Bill Kidd
Scottish National Party · Scotland
“I think that it is possible to do that, and that having a child-centred and trauma- informed manner is important. I therefore urge members to accept my amendment or to accept Roz McCall’s amendment 75. Amendment 77 defines child-centred legal advice and representation.”
“Section 18(2) distinguishes local authorities because, unlike most other referring bodies, they will usually have on-going involvement with the child and the family once a referral has been made.”
“The minister also concedes that the amendments would not do any harm, so I would still ask the Government to accept them, because they would clarify the situation and leave things in no doubt at all. Finally—the Deputy Presiding Officer will be glad to hear—I will speak to amendment 201.”
“However, in line with the UNCRC, recent reforms made by the Parliament, such as the Children (Scotland) Act 2020, have moved away from arbitrary presumptions or distinctions about a child’s capacity that are based purely on age.”
“Notwithstanding that point, I have confidence that the dedicated infants and babies workstream will bring about changes, given who is involved in it—although I fear that those changes might not be dissimilar to what is being articulated in the amendments.”
“There is no consensus on the term, which means that there is some difficulty with legislation that contains it. The amendment relates specifically to section 18, which says that local authorities must provide the child in question with information on the children’s hearings process, the availability of child advocacy services and child-ce…”
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“When there are concerns, committees might look at adding reporting or review provisions to bills, so that we as a Parliament can keep track of how powers are being used. When it comes to subordinate legislation, we know how frustrating it can be that we cannot amend it. That is a real concern, especially in relation to significant regulations that are made under framework powers. That is why we suggest that further work might be needed to explore whether some sort of “think again” power could help to address those concerns. We will flag that in our legacy report. The committee is generally content with how Henry VIII powers have been drafted in Scottish Government bills, and we are satisfied that the parliamentary procedures around them are appropriate.”
“Some good points have been made today about the idea that “just in case” powers—those that are included simply for flexibility down the line— probably do not meet the test of necessity. That is something that we should all reflect on. The committee has highlighted the importance of consultation and co-design before a bill is introduced. If a policy is not fully developed, that is not a reason to default to broad enabling powers. We should be aiming for detail, not deferring it. We have looked at how to improve the scrutiny not just of primary legislation but of the regulations and other instruments that follow from it. That includes recommending that broad powers should be backed up by proper justification in the delegated powers memorandum.”
“As we have set out, framework legislation is legislation whereby the bill sets out the broad principles but leaves a lot of the detail to be filled in later by ministers or others. There can be a case for that approach, in very limited circumstances. Flexibility is important—we all understand that. The committee is saying that, as a general rule, primary legislation should set out as much detail as possible up front, so that parliamentarians, stakeholders and the public can see clearly what is being proposed and engage with it properly. That is about openness and accountability. We believe that, when a framework approach is used, it is essential to provide a clear justification right at the start for why that is necessary in the particular context of a bill.”
“This afternoon’s discussions have been really interesting, and I hope that the committee’s report will prove useful for colleagues across and outwith the chamber as we continue to scrutinise legislation, particularly in relation to the increasing use of framework powers. We in the committee have been listening closely to what has been said today; we will take it away with us and reflect on how we can continue to support the Parliament in its role not just when a bill comes in but throughout the life cycle of legislation—including when subordinate legislation is made under these broader powers. One of the key points in the report is that, as has been mentioned, we are seeing more framework legislation than we did even a few years ago. In fact, that trend seems to be picking up pace.”
“Right—thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I thank the DPLR Committee’s excellent clerking team and the legal team. I also thank everyone who has taken part in what has been a really thoughtful and engaging debate. I am going to save everyone’s thigh and buttock muscles, because I am not taking any interventions—so do not even try. I thank the Minister for Parliamentary Business for his response to the committee’s report, and the Scottish Government for the constructive and collaborative way in which it has approached the matter with the committee. There is clearly a lot of common ground, which is always a good place to start from.”
