Lim Kim San
Singapore
“Mr Speaker, Sir, the Public Utilities Board's investigation shows that the residents of Pulau Ubin are unwilling to pay higher prices due to higher operating costs, thereby causing the contractor to cease operations. It was explained to the hon.”
“Sir, I understand the Member's point, but I hope he realises that six months after serving notice, the pigs will still be defecating freely which will continue to contaminate our water.”
“Sir, if anyone should get sick from coming into contact with contaminated water, I hope they will accept sympathy from the Member for Jurong. But we cannot evaluate the danger to human life in terms of dollars and cents. The farmers have known for several years now that pig-rearing will have to be phased out of the catchment areas.”
“Sir, all I can say is that we are still looking into the feasibility of siting a coal-fired station on one of the islands to reduce the pollution problem. But no definite decision has yet been made. We have several offers to do a feasibility study on it, and we are looking closely into the matter. 5.45 p.m.”
“Merit Scholar- Merit Courses ships Bursaries Medicine/ Dentistry 44 41 Engineering 28 22 Architecture/ Building/ Estate Management 6 18 Accountancy/ Business Administration 9 14 Arts/Social Science/Law 32 40 Science (includes Pharmacy) 82 102 ___ ___ 201 237 === === Sir, I believe the hon.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, air pollution is being monitored daily by the Anti- Pollution Unit, and we find that the air pollution in industrial estates and the urban areas is normally higher than in the residential or rural areas.”
The complete record
Every one of 1,111 lines we hold for Lim Kim San, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 11 of 23.
“Mr Speaker, Sir, we could not have provided the residents of Kallang with what the Member for Kallang described as imaginative planning, because Kallang Basin is just being populated. However, I do not think it is beyond the ingenuity of the People's Association, the Jurong Town Corporation and the Housing and Development Board to provide imaginative planning for recreational amenities for the residents in Kallang.”
“I am sure my colleague, the Minister for National Development, will sympathetically consider the request, if it is made to him, for the use of a ground floor unit for recreational activities. But I understand that there is a four-acre ground which the Housing and Development Board has marked out in Kallang Basin for the provision of a park and other recreational amenities for the residents.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker, Sir. As you have indicated, Sir, in replying to this Question from the Member for Kallang, I will also be replying on behalf of my colleagues, the Minister for Law and National Development and the Minister for Finance, as all three Questions asked by the Member for Kallang are similar in theme. Mr Speaker, Sir, there is in the Development Estimates a provision for six rural type community centres calculated at $10,000 each. This is a balance from the bulk provision for 10 rural type community centres and three standard type community centres under the Five-Year Development Plan 1966-70. As every constituency now has at least one community centre, the balance of available funds will be used only for new community centres in the resettlement areas. Social and recreational amenities are being provided and will be provided by the People's Association in consultation with the Housing and Development Board and the Jurong Town Corporation for the people residing in and working at Kallang Basin. I am told, Sir, that the Housing and Development Board has provided a limited range of social and recreational amenities for its tenants in all the housing estates, and Kallang Basin is no exception. In conjunction with the People's Association, the Housing and Development Board has provided a community centre with outdoor and indoor recreational amenities in Neighbourhood I, bounded by Serangoon Road, Bendemeer Road and Boon Keng Road.”
“Sir, the Enlistment Bill gives no option to a permanent resident, who is a non-citizen of Singapore, not to serve. Under this Bill, a permanent resident in Singapore is liable to be called up. However, there is no provision for a person who is a non-citizen and a non-resident of Singapore to serve in our armed forces at all.”
“He asked me whether we can take action against employers who infringe the provisions of the Bill. I think I have already mentioned that any person who fails to comply with any of the provisions under this Bill shall be guilty of an offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three years or to a fine not exceeding $5,000, or to both such fine and imprisonment. Mr Speaker, Sir, I think I have fully replied to all the queries raised.”
