Roz McCall
Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party · Scotland
“That restraint and seclusion have been used inconsistently and without parents being told is worrying, and that is exactly what the bill hopes to address. When parents find out what has happened to their child only because of bruises, distress and changes in behaviour, that is not just a failure to communicate; it is a failure of trust.”
“Beth Morrison and Kate Sanger have been mentioned by absolutely everyone who has contributed to the debate, which shows just how much work they have done to contact every single one of us, to lobby us and to highlight how important the legislation is.”
“Further discussion is not needed—decisive action is. The recommendations in the “Strengthening the Safety Net” report talk about having a national adoption practice model, improved training, mandatory data collection, enhanced crisis intervention and a more flexible adoption allowance.”
“Other areas of concern include the robust transfer of post-adoption support from a specialist adoption team to generic children and families services after three years. In theory, that might seem to be administratively tidy, but in practice it fails to reflect the complexity and longevity of adoptive family life.”
“I thank Fulton MacGregor for bringing the motion to the chamber and for continuing to highlight the importance of strengthening adoption support for families across Scotland.”
“My very first debate on this issue when I became an MSP was a members’ business debate on Scotland’s forgotten children, focusing on adoption in Scotland and the urgent need to improve post- adoption support.”
The complete record
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“That is not good enough. The Children and Young People's Commissioner Scotland wrote to the minister on 20 February with three specific questions, and the minister was unable to answer those during questioning at the Education, Children and Young People Committee this morning. So, how many children in each of the past six months have been unable to be placed in secure care? Is the minister still of the view that redundant overprovision would be contrary to the Promise, and if so, how confident is she that the measures that she announced in her statement today will not result in the very same overprovision? I note the minister’s commitment to working with the third sector to identify high-intensity wraparound services. Again, there has been a lack of urgency, and the issues should have been foreseen.”
“I thank the minister for advance sight of her statement. The strain on Scotland’s secure accommodation provision and the complex factors involved might not have been foreseeable, but they were certainly possible, and I raised those concerns at the time. The fact is that the minister and the Scottish Government were told, time and again during the passage of the Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Act 2024, that the situation in which we now find ourselves was entirely possible. It is a shameful dereliction of duty that nothing was done in anticipation. I welcome the commitment to building contingencies in the system as we move forward. However, the Scottish Government had a long lead-in time to prepare, and a lack of urgency has resulted in vulnerable children being denied the support and protection that they require.”
“Those are all signs of criminal manipulation, and I urge anyone with concerns about their children or any of the children they know to reach out, especially to groups such as Action for Children, to get the support that they need. 13:01”
“However, we were advised that the bill would be introduced at the start of 2025 and we are now heading towards the Easter recess, so I am concerned that delays will find us rapidly running out of time to scrutinise the bill—or, worse, that we will run out of time for it to be passed before the end of the parliamentary session. I will do what I can to raise awareness of the topic. It is important that parents, carers and loved ones look out for tell-tale signs, which include sudden changes in friendship groups, especially if the friendship is with somebody who is older than the child or young person; changes in behaviour, physical appearance and language, such as the use of code words for drugs or sex; and unexplained gifts, money or, worse, injuries.”
“If we do not step up and protect the children who are falling through the cracks in our system, we face discussing the issue again in years to come. We do not need to wait for another 100 years— we need action. As Action for Children suggested, the Promise bill that is to be introduced could take massive legislative strides in closing the gaps in the system for Scotland’s children. Unfortunately, we are no further forward with what the bill will entail, the scope of its legislative changes and the outcomes that are expected from it. I appreciate the time that the minister has afforded me on the topic, and I respect the fact that it will be a complex bill that has to cover many issues.”
“That is even more staggering when we realise that it is just the tip of the iceberg. Because of the complexities of this type of exploitation, the figures that we have are underestimates. Often children either do not recognise that they are being manipulated, because they consider their abuser to be their friend, or are so afraid that harm could be inflicted on themselves or a loved one that they simply do not admit to the situation in which they find themselves. The manipulation and coercion of children for criminal ends is not new. There is a long- established process of persuading and encouraging the most vulnerable in our society to take up criminal exploits. We only have to look at novels by Charles Dickens—“Oliver Twist” comes to mind—to see how little we have progressed in this area in nearly 200 years.”