“Yesterday, the highly thought of Glasgow Disability Alliance issued a stark warning that hundreds of thousands of disabled Scots could lose out from Westminster’s “brutal” welfare cuts. Last night, in this Parliament, Scottish Labour MSPs voted to support Westminster’s austerity cuts to disabled people’s benefits. Will the First Minister outline how his Government is supporting disabled people in my constituency and across Scotland against the backdrop of Labour’s accelerated Westminster austerity?”
“I am pleased that Liz Smith and the minister are working together to try to iron out any difficulties, because there is a lot that all children can benefit from. I finish by saying that Christina McKelvie was a great friend of mine, and I miss her. 16:44”
“I strongly support the broad aims of the Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill. The potential to provide transformative experiences for all children is significant, and we must ensure that the bill delivers its promise of equity and inclusivity. As the bill progresses, I urge members to continue to refine it by addressing the challenges of accessibility and support for vulnerable children so that we can ensure that no child is left behind. Outdoor education should not be a luxury—it should, I hope, be a right. It is a right that can help our young children to thrive, and we must work together to ensure that every child, regardless of their circumstances, has the opportunity to benefit from outdoor education experiences.”
“One of the fundamental rights in the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child is the right to play, to participate in recreational activities, and to enjoy good physical and mental health. Residential outdoor education embodies those rights and it allows children to engage with nature, learn new skills and build confidence, which is crucial for their wellbeing. It is important that the principles of the UNCRC are fully integrated in the bill. As we move forward, it would be valuable to see how the bill can ensure that all children, regardless of their background or the challenges that they face, have access to those transformative experiences. Clear steps need to be in place in order to ensure that children’s rights are fully realised through the bill and its implementation as it progresses.”
“That may include addressing financial barriers, ensuring that appropriate support is in place for children with additional needs, and making sure that experiences are inclusive of all children, regardless of their background or circumstances. As we look to the future of the bill, it is essential that we also acknowledge the practical challenges that would be involved in its implementation. Although the benefits of outdoor education are clear, local authorities must be supported to ensure that opportunities are accessible for all children, particularly those in rural areas or those with additional support needs. It is crucial that we address concerns about staffing, capacity, and funding to ensure that the bill can deliver on its promises, and we must work with local authorities to ensure that that can be achieved.”
“That aligns with the growing recognition of the need for holistic approaches to education that address both academic and wellbeing outcomes for students. Although the benefits of residential outdoor education are clear, we must also acknowledge the challenges to ensuring that all children, particularly those from disadvantaged backgrounds, are able to access those potentially life-changing opportunities. The committee raised concerns about how to ensure that there is equitable access to outdoor education opportunities, and I am hopeful that, as the bill progresses, we can work together to ensure that the most vulnerable children are not left behind.”
“Those experiences go far beyond academic learning and are crucial for young people’s personal development. The committee heard from multiple sources about the significant benefits of residential outdoor education. Time spent in nature has been shown to reduce anxiety, stress and symptoms of depression, while also improving mood and fostering a sense of wellbeing. Beyond the health benefits, those experiences help children to develop important life skills, such as communication, problem solving, teamwork and self-confidence. Moreover, we heard from teachers that outdoor education helps to improve engagement in the classroom, enhances social connections and provides children with the opportunity to step outside their comfort zones, build their independence and face challenges in a supportive, structured environment.”
“As a member of the Education, Children and Young People Committee, I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate. The bill represents an important step forward in the way in which we think about delivering education in Scotland, particularly when it comes to ensuring that every child has access to life-changing opportunities through residential outdoor education. As we have heard throughout the debate, the bill aims to provide consistent access to residential outdoor education for all children in Scotland—in particular, those who might otherwise face barriers to participation. The bill seeks to provide young people with experiences that help them to build resilience, develop leadership skills, foster independence, and enhance their mental and physical wellbeing.”