“In most cases, if a national serviceman has a realistic assessment of his capabilities, a job will be found for him. As regards the problem of either conscripting the 18-year olds or allowing them to continue with their education, we have considered that very carefully and have devised a scheme. I would like to inform the House that last year, of those who have the full Higher School Certificate, we have given deferment from national service to 855, and have allowed them to proceed to higher institutions of learning. As for the rest of those who have obtained the full H.S.C., about 572 have not been called up, and we expect to call them up by June. There is a discussion going on at present between my officers and those from the institutions of higher learning, particularly Nanyang University and the University of Singapore, to make arrangements for conscripts with full H.S.C, qualifications to do a year's course of study if they are chosen as officers. With this arrangement, the completion of three years' service in the Army would be taken as equivalent to the first year in the university, so that after their discharge as officers of the armed forces, they could join the university at the second-year level. There are a lot of details to be worked out, but I can assure Members that both parties, i.e., officials from the universities and my officers, are trying their very best to work out a solution for those who are conscripted and fit enough to be officers in the Singapore Armed Forces to save a year in the higher institutions of learning after they are discharged from national service. Another question raised by the Member for Sembawang concerns the employment of national servicemen.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I am sure that in his heart of hearts the Member for Sembawang welcomes national service. I shall try to clear up his doubts. I have mentioned in this House before that there is no question of a labour shortage being caused when we conscript the 18-year olds. What I said was that there would be a temporary labour shortage while these people are in national service. There would be a delay of two years before they come out into the labour market. Moreover, the present labour shortage is not so much a shortage of unskilled labour. When a boy or a girl of 18 years leaves school, he or she is considered as unskilled labour. The present shortage is greater in respect of skilled labour than unskilled labour. So I would say that enlistment or conscription of our 18-year olds will not cause a labour shortage. It is actually a delay in supplying labour. Conscription first began in 1967. And in 1969 some of the national servicemen were released, and quite a large number of them have been placed in employment. This brings me to the complaint voiced by the Member for Sembawang -that those who have been discharged from the armed forces after a service of two or three years, as the case may be, have found themselves without jobs for three months or so. We will try to place all discharged personnel in employment as quickly as possible, but this takes time. In our short experience of national service, we have found that we have had no difficulty in placing a discharged national serviceman in employment if he is not very particular. Some of them are really choosey as they feel that they deserve more than what they are offered. But I think that less than five per cent are still unplaced after three months of their discharge.”
“In order to protect the rights and employment interests of national servicemen, Part V of the Bill imposes on employers three main duties: (a) employers are required to reinstate in their employment full-time or mobilized national servicemen who were employed by them for a continuous period of at least six months preceding the day they were called up for service; (b) employers shall not dismiss a person solely or mainly by reason of his having been called up; (c) employers of the person ordered to report for national service shall grant him leave of absence during the period of such service and shall be obliged to pay the difference between an employee's service pay and his civilian pay when he is called up for reserve or mobilized service. Employers who have paid the difference between their employee's service and civilian pay shall be entitled under regulations to claim from Government for reimbursement thereof. Similarly, self-employed persons shall be paid make-up pay in the same manner as those who are employed except that their civilian earnings shall be limited to the maximum of $1,500 per month. Thus, no make-up pay will be payable in respect of that part of their civilian earnings which is in excess of $1,500 per month. Any person who fails to comply with any provision under the Bill shall be guilty of an offence and upon conviction thereunder be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three years or to a fine not exceeding $5,000 or to both such imprisonment and fine. Sir, I beg to move. Question proposed. 3.29 p.m.”
“Some of the special skills we have in mind are: (1) Electronic engineering, (2) Electrical engineering, (3) Telecommunication engineering, (4) Mechanical engineering, (5) Marine engineering, (6) Aeronautical engineering, (7) Naval architecture, and (8) Automobile engineering. National service under the Bill consists of any one of three types of service: (a) full-time service for a period of two years or, in the case of officers or persons selected for officer training, for a period of three years; (b) reserve service, which means either service on a part-time basis consisting of - (i) a period of 14 days followed by eight hours per week during the first six months service, and (ii) a period of seven days annually and three hours per week or six hours per fort night or 12 hours per month after the first six months; or for periods not exceeding in the aggregate 40 days annually. (c) mobilized service when the interests of Singapore so require The Bill also provides that any person who is registered or is liable to register for national service thereunder shall not leave or remain outside Singapore unless he is in possession of a valid exit permit. The granting of such exit permits will be very strictly implemented. There will be no automatic postponement or exemption from national service liability for any person or class of persons by virtue of profession, calling or otherwise. Such postponement or exemption will only be by way of specific orders of the proper authority. There is also provision made under the Bill for enlistment of persons in regular service. Ordinarily, persons who are not in national service can apply to serve as regular members of the Singapore Armed Forces under such terms and conditions as may be prescribed.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Second time." National service was first introduced in Singapore in 1967 and administered under the National Service Ordinance, 1952, which is in turn based on the Federation of Malaysia Ordinance 37 of 1952. Since then, new demands and recent changes in the policy, administration and management of national service in Singapore have rendered it necessary to introduce new legislation on the subject. The said National Service Ordinance, 1952, has been found to be inadequate to meet such changed conditions. Accordingly, a new Enlistment Bill has been drafted. Under the Enlistment Bill any citizen or a permanent resident of Singapore between the ages of 18 and 40 residing within or without the Republic is liable to be enlisted for national service, in the case of officers and persons who possess special skills required by the armed forces, the maximum age for national service liability is 50. However, this does not necessarily mean that all persons in such age group will actually be called up. With the rapid expansion in the technical services of the Singapore Armed Forces, highly trained and qualified personnel will have to be made available to cater for the maintenance and running of highly sophisticated equipment and weaponry which the Singapore Armed Forces are acquiring over the next few years. The provision of the Bill has extended the age limit for service from 40 years to 50 years in order to make available to the Singapore Armed Forces persons who have had specialised training and extensive experience which may normally not be available from ordinary manpower resources.”
