Maggie Chapman
Scottish Green Party · Scotland
“Our prison system is not working. Like so many other institutions, including our national health service and our schools, prisons reflect the society that they serve. That society is deeply unfair and profoundly unequal. Schools struggle to help young people to learn and thrive, as too many children arrive in the classroom hungry.”
“Overall levels of crime are about half what they were in 1991. However, we have left prisons, just like our schools and NHS, to pick up the pieces of failures elsewhere in society.”
“Far too often, we take people who have already been failed by society and place them in institutions that fail them again—institutions that are increasingly unable to guarantee basic standards of welfare, dignity and human rights.”
“For those who have committed less serious crimes and are serving shorter sentences, it makes no sense at all to spend, as the motion states, £52,000 per year on prison, given that we know that, in many cases, prison will not help them to stop reoffending.”
“With greater use of effective alternatives to custody, and sentencing that follows the evidence, we will need fewer but better resourced prisons that can genuinely support rehabilitation and reintegration. That approach is working right now in other countries.”
“It is no surprise, then, that prisons often perform worse than alternatives when it comes to reducing reoffending and preventing future harm. Short sentences for non-violent crimes, in particular, for which there are the clearest alternatives, result in some of the highest rates of prisoners leaving prison and coming into conflict with th…”
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“To ask the Scottish Government what action it is taking to support tenants and owner- occupiers affected by RAAC in the North East Scotland region. (S6O-05174) The Cabinet Secretary for Housing (Màiri McAllan): It is a worrying time for those whose homes are affected by RAAC. I met residents in Aberdeen, Dundee, Angus and Clackmannanshire just yesterday to discuss the challenges that they face. We are working with local authorities, who are responsible for finding local solutions. For example, I recently agreed to Aberdeen City Council’s request for flexibility in an existing housing infrastructure fund commitment to allow the council to provide additional support for residents from within its own budget. I have repeatedly pressed the United Kingdom Government for a central dedicated RAAC remediation fund.”
“I expect those types of services to pass on the type of advice and support that Maggie Chapman is looking for, and I will provide further detail on where those services are in writing to Ms Chapman following my statement.”
“The winter period will place extra pressure on unpaid carers as well as paid staff. I note that the “National Planning Priorities and Principles for Surge and Winter Preparedness in Health and Social Care” document states: “support for the wellbeing ... of … carers should be embedded in surge planning”. Will the cabinet secretary provide more detail about what that support should entail and how unpaid carers can find out what extra assistance they might be entitled to? Neil Gray: I thank Maggie Chapman for raising a critical issue. All MSPs know well the critical role that our unpaid carers play. In my area, the Lanarkshire Carers centre provides phenomenal advice and support to local unpaid carers.”
“We can keep granting new licences and prolonging carbon lock-in and the neglect of workers and communities, or we can summon the courage to break with business as usual and invest in a Scotland that is not only low carbon but fair. I speak today for young people, for families in the north-east who fear for their future and for those around the world whose lives are already curtailed by climate chaos. We cannot ask them to wait for justice. We must act with urgency, compassion and ambition. We believe that the richest resources and technologies must not serve the few; they must uplift us all. We must reject Rosebank. The Deputy Presiding Officer: That concludes the debate on Rosebank. Before we move to the next item of business, there will be a brief pause to allow members on the front benches to change.”
“Scotland must stop exporting our skills and importing finished products. Our renewables strategy must be to manufacture, install and maintain right here at home. Fourthly, we must confront intersecting injustices. Climate justice is social justice. Gender, race, class and geography shape who gains and who loses. The poorest in the world are already paying the price for choices that are made elsewhere. Finally, we must use the gains of the fossil era to finance the green one. If profits are vast and subsidies generous, we should reclaim them. We should invest in communities, care, education and innovation. A fossil fuel boom that enriches a few while displacing many is unacceptable. The decision that is before us is stark.”
