Brian Whittle
Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party · Scotland
“As Jamie Halcro Johnston said, roads, rail networks and ferries—we keep coming back to ferries—are key to keeping those communities where they are and stopping migration away from them. The chamber will welcome the fact that this— eventually—is my last speech in this parliamentary session.”
“Speaking as somebody who got his first mobile phone—a brick of a thing—at the age of 32, I find that quite astonishing. It is important that pupils have the opportunity to put their phones down in school, but also important is what happens outside school.”
“As always, I want to introduce a slightly different approach to the subject and so I will talk about how we should develop health policy. We must start from the position that services should be available to our communities no matter where they are, whether they are urban, rural or on islands.”
“It is interesting that the girls attitudes survey carried out by Girlguiding UK in 2025 found that girls are restricting their online activity in order to protect themselves, with more than a third of respondents reporting that they avoid using certain apps and platforms in order to protect themselves.”
“It is a pleasure to follow Beatrice Wishart, who, as we all know, has been a real champion for her communities in the time that she has spent here.”
“That was an interesting question from Mr Harvie, as the Scottish Greens have spent the majority of this session of Parliament demonising our farmers and food producers.”
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“It is important that we support those efforts and do not just assume that clubs will foot the bill, despite the fact that such interactions are very positive for football clubs. The bonds that football clubs have with their respective communities deliver for the long-term future of the clubs and their supporters. We need to look at how we can build on that relationship for the health and future of communities. Members will not be surprised to hear me advocate for the role of sport in general in our society. I do not think that we give the value to sport and physical activity that they deserve, which I have said that many times. Physical activity is a cornerstone of good health, and we need to consider how we do more to encourage it, given our poor health record in Scotland.”
“I am associated with what I would class as proper sport, but I know that the motion points to the crucial role that football and football clubs play in our wider communities. Many supporters are being encouraged to participate in exercise and weight loss programmes that are organised by clubs. I have also visited mental health groups in football clubs, which are run by Kilmarnock, Ayr, St Mirren, Hearts and Hibs, to name but a few. Many participants would not access similar help from statutory services. Football clubs provide an environment in which supporters feel comfortable. They walk in the same paths as their heroes and heroines, who they watch week in and week out. Football clubs are central to many community activities, beyond just people watching club games.”
“My football career after that was tragically cut short through a severe lack of talent. Christine Grahame: Were both your football boots on during that time? [Laughter.] The Deputy Presiding Officer: Members should always speak through the chair. Brian Whittle: There was no need for that. There may be a point of order later, Deputy Presiding Officer. [Laughter.] I thank Douglas Ross for raising what I otherwise would have forgotten to: what participation is all about. It is not just about being active in sport. You can also be a coach—I still am. I book-end my week in the Parliament with coaching as a level 4 coach. I have been a senior coach for longer than I was an athlete, which is a scary thought. Our officials and administrators keep our sports going and also participate in sport.”
“Are we sitting comfortably with this extra half hour? I thank George Adam for bringing the debate to the chamber. It seems a bit of a regular occurrence that Mr Adam and I extol the virtues of football in the chamber. I will start by declaring an interest: I have coached at Ayr United, at George Adam’s beloved St Mirren and at Kilmarnock. I can even claim to have played for Ayr United’s first team. It was pre- season, and was for 45 minutes after half time. I can remember the dulcet tones of the then manager, Gordon Dalziel, as he shouted across, “Whittle, get your shinnies on, we’ve run out of players.” My contribution was well summed up in the Ayrshire Post report, which said that I ran about a lot and drank a lot of water; however, they still talk about my mazy run to this day.”
“That includes people with additional needs, who will find colleges a less threatening environment in which to take part in some employability and skills programmes. I am excited to see how those programmes develop with the college sector and how they will help us to support people back into employment.”