“Mr Ch'ng Jit Koon asked the Minister for Social Affairs whether hawkers are eligible for public assistance allowance and, if not, why.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, it is true that timber lorries travelling along the busy roads in and near the City centre during peak periods are a cause of traffic congestion and also a possible hazard to other road users, as they are huge vehicles carrying heavy loads and moving at a slow speed not exceeding 20 miles per hour. These lorries transport timber logs from the railway yard at Keppel Road to the various sawmills, most of which are situated in the Kallang Road and Lavender Street areas, and must inevitably travel through the City centre. It would not be conducive to our timber trade, however, if transportation of timber logs to sawmills were to be restricted to outside the peak periods of the day. The Traffic Police are watching the situation very carefully, and drivers of timber lorries are advised to keep to the left-hand side of the road so as not to hinder vehicular traffic and also endanger other road users. The Traffic Police are also taking stringent action against these lorry drivers for failure to comply with the traffic laws for speeding, for causing obstruction, and having smoky exhausts. For the whole year of 1969 and since the beginning of this year, no case of traffic accident involving timber lorries occurred in the City area. Mr Speaker, Sir, an area South of Kranji industrial estate is being developed by the Jurong Town Corporation for re-siting sawmills at present situated in various parts of the Republic. Those sawmills in the City area which will be affected by the urban renewal scheme will also be given alternative accommodation in this area. Once this project is completed, timber lorries will not and need not use the already heavily congested roads in and near the City centre. HAWKERS (Eligibility for public assistance allowances) 4.”
“(b) (i) All officers of the Dewan Bahasa dan Kebudayaan Kebangsaan have been transferred to other Ministries/Departments as follows: (a) The research officer was transferred to the Ministry of Education; (b) The clerical officer was transferred to the Attorney-General's Chambers; and (c) The typist and the office boy were transferred to the Press Section, Ministry of Culture. (ii) None of the staff of the Dewan had his services terminated.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, the existing legislation is adequate to deal with persons causing noise nuisance. The laws that can be invoked are: (1) The Minor Offences Ordinance (Chapter117). (2) The Public Entertainments Ordinance, 1958 (No. 40 of 1958). (3) The Road Traffic Ordinance, 1961 (No. 26 of 1961). Members will agree that legislation alone will not be able to deal with the noise nuisance. Loud noises are usually created by inconsiderate people. Good social habits can be achieved by education both in the schools and at home. In the next decade we should have an educated society where the majority should have acquired considerate habits. By then we hope that the above legislation would be obsolete and could be safely revoked. DEWAN BAHASA DAN KEBUDAYAAN KEBANGSAAN (Winding-up) 5. Inche Rahmat bin Kenap asked the Minister for Culture (a) whether the Dewan Bahasa dan Kebudayaan Kebangsaan has ceased to exist and the reasons therefor; and (b) how many officers of the Dewan (i) were transferred to another department or to another Ministry; or (ii) had their services terminated. The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Culture (Inche Sha'ari bin Tadin) (for the Minister for Culture): (a) The Dewan Bahasa dan Kebudayaan Kebangsaan was wound up in July 1969 after the purposes for which it was set up were achieved. The Dewan was set up in 1960 mainly, amongst other things, to promote the study of the National Language amongst the adult population. In the nine years of its existence it had successfully encouraged the study of the National Language through its various activities. Now that the study of the National Language is conducted in our schools in a systematic manner, the Dewan has no other work to do.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, on 1st April, 1970, there were 420 non-citizens in the Singapore Police Force and 258 non-citizens in the Singapore Armed Forces. Citizenship is granted only to those whose loyalty to Singapore and what Singaporeans seek for themselves is beyond doubt. All these non-citizens have had the opportunity to take out Singapore citizenship and throw in their lot with us in the years before August 1965 when citizenship was obtainable by application after two years' residence. They decided not to apply to be Singapore citizens. Now for bread-and-butter considerations, some have applied. We think it is better to give them the bread-and-butter benefits without imposing the responsibilities of citizenship on them. They can all look forward to their gratuities or pensions when they have fulfilled their service obligations, and they will carry our good wishes with them when they retire to wherever they have come from. NOISE NUISANCE (Legislation) 4. Mr J. F. Conceicao asked the Minister for Defence whether the existing law is adequate to deal with persons causing noise nuisance.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, perhaps the Member for Ulu Pandan is not aware that, as a result of one of the many welcoming receptions that Ministers had in which a lot of crackers were fired, some of us have suffered from deafness because of the noise. I for one find it difficult to hear with my left ear just because on one occasion the welcome was most uproarious indeed. The point I want to make is this. Do we want to allow a few irresponsible persons to celebrate a festive occasion in such a way that it can cause damage and endanger the lives of the majority of the people? I think, by and large, the feeling is that we should not allow such a dangerous practice to continue. It may be that the incidents that happened during Chap Goh Meh may have been the result of faulty manufacture of the fire crackers. On that score, we are taking legal action to see that those who manufacture fire crackers and do not conform to the safety regulations required for their manufacture will be prosecuted. Incidentally, Mr Speaker, Sir, before I conclude, I would like to draw the attention of Members to page 3 of the Bill in which it says: '(7) For the purposes of subsections (1) to (5) of this section, the expression "firework" or "fireworks" includes "fire crackers and sand crackers.".' Question put, and agreed to. Clause 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill. Bill reported without amendment; read a Third time and passed. CONSIDERATION OF MORE THAN ONE ITEM OF SUPPLY BUSINESS Resolved, "That, notwithstanding the Standing Orders, the second and third readings of the Supply Bill for the financial year 1st April, 1970 to 31st March, 1971 and the Supplementary Supply Bill, 1970, be taken today." - [Dr Goh Keng Swee]. SUPPLY BILL Order for Second and Third Readings read. 3.10 p.m.”