“not leave communities abandoned” and that we must put “workers’ voices at the heart of any just transition”, yet the reality falls behind that rhetoric. For every one green job created, three oil and gas jobs have been lost. Too many renewables projects import components instead of building them here. Too often, we talk transition but deliver decline. So, what is to be done? First, we must say loud and clear, “No new licences.” Approving Rosebank would send the wrong message. We already hold vast reserves. Even developers admit that it will not cut bills or create lasting jobs. Secondly, we must centre communities and workers by co-designing, retraining, upskilling and reskilling, with guarantees of fair pay, fair work and secure pathways into renewables. Thirdly, we must build local supply chains and anchor investment here.”
“Here in Scotland, we must ask: who does the industry serve and whose future does it ignore? Let us be clear that oil and gas corporations are raking in mega-profits, even as investment in renewables lags and supply-chain jobs erode. Equinor made £62 billion of profit in 2022, while the Rosebank project would be underwritten by the public purse. Meanwhile, north-east communities face job losses and shrinking opportunities. A just transition means that the process is as important as the outcome. The Just Transition Commission reminds us that the shift must be co- designed and co-delivered by those affected—by workers, trade unions and communities. Roz Foyer of the Scottish Trades Union Congress has been clear that “We must secure good, green jobs ...”
“The UK taxpayer would carry most of the cost through billions in tax breaks, while profits flowed overseas and UK job creation remained minimal. The promised boom is hollow. It is built on export-oriented oil and more fossil dependency when the clock for climate action is running out. This debate is not only about Aberdeen or Edinburgh; it is about the wider world and those who are already living with the first and worst effects of climate breakdown. As scientist Friederike Otto reminds us, “Climate change is not just a problem of physics but a crisis of justice”. Women and gender-diverse people, people of colour and those in low-income countries are suffering most from this fossil-fuelled world. The consequences of climate change are not gender neutral.”
“I respect those workers— sometimes whole families—who have gone offshore, drilled, serviced rigs and supported supply chains. However, the reality is clear: jobs are disappearing. Between 2014 and 2024, the UK oil and gas workforce fell from about 190,000 to 115,000. In Scotland, we have lost roughly three oil and gas jobs for every one that is created in clean energy. One offshore worker told the Just Transition Commission: “I’ve got probably four years left in the North Sea. Where do I go? My employer is not funding retraining ... There’s a lack of information about where is the work and what are the skills required.” They went on to say that “A lot of guys ... think the North Sea will go on forever”, but it will not. That is the cost—the human cost— of transition neglect. Rosebank would only make things worse.”
“If we are serious about keeping anywhere close to the 1.5°C limit of global warming and about having a liveable planet, we must be serious about having no new licences for fossil fuel extraction. Liam Kerr: Will the member take an intervention? Maggie Chapman: I am not going to take an intervention from a member of a party that wants to rip up our climate change legislation. The campaign against Rosebank reminds us that this is not abstract. It says that, if Governments are serious about the climate crisis, there can be no new investments in oil, gas and coal. We can debate economics and energy security, but the real question is moral. Who do those businesses serve? In the north-east, many communities have built their identity and pride around oil and gas.”
“Although the debate has been disappointingly predictable, the climate-wrecking, business-as-usual take from most in the chamber—[Interruption.] The Deputy Presiding Officer: Ms Chapman, will you resume your seat? Alexander Stewart, I ask you not to chunter from a sedentary position, particularly with comments such as that, please. Maggie Chapman: The climate-wrecking, business-as-usual take from most in the chamber—one that ideologically supports fossil capitalism—is deeply concerning. In closing the debate, I do so with urgency for our climate and for the people whose lives and livelihoods hang in the balance. The proposed exploitation of the Rosebank oilfield is a moment of reckoning—a choice between clinging to fossil fuel profits and choosing a future that is rooted in fairness, community and justice.”