“According to an Economy and Fair Work Committee investigation, Scotland has the highest level of disability unemployment in the UK. Would it not be prudent to tackle that issue by helping those who can and want to work back into work? That is surely the way to reduce the social security bill. Shona Robison: I hoped that Brian Whittle might have welcomed the summer of sport—I know that that is an area of interest for him and that he has asked questions about it previously— but I am sure that he will do so in due course. On the issue that Brian Whittle raised, we have safeguarded £90 million of funding for employability services, but we will go further than that through the work that we will do with colleges. We were really impressed with the proposals that Colleges Scotland set out on how to support people back into work.”
“I apologise to the Presiding Officer and to the chamber for my late arrival. Despite the fact that I have been here for 10 years with a start time of 25 past 2, I had it today as 35 past 2. I promise to do better next term. To ask the Scottish Government whether it has made any assessment of recent prison inspection findings on the use of restricted regimes and their impact on prisoners’ welfare and safety. (S6O- 05335)”
“Give our children universal access to free swimming lessons, give our communities that access to continue the positive relationship with the water, and let us make sure that no one is excluded just because they were never given the opportunity. 17:10”
“It is about inclusion and the opportunity to be physically active in a fun environment. That is why I was so passionate about supporting Liz Smith’s Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill and was delighted that we forced it through. From the open-air pool in Troon, Ayr baths and the Time Capsule in Coatbridge to every water park on holidays, show me a child who does not love the water. The Government says that it is committed to tackling inequality, yet the chances of being able to swim and to go with friends to the swimming pool is dictated by whether someone lives in a council area that is fully committed to free school swimming lessons or in a more deprived area. It is a classic postcode lottery. Swimming is a lifelong skill, and we should not even have to debate its importance.”
“Physical literacy has no priority for this Government, despite many studies showing the positive influence that physical literacy plays in all aspects of education. The Government needs to tackle the resulting poor physical and mental health. A poster on my office wall says that food is the most abused anxiety drug and exercise is the most underutilised antidepressant. At a time when we are increasingly concerned about the physical and mental wellbeing of our communities, one of the main ways to positively tackle those issues is being squeezed by the Scottish Government. The cost of those cuts will be borne in the need to increase the health and education portfolio budgets. The SNP might talk about prevention, but the cuts demonstrate that it understands little of what prevention actually means.”
“That is what we are talking about. Swimming might be an essential life skill, but it is also a fantastic physical activity. It is great fun, as is water aerobics for an older person—keeping fit in a non-weight-bearing environment. Children should be confident enough to fling themselves down waterslides at water parks. I did all that with my daughters. I still have an excuse to participate because I have grandsons, and I am still a big kid at heart. I am forever extolling the virtues of giving our children access to physical activity, and I lament the consistent decline in those opportunities for our children, despite what the Scottish Government might claim. School sport is a shadow of what it once was.”
“Then there were the swimming lessons at Troon primary school, which meant the adventure of jumping on the coach with my classmates and heading into Ayr—those were good days at school. Then there was going to the Magnum leisure centre in Irvine with my friends and hurtling down the waterslides. We were included, rather than excluded. Being able to participate is incredibly important. Swimming is not like most activities or sports in that you can participate in most sports no matter your level—you can give it a go. With swimming, you either can or you cannot. If you cannot, water becomes a danger and you are excluded. My dad taught me to swim. On Thursdays after school, mum, dad and my brother were off to the baths. There was fish and chips on the way home. It was family time that I remember fondly more than five decades later.”
“I remember all too well going along with my friends to the open-air pool in Troon. When I say “open”, I mean that in every sense of the word, given that the water was pumped directly into the pool from the sea, sand and all. Apparently, it was heated, but I am pretty sure that I caught a glimpse of the Titanic at the bottom of the deep end, because I remember constantly chittering away as we jumped off the diving boards and ran back up the stairs for another go. Then came the luxury of Ayr swimming pool, which was indoors, no less, with proper diving boards. My friends and I, who were probably aged around 10 or 11, would jump on to the bus in Troon on a Saturday and head for Ayr pool.”
