Brian Whittle
Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party · Scotland
“As Jamie Halcro Johnston said, roads, rail networks and ferries—we keep coming back to ferries—are key to keeping those communities where they are and stopping migration away from them. The chamber will welcome the fact that this— eventually—is my last speech in this parliamentary session.”
“Speaking as somebody who got his first mobile phone—a brick of a thing—at the age of 32, I find that quite astonishing. It is important that pupils have the opportunity to put their phones down in school, but also important is what happens outside school.”
“As always, I want to introduce a slightly different approach to the subject and so I will talk about how we should develop health policy. We must start from the position that services should be available to our communities no matter where they are, whether they are urban, rural or on islands.”
“It is interesting that the girls attitudes survey carried out by Girlguiding UK in 2025 found that girls are restricting their online activity in order to protect themselves, with more than a third of respondents reporting that they avoid using certain apps and platforms in order to protect themselves.”
“It is a pleasure to follow Beatrice Wishart, who, as we all know, has been a real champion for her communities in the time that she has spent here.”
“That was an interesting question from Mr Harvie, as the Scottish Greens have spent the majority of this session of Parliament demonising our farmers and food producers.”
The complete record
Every one of 750 lines we hold for Brian Whittle, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 9 of 15.
“Douglas Lumsden may be mystified, but the law is clear on the process; I have set that out clearly. No other UK nation has to bring forward a climate change plan in draft at the same time as it brings forward its regulations. The timing has been set out to the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee, alongside the carbon budgets. It is a shame that members of other parties want to be associated with the rhetoric from Douglas Lumsden. I know that those parties have very different policy messages, but if those members vote alongside the Conservatives, I will find that quite disappointing, to be honest. Patrick Harvie says that a plan must match the carbon budgets. The Climate Change Committee has made it clear to me and to others that it does not dictate the policies that we would use—that is up to Parliaments and Governments to decide.”
“I had hoped that my intelligence on, and my thoughts about, where members might go with the vote would be wrong, and that members would work with me in supporting the regulations, which are based on the advice from the Climate Change Committee. Some members asked me to accept the CCC’s advice—in fact, they wanted me to be compelled by that advice, no matter what it was, even well before we started to work on our climate change plan. I simply cannot reconcile that view with what I have heard today. However, it is not my job to tell members what it is politically expedient to do. Brian Whittle: Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention on that point? Gillian Martin: I want to address some of the comments that members have made in the debate.”
“Gillian Martin: I say with the greatest of respect that the work that is required to set out a climate change plan in draft takes months. That is because we may have to adjust some of our proposals on the basis of advice from the Climate Change Committee. We also need to speak to our Cabinet colleagues about what is possible within their portfolios, which I have done, and I am very grateful to them for their pragmatic approach and their suggestions. I understand the urgency that is felt by most members across the chamber on tackling the climate emergency—I agree with them. I am afraid, however, that I cannot reconcile that sentiment with the prospect that some members may sit on their hands and abstain on the regulations.”
“The Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Act 2024, which was passed with cross-party support, outlines the sequence of events that result in a final climate change plan. Under that legislation, the deadline for laying a draft climate change plan in Parliament is two months after the carbon budget regulations come into force. That is set in statute, and I have always been clear that that is the order in which the regulations and the plan would be developed. In fact, no other UK nation is compelled to produce a climate change plan in draft at the same time as it lays its carbon budget regulations. Mercedes Villalba: Is it the Government’s position that work should always be left until the final deadline? It is possible to bring things forward ahead of time.”
“It means taking the time to prepare and plan for the future, taking into account how long it will take to reach targets in a practical way—not declaring proudly when we will arrive and then discovering that the only way to do that involves scaling Mount Everest wearing a T-shirt and flip-flops. Fail to prepare and you prepare to fail. That is what we have seen time and again with the Scottish Government and climate change. My colleagues and I will not be supporting the passage of the SSI, not because we oppose decarbonising and renewable energy but because we cannot support an approach that prioritises getting it done over doing it right. We cannot support targets that, yet again, have been set without any notion of how we will get there. 18:32 Gillian Martin: I wish to be clear about sequencing.”
“That means that we must not write off our oil and gas sector, but make it the foundation on which the renewables future is built. It means being willing to set aside an ideological opposition to nuclear energy and being willing to explore the potential to innovate technologies such as small modular nuclear reactors or even fission. It means accepting that we must be pragmatic if we want to retain the public’s support for what is a necessary goal and that focusing energies on things such as cutting red meat consumption or punishing people for having to rely on their cars will achieve exactly the opposite outcome.”