“Scotland has made a promise to be the best place in the world for children to grow up in. Today, the Parliament has the power to act—the power to uphold that promise—and I urge every MSP in the chamber to stand together, stand up for these children and let us be the Parliament that ends the criminal exploitation of children in Scotland. 13:05”
“There are children such as David, who was arrested for drug possession and labelled as a repeat offender, instead of being recognised as a victim. His family threatened his escape—it was impossible. However, thanks to the intervention of Action for Children, David found a way out, and he is now in college, working towards a future that he can finally call his own. His story is one of survival, but how many more like him are still trapped? First, we urgently need a legal definition of the criminal exploitation of children. Secondly, we must strengthen joint investigations between law enforcement and social services, because this is not just a policing issue—it is a child protection emergency. Thirdly, we need welfare first approaches, because these children are not criminals. They are victims, and we must treat them as such.”
“We are unsure of the true extent of the issue, and, if we do not know its scale, how can we hope to tackle it effectively? We must remember that these children are not making choices—they are being targeted. Exploiters seek out vulnerability—the children who are in poverty, the children in care and the children with additional needs. They offer false promises of money, security and belonging, then the trap is sprung. Debts, threats and violence become the new reality, a nightmare that they cannot wake from. We have heard of children being forced to carry drugs and weapons, steal, beg and even commit acts of violence under duress. We have heard of children too afraid to step outside their homes and children wearing extra layers in case they are stabbed. Imagine living like that—but it is the brutal reality of criminal exploitation.”
“Those children are victims, but I am afraid that, instead of receiving protection, they are too often treated as criminals, slipping through the cracks of the very system that is meant to safeguard them. Let us be clear: the criminal exploitation of children is child abuse. However, as we have heard, the lack of a clear definition often creates a vacuum. Without a legal framework, agencies struggle to identify victims early, and perpetrators slip through the net. It is clear that we need a legal definition of the criminal exploitation of children— and we need it now—to ensure that we can protect and safeguard some of the most vulnerable members of our society. As we know, it is estimated that more than 130,000 parents across the UK suspected that their child had been exploited, but the true figure is very likely to be higher.”
“I, too, thank Michael Matheson for bringing this important debate on the criminal exploitation of children to the chamber. Let us be clear: this is not some distant tragedy. It is already happening. In our towns, on our streets and even behind the closed doors in our communities, there are children, vulnerable, scared and alone, who are being coerced, manipulated and threatened into a life of crime by ruthless criminals who see them, not as young lives full of potential, but as disposable tools to be used. I thank Action for Children for its helpful briefing. The recent reports from Professor Alexis Jay and Action for Children lay bare the sheer scale of the appalling abuse that is taking place. The voices of those young people—haunted, fearful and yet so often ignored—tell us everything that we need to know.”
“What assessment has the Scottish Government made of the impact of the United Kingdom Government’s employer national insurance hike on the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service and other emergency services? Siobhian Brown: I have met the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service in recent weeks. The rise in national insurance for its staff is a huge concern, and I am looking at having on-going conversations with the service in that regard.”
“To ask the Scottish Government what steps it is taking to ensure that current and future legislative processes further embed the principles and aims of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (Incorporation) (Scotland) Act 2024. (S6O-04342)”
“I want to continue to ensure that children and young people feel empowered and included, and I want to ensure that we continue to reach as many young people as possible, including those who might not have engaged before. Bill Kidd, and all members, can be assured that that will continue to be a priority for me and a number of the organisations that have helped to facilitate many of those conversations so far.”
“What steps is the minister taking to ensure that children are empowered, involved and included in the current and future delivery of the Promise? Natalie Don-Innes: I have made it very clear that the voice of care-experienced children, young people and adults across Scotland is at the heart of the work that is under way and continues to drive the actions that we take. The Scottish Government continues to build that voice through the breadth of consultation and engagement that is undertaken at a national level, and I am grateful to organisations across Scotland that take the time and focus to link into that and lead engagement.”
“As the minister, I want to be assured that standards are high across all our in-patient units. That is why I have asked Healthcare Improvement Scotland and the Mental Welfare Commission to carry out a series of joint visits to all adolescent in-patient units in Scotland, as well as to the national child in-patient unit. HIS and the commission will use those visits to make recommendations on what is required to ensure the quality and safety of our child and adolescent mental health services in-patient units, both now and into the future.”