“To ask the Scottish Government what consideration it has given to the role of the third sector in ensuring the sustainability of the national health service. (S6O-05302)”
“I urge members to support Liz Smith’s bill. 17:30”
“It is time to give back to our educators the full suite of tools for teaching, to allow them to deliver all that they can and are more than willing to deliver. In our education system, we are trying to tackle poor physical and mental health, poor attainment and poor behaviour. A narrow, compliant learning experience, devoid of a space for creative thinking and of a place to try, fail and try again, is a learning environment in which many pupils will struggle to be the best that they can be. Moreover, the chances of full pupil engagement are unlikely. Outdoor education is an adventure and, goodness me, our young people need some adventure. It is a learning environment in which they do not even realise that they are learning. It is a world of possibilities. It is an opportunity that all our pupils deserve.”
“It is ever more apparent that the elements of our education system that support expression—the alternative routes to achievement and the things that help to build resilience, confidence and a drive to aspire—are being squeezed out of our education system. Sport, art, music, drama and outdoor education create an alternative learning environment that will allow some pupils to thrive and flourish in a way that they might struggle to achieve in a traditional classroom. Those lessons outside the classroom are so important to delivering and achieving in the classroom. It is time to stop forcing our young people down an ever narrowing education tunnel that fits a decreasing number of pupils.”
“To me, the epitome of what my friend and colleague Liz Smith’s outdoor education bill is about is that it gives every pupil the opportunity of an alternative learning experience, because what initially sparks the fire in them will be different for every pupil. Teachers know how to teach. Build a raft or paddle a canoe—what a fantastic way to introduce physics and the Archimedes’ principle. How about flying down a zipline to introduce and discuss gravity? While pushing the creative element and taking a leap of faith, pupils approach new challenges that they might never have even considered but now have to solve. Give pupils an obstacle to overcome, let them work together to find the solution as a team and give them that lifelong, shared experience that I have often spoken about. I would call that, in sporting parlance, deductive coaching.”
“However, I fear that we have been forcing our teachers to follow a set path that squeezes the alternative routes to learning and is increasingly devoid of creativity, ensuring an approach of compliance and standardisation. What is a standard child? Everybody learns in a different way. The art of teaching—and it is an art—is in developing different learning approaches that include all pupils. Teachers are brilliant, if given the tools and the opportunity, due to their ability to excite the power of imagination and curiosity—the power of what could be—and to engender creativity. We all know that feeling, at least until society gets the opportunity to stick its oar in and stifle blue-sky thinking and imagination, talking about what we cannot do instead of what is possible.”
“I am delighted to stand in support of my colleague and friend Liz Smith’s Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill. Sometimes, we lose sight of what we mean by “education” and what we are trying to achieve through it. It is too easy for us in Parliament to get wrapped up in exam results. Increasingly, we seem to be less involved in teaching and learning and, increasingly, we push testing. Standardised testing is important, of course, but it should not be the dominant culture in education. Testing should be a diagnostic and a help. Tests are there to support learning, not to obstruct it. The role of a teacher is to facilitate learning, and our teachers are experts in that—it is the fire that compelled them down the educator pathway.”
“Motion agreed to, That the Parliament, for the purposes of any Act of the Scottish Parliament resulting from the Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill, agrees to any expenditure of a kind referred to in Rule 9.12.3A of the Parliament’s Standing Orders arising in consequence of the Act. The Presiding Officer: That concludes decision time. Meeting closed at 17:01. Correction Gillian Martin has identified an error in her contribution and provided the following correction.”
“On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I am sorry, but I could not connect. I would have voted no. The Presiding Officer: Thank you, Mr Whittle. We will ensure that your vote is recorded. For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Ross Greer] Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Fulton MacGregor] Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) Against Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Ind) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division on motion S6M-20099, in the name of Shona Robison, on a financial resolution for the Children (Withdrawal from Religious Duty and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill, is: For 79, Against 27, Abstentions 0.”