“It is important that we meet the Promise’s milestone targets, as the Promise being kept will stem from the essential work that is being done to change those societal issues. However, in our debates on the Promise, we seldom focus on the people who would utilise the gaps in the system for their own nefarious desires. I do not believe that anyone in Parliament would dissent from the statement that the criminal exploitation of children is abhorrent and that all steps to eradicate it from Scotland should be explored and enacted. I also thank Action for Children for its briefing for the debate and for highlighting its national polling data. It is horrific to think that 130,000 parents in the UK are saying that their child has experienced three or more of the signs of criminal exploitation in the past year alone.”
“I thank Michael Matheson for bringing this extremely important issue to the chamber. His contribution was excellent. It is important that we recognise the need to define, to collect data and to work across bodies to make a change. We are very aware of the issues surrounding children and young people who suffer from poverty and deprivation in our society, but, as Michael Matheson mentioned, criminal exploitation also involves children from more well-off backgrounds. As a Parliament, we regularly debate the impacts of systemic failure and poverty on the lives of and outcomes for children, and we reaffirm our drive and determination to ensure that the Promise is met by 2030.”
“The people of Scotland deserve a healthcare system that is modern, efficient and fit for purpose. We must take bold action to ensure that digital innovation is at the heart of our NHS, and the Scottish Conservatives are committed to delivering practical, patient-focused solutions to achieve that goal. The time for excuses and warm words is at an end. It is time for action, now. 16:10”
“It seems an excellent way to embrace modern technology and, by dealing with everyday inquiries, benefit the patients of Scotland. We would also invest in AI and data-driven healthcare, as AI has the potential to revolutionise diagnostics and treatment. I note the cabinet secretary’s comments on diabetes treatment advancements. Scotland was once a leader in AI- driven diabetes screening, but it has stalled and fallen behind in adopting further advancements. I welcome the comments, but time is of the essence. We will bring forward a digital choice approach. Technology should be used to empower patients. We propose a permanent adoption of home healthcare technologies, including smart inhalers and remote monitoring, to reduce unnecessary hospital visits and improve the quality of life for those with chronic conditions.”
“He said: “we must have committed leadership in government, the health sector, and social care.” We cannot afford to stand still while other nations embrace the future of healthcare. The Scottish Conservatives believe in harnessing innovation to create a truly modern and efficient healthcare system. We are proposing a 24-hour, seven-day-a-week digital health service by introducing the my NHS Scotland app. I know that it has been stated that it does not work, but more than 33 million people in England benefit from the system, and I know many for whom it works. Here in Scotland, the SNP has failed to deliver on the long-promised digital front door initiative. The my NHS Scotland app would allow patients to book appointments, check waiting times and access personal health records with ease.”
“I also appreciate the comments that he has made regarding advancements in stroke treatment—as he knows, that is very important to me. We also know that budget constraints and workforce shortages have further impeded progress, with 84 per cent of doctors reporting having insufficient staff to meet rising demands. Professor Mark Logan, the Scottish Government’s chief entrepreneurial adviser, stated that our health and care system is failing to innovate out of choice. As has been mentioned by my colleague Dr Gulhane, J D Blackwood, an AI lead for NHS Forth Valley, has said that an absence of strong national leadership in artificial intelligence means that Scotland’s patients are not benefiting from the digital innovations that could transform their outcomes.”
“Roz McCall: I am aware of the National Robotarium, and I have visited it. It is fantastic. I cannot disagree with what the cabinet secretary says, and I thank him for his intervention. In the past, the Scottish Government has repeatedly pledged to modernise healthcare through digital transformation and AI services, but the reality falls short of the promises that have been made. The SNP Government has been slow and inconsistent in rolling out its digital health and care strategy and, as we have already heard, Scotland has been left lagging behind. However, I note the points that the cabinet secretary made in his opening remarks. I hope that they come to fruition and are not just warm words, because Scottish patients deserve better.”
“There are many opportunities to utilise artificial intelligence systems to reduce their workloads, but our outdated systems do not have the capacity to ensure that we can capitalise on those developments. It is important that we broaden our spectrum away from and look beyond just medical innovation. Neil Gray: I thank Roz McCall for drawing attention to the importance of embracing innovation in the social care sector as well. At the start of my speech, I mentioned the work of the National Robotarium, where phenomenal businesses are exploring robotics and digital technologies that allow for more efficient, productive and supportive technologies in the social care environment. Is Roz McCall familiar with that work? If not, I will make sure that I point her in its direction.”