“The updated guidance requires that the climate impacts of the emissions arising from the consumption, as well as the initial production of oil and gas, must be considered. As I said, the Scottish Government has long called for an enhanced climate compatibility approach to be taken to decisions on North Sea oil and gas developments, including the consideration of the fuel impacts. As outlined in the Government’s amendment, which I commend to Parliament, that is at the heart of what we want. We want energy security, we want that compatibility assessment and we want to ensure that Scotland can continue on its journey towards net zero. The Deputy Presiding Officer: Maggie Chapman will wind up the debate. 15:57”
“At the heart of Jamie Greene’s and other members’ contributions were questions about the just transition that will take place over several decades to come. A lot is happening to put in place the measures for that. For example, just recently, the First Minister opened an energy transition skills hub in Aberdeen. Many other measures are being taken besides that. The UK Government is midway through the decision-making process on the application for the Rosebank field to receive consents to enter production. Although the process comes under a reserved matter, it is nonetheless important for us all to be aware of the detail. We have the court rulings, and the UK regulator published updated statutory guidance for undertaking environmental impact assessments to inform offshore oil and gas consenting.”
“Many of the issues that we are discussing are incredibly complex, as Daniel Johnson referenced. It is not simply a case of denying the climate crisis, as some members might imply. Neither is it a case of simply shutting off the oil and gas jobs and causing economic dislocation in our country, particularly in the north- east, which others give the impression might be the solution. I hope that that is not the position, but sometimes that is the impression that we, as politicians, give the public when we have vigorous debates. We should not give that impression in these difficult, complex times. Jamie Greene also said that he would want the Government to make a statement on ScotWind and a recent licence issue. I indicate to him that we accept that request and that such a statement will be made.”
“They should listen to the person who has the floor. Currently, that is Patrick Harvie. Patrick Harvie: A moment ago, the minister was laying claim to climate leadership on behalf of the Government. Why does he think that Nicola Sturgeon had the courage to say what she thinks of this particular project—Rosebank—and the current Government does not? I ask him to reflect on that, please. Richard Lochhead: The Scottish Government’s position has always been consistent: such matters should be treated case by case and a vigorous compatibility assessment of our climate obligations should be put in place. That has been our constant message under each of the First Ministers of this SNP Government. In my remaining two minutes I will turn to other members’ contributions. Jamie Greene’s opening remarks were very balanced.”
“Referring to the unfortunate loss of some jobs due to the downturn in oil and gas activity, the chief executive of the Port of Aberdeen said that we need to speed up the creation of renewables jobs. However, the member who has just intervened criticises ministers for what he terms “cosying up” to wind farm companies. Those are the very companies that will supply the jobs that the chief executive of the Port of Aberdeen wants to see being created to stop the job losses that the member is complaining about. It is utter hypocrisy after utter hypocrisy. Douglas Lumsden: That is unbelievable. Patrick Harvie: [Made a request to intervene.] Richard Lochhead: I will take Mr Harvie’s intervention. The Deputy Presiding Officer: I remind Conservative members that they have been given interventions and had a chance to make their points.”
“Douglas Lumsden: Do you think that Gillian Martin’s constituents— The Deputy Presiding Officer: Speak through the chair. Douglas Lumsden: Sorry. Does the minister think that Gillian Martin’s constituents will be happy that she is one of the top 100 people in climate change when they see our constituencies being railroaded with pylons, substations and everything else? Richard Lochhead: The member makes an interesting point. I am sure that others have noticed the anti-renewables rhetoric that is increasingly coming from members on the Conservative benches. That party used to have a green tree as its national emblem, to show that it loved the environment. Those days are long gone, given the rhetoric that we hear from it in Scotland today.”