“I also suggest that the continued decline in opportunities to be active in the school environment and in our communities might be a contributing factor to the exponential and unprecedented rise in the number of people who are requesting ADHD assessments. I consider those numbers to have always been there, under the surface. However, I wonder whether, as part of prevention and, as Daniel Johnson put it, the non-medicalisation of the condition, many people with neurodivergent conditions would benefit from a reversal of the decline in opportunities to channel their hyperactivity. Again, I thank Daniel Johnson for bringing the debate to the Parliament. 13:21”
“One ended up not being able to control his eating and being unable to get out of the house to take part in activities. He ended up putting on so much weight that he never got back to training— and he was an international athlete. Having access to activity, a pathway to self- expression and a route to channel their energy can be so important for some people who have neurodevelopmental conditions, because it can help to provide balance. I spoke to the Royal Society of Psychiatrists and some autism representatives in the third sector to see whether there was any agreement on the points that I am exploring. Thankfully, there was agreement. I take every opportunity to highlight the importance of sport and activity to the nation’s wellbeing. I suggest that, in these instances, they can be even more important.”
“Daniel Johnson: As I often say to people, beyond medication, the other critical factors are good sleep, hygiene and exercise. I emphasise that access to sport is critical in helping people to manage ADHD. Brian Whittle: I thank Daniel Johnson for finishing my speech for me. [Laughter.] I was going to say that I witnessed young people flourishing and developing in a training environment that delivered structure and self- discipline in their lives. It was great to see, and one of them even ended up doing a college course on health and fitness. More telling is what happened to those athletes during Covid, when they were starved of that structure in their lives. Without that framework and focus, there was a significant slide, which was much worse than that for the other athletes in the squad.”
“I will not rehearse all the important issues that Mr Johnson spoke about so well, but the one that worries me the most, which has reared its head again, is the lack of coherent and consistent data collection. As I have said many times, our health service lacks a universal system that allows data collection. In one way or another, we will have to address that across the health service in general, because such a tool would be a huge help in tackling issues. I also want to highlight prevention, which is one of my favourite topics. I have some limited experience of coaching athletes with autism and fetal alcohol spectrum disorder, and what I have witnessed— Daniel Johnson: Will Brian Whittle take a brief intervention? Brian Whittle: I will.”
“I thank my friend and colleague Daniel Johnson for bringing the debate to the chamber. I applaud his continuing drive to deliver a better pathway for those with neurodevelopmental conditions, and I applaud him for using his own experience to highlight the subject. I also thank the Royal College of Psychiatrists in Scotland for its comprehensive report on multisystem solutions for people with ADHD and autism. Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder involves differences in attention, impulsivity and hyperactivity. Mr Johnson gave a comprehensive overview of the system’s failings and the dire need to deliver support and a national strategy for the hugely increasing number of people who are seeking assessment and support for neurodevelopmental conditions, given all the negative impacts that are associated with lack of support.”
“I ask the Minister for Drugs and Alcohol Policy and Sport if she will tell us, in her closing remarks, how we will ensure that there is a legacy from those fantastic events. Once again, I congratulate my friend and colleague Keith Brown on bringing the debate to the chamber. 18:19”
“However, 1978 gave us one of the best goals that we will ever see: Archie Gemmill’s goal against Holland. Again, Scotland gave us hope— that glimmer of hope—but they never quite get there. I remember 1982, 1986 and 1998—and, now, here we are again, on our way to lift the world cup. I just want to say, on a serious note, that we have a fantastic summer of sport coming our way with the Commonwealth games and the world cup. I hope that we do not just grasp the opportunity to be Scotland, the passionate watchers of football, but use it to create opportunities for our youngsters, who are inspired to take part by our great athletes and footballers. We have to use these fantastic experiences to give our kids those opportunities.”