“For Scotland to succeed in the race to net zero, our goal should not be to come first but to finish in a position of strength. That means using our skills, knowledge and energy resources to help the world to decarbonise and, through that, to help meet the costs of our own journey to net zero. Whether by leading in the development of floating offshore wind, becoming a key manufacturing centre for subsea cables or combining our oil and gas knowledge with our renewable energy potential to become the dominant hydrogen producer in Europe, we can become a global renewables hub. The decisions that we make on how we decarbonise will determine whether our energy industry evolves and thrives in the new era of renewables or dies out.”
“The Government had not considered whether the supply chain for heat pumps was strong enough to supply that many units or what it would do to ensure that. It had not considered who was going to install those million heat pumps or who was going to pay for them, never mind who was going to maintain them. When it eventually turned its mind to those questions, it was too late. It had set itself a goal and turned it into an own goal. The future of the global economy is a race for energy and the resources that are needed to harness it. Who can produce, store and export the greatest amount most cheaply and most consistently? Scotland can be a leader in that race. In the same way that we built a global reputation for oil and gas, we can build, and are building, a global reputation for renewable energy.”
“Not only will we fail to meet unachievable targets; we will harm our economy, spend taxpayer funds ineffectively, and force the public to foot the bill. Sadly, that is just where we have ended up. This Parliament has heard plenty of big, bold goals from the Scottish Government on climate change, but little in the way of detail on how it expects us to get there. When there is detail, it is usually late, unrealistic, or both. Let us take the target to convert 1 million homes to using heat pumps by 2030. That is a big, bold goal but, under scrutiny from the Conservatives, it soon became clear that the Scottish Government had given almost no thought as to how it would reach that objective or what the implications might be.”
“It used to be said that the enemy of a good plan was the pursuit of a perfect one. Apparently, the modern version is to say that the enemy of a good climate change plan is the Scottish Government. I want to make it clear that we on the Conservative benches want Scotland to decarbonise. We want Scotland to make the most of its vast renewable potential, with the economic opportunity that that brings, and we want an environmentally sustainable future. The Scottish Conservatives, together with every party across the chamber, voted for the Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill in 2019 because we saw both the need to decarbonise, and the potential gains if we get it right. However, if we get it wrong—if we choose grandiose headline-grabbing promises over pragmatism—we risk sabotaging ourselves in a spectacular fashion.”
“I move amendment S6M-19253.2, to leave out from “that future” to end and insert: “the transformative power of education and training, and the vital roles that colleges and apprenticeships play in supporting young people and building resilient communities, including in a just transition away from fossil fuels; acknowledges the importance of having college facilities located close to where people live, ensuring accessibility and inclusion; believes that improved college governance is essential to prevent poor management decisions and to safeguard the quality of provision; acknowledges the work of EIS-FELA and UNISON in campaigning for better further education provision and supporting college staff across the country who face uncertainty about the future; calls for enhanced outcomes for women, students and apprentices, to ensure that they are not disproportionately channelled into low-waged sectors; urges colleges to align their skills offerings with the ambitions of the National Performance Framework; supports the introduction of regulated minimum training hours and standards for apprenticeships; believes that colleges must be living wage employers and exemplars of fair work practices, and calls for all apprentices to be paid a living wage.” 16:20”
“We cannot support that on the public dime. Mechanisms must be put in place to ensure that women have an equal opportunity to gain skills and employment in well-paid sectors. It begs the question of why we use public money to support certain apprenticeship and college courses at all, if the result is— The Deputy Presiding Officer: Ms Slater, you need to conclude. Lorna Slater: —that people graduating from those courses do not achieve well-paid work.”
“I spoke to one apprentice who was apprenticed to a local authority. The local authority had designated itself as both employer and training provider. The apprentice had no formal training standards or provision, and she had no one to turn to in order to complain about that state of affairs. She had no independent evaluation of her learning or of the quality of training that she was receiving. If she complained to the local authority about the poor training provision, she risked failing her apprenticeship—and we are failing apprentices like her. I have already spoken in the chamber about the gender disparities among apprenticeships and, I suspect, in college course provision, too. Men get apprenticeships that put them into well-paid sectors. Women are channelled into low-paid sectors, which may trap them for a lifetime of inequality.”