“We are discussing profound matters today. I believe that Scotland is showing global leadership on tackling the climate crisis. As we speak, the Cabinet Secretary for Climate Action and Energy is in Brazil, at COP30, representing Scotland, showing leadership and collaborating with the international community. I notice that Douglas Lumsden presents that as jet setting. In the past 24 hours, Time magazine has named the cabinet secretary as one of the 100 top climate leaders. I congratulate her on that achievement, which recognises, on the international stage, Scotland’s leadership in tackling the climate crisis. Douglas Lumsden: Will the member give way? Patrick Harvie: Will the member take an intervention? Richard Lochhead: I will take both interventions.”
“Will the member take an intervention? Edward Mountain: Do I have time, Deputy Presiding Officer? The Deputy Presiding Officer: No. Edward Mountain: Okay. I am sure that the member knows that I would have taken an intervention, but I do not have time. We can exploit the resource in such a way as to make sure that we do not damage the environment. Importing it from elsewhere will probably ensure that that will happen. 15:52 Richard Lochhead: I also welcome this debate, which the Green Party has brought to the chamber. The issue of climate change raises profound questions that affect our society, our economy and our planet, not just for our generation but for those in the future. As the father of two sons, I often wonder what the world will be like when they are my age—not just in relation to climate change but on many other related issues.”
“If Scotland is to be a good global citizen, our responsibility does not end at our borders. It extends to Ekules in Ethiopia, whose goats were replenished through Scottish support, and to the children in Zomba, Malawi, who can now return to school after floods. Their resilience is our legacy—let us honour that legacy. As the writer Arundhati Roy once said, “Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing.” Let us make that world breathe more freely, through justice, through solidarity and through the courage and compassion to act as though that better world depends on us, because it does. 19:35”
“It is happening now in droughts that destroy livelihoods, in the floods that wash away graveyards, and in the trauma of families being forced to leave their ancestral homes. It is an emergency that is rooted in inequality: the richest 1 per cent of humanity produces more emissions than the poorest two thirds combined. That is not a failure of technology—it is a failure of politics and of justice. Let Scotland once again stand on the side of justice. Let us back the call from the most climate-vulnerable nations for a fossil fuel non-proliferation treaty, which is a bold, fair plan to phase out fossil fuels and ensure that no worker or community is left behind. At COP26, I said that climate justice is about more than emissions; it is about who we stand with and who we choose to protect. That remains true today.”
“We can do that by joining the fill the fund campaign, which is pressing the world’s richest nations to make grant-based donations and ensure that there is direct access for the communities that are most affected. We can do that by establishing a centre of excellence for loss and damage in Scotland, which will link our universities, non-governmental organisations, and our partners in the global south to drive innovation and justice. We can do that by matching our words with action at home and maintaining our international development fund at £15 million a year, increasing the climate justice fund to the same level, and making polluters pay through measures such as a private jet tax, or other mechanisms that will link our high-carbon economy to its real human costs. The climate emergency is not some abstract future.”
“It built the momentum that led to the establishment of the global loss and damage fund at COP27—a fund that will, for the first time, help those who are living with the irreversible consequences of a crisis that they did not cause. Scotland’s courage helped to open the door. However, opening the door is not the same as walking through it. The fund remains dangerously underresourced. Communities are still waiting for support as their homes are flooded, their crops fail and their futures disappear. Every tonne of carbon that is emitted and every missed emissions target add to the loss and damage that are borne by the poorest. This is our challenge: to make good on the promise that began in Glasgow and to ensure that Scotland’s leadership continues not as symbolism, but as substance.”
“In 2021, the world came to Glasgow for COP26. Amid the noise of pledges and the hum of negotiations, something truly historic happened; not in the official halls of power, but in the moral leadership that was shown by Scotland. We became the first country in the world to commit funding for loss and damage. We recognised that the climate crisis is not only about carbon—it is about justice. I am so grateful for, and I pay tribute to, Nicola Sturgeon for her determination then, and her on-going commitment to loss and damage funding now. The first £2 million, later expanded to £10 million, was not a grand act of charity. It was an act of solidarity and reparation. It said to communities in Malawi, Ethiopia, and South Sudan, “We see you; we hear you; and we will not look away.” That decision mattered.”