“I got to play golf with Peter Lorimer in Montrose one day—what a gentleman he was. I always remember 1974—as has been said, we came out as the only undefeated team. I always picture, in my head, Billy Bremner sliding in at the back post and knocking the ball against the post, when we could have actually won. I also remember when we had to beat Yugoslavia. They went 1-0 up, and then Scotland gave us hope—as they always do—towards the end of the match when they equalised, but we did not go through. With Ally’s army, in 1978, we were going to win the world cup. He convinced the whole of Scotland, me included, that we were going to win. I remember Joe Jordan scoring for us to go 1-0 up against Peru, and then they equalised. Don Masson missed a penalty and they went 2-1 up, with Scotland eventually losing 3-1.”
“The fact that the four of us were jumping about crazy in the Parliament bar—four people who members might not expect to be together—and the way in which we collectively celebrated the result tells us everything about football and about sport. The other reason why I wanted to speak in the debate was that I knew that George Adam would be speaking, and I wanted to remind him that a Scottish Tory was his childhood hero and that a Scottish Tory also coached his beloved St Mirren. I am taking some of the glory for St Mirren—that strangled route through St Mirren into the Scotland team. Those of us who are of a certain vintage reflect back on a time when we always qualified for the world cup. The first world cup that I remember as a kid was in 1974, with Billy Bremner, Peter Lorimer and so on.”
“Are we sitting comfortably, Deputy Presiding Officer? I congratulate Keith Brown on getting out of the traps early in lodging the motion and securing the debate. I was going to come along tonight just to listen to the debate, and then I decided, why not bask one more time in the reflected glory of the Scotland team qualifying for the world cup? As I have said previously in the chamber— unfortunately, the member in question has just left the chamber—I watched the match in the Parliament bar, as we had all just piled out of a committee meeting, with Stuart McMillan, Liam McArthur and the indomitable, the indefatigable, the inimitable and the inflatable Kenny Gibson, who went from the mild-mannered gentleman we all know and love to a complete maniac.”
“I am embarrassed to tread on what the minister has just said, but I tried to get his attention earlier to make a declaration of interest that I am a veteran. I should have done that before I made my speech, so I apologise for doing it now, but I failed to do it earlier.”
“I again thank members for their contributions and reiterate the importance of this Parliament having the opportunity to scrutinise our support for veterans, their families and the entire armed forces community in Scotland. I will make one final point to close what will be my last such debate as veterans minister. Throughout my tenure in this Parliament, these debates have overwhelmingly been free of party politicking, reflecting our shared commitment to doing the very best by our serving and veterans’ communities and their families. It is my hope that that approach and level of commitment will also come to characterise the next session and beyond. Edward Mountain: On a point of order, Presiding Officer.”
“Finally, it will surprise no one to hear me say that resources are tight at the moment for everyone who is working in the veterans’ space, and I do not see that changing overnight. The question therefore becomes, how do we make the most of the resources that we have? For me, the best answer to that is through even greater collaboration. The progress that we have made has been possible only through effective teamworking with dedicated partners from the public, private and third sectors. The Government will do all that it can to ensure that that continues, not least with the roll-out of the veterans’ mental health pathway and the progression of the veterans’ homelessness prevention pathway, neither of which can be achieved without collaboration.”
“I could point out to her that this is a UK-wide problem; it is not just in Scotland. That is not to deflect—rather it is to lead on to the point that, to that end, the three Governments are working collaboratively to look at the options that are there to tackle the issue. Some of the actions that are being considered include developing a national policy for managing waiting list transfers for armed forces personnel across NHS boards and exploring the adaptation of the South Wales fast-track model to support urgent or specialist care for small numbers of MOD patients. The MOD has also proposed the establishment of a UK-wide working group, in collaboration with NHS England and NHS Wales, to facilitate cross-border referral. I can therefore give Jackie Baillie the assurance that there is work going on in that space.”
