Lim Kim San
Singapore
“Mr Speaker, Sir, the Public Utilities Board's investigation shows that the residents of Pulau Ubin are unwilling to pay higher prices due to higher operating costs, thereby causing the contractor to cease operations. It was explained to the hon.”
“Sir, I understand the Member's point, but I hope he realises that six months after serving notice, the pigs will still be defecating freely which will continue to contaminate our water.”
“Sir, if anyone should get sick from coming into contact with contaminated water, I hope they will accept sympathy from the Member for Jurong. But we cannot evaluate the danger to human life in terms of dollars and cents. The farmers have known for several years now that pig-rearing will have to be phased out of the catchment areas.”
“Sir, all I can say is that we are still looking into the feasibility of siting a coal-fired station on one of the islands to reduce the pollution problem. But no definite decision has yet been made. We have several offers to do a feasibility study on it, and we are looking closely into the matter. 5.45 p.m.”
“Merit Scholar- Merit Courses ships Bursaries Medicine/ Dentistry 44 41 Engineering 28 22 Architecture/ Building/ Estate Management 6 18 Accountancy/ Business Administration 9 14 Arts/Social Science/Law 32 40 Science (includes Pharmacy) 82 102 ___ ___ 201 237 === === Sir, I believe the hon.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, air pollution is being monitored daily by the Anti- Pollution Unit, and we find that the air pollution in industrial estates and the urban areas is normally higher than in the residential or rural areas.”
The complete record
Every one of 1,111 lines we hold for Lim Kim San, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 2 of 23.
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I have been asked by the Prime Minister to reply on his behalf to the observations made by the Member for Kampong Kembangan. I agree with him on the important role administrative officers play in the Government and the calibre of officers we should have. The Government has given due consideration to some of the recommendations made in the report which the Hon. Member mentioned. An example is the concept of using a special task force to tackle problems faced by Ministries. Hon. Members must be aware that a task force led by the Deputy Prime Minister has been working at the Ministry of Education studying the problems facing the Ministry. This report is expected to be ready by 16th March. 3.15 p.m. The Member for Kampong Kembangan has given a detailed account of the importance of the Administrative Service. Its members occupy critical positions in the Ministries and departments of the Government. They help the political leadership in formulating, reviewing and implementing policies. They therefore constitute the leadership in the Civil Service. Advice and assistance from the Administrative Service are indispensable to the political leadership. Appointment to the Service requires at least a good honours degree. This minimum entry requirement ensures that only officers of calibre are recruited. The Member remarked about the imbalance in rewards received by talented officers in the public service and those in the private sector. To recruit the best and retain them in the public service, the salary scheme and promotion prospects should be comparable with the private sector. There was a salary review not long ago and another review will be undertaken to provide monetary rewards competitive with the private sector.”
“I think it is very dangerous for him to make the allegation that between Intraco and the NTUC Welcome there is something funny going on. If he were to look closely at the accounts of the NTUC Welcome, he will find that last year in spite of a turnover of $40 million, the trading profit was 0.68%. Does that mean that there is a big mark-up? If he wants to compare it with the trading accounts of similar bodies, the operating expenses amounted to about 10% of the turnover. I do not look after every detail of the NTUC Welcome. But I do make it a point to see that it charges fair prices. He has asked why it is necessary to have fair price shops. It is necessary to have fair price shops because there should be a large network of retail outlets in Singapore to prevent profiteering if it should ever arise. As for the details of that meeting, I do not know how he could get the impression that the NTUC Welcome could ever pressurise anybody. The NTUC Welcome is not a statutory body. It holds no clout at all. I understand, reliably, that there was no mention by representatives of the NTUC Welcome that they wanted to see the prices raised. In fact, it is the NTUC Welcome's policy to see that the prices for daily essentials are as low as possible and that the consumers should be charged fair prices. I think he is going a bit too far in saying that Intraco and the NTUC Welcome are in collusion to charge higher prices for better profit or for other ulterior motives.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I am the Chairman of the Board of Trustees of Welcome. I cannot listen to what has been said without standing up and making some comments on the observations made by the hon. Member for Whampoa. I must confess that I do not know the details of the meeting and so on which he mentioned. But I do know that the NTUC Welcome was set up to combat profiteering and to see that the public of Singapore do get fair prices for essential goods. During the five years of its existence, I think the NTUC Welcome has done that. We have been able to maintain and stabilise prices for essential goods. The Member for Whampoa is shaking his head. I do not have the details, but if he wants, I can definitely show him in what way we have done that.”