“Will the member take an intervention? Liam Kerr: I am very sorry, but I have only three minutes. Presiding Officer, “Public confidence in Scotland’s criminal justice system is being eroded with these measures.” Victim Support Scotland said that, and it is right. A Government that rips up sentences that are independently imposed on criminals by judges for a very good reason makes a mockery of our justice system, weakens deterrence and sends precisely the wrong message to victims and communities. I will not vote to expose the public to risk, trash respect for our courts and sentencing and retraumatise victims, simply to absolve the Government of its failure of foresight and planning. Those MSPs who do should hang their heads in shame. The Deputy Presiding Officer: I call the cabinet secretary to respond. 18:51”
“Amendment 106 disagreed to. Section 24—Rent review: limited duration tenancies Amendments 356 to 362 moved—[Douglas Lumsden]—and agreed to. Amendment 230 moved—[Mairi Gougeon]. The Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 230 be agreed to. Are we all agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division. The vote is closed.”
“For Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Reform) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Patrick Harvie] Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Patrick Harvie] Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) [Proxy vote cast by Michael Marra] Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Maggie Chapman] Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Fulton MacGregor] Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 28, Against 87, Abstentions 0.”
“Amendment 229 agreed to. Amendment 106 moved—[Edward Mountain]. The Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 106 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division.”
“For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Patrick Harvie] Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Patrick Harvie] Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) [Proxy vote cast by Michael Marra] Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Maggie Chapman] Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Fulton MacGregor] Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Against Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Reform) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 88, Against 28, Abstentions 0.”
“On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I was struggling with the app. I would have cast a vote for myself and for Lorna Slater. We would both have voted yes. The Presiding Officer: We will ensure that those votes are recorded.”
“It would allow ministers to defend themselves against the expensive legal challenges that I believe will inevitably follow, especially in relation to part 1, and which I hear are already being mooted.”
“I believe that it could now fundamentally harm the sector and that it will not fulfil the key objectives that the cabinet secretary laid out at the beginning of the year, which were to strengthen the rights of communities, to diversify land ownership, to support the use of land for environmental purposes and to modernise the legal framework for tenant farmers. As the bill has been amended, I believe that referring it back to the committee is the only appropriate step that would ensure that the provisions are sufficiently considered. Those provisions cannot be seen as a whole at the same time as they are being passed. That approach would have benefits.”
“The reason that sits behind that provision in the standing orders is to allow the member who is in charge of a bill to take account of the position that the bill is in before going to the stage 3 debate, after which it cannot be amended. That may well, indeed, prevent some of the consequences of rushed legislation that the member has spoken of in the past. Edward Mountain: I thank Mr Whitfield for those comments. He is entirely right, because the bill has changed fundamentally since it was introduced to the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee. That is why I suggest that there should be further consideration. So that there is no doubt, I point out that I say that as an individual, although I am a member of that committee. The bill has fundamentally changed.”
“Paragraphs 6, 7 and 8 of rule 9.8 set out that, before the stage 3 debate, the member in charge of the bill may, by motion, propose that such parts of the bill “be referred back to the committee for further Stage 2 consideration.” I propose that the cabinet secretary take responsibility for the substantive changes that have been made to the bill, and send part 1, as well as sections 10, 10A to 10D, 11, 12, 13, 23 and 24, back to the committee for further consideration. Martin Whitfield: We have had a number of pieces of legislation where the stage 3s have spread over a number of weeks and a number of sittings, and where the completion of the bill has been unknown as we have entered into the stage 3 debate. There have been circumstances where perhaps we would have wished, as a Parliament, for things to be the other way.”