“Graeme Dey: The health secretary is doing work in that space, but I would also gently point out that the actual recognition scheme is an aid for GPs to support that cohort of patients. Alex Rowley referenced the role of armed forces champions in the network, particularly in relation to local authorities. We are putting together a meeting through the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities with the champions network next week. I hope to have the commissioner and a representative of the families federation attending that with me, so that we can explore what more is actually needed by veterans’ families, for example, and what can be done by our local authorities to support veterans and their families. Jackie Baillie focused on the issue of waiting times for serving personnel, which has become pertinent over the past few months.”
“However, I explained earlier that there has been a bit of a tension in the way in which the information has flowed or not flowed about the detail of availability, the criteria and the deadline. There is a bit of work to be done between the two Governments—I hope that the UK Government will be receptive to that—to allow our organisations, be they in the public sector or the third sector, to engage in the scheme. Sandesh Gulhane: I will, of course, ask every GP to get involved with a scheme as worthy as that one, but does the minister accept that everyone wants GPs to know about their particular issues? That goes for every group that comes into this Parliament. There is a limited amount of time and GPs are under severe pressure. Perhaps we can, working together, give them the time that they need to do things as worthy as that.”
“Although the Government will do its bit to encourage take-up, I ask Dr Gulhane to encourage his colleagues in the city of Glasgow to engage with the scheme as much as possible, because it is incredibly important. Paul Sweeney: I was just reflecting on the minister’s intervention on my opening speech about greater collaboration. I note that the funding deadline for the initial tranche of Valour grants is 14 January, with a total of £27 million of funding and grants of up to £1 million being available. Will the minister write to the health and social care partnerships in Scotland to advise them of the scheme and perhaps invite them to apply? It could help with veterans’ GPs. Graeme Dey: I am happy to have a conversation on that point with the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, who is sitting next to me.”
“The Government has before it a report from Veterans Scotland that suggests ways in which we could look to address that, and I am actively looking at that with colleagues in Government, particularly education and skills colleagues. Sandesh Gulhane criticised the delays in the mental health pathways. I accept that it has taken too long to get to the point that we are currently at. There were reasons for that, but I will not go into them in detail now. However, I hope that, in turn, he will recognise that, in asking for us all to work together, as he did, that must include those who can lead, including his GP colleagues. I do not entirely accept that workload explains the very disappointing uptake of the recognition scheme.”
“Paul Sweeney and others focused on the issue that the commissioner highlighted in her report to do with the need for more formalised approaches in the employment space. I say to him that Social Security Scotland and the Scottish Government have done some good work in that space, but, of course, there is more that we can do, and I accept the commissioner’s criticism that there is now a bit of a void there. Members will possibly remember that a decision was taken in the summer of 2024, after consultation with the veterans employability strategic group, to close that group, because it was not actually delivering in the way that we had hoped it would. At that time, there were two distinct groups—there was that group and one that was run by Veterans Scotland. I recognise that there is now a gap there that needs to be addressed.”
“She also highlighted the long-running issue about the service pupil premium. As she knows, she and I are not necessarily on the same page about that. However, I draw her attention to the work of the Scottish armed forces education support group, which works collaboratively to mitigate and address any issues that affect service children in a way that helps to improve the experience of those children and their families in Scottish schools. In addition, the Government has funded the role of the national education and transitions officer since 2022. Martin Whitfield has highlighted the issue in Parliament a number of times, and we recognise that there are issues that affect young members of serving families, not just in education but in health as well.”