“I believe the Member for Anson supports the Bill and he wants the firing of crackers to be controlled. That is the only way we know of controlling it. If we allow everyone to fire crackers freely and indiscriminately in their own homes, we will have a repetition of what has happened. I hope that clarifies the point the Member has made. Of course, it would be preferable if, out of their own feeling for the community and out of civic consciousness, those who participate in firing crackers in the specified areas will do the cleaning up of the areas themselves. I am sure my colleague, the Minister for Health, will have his burden relieved, especially during the Chinese New Year, if those who indulge in firing crackers help to clear up the area.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, of the four speakers, two of them fully support the Bill, one is against it, and one, not understanding the purpose of the Bill, is probably neither for nor against it. I do not know what his stand is. Anyway, I will take the two points raised by the Member for Punggol. He seeks clarification on what is meant by "defined areas". In this respect, I wish to seek the assistance of all Members of Parliament, the management committees of the respective community centres, and the Citizens' Consultative Committees, in helping to find suitable areas for the letting off of crackers during festive occasions. The Deputy Commissioner of Police will then be directed to specify those areas for the firing of crackers which Members of Parliament, with members of their own constituencies, have decided upon.”
“It is now proposed to amend section 6 of the Ordinance to revert to the position before 1966, and to resuscitate the original regulations relating to the control, and firing of fire crackers. That is to say, there would not be a total ban on the discharge of fireworks but a general prohibition will be introduced which may be lifted by way of a Gazette Notification from time to time or by the issuance of licences for personal or other reasons to individuals or public bodies by the Deputy Commissioner of Police or his authorised representative. Such orders or licences may relate not only to specified dates, times and places wherein fireworks may be discharged, but also to particular types of fireworks that could be discharged or other conditions that the Deputy Commissioner of Police may deem it necessary to impose. Administratively, for the purposes of implementation of the law, private persons or public bodies granted licences to let off fireworks under the Act will be identified by the use of special flags, pendants or other means to be displayed in those areas which are designated. The Police will charge a fee for the issue of such licences. It is also expressly provided that no order published or licence issued under the Act shall be held to relieve any person or body from liability in the event that any damage, loss or injury to persons or property is occasioned by the discharge of fireworks. The penalty for an offence under section 6 of the Act has been enhanced from a fine not exceeding $100 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding one month to a fine not exceeding $500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or to both such fine and imprisonment. Sir, I beg to move. Question proposed. 2.45 p.m.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Second time." Sir, during the Chinese New Year festive season, particularly on Chap Goh Meh, considerable damage to both persons and property was caused by the indiscriminate firing of crackers. A total of 29 incidents were officially reported; 25 persons were injured out of whom six died, one is still warded in hospital, while the remaining 18 have been discharged. Nine houses were damaged by fire and the total estimated value of the damage is assessed at $560,390. The loss of lives and the extent of damage have thus rendered it expedient and necessary to amend existing legislation on the subject. Although cracker firing has been totally banned in countries like Hong Kong, West Malaysia and Indonesia, it is not our intention to place a total ban on the discharge of fireworks. We intend instead, to enforce very strict control over those who indiscriminately indulge in such activities without due regard to persons or property. Patterns of social behaviour must of necessity keep step with changes in standards and living conditions if grievous consequences to all are to be avoided. Where civic-responsibility and social-consciousness are lacking, human behaviour has to be regulated by means of social legislation. Much as we dislike to inhibit the enjoyment of some, the present amendment to the Minor Offences Ordinance has to be made if we are to prevent a repetition of the disastrous events on Chap Goh Meh. At present, section 6 of the Minor Offences Ordinance, which came into force in 1966, does not prohibit the letting off of fire crackers unless specifically prohibited by the Deputy Commissioner of Police in the Gazette.”
“Yes, Sir. Printed copies of the Bill distributed to Members.”