“It is a privilege to contribute to the debate this afternoon on innovation in health and social care. The truth is that, in Scotland, we are at a critical juncture in how we are to deliver health and social care in the years ahead. We have a huge opportunity to transform our NHS and social care services through innovation, to ensure better outcomes for patients and alleviate the pressures on our dedicated healthcare professionals. Innovation is not just a buzzword; it must be a commitment that is backed by action. I will add to what Mr Stewart and the cabinet secretary said, because I will throw social care into the mix and talk about the related social work sector. We know that our social workers are overstretched and overworked.”
“As I said in response to Alex Cole-Hamilton and in my statement, I believe that the delay was necessary, but it will have had an impact on the children and their families. I recognise that, so I will endeavour to respond more formally to Roz McCall’s question.”
“The cabinet secretary’s statement highlighted that the report raises concerns that there were a number of instances in which the governance process or aspects of operational management were ineffectively implemented. We now know that that resulted in 1,586 appointments in paediatrics being affected. It is very worrying that children experienced a reduction in care due to operational management inadequacies. What work has been done to assess the impact of that issue on the children in regard to their treatment at the time and since then? Neil Gray: Roz McCall makes a fair point. I will need to come back to her on the impact of the delay in opening, which was some time ago now.”
“It is akin to kids saying, “If you don’t play my game, you’re wrong and I hate you.” Most people stopped saying that in primary school. That argument is not only infantile; it also shows a distinct lack of rationale and nuance and it should be condemned. It is not beyond the powers of the Government to ensure that we have the right facilities in our schools so that everyone feels comfortable, and that includes single-sex spaces. 16:10”
“Can I get some clarity from Roz McCall on whether she supports trans people accessing single-sex spaces? Roz McCall: As I was going on to say, I want to make sure that everybody feels comfortable. If women are uncomfortable in a situation, their rights should not be reduced just because there is a gender recognition certificate for a man who is coming into that space. I want to ensure that people feel comfortable in the facilities that are provided. I do not have a problem with that, but all rights need to be protected. It is not transphobic to stand up for women. It is not pitting one group against another. I am constantly disappointed by the childish argument that, if someone disagrees with a single point, they are not only wrong—as has been said—but also afraid and evil.”
“There is a lot in this debate and we have listened closely to what people are saying, but I have one final point to make. I have heard that it is important that people feel comfortable in the facilities that are provided for them. Personally, I have— Mercedes Villalba: Will the member take an intervention? Roz McCall: I am coming to the end of my speech, but I will give way. Mercedes Villalba: I hear the concern that the member puts across about men accessing women’s spaces and causing harm, but I seek some clarity from members on the Conservative benches. We heard from Murdo Fraser the idea that trans people should have a third, separate space rather than using the single-sex space that aligns with their gender. He seems to be suggesting that that should apply even if the person has a gender recognition certificate.”
“It was also found that one in 20 schools offered exclusively gender-neutral facilities, as we have heard, so there was no single-sex provision at all. Trina Budge, the director of For Women Scotland, said: “Rather than take steps to fix this mess and require schools to comply with the current law, it seems that the Scottish government may be looking to change the law to permit mixed-sex toilets and thus retrospectively justify the breaches they have allowed to happen.” I can only agree with that, because that is how it seems. The Scottish Government is planning to amend the regulations, it states, to ensure that they meet the needs of pupils in schools in Scotland today, yet those self-same changes have come about only because of the actions of the Scottish Government in the first place.”
“However, we now have a situation in which, if a biological man who says that he is a woman enters a changing facility and exposes himself, it is the women who could be arrested. The debate is not about social convention or how progressive Scotland is; it is about protection for women and girls and providing single-sex spaces for them in schools, as that is the law. The EHRC’s guidance for schools highlights that the law in Scotland “requires schools to provide toilet facilities for boys and for girls.” In 2024, only 13 of 243 secondary schools in Scotland provided single-sex toilets. That is a shocking statistic, considering that schools premises regulations from 1967 state that there must be provision for single-sex spaces, and those regulations still stand.”
