Low Thia Khiang
Singapore
“Mr Speaker, my question is for the Minister for Health. The official communication channel to the people who subscribe to the WhatsApp group quoted the Prime Minister saying that "Experts think that the Wuhan virus may be less deadlier than SARS". So, can we have some verification whether this is true so far?”
“In Mandarin, Sir. (In Mandarin): [Please refer to Vernacular Speech.] So, Member Mr Gan Thiam Poh meant to say that although the Minister has the decision-making power under this Bill, you can still go to Court to challenge the decision.”
“Mr Speaker, clarification in Mandarin. (In Mandarin): [Please refer to Vernacular Speech.] I have stated clearly that the Government already has a lot of power under existing legislation. They can even shut down websites.”
“(In Mandarin): [Please refer to Vernacular Speech.] First and foremost, you must follow the Minister's decision to take down the message, you cannot go to Court. According to this Bill, you must comply with the Minister's order. Otherwise, you will be charged.”
“In Mandarin, Sir. (In Mandarin): [Please refer to Vernacular Speech.] Our Secretary-General is in the Committee. He told us about the contents of the Committee's discussion, so we know what was discussed in the Committee.”
“(In Mandarin): [Please refer to Vernacular Speech.] You assume that the Minister will not do this, but is your assumption correct? It may be correct now, but will it be correct in the future? Even the Minister cannot guarantee that, he said he cannot be sure that future governments will not abuse their power. Can you be sure?”
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“Sir, the Minister has not answered whether allowing JTC to buy HDB flats to let out to the foreign workers is in conflict with the philosophy of HDB of owner-occupation.”
“Sir, I heard the Minister saying that in the case of a sunken apron with broken sewer pipes, the HDB will carry out the repairs. Can the Minister confirm that under such circumstances, the HDB will pay for the full cost of reinstatement of the sewer line and also the repair of the sunken apron? In the Minister's answer on housing for foreign workers in HDB flats, it appears to me that there are no male foreign workers being housed in HDB flats. Is my impression correct? What about the regulations? Specifically, how many foreign workers are allowed to be housed in, say, a 1-room flat rented out to companies for this purpose? What are the guidelines in terms of renting such units to companies to ensure that it is equally distributed over Singapore, and not concentrated in a particular block or in a particular estate? The other matter is allowing JTC to buy HDB flats from the open market for housing foreign workers. Is this not in conflict with HDB's philosophy that HDB flats are for owner occupation, rather than allowing them to be let out to foreign workers? 2.15 pm Assoc. Prof. Low Seow Chay (Chua Chu Kang): Sir, the Minister did not reply to my question on how many units of Executive Condominiums would be built in the next few years.”
“Thank you, Sir. The Minister mentioned just now about introducing competition to power supply and he has a very optimistic assessment of future tariffs. May I ask whether the Minister is saying that electricity tariffs in the future will eventually be lower? Second clarification, Sir. I refer to the commercial accounting standards of average total assets of equity in Appendix I. I would like to know what is the relationship between the assets and equity. How does the Government calculate the assets and the basis of capitalising the assets? And how does he formulate in terms of equity returns? Does he base on the assets, and what is the percentage? The other clarification is regarding the Suzhou Industrial Park project. In view of the current tension and instability between mainland China and Taiwan and the potential involvement of the US in this affair, what is the Minister's assessment of the future of the Suzhou Industrial Park project?”
“Sir, may I seek some clarification from the Minister.”
“Sir, I am not satisfied with the answer. In view of the time, I withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $125,429,850 for Head V ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $34,726,100 for Head V ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates. Head K -”
“So that the public will know whether they are performing their duties correctly. BG Lee Hsien Loong: Mr Speaker, Sir, Mr Low participated in the last elections. Mr Chiam has participated in three elections. In fact, Mr Low has also participated in more than one election. If he has ever come across a case where the presiding officer had not behaved properly, he should let us know. If there are cases where the presiding officer has done something and he, while present, did not know whether it was proper or not, because he had not been briefed by us, then I hope he will let us know also, and we will brief him.”
“My question is whether you will let the public know what these officers should do at the polling stations. BG Lee Hsien Loong: The officers know what to do. Why does the public need to know what the officers should do. I do not understand the problem.”
“Sir, does the Elections Department publicise the responsibilities and the correct behaviour of presiding officers in each polling station they are in charge? BG Lee Hsien Loong: Sir, as I have explained, all the officers are briefed before they assume their duties. I am not sure what is prompting this question about officers who did not do their duties properly. If so, I would like to hear about them.”