“Mr Teong Eng Siong asked the Minister for National Development and Communications if he will request the Singapore Bus Service (1978) Limited to provide special buses for students so as to enable the large number of such commuters to reach school and get home quicker. The Acting Minister for Culture and Senior Minister of State for Communications (Mr Ong Teng Cheong) (for the Minister for National Development and Communications): Sir, I am afraid I cannot follow the logic of the question raised by the hon. Member for Sembawang. In March 1974, we had to allow school buses to operate during peak hours under the Supplementary Public Transport Service Scheme because SBS was unable to cope with the increasing demand for public transport. Today, there are still many other areas where more buses are required. The priority is to provide an acceptable level of service to the commuters at large. It will be a regressive step if I were to ask SBS (1978) to supplement school buses by setting aside special buses for students. Therefore, I do not propose to ask SBS (1978) to provide special buses just for students alone. Mr Teong Eng Siong (Sembawang)( In Mandarin): Sir, although we have these supplementary buses for students, they are not adequate and the fares charged are quite high and are beyond the reach of poor families. I would like the Minister to reconsider this question of providing special buses for students from poor families, who have to wait until 7.00 or 8.00 o'clock for buses and are invariably late for school.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, pedestrians are not able and should not cross Mountbatten Road in front of Katong Shopping Centre as there is a railing on the centre divider of the road at this location. Our observations show that the majority of them cross at the designated pedestrian crossing at the signalised junction of Mountbatten Road and Haig Road. This is only 100 metres away from the main entrance and 40 metres away from the side entrance of Katong Shopping Centre. There is, therefore, no need for a pedestrian bridge across Mountbatten Road in front of Katong Shopping Centre. ONE-ROOM FLATS IN JALAN BATU (Conversion) 16. Mr Teo Chong Tee asked the Minister for National Development and Communications (a) how many blocks of one-room flats in Jalan Batu have been earmarked for conversion; (b) what is the present occupancy rate in those flats; (c) have the people affected been offered priority in the allocation of alternative accommodation in other housing estates; and (d) when the conversion exercise is expected to commence and when will it be completed. Mr Lim Kim San: Mr Speaker, Sir, in answer to (a), in Jalan Batu, there are two 12-storey blocks. One consists of 651 units of 1-room flats, 10 units of 2-room flats, and 33 shophouses. The other consists of 651 units of one-room flats, 16 units of 2-room flats, 27 shophouses and one community centre. (b) The present occupancy rate of the two blocks of flats is 90%. The vacant flats have not been re-let because of the impending conversion. (c) Families affected by the conversion scheme will be accorded priority in the allocation of alternative accommodation. (d) Conversion of the two blocks of flats is likely to take place in the next two years. SPECIAL BUSES FOR STUDENTS 17.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, two traffic signals are being installed at Lorong 1, Toa Payoh - one at the existing zebra crossing and the other at its junction with Toa Payoh Rise. These traffic signals will enable pedestrians to cross the road at these two points. In addition, the signal lights will create traffic gaps and will thus assist pedestrians crossing Lorong 1 near Blocks 157 and 158. Observations carried out at Lorong 1, Toa Payoh, near Blocks 157 and 158, show that pedestrians are able to cross the road without difficulty. At present, there is no need for a pedestrian crossing at this location. However, the PWD will keep the situation under review. HOUSING AND DEVELOPMENT BOARD (Employment of part-time petition writers) 14. Mr Cheong Yuen Chee asked the Minister for National Development and Communications whether he will ask the Housing and Development Board to consider employing part-time petition writers to assist applicants of HDB flats to fill in their application forms. Mr Lim Kim San: Mr Speaker, Sir, it is not practical to have petition writers in the Sales and Lettings Sections because applicants usually need the help of members of their families to provide accurate personal particulars of themselves. Applicants who find difficulty in completing the forms can seek clarification or assistance from officers of the Sales and Lettings Sections. KATONG SHOPPING CENTRE (Overhead pedestrian bridge) 15. Mr Teo Chong Tee asked the Minister for National Development and Communications whether he will consider the building of an overhead pedestrian bridge in front of the Katong Shopping Centre as pedestrians are presently taking risks when they are crossing the busy Mountbatten Road.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, it would be very costly to provide transparent doors for the 3,230 lifts at HDB estates. It is doubtful if transparent doors will deter lift criminals since these criminals are often skilled enough to jam the lift car in between landings. However, the Board is exploring the possibility of installing a device that will sound the lift alarm bell automatically when anyone attempts to force open the lift car doors in between landings to stop the lift car. This automatic device is a more effective and economical means of deterring criminal activities in lifts. TOA PAYOH, LORONG 1 (Pedestrian crossing) 13. Mr Cheong Yuen Chee asked the Minister for National Development and Communications whether he will ask the Public Works Department to consider providing a pedestrian crossing at Lorong 1, Toa Payoh, opposite Blocks 158 and 157.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, the Board has considered manning lifts in HDB estates but found the practice to be both costly and impractical. Based on present requirements, a total of 6,500 attendants costing $23 million a year would be required if each of the 3,230 lifts were to be manned for two shifts. Not only are the costs prohibitive, but it may also be difficult to recruit the manpower in view of the tight labour situation. However, there is nothing like helping yourselves. "God will help those who help themselves." In some estates such as Sims Drive, Toa Payoh East and Farrer Road, residents have on their own initiative engaged lift attendants and have obtained HDB's assistance in training them. The Board is always willing to provide training to lift attendants employed by residents of other estates. HOUSING AND DEVELOPMENT BOARD FLATS (Fixing of transparent lift doors) 12. Mr Yeo Choo Kok asked the Minister for National Development and Communications whether the Housing and Development Board will consider fixing transparent doors to lifts in HDB flats as a deterrent against the commission of crimes inside the lifts.