“We are looking at schools all over Scotland having removed access to single-sex facilities based on Scottish Government guidance, which could have local authorities inadvertently breaking the law. SNP guidance to schools does not protect single-sex toilets. The guidance says: “There is no law in Scotland which states that only people assigned male at birth can use men’s toilets and changing rooms, or that only people assigned female can use women’s toilets and changing rooms. This is instead done by social convention.” I question that. Are we saying that, if a biological man enters a ladies’ changing facility, undresses and exposes himself, he would be arrested for indecent exposure because it is against a societal norm? No—it is against the law.”
“The Scottish Conservative motion is about protecting single-sex spaces in the public sector. That should not be a contentious issue. There is legislation that protects that in Scottish law, including the 2010 act, workplace regulations and school premises regulations. It should be a very simple topic, with clear and explicit guidance from the Scottish Government to the public sector on how to ensure that all the current legal regulations are accommodated, met and even enforced. Unfortunately, that is not the case. Although the motion highlights that there is an issue with the reduction, if not removal, of single- sex facilities across the public sector, I will limit my remarks to the concerns around school provision.”
“Kate Forbes: I will answer Roz McCall’s question in the same spirit in which I answered Colin Smyth’s, by recognising members’ interest in ensuring that the inquiry is as robust as possible. It is important that the Scottish child abuse inquiry remains independent and that its chair, Lady Smith, has the ability to decide how the inquiry fulfils its terms of reference, which I believe are broad. We have been clear that we will carefully consider the inquiry’s findings and recommendations, and that we will move as speedily as possible to implement those recommendations. The Deputy Presiding Officer: We need to move on to question 3. Economic Development (Direct Links with Markets) 3.”
“I note the Deputy First Minister’s response, but the original question related to gaps in the Scottish child abuse inquiry, and her response brings me back to that. Allegations have been made about covering up patterns of behaviour among male teachers that relate to physical and sexual abuse; hiding behind the general data protection regulation; social workers withholding information from records and placing children at significant risk of physical, sexual and emotional abuse; and cover-ups of the mishandling of child protection in schools, to name but a few of the concerns. What more is the Scottish Government doing to fill those gaps in the inquiry to ensure that our children are safe?”
“Full implementation of those changes will be reliant on a cost collection exercise that will be undertaken in spring 2025, which will look at things such as bringing the rates that are paid to childminders into line with those for other types of provision, setting a higher rate for two-year-olds, staffing ratios and separating payments for free meals. I am more than happy to continue discussing with the member other ways in which we are supporting the PVI sector if she so wishes. The Deputy Presiding Officer: I apologise to the members whom I could not call for supplementaries. That concludes portfolio questions on education and skills. Before we move to the next item of business, there will be a brief pause to allow members on the front benches to change over. Local Government Finance (Scotland) Order 2025 [Draft]”
“Urgent action to tackle underfunding in the sector—in which staff turnover rates are far higher than they should be—is desperately needed. Will the minister tell us what more she is doing with the private, voluntary and independent sector to address the continuing disparity between private and state nurseries? Natalie Don-Innes: As set out in the draft budget, we will provide an additional £9.7 million to local authorities to support an increase in the pay of childcare workers in the private and third sectors. Over and above that, the member will be aware of continuing work in relation to the sustainable rates review.”
“To ask the Scottish Government what discussions the justice secretary has had with ministerial colleagues regarding action to counter the reported proliferation of child sex abuse images online. (S6O-04355)”
“The reason why the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care and I are meeting the three chief executives and commissioning both the internal and external reviews and the Mental Welfare Commission’s visits is that we are absolutely determined to scrutinise whether that process has occurred, and whether boards are taking on board the concerns that are being raised and acting on them.”
“Will the minister outline what the current communication process is between the Mental Welfare Commission and NHS boards, and how the Scottish Government intends to review the process to ensure that nothing falls through the gaps? Maree Todd: Roz McCall is absolutely correct to shine a light on the question of how boards respond to Mental Welfare Commission concerns. The commission will write after either an announced or an unannounced inspection, and in doing so will make recommendations. It is the expectation of ministers that those recommendations will be acted on. They will go into the usual clinical governance processes in the health board, so they should be acted on.”
“In the statement, the minister committed to taking very seriously all resultant recommendations on how we can improve scrutiny of our CAMHS facilities. It is shocking that young people have been treated in such a manner, as is the delay—which has already been mentioned by my colleague Meghan Gallacher—before anything is done by the Scottish Government. The minister rightly states that the Mental Welfare Commission is an independent body that has limited time frames for its visits. However, we need to ensure that communication between the commission and NHS boards is not only robust but is able to flag up relevant concerns as a matter of urgency.”