“Will the member give way? Lorna Slater: I am sorry, but I need to make some headway. The courses are offered on limited and inflexible days, so apprentices’ work weeks are inefficient, and their travel and childcare expenses are increased as a result. Employers that can afford to do so have therefore started using private training providers to overcome those problems and to develop bespoke courses. Private training providers can afford the latest equipment and will teach specific skills, such as how to install a heat pump, for example, rather than the college doing so. The college will include heat pumps as part of a broader plumbing course that does not necessarily meet the needs of that apprentice. In some cases private training provision is questionable, while in other cases it works well.”
“We could see improved productivity thanks to a healthier workforce, an end to the seemingly ever-growing number of people who are condemned to a life on welfare because of preventable illness, and fewer people struggling with poor mental health. We could also take the pressure off Scotland’s NHS, better allowing it to see beyond the immediate future. Taken together, those steps would give us a genuine chance to address the fiscal threat that the Scottish Fiscal Commission has set out and would take us at least some way towards closing the looming budget gap. Even more importantly, they would enable us to help more people in Scotland to live longer, healthier lives. Ultimately, if we in this chamber cannot find a way to focus on long-term gain for the country, how can we hope to convince the public to do the same for their own health?”
“The Scottish Fiscal Commission’s report lays out in stark detail the consequences of continuing down that short-term path when it comes to the intersection between health and our economy. Health is far from being the only factor that will influence our future fiscal position, but many of the other factors are, for better or worse, outside our control. Healthcare and the health of our population are very much the responsibility of this Parliament. As is true of anyone’s efforts to improve their own health, improving the nation’s health is not something that we can achieve instantly with one action; it is the result of a lot of small changes that work together, over time, to achieve a cumulative effect. That end result has the potential to be transformational.”
“Almost every aspect of what the NHS does today could be argued to be essential, but the judgment that we must make is not whether something is essential but whether it is effective. That criterion of effectiveness is crucial. Too often, the most effective long-term approach loses out to the one that is more politically expedient or cheaper today, even if that means a higher cost tomorrow. Equally, those of us whose role is one of scrutiny can be guilty of having our own reasons for choosing the path of opposition over collaboration. Short-term thinking tends to result in long-term losses, and although the nature of politics means that we will not—and, indeed, should not—agree on everything, we are in danger of losing sight of anything that is not on our immediate horizon.”
“Secondly, when the health and social care sector is under so much pressure, many within it are naturally resistant to the idea of any of the money that they are spending now being diverted towards prevention. I suggest that prioritising one element does not necessarily mean deprioritising another. Rather, it might reduce the need in certain areas. That would have to be a gradual shift and not an overnight change but, because it would be gradual, we must begin the process now if we want to maximise its impact. We must be ready to overcome the resistance to changing priorities within the NHS and must accept the need to shift the less-effective elements of the existing spend to prevention.”
“The biggest factors by a long way in a person’s long-term health outcomes in later years are their VO2 max, which is their ability to absorb oxygen, and their muscle mass in the middle years. Those two things can be improved if relatively small actions are continued over time, which is why I am such an advocate for a concerted shift towards prevention now. The sooner we act, the better. Why is it so hard to make that change? First, prevention is, by its very nature, hard to measure. It is far easier to say how much we are spending on treating cancer or supporting people who are dealing with addiction than it is to say how many cancers have been prevented by improving people’s diets or how many people took a different path because a community organisation got five years’ guaranteed funding.”
“It sets out how we can embed prevention within our education system and make better use of the facilities and resources that we already have to prevent illness and to ensure that members of the next generation live longer, healthier lives. We must encourage change not only among young people. The SFC tells us that the greatest challenge for our economy will come as those who are currently in their 30s and 40s reach old age. Although those who are over 55 at the moment are most likely to drink and smoke to excess, those in the generation below them are struggling with obesity, inactivity and a more sedentary lifestyle. Even a small change in habits today can have an outsize effect on health outcomes down the line.”
“If we do not take tough decisions today, we risk our successors in the Parliament having to make impossible decisions a few years from now. The biggest opportunity for change is to reduce the demand for healthcare by increasing our healthy life expectancy. There are many ways in which to achieve that aim, but any approach must include reducing obesity, promoting a healthy diet and widening opportunities for activity. It means tackling poverty, improving our housing stock, making better use of education—not only to promote a healthy lifestyle but to create new opportunities—and, of course, increasing participation in sport and physical activity. Over the summer, working with the think tank Enlighten, I published a paper that is aimed squarely at preventing illness.”