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, the Mount Faber Park facing Henderson Road is generally steep and of hard rock. Access to the Park is by a flight of steps from the Telok Blangah Way/Henderson Road junction. To increase access to the Park, the Parks and Recreation Department will consult engineers on the possibility of constructing another flight of steps to the Park from behind the bus stop just after the Telok Blangah Drive/Henderson Road junction. HDB FLATS IN TELOK BLANGAH CONSTITUENCY 10. Mr Ahmad Haleem asked the Minister for National Development and Communications whether the Housing and Development Board will be building any more flats in Telok Blangah Constituency. Mr Lim Kim San: Mr Speaker, Sir, no major new construction programme for flats in the constituency is under consideration at the moment. HOUSING AND DEVELOPMENT BOARD FLATS (Employment of lift attendants) 11. Mr Ch'ng Jit Koon asked the Minister for National Development and Communications whether the Housing and Development Board will consider engaging lift attendants to man the lifts in HDB flats.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, the answer is yes. The Board will be providing a separate open court for sepak takraw, volley ball or badminton. MOUNT FABER (Construction of steps from Henderson Road) 9. Mr Ahmad Haleem asked the Minister for National Development and Communications whether he will consider building steps from Henderson Road going up the slope of Mount Faber between Telok Blangah Heights and Telok Blangah Drive.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, three U-turns have already been provided along New Upper Changi Road. Two of these are for Changi bound traffic and they are at the junctions of New Upper Changi Road with Bedok South Avenue 3 and Bedok Road. The other is for city-bound traffic at the junction of New Upper Changi Road with Bedok North Avenue 1. These U-turns are all placed at signalised junctions so that U-turns can be executed with minimum disruption to traffic flow along New Upper Changi Road. To improve access to Bedok North by traffic from Changi, the PWD will install traffic signals at the junction of New Upper Changi Road/Bedok North Road in September 1978. Extra U-turns are therefore not warranted. HAIG ROAD HOUSING ESTATE (Additional open court for sepak takraw) 8. Haji Rahmat bin Kenap asked the Minister for National Development and Communications if the Housing and Development Board will consider constructing an additional open court for sepak takraw on the open grass space available at the Haig Road Housing Estate as early as possible as quarrels and fights have taken place over the use of the existing multi-purpose open court for basketball and sepak takraw between Blocks 5 and 8 in spite of the weekly programmes organised by the Constituency Sports Committee and Citizens' Consultative Committee.”
“Haji Sha'ari bin Tadin asked the Minister for National Development and Communications if the relevant authority will consider permitting a U-turn at the junction of Bedok South Avenue 1 and New Upper Changi Road to allow city-bound traffic from - Changi to make the necessary U-turn to go to Bedok North; or, if not, whether it will consider the feasibility of providing a filter road at the junction and U-turns along New Upper Changi Road opposite Apartment Block 29 and Bedok New Town Centre to enable motorists coming from the city and Changi to make the necessary U-turns.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, different types of shops are built to cater for different trades affected by resettlement in the Central Area, e.g. shopping and office complexes, industrial workshops, wholesale market, etc. There are shops of different sizes to cater for the different requirements of resettlement cases. Those who want bigger premises can have more than one unit to meet their needs. But I must qualify this by saying that a resettlement case is entitled to rental concession for the number of shops owned or occupied prior to clearance, i.e. if a resettled case owns two shops previously, he will be entitled to rental concession for two shops upon clearance. However, market rental will be charged for additional units over and above what his entitlement is. HDB FLATS DAMAGED BY FIRES 6. Mr Lee Yiok Seng asked the Minister for National Development and Communications whether the Housing and Development Board will accept responsibility to restore to their original condition flats which have been damaged by accidental fires. Mr Lim Kim San: Mr Speaker, Sir, in the event of a fire damaging a HDB flat due to natural causes or where liability cannot be established, the Board will bear the responsibility to restore the flat to its original condition without charge. However, if it is found that the lessee or tenant is liable for the cause of the fire, such as using the flat for storage of combustible material, then he will be held responsible for the cost of repairs. BEDOK SOUTH AVENUE 1/NEW UPPER CHANGI ROAD (U-turn/filter road) 7.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, the lighting at the Haig Road Cooked Food Centre is switched on daily from 6.30 p.m. to 1.00 a.m. Between 1.00 a.m. and 6.00 a.m., only a few lighting points in the interior are switched on as the periphery of the Centre borders Geylang Road and Haig Road which are quite well-lit by street lights from 6.30 p.m. to 6.30 a.m. However, in view of the enquiry, we will carry out a survey to ascertain the need for additional lighting. A standard number of fans are already provided at the Centre. A check will be made to find out whether there is a need for more ceiling fans. The Board has already made arrangement to provide some fans at the Block 13 Market. HDB SHOP PREMISES FOR RESETTLEMENT CASES 5. Mr Teong Eng Siong asked the Minister for National Development and Communications whether the authority plans to build various types of shop premises for those affected by urban renewal projects, e.g. bigger shops for wholesale dealers.”