“Sir, how about the conduct of those presiding officers or election officers in polling stations? BG Lee Hsien Loong: Sir, that is a routine job of the Elections Department. If they did not do it, they will be remiss in their duties. Every time there is a general election, proper briefings are conducted so that all the officers know exactly what they are supposed to do. I do not know if Mr Low was referring to any particular presiding officer who did not know his responsibilities. If so, I would be happy to receive the particulars from him.”
“Sir, my question is whether or not the Elections Department will publicise the rights of voters and those things that are related under the Parliamentary Elections Act to enhance the awareness of voters about their rights. BG Lee Hsien Loong: Sir, we will do as we have done in previous elections. There has been no problem. Nobody has been unable to vote because he did not know how to do it or where to do it. We have a publicity programme every time there is an election to explain to new voters the polling card they will receive, what they should do when they enter the polling booth, how they should mark. I think we will continue to do that on a similar scale.”
“But I really do not think that is a problem because our voting system has been well established. We have had nine general elections and there has never been any difficulty in getting people to vote for the ones they want.”
“Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head V of the Main Estimates be reduced by $10 in respect of Code VB 2400. (In Mandarin): Last year, the Elections Department spent over $3 million on public relations. This year, according to the Estimates, the amount is $3.4 million. I want to know in what area is this expenditure to be made. Secondly, during the elections, the Elections Department will go through the media to let the people and first-time voters, know, first, the right of the voters under the Elections Act; second, what can be done or cannot be done between the candidates and the voters. On the responsibilities of the election officers, how are they expected to conduct themselves at the polling stations? In what circumstances can presiding officers cast votes on behalf of the voters? Thirdly, what are the responsibilities of the other election officers? BG Lee Hsien Loong: Sir, in 1994, the Elections Department spent $11,000. Last year, they spent $3 million. This year, they are going to spend $3.4 million. "Public relations" refer to dealings with and services provided to members of the public concerning electoral registers and the conduct of elections. The sum budgeted annually is to cover all expenses for the conduct of any general elections, which may take place possibly this year. The bulk of the sum of $3.4 million budgeted for next year is for the coming general elections. Half is for manpower, another quarter is for rental of space and equipment, 20% is for general supplies, including printing of poll cards and ballot papers. Although it is titled "Public Relations", it really means dealings with the public, and this will include explaining to people how to vote and so on.”
“It does not take us very many years to find out after he comes back. Dr Kanwaljit Soin: Sir, with due respect to the Deputy Prime Minister, may I seek clarification on two points, please? One is on what the Prime Minister said in Bern that we leave it to the household to decide on its head. The second clarification is that I think the Women's Charter should be changed. Because if the father is not working and it is the mother who is working, then I think the mother would have to look after the welfare of the child. And if the mother is earning more, she should proportionately put in more. Furthermore, the Women's Charter does say that the husband and the wife are responsible for the welfare of the child. It does say that as one of its tenets. BG Lee Hsien Loong: The Prime Minister has just pointed out to me that while it is up to the family to choose who is the head of the household, 99% of the families have chosen the father, which I think is an under-estimate. As for the Women's Charter, both have responsibilities for bringing up children. But the father has responsibility for supporting the wife and the kids and that is a legal responsibility. The mother can go to court and enforce it, even if they are not married. The father cannot go to court and insist that the mother coughs up. So there is an asymmetry. It reflects the structure of our society. The question is whether we want to change that structure, and the Government's position is no. Dr Soin has a different view. We respect that.”
“Sir, may I seek two clarifications from the Deputy Prime Minister? First, the DPM says that diploma holders are eligible to apply for scholarships. According to his answer, they will be assessed together with the 'A' level holders. So there are different criteria, I suppose. Between 'A' level results and diplomas, how does he compare them? The second clarification is this. The DPM says that overseas scholars will also be assessed. Is it true that overseas scholars are given a different career path compared to local graduates? Is there any stereotype? Because they will have a higher potential in their assessment and that would affect their future promotion. BG Lee Hsien Loong: The PSC takes many factors into account in awarding scholarships. Academic results is only one of them. You may have straight 'As' but if you do not have the character and the general range of abilities and leadership potential to be a good officer, you will not get a scholarship. I do not know how exactly the PSC trades off between a polytechnic diploma grade and 'A' level grades, but grades are not the only factor taken into account. As for overseas officers getting promoted faster than local ones, I can assure him that there are many overseas officers who have got nowhere in the civil service, because they have not performed. We evaluate on performance. It does us no good nor is there any reason why we should want to give somebody a birth right for the rest of his career just because he has gone to a good university. We send him to a good university expecting him to be promising. Usually we are not wrong and he goes on to do well. If it turns out that we have misjudged or later on he has become disappointing, then he goes on to a different career path.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, can I seek a clarification from Mr Peh?”