“Now, Sir. I lay upon the Table a Certificate of Urgency signed by the President in respect of the Minor Offences (Amendment) Bill. Certificate of Urgency handed in.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to introduce a Bill intituled "An Act to amend the Minor Offences Ordinance (Chapter 117 of the Revised Edition)." Bill read the First time. Second Reading”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, the National Safety First Council holds campaigns periodically to stress the importance of road safety to the public. As a matter of fact, Sir, the Council will be launching a pedestrian safety campaign from the 30th March to the 14th April this year. BILL INTRODUCED SUBORDINATE COURTS BILL "to amend and consolidate the law relating to the constitution, jurisdiction and powers of the subordinate courts and the administration of justice therein", presented by the Minister for Law and National Development (Mr E. W. Barker); read the First time, to be read a Second time on the next available sitting of Parliament, and to be printed. DEVELOPMENT ESTIMATES FOR FINANCIAL YEAR 1ST APRIL, 1970, TO 31ST MARCH, 1971 Order read for consideration in Committee of Supply [Allotted Day]. [Mr Speaker in the Chair] 2.36 p.m.”
“The question of prohibiting jaywalking is now being considered by the Ministry of Communications. NATIONAL SAFETY FIRST COUNCIL (Launching of pedestrian safety campaign) 3. Mr Ng Yeow Chong asked the Minister for Defence whether he intends to request the Safety First Council to conduct an all-out campaign involving civil organisations to drive home the importance of road safety.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, arrangements have been made for the Public Cleansing Corps of the Ministry of Health to remove blood stains on the road between 6 a.m. and 6 p.m. after the injured persons or dead bodies have been taken away from the scene of accidents. In the event of blood stains left on the road between 6 p.m. and 6 a.m., the Police will cover up these stains with sawdust which will be swept as soon as possible. The Public Cleansing Corps will be contacted at 6 a.m. the following morning for a more thorough cleansing of the stains. TRAFFIC LAWS (Stricter enforcement to curb accidents) 2. Mr Ng Yeow Chong asked the Minister for Defence whether he will adopt stricter enforcement of traffic laws in view of the alarming increase of fatal accidents recently. Mr Lim Kim San: Mr Speaker, Sir, I am glad to say that statistics show that there was a decrease in the number of fatal accident cases in 1969 as compared with the previous year. In 1969, a total of 302 persons were killed on the road, whereas in 1968, the number of road accident victims killed was 312. The traffic police are already stepping up action against motorists who show no consideration for other road users on the roads, and the traffic laws are being enforced as strictly as possible. The scale of composition fines that can be imposed for traffic offences which are compoundable has been reviewed, and the Ministry of Communications has been urged to introduce legislation in order to raise the maximum composition fine from $20 to $50 so that the habitual offender will not get off as lightly as the first offender. The majority of road accidents in 1969 involved pedestrians who crossed the road heedless of road traffic.”
“I am sorry, Mr Speaker. I would like to reply further. However, I believe I have covered most of the points raised. Mr Sim Boon Woo: Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The time allotted for Head 0902 having expired, the following amendment, standing in the name of Madam Chan Choy Siong, was not proceeded with: (2) That the total sum to be allocated for Head 0902 be reduced by $100. The sum of $2,183,710 for Head 0902 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. Head 1001 -”
“The Member for Telok Blangah has suggested that we should accept a telephone call as evidence. I think he has a higher regard for the honesty of the average man than we who have worked in the Government for some time have. I will not take the responsibility of directing my officer to accept a telephone call as genuine evidence. The Member for Havelock wants to know the rationale for not issuing passports to Singapore citizens abroad who have forgotten or have not renewed their passports in time. There are many reasons, some of which I cannot divulge. It may be that during a person's stay abroad, he may have been involved in activities which constitute a security risk to us when he returns. May I remind Members that the issue of a passport to any applicant is not one of right? It is a privilege. 3.20 p.m.”
“May I take some time to check the figures again, Sir? Either the typist has made a mistake here or the Member has been misinformed. My information is that in the case of a restricted certificate of identity for direct travel between West Malaysia and Singapore, the fee is $5. However, I am willing to go back and seek further clarification. If there is a different charge for citizens and non-citizens, there is a very good reason for it. As far as possible, I will keep this distinction because it indicates how valuable Singapore citizenship is. A Singapore citizen has more privileges than a non-citizen. This is as it should be. May I clarify how a certificate of identity is issued? It is governed by Article 28 of the United Nations Final Act and Convention. It is an International Geneva Agreement. It requires that before we can issue a certificate of identity to a person, he must produce documentary evidence from his country of birth that he is stateless, and if he can produce that evidence, then he will be issued with a certificate of identity with re-entry facilities upon application. This is to prevent anyone issuing a certificate of identity from infringing on the rights of the country in which the applicant is born. That is why the applicant is covered by an international convention. That is the law and, as the Member for Delta has said, laws are made by man and they can be un-made by man. She said that we must have some human consideration in the application of the law. We have shown human consideration here. That is why in genuine cases where special consideration justifies it, we issue a certificate of identity to a person who is normally not eligible for such travel facilities.”