“As I said, I do not know how many of them do want to finish their flats. Here again, if we were to agree to that there is every chance that some hon. Members will say, "Why could we not even complete the flats? Why must the finishing be done by us? We pay and so we expect to walk in and see a completed flat. But here we are given jagged rocks as the floor!" There are many views to it. As there are 30,000 units of flats there will be 30,000 different views.”
“I have not yet replied to the Member for Kallang. The Member said that from his observation about 70% of the flat owners want to re-do their flats. I am not sure, and I do not know. But if 70% of them want to re-do their flats, which means 21,000 units, the question is which unit must we finish and which unit must we leave uncompleted with regard to flooring and tiling. How long will it take before they reply? What son of questionnaire have we got to send out? Mr Dhanabalan rose -”
“Yes, of course, they are allowed to apply. I never said that they are not allowed to apply.”
“Sir, I said that they should not be given further priority in their application, but I did not say that they are not allowed to apply for Housing Board flats.”
“They are given farms. And our policy is not to encourage large families. Therefore, there is no reason why large families should be given additional priority for HDB flats. The general policy here is not to encourage large families. In fact, heads of large families should be penalised for having large families, I understand what he means. They already have large families. They are staying in farms and have been given priority on resettlement. They cannot be given further priority. That is the end of it.”
“If they have grown affluent during their tenancy, good luck to them. But when it comes to applying for purchase or rental of HDB flats subsequently, then the general rule applies. So there is no contradiction here. The Member for Punggol requests that large farming families be given priority in applying for HDB flats. They have already been given priority when they are resettled. They are given farms.”
“Sir, I never understood sarcasm. I always take it that hon. Members are very straightforward in their dealings with me. But, Sir, I will take up the matter of awnings with the HDB again. I do not understand the Member for Khe Bong. I never said that we are out to kill private developers. I said that if we were to have a policy of selling shophouses, this will discourage further private development. That is my contention. That is why we have not changed the policy at all. Members will notice that we do sell residential flats. But when the HDB sells residential flats, it sells the units in a whole block. This is for the convenience of management. For instance, it will be difficult from the management point of view to sell only part of a block of shop-houses to resettled cases. Anyway, this is a major policy matter and the policy now is not to sell the shophouses. If the Member for Potong Pasir really feels that Lorong 8 is in such a bad state, he should write a letter to the H D B, drawing the Board's attention to it. I am sure it is always wiser to maintain a property than to let it deteriorate and to have to undertake major maintenance later on. As to the Members for Telok Blangah and Toa Payoh, the rules are quite flexible with regard to the question of income limitation. Where a case can be made about hardship or desirability, then the Allocations Committee will consider whether an exception can be made. There are no contradictions here with regard to tenants who have grown in affluence and are allowed to stay in HDB flats. Just because their monthly income exceeds the income limit, they are not allowed to purchase the flats. Here, I think that it is because they are sitting tenants that we do not evict them.”
“It is quite simple, Sir. I will pull it down myself! I have done that. Years ago in the ulu I saw someone cleaning his car with water from a hose. That was before the days of water rationing and "Save Water" campaigns. I went up to him and just snatched the hose off his hands. In this instance, if the Member likes, he can pull it down. But he must be very careful to make sure it does not support any electric cables, otherwise we would lose a Member! Sir, I am glad that the Member for Whampoa, in his contact with the HDB, has found something educational, even though it is a matter of colour.”
“We should first learn from the experience we have gained. If it is still necessary, then we may pass an Act to control development of commercial and industrial properties. However, we will take up the suggestion made that probably some son of control could be enforced through urban renewal. The Member for Punggol wants to know why his constituency has what he calls a rural centre. Sir, I have not been to the rural centre. I think it is a now project. The shops are not there just yet probably because there are already shops nearby. As I said, it is the policy for a centre to be self-contained. There must be very good reasons why shops have not been built in this farming area. Offhand I would not be able to tell the reasons why shops have not yet been established or built in this estate. However, if the Member could submit a question for oral answer, I may be able to satisfy him on this matter. These are details in planning. I would expect that by the time the development of the whole area is completed there would be the usual facilities, shops etc. Members have ranged over quite a large number of subjects. I hope I have replied satisfactorily to them. I may have left some out. If I had, could Members please bring them to my attention and I shall try and answer them.”