“The tenant and the landlord sit around a kitchen table, with some home baking and/or a bottle of whisky. At the end of the process, neither party has achieved exactly the figure that they wanted, but a fair compromise has been reached. That is what I would like to see here. As this is the last group of amendments, I would also like to take a moment to remind the cabinet secretary of a seldom-used rule under the standing orders of this Parliament.”
“Mr Lumsden’s amendments 349 to 362 add reasonable provisions that improvements to the land made by the tenant should not be taken into account by the Land Court when rental value of the holding is being determined. I do not support amendments 229 and 230, as both change ministers’ regulating powers so that they can make further provision, by way of regulations, on 1991 and 2003 act tenancies with regard to rent reviews. As I have detailed in my copious previous comments on the matter, I am fundamentally opposed to ministers retrospectively adjusting agricultural tenancies, because I believe that those kinds of changes are killing off the rental sector. My experience of doing a rent review is that it usually involves a process that I have seen many times.”
“It is important that the rent review process is fair and that there is clarity for tenants and landlords with regard to how rent is to be calculated, including what is to be taken into account. The amendments ensure that the bill achieves that, and I therefore ask that members support all the amendments in the group. Edward Mountain: As this is the last group of amendments to be considered, I propose to make some general comments on this group and another matter. I support the amendments lodged by my colleague Douglas Lumsden, which are in response to concerns raised at stages 1 and 2 regarding gaps in the rent review provisions.”
“As he has explained, the amendments provide clarity in relation to the matters that the Land Court is to have regard to, or is not to take into account, when determining the fair rent for a holding. They cover important points, including the principle that a tenant’s rent should not be increased as a result of improvements that have been carried out at their expense. Amendments 229 and 230 in my name relate to the powers in the bill for ministers to make further provision on the matters that the Land Court is to have regard to or take no account of in determining the fair rent of the holding. They modify the description of the consultation duty on the Scottish ministers prior to laying draft regulations under the powers to ensure drafting consistency.”
“Amendments 350, 352, 353, 357, 359 and 360 make consequential and related modifications to streamline the drafting of and consolidate the matters that the Land Court is not to take into account when determining the fair rent for the holding. That also means that the related powers in the bill for the Scottish ministers to make further provision for those purposes will extend to all those matters. I ask that members support the amendments in my name, and I move amendment 349. Mairi Gougeon: The amendments in this group build on the important changes to the rent review process for tenant farmers and their landlords in the bill. Douglas Lumsden’s amendments mainly relate to points raised at stage 2 on which I have been pleased to work with him to address at stage 3.”
“The amendments provide that the Land Court will not take into account the proportionate amount of the increase in the rental value corresponding to the proportion of the cost of the improvements made at the tenant’s expense, and at the landlord’s expense if they receive grant funding. The amendments also set out further detail on what is classed as being at the tenant’s expense for those purposes. For example, an improvement is still regarded as being at the tenant’s expense, wholly or partially depending on how it was funded, when the tenant receives a grant, and the adoption of higher farming standards by the tenant is classed as an improvement wholly at the tenant’s expense.”
“They make equivalent changes to section 23 of the bill, relating to 1991 act tenancies, and to section 24, relating to various limited duration tenancies. Amendments 349 and 356 clarify that the Land Court, when determining the fair rent for a holding, is to have regard to the open market rental value of any fixed equipment, if it is provided by the landlord and used by the tenant for a non- agricultural purpose. The approach clarifies that the fixed equipment does not need to have been provided by the landlord specifically for a non- agricultural purpose for its rental value to be taken into account. Amendments 351, 354, 355, 358, 361 and 362 address how improvements to the holding are taken into account when determining the rental value, depending on whether they have been paid for by the landlord, by the tenant or on a shared basis.”