“We will track progress in a number of ways. If Roz McCall has other ideas or if there are other areas that she would like to see a focus on, I am more than happy to discuss them with her.”
“I accept that we may not be where we wished we would be when the Promise was made in 2020, but as I said in my statement, there has been a pandemic and a cost of living crisis. However, we are in a good position. There has been real leadership and real policy change that will make a real impact on the lives of children and young people. The member noted issues around the cluttered landscape, which I alluded to in my statement. Work on that is on-going, and it is something that I am very aware of in my thinking around the Promise bill. I have already discussed that with the member, and I am more than happy to continue to do so. I note the importance of the Promise progress framework and the different factors in it that will help to track progress across the whole landscape, whether at Scottish Government or local authority level.”
“I am afraid that the minister’s statement will do absolutely nothing to address those issues. Frankly, it does not display the leadership that is needed. How will the Scottish Government ensure that the cluttered policy landscape that is detailed in the report will be addressed? Secondly, how will progress be measured and data be collected to ensure that progress towards 2030 can be put back on track? Thirdly, how will the Scottish Government work at pace to articulate a clear set of milestones that will guarantee that the Promise is kept? Natalie Don-Innes: I thank Roz McCall for her questions, but I disagree with her saying that nothing in the statement will help to deliver the Promise. I clearly set out the actions that have been taken and a recognition that we still have a way to go.”
“I thank the minister for advance sight of her statement and for all the points that have been mentioned in it, but the report from the oversight board is saying, “It is not enough.” The report should be a wake-up call for the Scottish Government that we are not on track to deliver the Promise by 2030. Specifically, the report notes that, in order to keep the Promise, we need “explicit leadership and drive from Scottish Government and scrutiny bodies to articulate a clear set of principles, outcomes and milestones” and that that leadership has been severely lacking. There have been shortcomings that have needed urgent attention, including workforce shortages, financial instability for care labourers, inadequate focus, fragmented services and lack of co-ordination—as I have said before, the list goes on.”
“The cabinet secretary will be aware of the cuts to services by Fife health and social care partnership, which is partially funded by NHS Fife. Given that NHS Fife is spending astronomical sums of money on a dismissal case involving a staff member who raised concerns about basic rights to a single-sex changing facility, what will the cabinet secretary do to ensure that financial mismanagement does not affect care for residents in Fife? Neil Gray: Clearly, we work with NHS Fife and the health and social care partnership, as we do with health boards across the country, to make sure that the resource that we are committing—it is £21.7 billion in the budget for the next financial year—addresses the issues that we face in the health service and results in improvements. I expect all boards to come forward with plans in that regard.”
“To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on what action it can take to challenge the United Kingdom Government’s inheritance tax changes for farmers. (S6O-04320)”
“Assuming that the Parliament agrees to the reforms, we need to use them to develop the offering in parallel, so that we will have an offering that is much better aligned to what employers are looking for and what our young people deserve. At the heart of this, we need an approach that shows that we want to give our young people long-term, sustainable and well-paid employment. If we take that alongside the point about the economy, we will make progress.”
“There is no doubt that, as it is currently configured, we do not get the best value or the best return, partly because the system is fragmented and two different bodies are funding the same provision, in some respects. As I said before, we believe that making the changes that we have alluded to will give us the opportunity to get a hold of this and to shape the offering in a way that will be more transparent and more responsive to the needs of the economy. Everyone says to me, “We would like more apprentices and more money for them.” That is the nature of it. No one ever says, “Minister, we’ve got enough money.” I am not going to stand here and say that we have forecast that we will be able to create X more apprentices as a result of the changes.”
“Scotland’s apprenticeship system is essential for skills development, which needs sustained investment. With on-going labour market challenges, it is crucial that funding structures are better aligned to support apprenticeships and the economy. Given the recommendations in the Withers review, which highlights the need for better co-ordination between the Scottish Government, the Scottish Funding Council and Skills Development Scotland, can the minister confirm that the transfer of funding responsibilities from SDS to the SFC will ensure that apprenticeships will finally be properly funded and will be aligned with Scotland’s needs? How many additional apprenticeship places does the minister think the proposed changes will create? Graeme Dey: The member makes a good point about the nature of the landscape.”