“As I said, I am not going to bring up the matter of Lorong 8. In general, I do not think one can expect the dustbin centre to be as clean as Lorong 8 itself. I regret to say that I do not know why the HDB leaves a solitary wooden lamp post at Lorong 8. If the Member wants to know, he should submit a question for oral answer. We will consider the request to build shelters for parking of motorcycles. As regards public relations between the HUDC and members of the public, it has always been the policy of every Ministry to improve its relationship with members of the public. I do not know what incident the Member has in mind. It could possibly be letters about repairs or dissatisfaction with HUDC flats which came after the matters have been discussed with the complainant. I do not know what are the actual incidents. But let me say categorically that it is the policy of every Ministry and I think it is the policy of hon. Members to encourage better public relations between Government departments and the public. We will continue to stress on better public relations. The Member for Kallang stated very clearly why the Housing Developers (Control and Licensing) Act was promulgated and what were the salient features. I think it is desirable to allow things to carry on without Government interference if possible. But where control is necessary, we will exercise it as in the case of the housing developers. In enforcing this Act, we are running into a lot of teething problems. I do not think we should rush in again without first learning more from the experience of enforcing the Housing Developers (Control and Licensing) Act. We should not rush in and enact a new Act to control development of commercial and industrial properties.”
“If the Member asks for it. As regards transfer to bigger flats, it is always possible for those who rent or own small flats to transfer to bigger flats. For purchased flats, they must have occupied the flat for at least five years and for rented flats, they must have occupied the flat for at least two years. That is roughly the rule that I can remember and I do not think there has been any change. Stallholders will be permitted to transfer to stalls nearer their new homes if the stalls am available. Those who find that their business is not profitable after six months may be allowed a transfer if stalls in the desired location are available. As regards the difficulty in inheriting Housing Board properties from parents who die, I think this is something which the Housing Board cannot expedite because they have to conform to certain legal technicalities. If beneficiaries can comply with legal requirements there would then be no problem. With regard to raising the rent of shop-houses on transfer, I think it is fair. Out of the 8,000-odd shops under the management of the HDB, more than half were rented out at relatively low rents. They were rented out before stagflation. Some were rented a few years ago and some recently. We have not raised the rents of all these shophouses, which are very cheap compared to the present rates. So if a now partner were to come in, or should there be a transfer, I think it is fair to raise the rent. Applicants for new HDB shops have to tender at ruling rentals. New partners or transferees are new tenants of HDB shops and even if the rent is raised for them, it is unlikely to be as much or more than those paid by the successful tenderers of new HDB shops. Coming to the Member for Potong Pasir.”
“However, we will give the matter some consideration. The Member for Boon Teck has given us some illustrations of real hardship or borderline cases of hardship. The Member need not worry. Although we have rules, we are flexible. There is an Allocations Committee to consider cases of hardship such as those mentioned by the Member, and, if necessary the rules can be waived. Rules are made for men, and not the other way round. 7.15 p.m. The Member for Toa Payoh has made some comments regarding the tender system and high rentals. I believe he had Metro in mind. He wanted to know how Metro was able to retender and get it again very quickly. He knows very well that it was a risk which Metro took. They gave the usual notice of termination. The HDB did not waste time. A month's delay in getting a tenant means a loss of $20,000 or so. The HDB advertised the moment it received notice of termination, so that by the time Metro vacated the premises HDB would have a new tenant. That is the reason why it was done so quickly. I think the Member should congratulate the HDB for its efficiency. As regards the previous and present rentals, these are details which I cannot now recall. I do not look into these details.”
“It is therefore not true to say that because of the income ceiling of $1,500 many people are not eligible to buy a HDB flat. We also found that more than 50% of those who purchase HDB flats are families with a total income of under $2,000 per month. Another survey was made to find out how many of those people with an income of $1,500 or just above $1,500 wanted to purchase flats. We found that it was only 5%. Members will agree with me that rules are made to cater for the majority and not the minority of the people. Perhaps with the present proposal to upgrade the quality and standard of Housing Board flats, which surely will cost more, we may have to raise the income ceiling slightly above $1,500. This is under consideration. I am not making any commitment just now. The Member for Telok Blangah made the suggestion that purchasers should be allowed the option to choose the kind of finishings they want, instead of breaking up the standard finishings. Members must understand that we are building flats on a very large scale. Administratively it will be difficult to cater to individual tastes. We have not made a study yet, but I think we should make a study to find out what percentage of the owners do really break up the floors to have finishings of their own choice. But it does mean that a lot of administrative work is involved if we are to cater to individual tastes. Even in the costly private housing development, most of the finishings for flooring and kitchen are done by the developers. So the Member's suggestion is quite a departure from normal practice. Considering that the HDB is building 30,000 units a year. to allow 30,000 families to choose finishings of their own choice will mean a massive operation requiring very careful planning and thinking.”