“Since I was made aware of the allegations in the programme, my officials have been in regular contact with NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde to seek assurances about current practice and governance. We have received answers to our questions, and we welcome the reviews that it is taking forward. I will monitor the outcome of those reviews closely and, as the board would expect, I will hold it to account. To that end, the cabinet secretary and I will meet NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde as soon as possible to seek direct assurance. We will also meet NHS Lothian and NHS Tayside, which host the other two adolescent units in Scotland. If you will indulge me, Deputy Presiding Officer, there is so much interest in the issue that I would like to say a little bit more.”
“The experiences of the brave young people who told their stories in the “Disclosure” programme must be taken seriously, and they should be commended for coming forward. What conversations are taking place among the Scottish Government, NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde and the Mental Welfare Commission for Scotland to ensure a thorough investigation of the incidents and to provide reassurance and closure to the young people and families affected? Maree Todd: As I have said, like everyone in the chamber, I was absolutely shocked at what I saw in the programme. It was a difficult watch, and I put on record my sincere thanks to the young people and their family members for having the courage to come forward.”
“The Government must continue to empower parents with the support and resources that they need, ensuring that the crucial first months and years are the nurturing foundation that every child requires to ensure that they continue to reach their full potential as they progress though life. I am sure that that is the direction that is being pursued. 16:08”
“It also recommends offering parental education, along with emotional and financial support, to reduce stress and empower parents to be the best that they can be. Those recommendations deserve further analysis and research to understand how they can become part of a holistic, overarching approach to addressing child poverty at every stage of a child’s development. I urge the cabinet secretary to consider the recommendations carefully in the future development of the Government’s strategy. Although we have made significant progress, it is clear that more work remains to be done to ensure that every child in Scotland receives the start in life that they deserve.”
“The uptake of the baby box has grown to around 98 per cent, with parents sharing how useful it is in saving them money on necessary items and providing things that they might not have thought of buying themselves. Those are welcome and successful initiatives, and I hope that the Scottish Government will commit to continuing to build on them in the context of children benefiting from free school meals. The briefing also makes a number of interesting recommendations, including “Increasing the Scottish Child Payment ... to £40 ... to relieve the pressures of poverty in households with young children” and providing ”additional, targeted income through one of the five family benefits to families with a baby under one”.”
“Try learning when your belly is empty, or being interested in books and learning to count when you are being brought up in a cold and damp house. We should not underestimate another point that is made in the briefing. It states: “with 1 in 3 families with a baby under one currently living in poverty in Scotland ... more must be done to increase incomes and provide wider access to holistic family support so that all children get the start in life they deserve.” In that regard, I highlight the success of the baby box that is offered as a welcome gift to all new babies in Scotland. The box provides essential items for the first six months of life.”
“The briefing makes it clear that, if we are to make a greater impact in addressing child poverty, we must engage with children from an even earlier age. It welcomes “efforts to increase family incomes like the introduction of the Scottish Child Payment (SCP), Best Start Grants and Best Start Foods”, and it states: “Parents tell us these make a big difference in being able to provide essential goods for their young children, as well as providing stimulating toys and experiences that boost development.” Save the Children also welcomes various funds from the Scottish Government, such as the child poverty practice accelerator fund, which helps local services deliver wraparound family-based support and early learning initiatives such as the bookbug programme.”
“The motion notes the report from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, which predicts that child poverty rates in Scotland will decline by 2029 while rates in the rest of the UK are on track to rise. Recent analysis estimates that the Scottish child payment and plans to scrap the two-child benefit limit will keep 100,000 children out of relative poverty in 2024- 25. That is a major driver of what is a welcome fall. It is therefore a wee bit disappointing that some other parties fail to acknowledge the significant progress that is being made in supporting children in Scotland. Of course, that is just politics. However, that is not to say that there is not still more to be done, because there is. I thank Save the Children for its briefing on the practical steps that can be taken to ensure that more is done.”
“We are already rolling out a new community glaucoma service, which provides capacity for lower-risk glaucoma patients to be discharged from hospital and registered instead with accredited community optometrists. We will also expand our free universal NHS eye examination service in 2025 to support independent prescribing community optometrists to manage patients who have more complex acute anterior eye conditions, who are currently normally referred to hospital.”