“To ask the Scottish Government what consideration it has given to the potential impact on travel times in Mid Scotland and Fife of the proposed speed limit changes contained in the national speed management review consultation. (S6O-04311)”
“The First Minister: I assure Roz McCall that I have every intention, working closely with my minister Natalie Don-Innes, to provide all the necessary focus, leadership and impetus. In the programme for government that was published in September, the concept of whole family support was absolutely pivotal to the achievement of the Government’s highest priorities related to the eradication of child poverty. I want to make sure that the work that we undertake to improve the experience of care-experienced individuals is right at the heart of our agenda on eradicating child poverty and providing the best start in life for children and young people. I assure Roz McCall of the Government’s absolute determination to ensure that that is the case.”
“The whole family wellbeing fund has underspends right across the country. However, the oversight board’s report, published yesterday, was clear that the “Explicit leadership and drive from Scottish Government and scrutiny bodies to articulate a clear set of principles, outcomes and milestones” to ensure that the Promise is kept by 2030 has been severely lacking. The report included more than 10 critical shortcomings that needed urgent attention, including workforce shortages, financial instability for care leavers, inadequate focus, fragmented services, lack of co-ordination—the list goes on. Is it not the case that the Scottish Government simply lacks the courageous leadership needed to take the decisive actions to meet the Promise by 2030?”
“If that is taken away, the local children of that ever-growing town will be at a disadvantage, and that cannot be allowed to happen. 18:06”
“That is particularly concerning to me, and I urge Culture Perth and Kinross to ensure that the consultation process has been handled properly. The irony is not lost on me that the excellent Perth museum will host the final letter by Mary, Queen of Scots, which was written just a few hours prior to her death, to celebrate the centenary of the National Library of Scotland by the same Culture Perth and Kinross that is looking to close its rural libraries. For me, the most important point is that the closure of rural libraries discriminates against children who live in rural areas, which goes against the terms of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. The UNCRC states that every child has equal rights, including to information and culture. The library is the only publicly funded culture outlet in Auchterarder.”
“I was stopped on a couple of occasions by people who were in the library and wanted to highlight how important it is to the local area and to raise their concerns with me. A gentleman was set up to work using the wi-fi. I was delighted to meet, by chance, one of the diligent campaigners, Shirley Williams, who has worked to present Perth and Kinross Council with a petition with more than 7,000 names, which calls for the cut to be stopped. That inspiring group has highlighted that, in their opinion, the consultation process employed by Culture Perth and Kinross has been flawed and rushed. By the council’s own admission, the opening of Perth museum has been given priority, so everything is now being done at speed.”
“It holds events, book clubs and bookbug children’s reading groups, and people can even bring their dog. I think that we can agree that it is an excellent service. On top of that, the library is 200m down the lane from the back of the primary school. The primary school is on the campus with the community school of Auchterarder, so it would be easily accessible for homework clubs and after-school support. That suggestion has been put to Perth and Kinross Council, but keeping the library open and providing an after-school solution for working parents seems a stretch too far. At that visit, I had to queue to speak to the receptionist. There was a group sitting in the back area, which is often used for story time.”
“However, we are faced with a situation in which local authorities such as Perth and Kinross Council have been forced to pursue a path to close some rural libraries. I have been a councillor, so I understand the budgetary pressures that councils face with every budget cycle, but it does not have to be that way. For the rest of my contribution, I will focus on one rural library in particular, because I took the time to visit Auchterarder library to see for myself how much of an impact the closure would have. For members who do not know, Auchterarder library is the epitome of a rural library. It is small and well stocked, and it provides the community with books, puzzles, toilet facilities, free wi-fi, free access to digital newspapers and e-books, printing services and seating.”
“I, too, thank Mark Ruskell for securing the debate, and I echo his thanks to librarians and volunteers. Libraries deliver a range of benefits that make them key to Scottish Government priorities such as improving literacy, closing the attainment gap, tackling social isolation and closing the digital divide. The health and wellbeing offer from libraries alone is estimated to bring a cost saving to the national health service in Scotland of £3.2 million a year. With sustained investment, libraries have the potential to deliver transformational outcomes for the people of Scotland. I do not think that anyone here would dispute those assertions—in fact, I think that we all agree on that.”