“We will remove the slum areas in good time. There are priorities. We have removed a lot of them. We will be removing many more. When the time comes to remove the slum areas in his constituency, we will do so. The Member for Bedok is most happy that all his requests have been met except the one on playing fields. There must be some very good reasons for not providing his constituency with a playing field. I am not able to remember why every little lorong is dirty, a bridge removed, or a playing field not provided. But there must be very good reasons for this. As I have said, it is the policy of the Housing Board to make every town self-contained, and with its own playing field if possible. So, in reply to the Member for Punggol, if there is space we will build the playing field when the time comes. Regarding the question of urinals, a survey has been made. In the planning of a town or a neighbourhood, sufficient urinals are provided for in the markets, shops and other public places. Even if we were to provide urinals next to the lifts, we will still find children urinating in the lifts if their attitude and behaviour remain unchanged. This can only be corrected through education and through the inculcation of good habits. As far as the planners are concerned, they are quite satisfied that enough toilet facilities are being provided in each neighbourhood and each town. There is also the question of those who want to buy HDB flats but are unable to do so because of the income ceiling. We have found that the average monthly household income of a HDB flat purchaser is about $845. There is, therefore, still a wide gap between that figure and the ceiling of $1,500.”
“That is exactly the trouble, Sir. The owners would not sign. We cannot do anything. That is the legal position. But I cannot tell the tenants, "You sign, and I will allow you to carry out the repairs." That is against the law.”
“I think he must know where these departments are. Any one who knows where these two departments are, will not get lost. Even if he does not know, he will not get lost because DCD is on the fourth floor of the National Development Building and the Planning Department is on the fifth floor. If a person were to go to the Planning Department when he should go to the DCD, he will be directed to the proper place. So it is either one floor up or one floor down. There is no question of getting lost. I think on the whole people do understand the different functions of these two departments. I will not waste the time of this House by saying exactly the same things which I had said the last time. The hon. Member knows that we have been trying to clear the slums. There are many slum areas in Singapore. We have cleared many of them but there are some left. One of them is the area which the Member has referred to. Very soon a road will be constructed through that area. I do not know yet how soon it will be. In the meanwhile, housing inspectors are discouraging tenants from spending too much money on renovations because later on they would have to move out. When that happens, the hon. Member will come here and complain loudly to the House. But if the repairs are minor, I see no reason why they should not be allowed to do so. But where the repairs to be undertaken require the signature of approval of the owner, then the DCD has no control. That is the law. If you own a piece of land and someone wants to build a house on it, he has to ask your permission.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have heard from the Member for Henderson that a large number of shops are empty because of high rentals. The HDB has under its management 8,000 shops. Only 3% ,move out from time to time because of old age or because of migration as in the case of doctors. In Rochore estate, of the 172 shops occupied five have terminated their tenancy. That is about 3%. Strangely enough, those who terminated their tenancy are not those who pay rents ranging from $2,000 to $4,300 but those who pay rents ranging from $800 to $1,400. So termination of tenancy is not due to the high rent but sheer inefficiency or bad business management on the part of the shopkeeper. Until another system is found, the present tender system will continue. It is not perfect, but we have not yet found a suitable substitute. With regard to the question of assisting old folks, the Member for Henderson wants deeds, not words. The rentals for the one-room flats are already subsidised. Yet for the old folks' homes, the rentals are lower than the normal rents. Here is concrete proof that we are already helping them. I think it is a good policy to involve members of the community in assisting to look after old people. Now, regarding the question of allowing tenants in old Housing Board estates to construct awnings to shelter them from the rain and sun, my information is that they were once allowed to do so. But what happened? The awnings became an eye-sore as they were badly maintained. That is why residents are not permitted to put up their own awnings now. The Member for Anson, my good friend, has raised the question of people not understanding the functions of the Planning Department and the Development Control Division. He seems to know quite a lot of the workings of these departments.”
“Another illustration is that the resettled shopkeepers along the same row of shops in the same estate who are doing the same business are paying 50% of the rent which the others are paying. Their prices are not much lower. As the Member has said, it may be because a larger proportion of the hawkers are charging higher prices. So these shopkeepers say, "Why do we not charge more?" That is a theory. But what I am telling him is a fact.”
“I am not generalising, Sir, but the hon. Member is. What I am stating is a statement of fact. What he is stating is theory, that if prices are lowered there will be competition and every hawker will sell at lower prices. This is only theory.”