“I am grateful that, as the cabinet secretary said, the Scottish Government has committed to ensuring that everyone in Scotland—and children and young people, in particular—is entitled to receive free NHS eye tests to make sure that preventative care is offered to those who need it before their eyesight worsens. Can the cabinet secretary advise us on how the Government will build on Scotland’s world-leading eyecare service in the future? Neil Gray: The Government is committed to delivering new, enhanced services that utilise the capacity of community optometrists to manage more patients closer to home, reducing the burden on hospitals and general practitioners. We have made provision for that in the budget that we have set out for next year, which will be debated this afternoon.”
“Although we recognise that there is still work to be done, I am grateful for the opportunity to acknowledge the progress that is being made. It is a testament to the hard work that is being done by our teachers, schools, pupils and families, as well to as the investments and policies of the Government. Colleges Scotland (Budgets) 3.”
“The investments that the Scottish Government has made are clearly having an impact. With that in mind, what do the newest statistics, which were released in December, show about the level of literacy in Scotland’s schools? Jenny Gilruth: The curriculum for excellence levels that were published last year show some real improvement. They show record levels of achievement in literacy in Scotland’s primary and secondary schools, which I hope members across the Parliament will welcome. The statistics showed that 74 per cent of primary school pupils and 88 per cent of secondary school pupils achieved the expected curriculum for excellence levels for literacy—the highest figures on record. They also show that the poverty-related attainment gap in literacy is the lowest on record.”
“Therefore, should the Government be minded to produce an update on how the actions are being taken forward, as is called for in Mr Briggs’s motion, I ask it to please ensure that UNCRC article 12—which states that, when adults are making decisions that affect children, they should ask the children what they think—takes centre stage. 15:25”
“That shift towards a more inclusive and respectful environment is essential for creating a school culture in which both students and teachers can thrive and in which learning is not only safe but meaningful and effective. Indeed, one of the main points to come out of the recent discussion on the Education (Scotland) Bill at stage 1 was the very issue of ensuring that safety is central to any educational reform, including, I hope, the implementation of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. In conclusion, if we are to build an environment that is safe for pupils and teachers, we need to involve those who will be using that environment.”
“They are the ones who experience daily disruption in the classroom, and it is their input that will guide us in creating the safest and most conducive learning environment for both students and teachers. By involving pupils in the process of shaping their educational experiences, we empower them to become co-creators of their learning journey. That approach not only fosters greater engagement but challenges the traditional power dynamics that often leave students’ needs and views overlooked. Liam Kerr: Will the member take an intervention? Bill Kidd: No, thanks. There is no time. When pupils feel that their opinions are valued and taken seriously, they are more likely to feel respected and, as a result, less inclined to act out in the classroom.”
“The action plan states: “The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (Incorporation) (Scotland) Act 2024 places duties on public authorities which include taking into account the views of the child or young person. Therefore, children and young people should play an integral role in shaping the local policies on relationships and behaviour that will affect them.” That crucial point could be more prominent both in the debate today and in our overall discussions about education and children’s participation in it. Although working alongside organisations such as Education Scotland and local authorities is important for implementing the action plan, we should genuinely listen to the pupils themselves.”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak in this important debate. I know that we all agree that having a safe place for our young people to learn in and for our teachers to teach in is central to having a successful educational system. I see, from the various amendments to the motion, that we also share the same concerns over reported cases of violence against pupils and staff as well as disruption in schools. Violence and abusive behaviour in schools is completely unacceptable. I also welcome the publication of the joint national action plan with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, which is mentioned in the amendments and which sets out the actions that will be taken over the next three years in response to the “Behaviour in Scottish schools 2023” research.”
