactly what the inquiry examines in order to fulfil its full terms of reference. The Scottish Government will carefully consider any recommendations made by the inquiry to improve the protection of children in Scotland. However, as I have set out, evidence from inquiry hearings and the inquiry’s findings are already being considered as part of on-going improvement work. The Scottish Government is making a number of moves, across Government, to better support children and young people who may be at risk of abuse. The Presiding Officer: Concise questions and responses would be appreciated.”
“Will the minister confirm whether she is aware of any on-going police investigations into grooming gangs in Scotland? If there is to be a national inquiry into grooming gangs, will the Scottish Government do its bit to help to facilitate the inquiry’s work? Natalie Don-Innes: As I said, this is an extremely serious matter. As, I am sure, Pam Gosal is aware, I am not able to comment on on- going police issues or activity. As I have already stated, the Scottish child abuse inquiry is on-going, and its terms of reference were established following extensive public consultation with survivors of in-care child abuse. The terms of reference task the inquiry with investigating the nature and extent of the abuse of children in care in Scotland as well as identifying any systemic failures that allowed that abuse to happen.”
“Improvements in training have also been made by the Scottish Children’s Reporter Administration, with child sexual exploitation now being addressed in children’s panel members’ pre-service training. Pam Gosal: Although recent attention has been on grooming gangs in towns down south—I echo Kemi Badenoch’s calls for a national inquiry—it would be wrong to think that we are immune to the problem in Scotland. Major police investigations— operation dash and operation Cotswold—have uncovered grooming gangs operating right here, in Scotland. A third investigation, known as operation cerrar, revealed the existence of yet another grooming gang but, despite that investigation taking place in 2016, it appears to have been covered up for four years before the brave work of journalists revealed its existence to the public back in 2020.”
“We remain committed to the Promise and its transformative support for families in need. We have established a national contextual safeguarding group, supported by child protection committees Scotland, and we continue to embed care and risk management processes to assist local authorities with identification, assessment and management of children who display harmful sexual behaviour. Improving understanding of childhood sexual abuse and exploitation is essential, but any data must be gathered in a manner that minimises the risk of retraumatisation of victims. Data on reported concerns about child abuse or neglect is collected by Police Scotland and reported nationally in a monthly dashboard. That data set is currently being extended in order to provide more in-depth analysis of characteristics and trends in abuse and exploitation.”
“I use this moment to thank all the brave survivors for coming forward. In 2020, Barnardo’s Scotland and the Scottish Children’s Reporter Administration launched the first national study of child sexual exploitation in Scotland. It is now more than four years since that report was published. It included 15 recommendations, many of which were for the Scottish Government. How many of the report’s recommendations has the Scottish Government implemented? Natalie Don-Innes: We have made progress in delivering the outcomes that were sought in the Barnardo’s report, which included recommendations for a number of agencies that are involved in the response to child sexual abuse in Scotland. On the Scottish Government’s part, that includes public-facing campaigns on child sexual abuse and, more recently, on the risk of online sexual exploitation.”
“Given the importance of the issues, we are not waiting for the inquiry to report, and we established a child sexual abuse and exploitation national strategic group in October 2024 with operational partners and other expert stakeholders including the former chair of the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse in England and Wales, Professor Alexis Jay, to review current actions and agree where additional focus is needed to better protect children from abuse and exploitation. Pam Gosal: I thank the minister for her answer. I make it clear that my intention is not to label any ethnic group but to shed light on the issue as a whole—rather than leaving the matter to people such as Elon Musk. The stories that we hear from young girls who were victims of grooming gangs are heartbreaking.”
“Child sexual abuse and exploitation are abhorrent crimes that have devastating impacts on victims. We are taking direct action through the Scottish child abuse inquiry, the terms of reference for which were established following extensive public consultation with survivors of in-care child abuse. The inquiry is considering the current legislative, policy and practice framework to prevent and address child abuse and it will set out where it considers that changes are required.”