“Amendment 348 disagreed to. Section 23—Rent review: 1991 Act tenancies The Presiding Officer: We move to group 29, on rent reviews. Amendment 349, in the name of Douglas Lumsden, is grouped with amendments 350 to 355, 229, 356 to 362 and 230. Douglas Lumsden: I have good news: this is the final group—and I am not going to speak about pylons, either. At stage 2, I lodged amendments relating to the rent review provisions in the bill, and I have worked with the cabinet secretary ahead of stage 3 so that I can lodge these amendments on the same topic. I thank the cabinet secretary and her team for their co-operation. The amendments in my name relate to matters that the Land Court is either to have regard to or not to take into account when determining the fair rent for a holding.”
“For Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Patrick Harvie] Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) [Proxy vote cast by Michael Marra] Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Proxy vote cast by Maggie Chapman Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Fulton MacGregor] Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 28, Against 89, Abstentions 0.”
“Amendment 105 disagreed to. Amendment 348 moved—[Edward Mountain]. The Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 348 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division.”
“For Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Patrick Harvie] Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) [Proxy vote cast by Michael Marra] Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Maggie Chapman] Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Fulton MacGregor] Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 27, Against 91, Abstentions 0.”
“Goodness knows, considering the value of some livestock—I am thinking of the very high value of pedigree cattle in particular—most farmers would be acutely aware if they felt that things were unfair, but no one has mentioned that to me. 21:45 As far as grouse moors are concerned, we are talking about defining grouse as a game bird species. I have already said that those species are protected and that no one can do anything about that, so it seems unfair and blatantly wrong in law to hold someone responsible for something that they are not legally allowed to do anything to. I press amendment 105 and urge members to support it together with amendment 348. The Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 105 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division.”
“I would be interested to know whether she could give me an example of an infection that game birds can give to livestock. I have never come across one. I am not sure that there is such an infection—in fact, I am 99 per cent sure that there is not—but I would be grateful if the cabinet secretary could define that or give me an example, given that she is using it as her reason for opposing my amendments. I see that the cabinet secretary is not about to provide any examples. Leaving gates open and causing damage to livestock through vehicles moving around on game shooting days have already been covered. Those are simple acts of damage that tenants can claim for and are ones for which the landlord would be responsible.”
“In all cases, it would be for the tenant farmer to evidence direct and indirect damage by game, which would be unfair and which is why we oppose the amendment. Amendment 348 would prevent a tenant farmer from being able to claim for damage that was caused by game management techniques or equipment on grouse moors. Again, that would be unfair, given the range of behaviours displayed by some sporting tenants, and it is only fair that a tenant farmer should be able to claim for damage caused to their holding during game management—for example, damage caused to fencing, gates or fields. On that basis, both those amendments are unfair, which is why I urge members to reject them. The Presiding Officer: I call Edward Mountain to wind up and to press or withdraw amendment 105. Edward Mountain: I listened to the cabinet secretary’s explanation.”
“I have been managing livestock and wildlife for more than 40 years, and section 20 does not make any sense to me. I would be grateful to hear the cabinet secretary’s argument on why I am wrong. I move amendment 105. Mairi Gougeon: Edward Mountain’s amendment 105 would prevent our tenant farmers from being able to claim for damage caused to livestock by game or game management. That would mean that they would not be able to claim compensation if livestock were to suffer harm as a result of actions taken for game management purposes, such as removing fences and gates that limit access to farmland. It would also prevent a tenant farmer from being able to claim for damage caused by game where a tenant can show that, for example, game animals have transmitted disease or infection to livestock.”
“However, I do not believe that that is what the book says. Let us be clear that capercaillie are grouse, and capercaillie are protected by law. Let us also be clear that there is a self-imposed moratorium on killing black game, which is correct. Therefore, to make the landlord liable for damage that has allegedly been done by species, one of which is protected by the law and the other of which is protected by a voluntary agreement, is fundamentally wrong, but that is what the bill is doing. If the cabinet secretary meant red grouse, the bill should have said “red grouse”, but to simply say “grouse”, which includes ptarmigan, capercaillie and black game, is to use a broad- brush term. I do not believe that landlords can be held responsible for something that they cannot control by law and are advised not to.”