“Nearby there is a similar row of shophouses with rent four times as high. Traders who occupy shops at the rental of $150 per month are not selling goods any cheaper than those paying four times as much. I can give another illustration. The hawkers in the PUB canteen are paying between $100 and $200 per stall per month. Close-by, at Somerset House, as well as the building opposite, there are hawkers paying eight times as much rent, i.e. as high as $800 per month. The hawkers at the Orchard Road car park are paying only about $50 per stall. The car park hawkers and the PUB hawkers are not charging cheaper prices than the hawkers who are paying rent about five to ten times more. [Interruption] The shops in town which are under rent control are not selling goods cheaper than shops in the shopping areas.”
“The tender system has been in existence for a long, long time. But because of the recurring criticisms levelled at the HDB, a thorough analysis of the tender system was made. Although the system is not perfect, it is not guilty of the shortcomings mentioned above. In the allocation of shops in HDB estates, the Shops Committee takes into consideration the needs of the residents and selects tenders to provide as wide a range of trades as possible. It is the objective of the HDB to make each housing estate or new town as self-contained as possible, with a comprehensive range of service. Tenders are called according to trade categories and allocations are made to the highest bidder in each trade category. In other words, a hairdresser will compete among hairdressers, and a tailor will compete among tailors. He does not compete against other trades such as coffee shop when tendering. Hon. Members have noticed that certain trades such as plumbers and electrical maintenance and repair shops are missing in some HDB estates. This has led some Members into believing that the tender system has prevented these traders from establishing themselves in HDB estates. This is not so. The main reason is that the HDB has a maintenance unit which does repair jobs very cheaply and therefore these tradesmen find that it is not worth their while to have shops in HDB estates. It has also been incorrectly assumed that lower rentals will bring about lower prices. Some people believe that if the rent is low, the goods and services will cost less. In actual fact, there is no such guarantee. The benefits of lower rentals in most cases are not passed on to consumers. For instance, in Alexandra estate, there is a row of shop-houses which was completed almost 20 years ago. The rent is $150 per month.”
“Sir, I shall comment on the observation made by the hon. Member for Khe Bong first. He proposes that the H D B should sell shops to the resettled shop-keepers. This is a question of major policy. We sell houses to the citizens in the pursuit of a house-owning democracy. Are we going a step further and sell shophouses to shop-keepers? As it is, we are building flats on a massive scale to provide housing for the lower income group. In addition, the HUDC is building better class housing for our executives and the middle income group. As a result private entrepreneurs are now discouraged from undertaking residential development. Should we now go a step further and allow HDB to develop and sell commercial properties? To do so is a major change in policy. And if we do, we will kill all private development for commercial and industrial housing. My view is that the Government on its own should not and could not undertake all the property development that is required. The policy now is not to sell shophouses. We only sell residential flats. I come now to the Member for Anson and the Member for Toa Payoh, I am grateful to them for giving me the opportunity to expand a bit on the tender system for the HDB shops. There has been a lot of misunderstanding of the tender system. On the whole, two main points of criticism have been directed at the HDB shop tender system. One is that the competitive tender system does not permit the smaller service trades, like tailoring, hair-dressing, pharmacy and electrical services, a chance of obtaining shops in the housing estates. The tender system is said to have destroyed the small businessmen. The other undesirable effect of the tender system is the allegation that it leads to shopkeepers charging higher prices.”
“Sir, why did the HDB move this particular bridge? It is impossible for me to keep track of all the bridges that the HDB is moving or the PWD is building.”
“Point of clarification, Sir. I did not interrupt until the Member had posed the question: When will this be done, or is this being done? It was only then that I interrupted. If he had just said, "Lorong 8 is dirty and there is poor maintenance". then I would tell him that the policy is to keep the place as clean as possible.”
“If the Member is talking on maintenance in general, I think it is all right. But if he talks specifically about Lorong 8, it will be very difficult for me to answer him. There are hundreds of Lorongs in each new town. And if all the Members are going to talk on Lorong 1, Lorong 3, Lorong 8 and so on, then I am lost! Some hon. Members: You are right.”
“Thank you, Sir. After having listened to quite a number of Members who have spoken, I would like to reply generally on matters of policy so that Members could perhaps be clearer in their minds as to what the policies are. If they still have any doubts about certain specific items which they have raised, then if the opportunity should arise, they could probably raise them later on. But 1st me inform Members that I am confining my reply to policy matters only.”
“Sir, the amendment is on item 1100, Political Appointments, under which there should be a discussion of policy. But if Members go on to specific subjects, it will be impossible for me to reply to all the points raised.”
“Sir, it is precisely for the reasons stated by the Member for Potong Pasir that we are hesitating, and I am taking my time to think over the matter.”