“Their applications to bring in their wives and children would be governed by the three factors that I have mentioned. If they are economically viable, there is no reason why their wives and children cannot be allowed in. As I have indicated, about eight out of ten applications have been approved. The Member for Telok Blangah asked why non-citizens have to pay $24.60 for a certificate of identity when citizens pay $25 for an international passport which is valid for five years. As a Singapore citizen, you have certain privileges. Surely we should treat our citizens better than non-citizens. And for these certain privileges - privileges over and above those not enjoyed by non-citizens, and I think every country does that - our citizens have got more responsibilities than non-citizens. I think the Member is also mistaken because the fee for a restricted certificate of identity for travelling to West Malaysia is only $5 and not $24.60. The sum of $24.60 is charged for an intemational certificate of identity for travel overseas other than West Malaysia. 3.15 p.m.”
“I may not have heard the Member for Toa Payoh correctly. Singapore citizens do not require work permits to take up employment in Singapore. Is that the Member's question?”
“That is gambling. But I hope the Member for Anson will listen closely to me. I said we do not gamble on the future of Singapore. We take no chances with the future of Singapore.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, we do not gamble on the future of Singapore.”
“Sir, as regards applications which were not approved, namely, 168 in 1968 and 107 in 1969, these were mainly due to the fact that the husbands' income was low and they were not considered to have capacity lo support their wives, much less their children, later on in Singapore. I think that answers the point raised by the Member for Anson.”
“Sir, as I said, if a man is intent on, marrying a woman out of love, no amount of prevention by any Government official will stop that marriage. But I think we have announced time and time again - and I have just made it clear - the conditions under which we will allow a non-citizen wife to enter Singapore. To take up the point again that we have no feelings, as my colleague, the Minister for Foreign Affairs, said the other day, it is only those cases which have not been approved that come to Members' notice. Cases that have been approved do not come back to thank them for their assistance. For the information of Members, I would like to give some figures. In 1968, there were a total of 910 applications of Malaysian wives of Singapore citizens. Out of these 910 applications, 742 were approved. In 1969, out of 902 applications. 795 were approved. So you will see that we have not been very hard-hearted in enforcing this regulation, and whenever we can, we will let them through and make life happier for our citizens who have married non-citizen wives.”
“Sir, this is a different matter, The Member says the woman had not reached the specified age. At first, probably the application was prepared wrongly. As far as I understand, the application was made on the ground that she is the wife of a local resident. If she is the wife of a local citizen, it is not the age that is to be taken into consideration. It is the other factors which I have mentioned. I will now come to the third factor to which consideration will be given for admitting non-citizen wives and children of Singapore citizens. It is whether the husband is in a position to support his wife and children. We are not a hard-hearted Government and I believe the Ministers here have got feelings. At the same time, in deciding upon policy, we must not allow ourselves to be swayed by sentiment. The only sentiment we should allow ourselves to be swayed by is, is it for the good of Singapore? If it is for the good of Singapore, then we will carry out the policy. And once a policy has been decided, as my colleague, the Minister for Foreign Affairs, has said, we must stand firm. On the question of entry permits, we do relax the regulations sometimes under exceptional circumstances, because of our feelings, our sentiments, and on humanitarian grounds. We are not that hard-hearted as was made out to appear by the Member for Delta. I will now take up the suggestion put up by the Member for Changi that there should be closer liaison between the Registry of Marriages and the Immigration Department. He suggests that Singapore citizens who intend to marry non-citizens should be provided with a questionnaire. I do not know what questions he has in mind.”
“Then he comes under the category of persons who apply for permanent residence with an investment of $1/4 million. If the person so mentioned by the Member for Changi wants permanent residence, he will apply in the normal way as the others. There is no difference between them. If he is thinking of investing or has invested $1/4 million --”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I will reply first to the Member for Changi before proceeding to the other Members who have raised almost the same points. The Member for Changi wants to know how many foreigners who have invested between $125,000 and $250,000 have been given permanent residence in Singapore. I regret to say that I do not carry the figures around in my head. But if the Member still wants the information, he can put in a question and it will be made available. He also wants to know whether a locally-domiciled resident who invests in industry will be given permanent residence. If a person is locally-domiciled, it means that he is allowed to stay here and, in time to come, he will qualify for citizenship. Is that what the Member wants to know?”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of Supply has made progress and ask leave to sit again tomorrow.”
“It is our duty to see that no enemy catches us.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, the mere fact that we are taking part in a joint exercise with friendly countries in this region means that they realise we have a contribution to make towards the peace and stability of this region. They do not consider us to be an enemy. They consider us to be a protector of democracy in this region. That is why we are participating in this joint exercise with other countries -the Five Powers - in foreign territory. We are welcomed there, because we can contribute to the peace and stability of South-east Asia, in which all countries in this region are interested. Mr Lee Teck Him(In Mandarin): Sir, I am not satisfied with the reply given by the Minister. If war breaks out, will he dare to say the same thing about the defence of peace and security?”