“I thank the Scottish Government for bringing the debate to the chamber and allowing us once more to talk about the debt of gratitude that we owe to our armed forces. The Deputy Presiding Officer: I call the minister, Graeme Dey, to respond to the debate. 17:25 Graeme Dey: I thank members for their contributions to the debate. I will attempt to respond to them as much as possible in the time that I have. I thank Edward Mountain for lodging his amendment. There is a shortage of available habitable married quarter accommodation in Scotland, and I am more than happy to raise the proposal with MOD ministers in the context of their new defence housing strategy. I will take away Beatrice Wishart’s ask on the gathering of data on veteran-led businesses. She made an interesting point about that.”
“One day, they are part of a close-knit team, used to working closely as a unit, having each other’s back and knowing exactly what they will be doing and where they will be walking. The next, they walk through the gates into civvy street, without those tight bonds and frameworks, and where the rules are very different. There will be a period of adaptation, which will never be complete because the majority will still feel most at ease when with their old team. I am the same with my old team mates. That is why we old athletes still get together as often as possible and why armed forces veterans keep in touch. When we are planning support services for our veterans, that situation needs to be at the forefront of our thoughts, even if we might not all quite understand where they are coming from.”
“Obvious issues such as post-traumatic stress disorder have been accepted much more readily, but we need to consider the issue of dealing with a significant change in circumstance. We often see stress in profound change—in how we define ourselves and how those definitions change. Such changes include retirement, for example. Having worked all our lives and been defined by what we do in our working environment, we walk away with the proverbial carriage clock and a handshake. If I may be so bold, they also include being an international sportsperson one day and an ex- athlete the next. We go from knowing exactly what the day is going to look like, what is expected of us and who we will be working with to being cut loose and having to imagine a different path. No more acutely will that be felt than by our veterans.”
“People are choosing to serve between 10 and 20 years but still have many working-age years in which to fulfil their civilian careers if they are appropriately supported. Edward Mountain focused on housing. He also highlighted the fact that our armed forces have fantastic transferable skills, as was mentioned by Beatrice Wishart. We should encourage veterans into Scotland, but that will require an increase in housing stock, as was mentioned. Armed forces retirees’ access to unused marital quarters was highlighted by Edward Mountain, and I welcome the fact that the minister was warm to that suggestion. I have spoken before about the need to recognise the mental stress that we should be cognisant of when dealing with our veterans.”
“Paul Sweeney: That was an important point about housing, which is critical not just to veterans but to sustaining people in service who might otherwise leave. The record investment of £9 billion in modernising more than 40,000 houses over the next decade could be a massive opportunity for the Scottish Government to engage in supercharging that around Scottish garrisons. Brian Whittle: I thank Paul Sweeney for his intervention and for his foresight in knowing what was coming in my speech. In 2022, statistics from the Ministry of Defence showed that the average age at which people joined the regular armed forces was around 20, and the average age at which they left was around 31.”
“Many of the matters that we are talking about are devolved, which is why I welcome the Scottish Government’s commitment to the armed forces covenant, although I have to say that I am a little dismayed that there have been no specific meetings at this stage to discuss the expansion of that covenant into social care with health and social care partnerships and councils, according to the reply to a parliamentary question that I asked a few weeks ago. Given the role that adequate social care plays in making sure that people can live their best independent lives, as was highlighted by my colleague Sandesh Gulhane, and the issues of homelessness that my colleague Edward Mountain has raised, there is more to do.”
“I was very interested to hear the contribution of the Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans, Graeme Dey, in which he highlighted the wait for care for servicemen and women and talked about the outcomes from those delays. I welcome his frustration that GP uptake of the armed forces and veterans recognition scheme is unacceptably low, and I welcome what he is doing to promote that scheme and formally accredit it to improve uptake.”
“As others have done, I record the huge debt of gratitude that we owe to our armed forces. Those who serve want simple things. While they are serving, they want to know that their families are taken care of, that they are provided with good-quality housing, that their children will not lose their place on an NHS waiting list or their support at school due to a relocation, that there is a job opportunity for their partner and that adequate childcare is available at a new posting. After their service concludes, they want to know that their mental and physical health will be taken care of and that support is available to adjust socially.”