“Sir, we have been trying to clear pigs from the Kranji area and we have a programme. We have not been able to stick to that programme really. In this instance, I am afraid I am unable to give him any indication. I can only assure the Member that we are really looking seriously into the matter and will try to provide recreational facilities wherever possible.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I think Members are aware that from time to time we promote campaigns to keep our water clean. Members are also aware that whenever human beings congregate, there is bound to be pollution. I am wondering whether it is right to say that some water sports do not cause pollution. However, in spite of that, Members must be aware that the PUB has allowed organised groups to do canoeing and boating in MacRitchie Reservoir. We have also been asked by the Prime Minister to seriously consider whether the other reservoirs could be opened to the public for recreation. We have found that it is not possible to use Seletar Reservoir for this purpose. Except for a small arm of the Reservoir, the rest is covered by 140 fish cages for the breeding of fish to help keep the Reservoir clean. I do not know whether it is possible to allow for some recreational facilities in the Pandan and Kranji Reservoirs. But it will have to be heavily controlled because the water in these two reservoirs are not as sweet as the water in MacRitchie or Upper Peirce Reservoirs and, therefore, any contamination or pollution will make water treatment more difficult and costly. We will look into the possibility of requesting the Singapore Sports Council to manage and control any recreational activities which may be allowed in these reservoirs. However, as I said, our chief priority here is to make sure that there is no further contamination of the already heavily polluted water. I am not able to give an answer straightaway whether these recreational facilities will be allowed in these two reservoirs. But we are looking into its feasibility and probably sometime later I may be able to make a decision.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I am very surprised to hear that. It is an oversight on my part. Members know that when a member of the public damages public property he is made to pay. In this instance, the contractor is made to pay any damage to the cable that has been caused, in addition to being barred in future.”
“However, if the estimate is $50 in one month it cannot be $100 in the next month's bill. The estimate should be reasonable, increasing perhaps from $50 to $55 or to $60. I think there are some PUB officers here listening to this debate; perhaps when they go back they can tell their men to instruct the meter readers to carry out their work properly.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, if the PUB had not been working very closely with the manufacturing sector, we would not have been able to put up such a network of utility services to cater for the tremendous increase in demand. I believe that at the moment there is a committee comprising engineers from the PUB and representatives from the Singapore Manufacturers' Association to iron out any problems that may arise. This has been going on all the time. It is not possible for us to discuss the problems here, but obviously in the setting up of industries and supplying them with high tension electricity, there are a lot of technical problems which have to be ironed out, and they are being ironed out by the technical representatives of the manufacturers concerned as well as by the PUB. In fact, we will very soon have a member of the Singapore Manufacturers' Association on the Board of the PUB. I am really very surprised to hear suddenly that the PUB has not been catering to consumers' demand. As I have said, perhaps the manufacturers just want to pass the buck. I do not know the details of this particular case. But from the Member's description that the company was unable to meet its shipment schedule because of the inability of the PUB to work on that Sunday to replace a cable, it shows that the company has not been careful in its planning. Mr Teong Eng Siong (Sembawang)( In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, now that the climate is milder, I would like to raise some questions. I have received many complaints from my electorate that the amounts in their PUB bills fluctuate as much as 100%. Why is this so? I think the reason is that the meter readers do not read the meters. They would just write down the number according to their own estimate.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, we do carry out tests daily to maintain the quality of potable water. About 30 odd tests are carried out daily on raw water and about 50 tests are carried out daily as a matter of routine on treated water. In fact, if Members should ever visit a treatment plant, they will not fail to notice a small aquarium somewhere around the plant, with fish swimming in it and through which treated water will pass. If there is anything toxic in the water, the fish will die. That is the first signal that something is wrong. Every fortnight we do take about 800 samples from the various reservoirs to assess the quality of the water. The tests that are being made both on raw and treated water will be for alum residual, chlorine residual for colour and, last but not least, for bacterial content. But if the Member for Potong Pasir wants to know the technical terms, perhaps he can submit a question for a written answer and I will give him all the technical terms which my officers can churn out, like nitrogen, oxygen, pH, alkalinity, salinity, chloride, but offhand I will not be able to give him the whole works. Mr Phey Yew Kok: Mr Speaker, Sir, in view of our success in industrialisation, the number of industrial establishments has increased over the last ten years. There is therefore definitely a need to create an industrial section whereby this particular sector of our industries can be taken care of so that we can promote a better industrial climate. I have mentioned just now that there are five companies which have the same problems, not only one.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, the PUB does work on Sundays. It has a shift system. It has an emergency unit which works on Sundays to ensure that supplies are not disrupted. But the PUB is not going to work on Sundays just to please one manufacturer who is unable to schedule his work programme well.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I have made it very clear that the PUB will accommodate the consumers wherever possible. We would be very willing indeed to put up a special task force to work on Sundays but that is not the solution. There must be cooperation from both sides. As I have said, regarding the case which he has mentioned, the manufacturer must have known well before hand what his delivery date is and when he has to change the cable. If he does not know that, he does not deserve to survive. But we are always ready, able and willing to accommodate the wishes of consumers whenever we can. But at the same time we have got other priorities to consider. We have a very large establishment to look after. Utility services are being supplied to the whole of Singapore. The maintenance of daily supply of utility services takes priority over the requirement of one manufacturer who is unable to time his schedule accordingly.”