“I think there is a possibility of doing it, and we are exploring every available avenue to give pre-University national servicemen some sort of academic training so that they can qualify for a year's credit when they join the University. As for the Member for Ulu Pandan, his argument on our defence capability is fantastic. I am not proud of him, either as a Singapore citizen or as a Member of Parliament. What he has suggested is a cowardly way out - that because we are too small, therefore, we cannot stand up against anybody. I say this: if we have the determination, we will stand up against the biggest country in this region. Some hon. Members: Hear, hear!”
“Moreover, the holding back of these 18-year olds in the pre-University classes for higher studies will be only for three years, after which they will come out from the armed forces. All this misconception of national service has arisen largely because it has just been implemented. There must be a time for these boys to fulfil their obligations, after which they will be churned out in the usual way. So, in actual fact, everything considered, there is only a withholding of three years. For those who join the University at the age of 18 or those who have the option to join after a period of time because they have passed their pre-University examination before reaching the age of 18, national service and service in the armed forces is a new obligation. But after this experience, I can guarantee Members that in five years' time, they will say, "We wished we had joined the Armed Forces at the age of 18 and then proceeded on to the University." Mark my words! I may not be here in five to ten years' time, but the majority of you will be here to witness it. I think that partly also answers the queries raised by the Member for Mountbatten. I did mention the word "self-reliance", but I do not know how he took it to mean. To me, self-reliance means you rely on your own self for everything. We have got to rely on our own selves for the defence of our country. The question whether it is possible to give academic tuition to pre-University students while they are doing their national service for three years is being gone into by the staff of both the Ministry of Science and Technology and my Ministry.”
“It is up to us, who have worked and thought long over this question, to decide what is the best age for national service. Then there was the allegation that, after national service of three years when they enrol for the University they will forget what they have learnt before. That is utter rubbish too. There are a large number of people including some Members here, who have had their education interrupted by the war. And we are not the only ones; millions of people in other countries have had their education interrupted by the Second World War. Yet because they had the will to pursue higher studies, they managed to graduate from the University. Half the Cabinet members here have had their education interrupted by the war. In fact, I would say that after two or three years in the army, our boys will be more mature, more sober and much steadier when they join the University, and the University will be a much better place for them. As for the argument that the University will be empty - I do not like to use the word "rubbish" again, but I am afraid I cannot find a better word to describe this nonsense - I think the Members who advance this argument have not read what I said. I said that among the 18-year olds, those who can win scholarships will be allowed to continue their studies in the University. And among the H.S.C. students there is quite a large number - about 700 to 800 - who will not have attained the age of 18 years when they pass the H.S.C. These students will be allowed to go into the University to continue their studies. So your Universities will not be empty, but will be filled with them.”
“This point must be understood: if you want to be a worthwhile Singaporean, and if you want to be proud of your country, it is time you accepted the fact that you have to assign a portion of your life to the defence of your country. We have thought very long over this question: what is the best time to call up these people? We have had conscription for slightly more than two years. From our experience and from the experience of those whom we know, we find that the age of 18 is the best age to conscript our youths. This is the time when we can inculcate in them a sense of loyalty, leadership, and dedication. We have drafted graduates from the Universities too, but the amount of trouble that we had from them is not commensurate with their number. When we first conscripted them sometime in 1968, the Chinese Chamber of Commerce sent a deputation to see me to give reasons why the graduates should not be conscripted. As a counter to their argument, I asked, "When do you think they should be conscripted?" They said, "Eighteen years of age." And 18 is the age when they pass their Higher School Certificate. So when I made the announcement some time ago that we would conscript youths at 18 years of age, there was a hue and cry from this group. And I said, "Give me your reasons why they should not be conscripted." But up till today they have neither come to see me nor have they sent in anything in writing. And I am still waiting. Because if they did come to me, what they could say would be contrary to what they had said in the first place. So there you are - a portion of the time of the young male citizens of Singapore must be spent in serving the country and to be trained for service to the country.”
“Coming to her unfinished comment on the trouble in paying pensioners, which arose out of the reorganisation of the office concerned, I agree with her that this was largely because not enough forethought was given by the officers to the problem. The change took place at a very unfortunate period, i.e., just before the Chinese New Year. This is an eye-opener to some of my officers, and they will now have to take into consideration certain factors which normally they will not take into consideration. This will make them more careful in future when implementing any change of policy. On the matter raised by the Member for Paya Lebar, I say that this is a very old story. We must understand that because we are now an independent country, the present generation of Singaporeans must be resigned to the fact and they must be willing, and must understand - that they have to spend a part of their lives in training for the defence of their country. Once that is understood, once that is expected of them, a Singaporean will feel proud that he has the opportunity that was denied to earlier generations to protect and shoulder arms for his country. By then all this little talk about inconvenience or hardship will disappear. Some hon. Members: Hear, hear!”