“As we live longer, we are likely to spend more years in poor health, which means more years with chronic illness, disability or dependence on others for care, all of which comes at a price. The demand on the national health service grows as more people need more treatment for longer. Social care and welfare costs rise as more people are unable to work or care for themselves. On the other side of that coin, economic activity, productivity and tax revenues decline as the size and health of our working-age population declines. It is a vicious cycle and, as the SFC’s report makes clear, we must act to arrest it now if we are to have any hope of avoiding crippling budget challenges in years to come. Healthcare already accounts for a major percentage of Scotland’s total budget.”
“The fact that the population of Scotland is predicted to age more quickly than that of the United Kingdom as a whole means that those pressures will arrive with us more quickly. As a society, we are living longer, which is welcome, but there is a difference between life expectancy and healthy life expectancy, which is the number of years for which someone can expect to live in good health. Scotland’s average healthy life expectancy recently fell to a near 10- year low, with women expected to have 60 years of good health and men 59.6 years. Across the country, there is huge variation in healthy life expectancy. In North Ayrshire, men and women can expect to have around 52 healthy years of life, while people in Perth and Kinross can expect to have at least 13 more healthy years than that.”
“I thank members from across the chamber for supporting my motion so that the debate could take place. Members will recognise that I have been known to argue that the solution to most problems in our society is to go for a run. Today, however, I will not make that argument; instead, I will set out why improving public health is the solution to many, if not most, of the intractable long-term issues that our economy faces. I will, of course, weave into my argument the importance of being physically active. The Scottish Fiscal Commission’s 2025 “Fiscal Sustainability Report”, which was published in April this year, set out that Scotland’s annual budget gap is set to widen in the coming decades, and that that is being driven in no small part by an ageing and less healthy population.”
“I look forward to hearing what the minister and others have to say in response to those calls. 16:51”
“My question is simply this: why are children in Scotland subject to a postcode lottery when it comes to accessing early years provision? My motion makes the simple asks that the Scottish Government change the guidance and guarantee funded places, across all local authorities, from the day after a child’s third birthday. If that is not doable and the Government is not minded to change that guidance or to fund any change, other options should be considered. Ultimately, I am seeking universality and equality of access to early learning and development across Scotland, which simply does not exist at present. The Government must end the postcode lottery, it must encourage more parents back into the workplace and it must properly fund early learning provision from a child’s third birthday, no matter where they live in Scotland.”
“For the vast majority of families, that money is simply not there and childcare is just not affordable. On the point behind Mr Whittle’s intervention, high-quality early learning is vital to supporting a child’s cognitive development and their development of social skills. UNICEF has identified it as one of the key factors. It knows that children from lower-income backgrounds are at greater risk of learning delays and of falling behind their more affluent peers. UNICEF also identifies that children who have access to high-quality early learning will do better in terms of attainment and higher job earnings and are more likely to stay out of the criminal justice system. There are plenty of upsides, down the line, to the provision of early learning and childcare.”
“However, the Fraser of Allander Institute states that limited access to affordable childcare is the “elephant in the room when it comes to the cost of raising parental employment”. The Scottish Women’s Budget Group conducted a survey on that very issue, and 50 per cent of the women who responded reported that managing childcare had impacted the volume of paid work that they were taking on, with a third reporting that they were reducing their working hours simply to meet childcare costs. Those substantial costs are not to be sniffed at. The Scottish Government’s own Scottish household survey, which was published this morning, says that 16 per cent of households are spending between £5,000 and £10,000 per year on childcare. That figure was just 10 per cent in 2018, so it has gone up massively.”
“It is right to point out that, if people like me want to expand eligibility to universal access, we must also recognise the flaws in the current funding model. It believes that, on average, there is a shortfall of around £1.40 between the funding rate and the cost per child per hour. Seventy-six per cent of the association’s members report that they believe that they will either only break even or operate at a loss this year. Those are not reasons not to expand eligibility, but they are reasons to fix the current funding model. This week, we have a much wider political focus on poverty—and rightly so. The Scottish Government itself has an explicit aim of reducing child poverty, and I support that aim.”
“Will the member take an intervention? Jamie Greene: Yes, if I can get my time back. Brian Whittle: I have to agree with everything that Jamie Greene has said so far. Does he agree that the current situation comes at a cost to the child as well, because they are not interacting with other children of their age? Jamie Greene: I could not agree more, and I will come on to some of the cognitive effects that that has on a child of three years of age. A wider point, which I hope Mr Whittle will agree with, is that the whole sector is in desperate need of focus, which is why the National Day Nurseries Association wrote to us ahead of today’s debate. It warned that the current funding model quite simply does not sufficiently cover the costs that nurseries incur to provide childcare.”