“I updated the cross-party group on changing places toilets on 14 November, when I sought initial views on the fund criteria. I would like to continue that engagement and to learn lessons from similar funding schemes. We are able to learn a great deal from what has happened in England. It is clear that the fund will need to be flexible enough to take account of different local circumstances across”
“Changing places toilets make a real difference to disabled people and their families, and we would all like to see further provision of them. Will the minister outline a wee bit more about how the Scottish Government will ensure that the CPT fund is designed to meet the needs of those who need it most? Maree Todd: I recognise the level of cross-party interest and support for changing places toilets. During the debate on 11 December, members from every party, including Stephen Kerr, Stuart McMillan and Paul O’Kane, all committed their support for more provision of the facilities. We are working closely with PAMIS to develop the fund so that it takes account of users’ needs. PAMIS has significant technical expertise and experience of supporting local projects across Scotland.”
“To ask the Scottish Government whether it prioritised funding for its mission to tackle child poverty when drafting its budget for 2025-2026. (S6O-04199)”
“As we look to our future, the past shows us the invaluable contributions that migrants have made in shaping the Scotland that we live in now—a vibrant, diverse Scotland that is laced together through shared values of inclusiveness, empathy and understanding. It also shows us the present need for change. Scotland needs the opportunity to develop a migration system that reflects not only those values but needs and challenges specific to ensuring that we can all continue to flourish together. Today, we can come together to ensure that that happens. I urge members to do just that, and to support the motion to build a migration system that supports Scotland’s economy, public services and communities. 15:43”
“We all remember the seven young women from Glasgow who, while attending Drumchapel high school in my constituency, formed the Glasgow girls in response to the Home Office detention of one of their friends. They became unlikely heroes in the fight for justice and equality for asylum seekers, and went on to win the Scottish campaign of the year award at the annual Scottish politician of the year ceremony in 2005. The Glasgow girls ultimately succeeded in halting the deportation of their friend, and their victory sparked a broader movement for immigration reform, which led to changes in the Scottish legal system. Their story shows us that, sometimes, the system needs to be changed and, sometimes, we can change it.”
“He said at the time: “It isn’t important where you come from, what matters is where we are going together as a nation.” Those are words that I echo here today. In his time in the Parliament, Bashir led the bill to make forced marriage a criminal offence in Scotland and participated in the humanitarian campaign for Scottish hospitals to treat the most serious casualties of Israel’s attacks on the Gaza strip—how history, sadly, repeats itself. More recently, we have seen an increase in people fleeing persecution and wars, such as the war in Ukraine, and we have welcomed them here with understanding and compassion. Scots have proudly stood up for those people’s rights in the face of an immigration system that, sadly, has all too often let them down.”
“They brought, among other things, Guinness, legendary ice cream parlours such as Luca’s in Edinburgh and Nardini’s in Largs, and world-renowned musicians such as Lewis Capaldi and Paolo Nutini, who are Scottish through and through. Communities from across the world continue to come to Scotland and make it their home. After Indian independence in 1947, many south Asians came to the UK, with a large number settling in Scotland and working at the mills in Dundee and on the buses and trains in Glasgow. They include the late Bashir Ahmad, whom I am sure we all remember fondly. Bashir founded Scots Asians for Independence in 1995 and went on to sit in this Parliament, becoming the first non-white and first Muslim MSP.”
“Migration is a powerful force that not only enriches culture but strengthens economies and fosters more resilient, dynamic societies. Over time, migrant communities in Scotland have contributed to our cultural richness through new languages, cuisines, art and music, enhancing our multicultural fabric. Additionally, migration plays a crucial role in addressing Scotland’s ageing population by injecting a younger workforce that supports essential services such as healthcare and social care—critical components for sustaining a thriving society. Historically, people have been arriving in Scotland for more than 12,000 years, including— much more recently, towards the end of the 19th century—many Irish and Italian migrants who came to Scotland to escape dire poverty and famine in their countries of origin.”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak in today’s debate. This is my first contribution of the year, so I also welcome the opportunity to wish everyone, not only in Parliament but across Scotland, a very happy new year. Today’s debate is apt, because at new year, Scotland is renowned across the world for our celebrations and the warm welcome with open arms that we find. As I am sure many members do, I have fond memories of first footing the folk on our street—always finding an open door with that welcome and those open arms. For centuries, Scotland has welcomed those who have migrated to these shores and those who, contrary to what some may say, find Scotland an attractive place to put down family roots. Those roots have grown and blossomed, enriching our society in the process.”