“Secondly, as I have so often repeated, time is needed to train an effective army. The Member reminds us of the heroes who sacrificed their lives during the Japanese invasion. Here is an excellent example of people who went to war partly trained. They were annihilated in no time. We would not like to be placed in such a position if and when the occasion arises. It is my duty and responsibility to see that all those who go through training in the armed forces have the capacity and ability to defend Singapore if the time comes. Therefore, the Member's proposition that we should give military training to school children is out. The Member for Ulu Pandan says that we will save money by giving military training to children in school. I do not understand how that can be done. For the information of Members, the money spent is not so much on training as on the weapons that we have to buy. That takes up most of the money spent in the M.I.D. 7.45 p.m. May I correct the Member for Delta on this point? All Singapore male citizens on attaining the age of 18 and not 21 years have to report to the Central Manpower Base for national service. As for her allegation that the sons of rich people have been able to get away with national service. I say that is utter rubbish. I would like to know who they are. I have heard of this, and have asked people who mentioned it, to me, "Give me their names, and I will find out how they escaped the dragnet." This allegation is utter rubbish, because it is our policy to see that everyone is treated equally, regardless of whether the boy's father is a multi-millionaire or a poor man. It is essential for the success of our scheme that no one is treated differently from the others.”
“Therefore, the absence in certain areas of work of the males for three years will not in any way give women an advantage. The Member also says that if we conscript the males, then in certain jobs the women will be ahead. They have the advantage of an earlier start. I do not think he has taken into consideration the fact that some time in the lives of women they get married, give birth, and rear children. Therefore, the fact that they are females and do give birth does have an in-built disadvantage as regards competing with men in work. So I do not think that the conscription of men into national service does give women any advantage. The Member for Sembawang also asked whether the Immigration (Amendment) Bill has had any results. We have not implemented this Bill yet because it is awaiting the President's Assent, and therefore it is too early for me to forecast what the results will be. To come to the Member for Delta; I think there is a misconception in what she said about our role in defence when the British leave. We can never, by any stretch of the imagination, fill the vacuum left by the accelerated British withdrawal. On our own, we can never play the role which the British has played here. From the numerical and financial points of view, it is impossible for us to fill that vacuum. The sooner we realise that, the better it is for us. We hope we will be able to contribute together with those nations of like mind in this area, towards preserving the peace and stability which all of us desire. The Member for Delta suggests that we can start training young students in school. It is not possible because, first and foremost, they are too young. Physically they will not be able to stand the rigorous training that is required in our armed forces.”
“I think the Member for Sembawang must realise that the success we have achieved in industrialisation, apart from other factors - the infrastructure that we have built, the good investment climate, the skills and energy of our workers - is also due to the fact that we are building up our own defence. We are becoming self-reliant. We are taking steps to make ourselves self- reliant, but I would not say that, by ourselves, we would be in a position to defend ourselves. I would say that we are taking steps, and because it is seen and known that we are taking steps, we are contributing towards the security of this region. Therefore, it is not all in vain that we are building up our armed forces. The second proposition of the Member for Sembawang is that we should consider conscripting the fair sex. I did say that we would consider it. In fact, I have considered it. I am a bit surprised that the usually gallant Member for Sembawang feels that women should not play a more important role than they are playing in Parliament. If he subscribes to the principle that there should be equality between men and women, I think he should welcome the fair sex here. If they have the capacity and ability, there is no reason why this Parliament should not be dominated by them. He says conscription of the males would give the females certain advantages. I do not believe this is so, because there are many other jobs for males. As far as I can see, nature ordains that certain jobs are best done by females and there are certain jobs best done by males. In other words, by virtue of their sex, there is already an ordained role for each sex, and there are certain jobs which women cannot do as well as men, no matter how loudly they protest that they are equal!”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, first, I would like to take up the three points raised by the Member for Sembawang. The first is a question. He wonders whether national service will affect industrial progress. I think it must be made very clear to Members that the shortage in skilled manpower would still exist if we had not started building up the armed forces. I agree that national service does aggravate the shortage, but it is only temporary. The effect that national service has on the shortage of skilled labour is very slight, because a man will be doing national service for only two or three years, depending upon whether he is an officer or a private. At the end of his national service, he will be discharged with skills acquired in the armed forces. In other words, he is available to the labour market. Therefore, what national service has done is to withhold labour from the labour market for a period of only two years or three years. It is a temporary shortage and the effect is not, as the Member for Paya Lebar implies, an adverse one. In fact, it is possible that when a Singapore citizen is conscripted at 18 years of age for national service, he has no skill at all. He will acquire some skill during his training. In other words, he is being trained, so that by the time he is discharged from national service, he will be a semi-skilled or a skilled worker. I think this point must be made perfectly clear - that the shortage of skilled labour would have been there even if we had no conscription. The shortage, on account of national service, is only temporary. It is a delay, in making labour available to the private sector. I hope this is clear to Back-benchers.”