“Motion agreed to, That the Parliament agrees that the Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill be passed. The Presiding Officer: That concludes decision time. Early Learning and Childcare Provision”
“On a point of order, Presiding Officer. My app would not connect. I would have voted yes. The Presiding Officer: Thank you, Mr Whittle. We will ensure that that vote is recorded. For Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Ind) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Ross Greer] Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) [Proxy vote cast by Michael Marra] Regan, Ash (Edinburgh Eastern) (Alba) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Reform) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Fulton MacGregor] Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division on motion S6M-19221, in the name of Angela Constance, on the Criminal Justice Modernisation and Abusive Domestic Behaviour Reviews (Scotland) Bill, is: For 115, Against 0, Abstentions 0.”
“Prisoners begin that preparation about 12 weeks prior to their release and can continue receiving support for 12 months following release. I am acutely aware of the member’s point about victim support organisations and I assure him and Parliament that I will continue engaging very closely with Victim Support Scotland and other organisations to ensure that I support them as much as I can. The Deputy Presiding Officer: That concludes questions on the statement. I apologise to the two members whom I was unable to call, but we are almost four minutes over the given time and I must protect the rest of the afternoon’s business. To allow those on the front benches to change positions, there will be a short pause before we move to the next item of business. Dog Theft (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1”
“In the light of the extra tranche of early release prisoners, my concern is for the organisations that support the victims of crime and for those that support prisoners before and after their release, helping them to integrate back into communities and preventing reoffending. Does the Scottish Government intend to offer extra support to those essential organisations, or will they just have to shoulder the burden of responsibility themselves? Angela Constance: I inform the member of the increased investment in the new throughcare contract. I increased the investment in a project called Upside, which is a partnership of eight third sector organisations that now has capacity to support 2,700 people to return to the community.”
“We are talking about governance and training, and we provided more investment in dentistry in the most recent budget, which the Conservatives did not support. We are moving along with dentists, whom I thank for their work in ensuring that Scotland’s teeth health is as good as it can be. Can we do more? Yes. Are we doing more?”
“The minister will be aware that more than 300 dentists have taken early retirement since 2020, at the same time as 36,000 patients have been forced to go private. It is clear that the funding model is still not working. The Scottish Dental Association reports that nine out of 10 dentists say that the national health service is not an attractive place to build and maintain a career and that further reform is needed. Will the Government listen to them, stop more dentists leaving the NHS and ensure that our rural areas are not left as dental deserts? Jenni Minto: I made it clear in November 2023, when we introduced the new payment system for dentists—which has been welcomed by dentists— that that was the start of a journey.”
“It will include areas such as digital patient records, digital prescribing and other elements that Mr Whittle is very interested in—as am I, because I can see that there will be human resource and financial resource savings, as well as outcome improvements, for people who use the app. The Presiding Officer: That concludes topical question time. My apologies to those members whom I was unable to call. Before we move to the next item, I will allow a moment or two for members on the front benches to organise themselves. Point of Order 14:28”
“I am surprised at how long it is taking to develop and deploy such tech. Will the cabinet secretary confirm that the Scottish Government will deliver a single shared electronic patient record and software interoperability, alongside the roll-out of a fully functional MyCare app, across the NHS by 2030? Neil Gray: I recognise Brian Whittle’s interest in that. I look forward to continuing to collaborate with him on the app’s roll-out and will continue to do so after April. The full business case, which is in development, will quantify the benefits as well as the expected return on investment. That will inform the roll-out plan, as per our commitment in the NHS Scotland operational improvement plan.”
“Will he be the minister who finally delivers the obvious solutions for our students and our businesses? 16:18”
“I started by stating that education can have a huge impact on health inequalities, welfare, justice, the economy, the energy market, and the green and blue economies. I have tried to cajole, encourage and push the Government to join the dots to support our FE sector and match careers advice with fantastic opportunities in local communities. Surely there must be an element of logic. In welcoming the Minister for Higher and Further Education to his new role, I urge him to consider what could be achieved if we recognise the opportunities in engineering, the energy just transition, trades, and so on, and connect those opportunities to education and careers advice. I have the greatest respect for Ben Macpherson. I know that he understands the problems.”
“Another piece of the jigsaw is to connect career advice in secondary school to tertiary education and local opportunities, because there is a disconnect. In the engineering sector, there is potential for 2,500 new jobs in Ayrshire in mechanics, engineering and all the soft skills that such expansion demands. Prestwick cluster, along with the XLCC development in North and East Ayrshire, will be fishing from the same pond. There are huge opportunities in the green and blue economies, which require retraining of the workforce and the development of a stream of talent in the sector. Where is the workforce plan? We cannot just will that to happen; we need to make a plan. The Scottish Government must build the apprenticeship pipeline, not restrict it.”
“That would be such a success story, if it was not for the fact that the college was unable to offer places to those students, in large part because of a lack of funding to deliver its programmes. The college does its bit in delivering for 56 students over its allocation, at a cost of more than £280,000 to the college. It has advised that, if the constraints on the contracted volumes were lifted, it is confident that it could increase new starts in engineering programmes from around 130 to more than 200 per year. What is the Government thinking? Surely, in sectors such as engineering, construction trades, and health and social care, which are crying out for new recruits, whether that is through apprenticeships or training places, we should be doing everything that we can to increase the intake.”
“Ross Greer: Mr Whittle says that there were no answers to those questions. I presume that he did not read the workforce strategy for the green heat task force that the Government published? Brian Whittle: Yes, I did, but it had no answer on the 23,500 shortfall in tradespeople. We have fantastic tertiary education facilities in Ayrshire College and the University of the West of Scotland. They are able and more than willing to take on those challenges. Ayrshire College told me that 831 students were successful in an interview to apply for college-based programmes, including 400 applicants in engineering, 280 in aerospace, 171 in construction and trades, and 71 in health and social care. We desperately need those students in the workplace.”
“Although the bill focuses on reforms to the education system, in order for it to function as intended, it is vital that we look beyond the confines of the system and ensure that businesses are in the right position to provide those leaving the system with their desired destinations. When Patrick Harvie was a minister, he introduced a bill to retrofit 1 million homes with heat pumps by 2030. I kept asking him where the heat pumps would come from, who would fit and service them and who would pay for them. There were never any answers to those questions, with the industry suggesting that it was 23,500 tradespeople short if it was to deliver on the Government’s targets. It is no surprise that the legislation was quietly slipped on to the dusty shelves that are marked “unworkable”.”
“His position was that, although the company’s desire was to expand its aircraft maintenance facility at Prestwick because of the engineering crew’s experience, without sight of a workforce plan it has had to look at other facilities across Europe. Woodward cited a similar situation. It has made a strong case for investment in expansion at Prestwick, but access to a consistent apprenticeship pipeline is a concern. A key point to note is that the availability of places is not the only obstruction in the pipeline. Many businesses would welcome the opportunity to recruit more apprentices but are hamstrung by the difficulty of accessing the resources that are needed to expand their facilities, grow their business and bring through more apprentices as a result.”
“In my region, there are many exciting opportunities in engineering and trades, along with all the soft- skill jobs that come with those expansions. Every engineering company that I have spoken to in the aerospace cluster in Prestwick airport is desperate to expand and develop its business. The common stumbling block is the availability of workforce. In fact, parent company investment in those businesses demonstrates the need for a consistent supply chain of people. The chief executive of Ryanair flew into Prestwick to open its training academy and he met me specifically to speak about that recruitment prospectus.”
“I join other members in welcoming Ben Macpherson to his new position. I wish him well in what are, I suggest, very challenging times. I have always highlighted my support for education in all its forms. I have often said that education is the solution to health and welfare issues and, in fact, that it is the cornerstone of every portfolio. I absolutely believe that getting education right would pave the way to effective solutions to many of the current problems that society faces. Many of those issues have been created or at least exacerbated by the Scottish Government, which seems unable to create policy that is linked to need or create policy across portfolios. The potential for apprenticeships in Ayrshire, for example, would demonstrate the point in question.”
“To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government’s response is to reports that proposed changes to the counting method for NHS waiting lists will result in numbers falling despite no more patients being seen. (S6F-04327)”
“Amendment 96 agreed to. Amendment 212 moved—[Màiri McAllan]. The Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 212 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division. The vote is closed.”
“For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) Regan, Ash (Edinburgh Eastern) (Alba) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Fulton MacGregor] Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) Against Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Ind) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Ross Greer] McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Reform) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) [Proxy vote cast by Willie Rennie] The Deputy Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 58, Against 49, Abstentions 0.”