“Sir, can I take it that in this particular case, the Ministry has made a wrong judgement in closing the case?”
“Is there any time-frame or duration in which cases like this will be followed up?”
“The Minister said that the case was closed but the press report mentioned that there were bruises. The Minister said that there was no sign of it when the social worker visited the child. Is the Minister saying that these bruises occurred after the social worker visited the child and probably the case had been closed by then?”
“Based on the press report, the case was closed on 16th July and the last visit by the welfare officer was 27th June 1994. But a family member, Ismail Abdul Karim, had noted in June or July 1994 that the toddler's face was swollen and he had seen his father punched him. I would like to know why there was this discrepancy. Secondly, is the social worker concerned equipped with the necessary medical background to understand and note any form of injury, abuse and things like that, or was it just a casual observation?”
“When was the interview conducted? Mr Abdullah Tarmugi: Sir, I do not think the Member expects me to have all these details here. I can give him all the details if he wants, but certainly not here.”
“I would like to know whether the officers concerned from the Ministry did make any surprise visits after the child was returned to the parents and what are the follow-up procedures in cases like this.”
“That was not my intention, Sir. I am surprised that the Ministry closed the case and classified the case as abandonment when the child was abandoned twice. Eventually, the question that arises is: is abandonment a form of abuse?”
“Is the Minister implying that if a child is abandoned in a public place, then it is considered as abuse?”
“Sir, is abandonment, twice in this case, considered a form of abuse?”
“Since the child was abandoned twice, does the Minister agree that the parents must be quite irresponsible in this case? And since the Ministry first came to know about the case when the parents were unable to pay the fostering fees, did the Ministry take the initiative to further look into the problems faced by the family?”
“Since the child was abandoned twice, did the Ministry not suspect anything more than just abandonment? Mr Abdullah Tarmugi: Sir, there was no cause for the Ministry to suspect anything beyond abandonment because on occasions when the Ministry's social workers interviewed the parents and the child himself they found no evidence of child abuse.”
“How does the Ministry classify the case?”
“The Minister said that the introduction of curbs was due to the proliferation of pasar malams. And as a result of the curbs, opposition grassroots organisations are not allowed to organise fairs. Is the Minister saying that this proliferation was due to the organisation of pasar malams by the opposition grassroots organisations and not by the RCs as well? Why is he not curbing the RCs as well? RAdm Teo Chee Hean: Sir, Mr Low is mistaken on all the counts that he has raised. First of all, RCs are curbed. RCs have a limit of three days per year. RCs have curbs placed on them and there are controls. And it is also not true that opposition town councils are not able to organise pasar malams. Opposition town councils have organised pasar malams. As I said, Potong Pasir Town Council has done so. Bukit Gombak Town Council has done so. And the town councils are one of the three groups in a constituency, together with the CCC and the CCMC, who can use the 16 days for organising fairs. BAN ON SMOKING FOR UNDER-18-YEAR-OLDS (Update on enforcement measures) 9. Mr Imram bin Mohamed asked the Minister for Health if he will give an update on the measures taken to enforce the ban on smoking for the under-18-year-olds and whether the ban has achieved its purpose.”
“Sir, I would like to take up my supplementary question which I asked just now about the quota period. When is it open for application? How does the quota work? How does it stretch from one year to another? RAdm Teo Chee Hean: Sir, the quota year is from July to June of a given year and applications can be submitted not earlier than two months before the commencement of each fair. As I have explained, a constituency can ask for next year's quota to be used in the current year. But then, of course, that constituency will not be able to organise a fair the next year. Alternatively, if a constituency has not organised a fair in the previous year, then it can carry forward the quota to the current year.”
“Sir, my question is grassroots organisations and not town councils. RAdm Teo Chee Hean: Sir, there are recognised grassroots organisations in each constituency. These recognised grassroots organisations are allowed to organise pasar malams, but it is not within my Ministry's purview to determine which organisations are recognised and which are not.”
“Does the Minister agree that by changing the rule from 1st July 1995, it will shut off organisations like opposition grassroots organisations in organising pasar malams? They were allowed to organise fairs before the rule was changed. RAdm Teo Chee Hean: Sir, as I said, Potong Pasir Town Council and Bukit Gombak Town Council have organised pasar malams since 1st July 1994.”
“Is it not true that grassroots organisations formed by Opposition Members of Parliament are treated differently? In other words, pasar malams are only allowed to be organised by grassroots organisations like RCs. My constituency's committee which is a grassroots organisation was excluded. RAdm Teo Chee Hean: Sir, this is not the first time that Mr Low has pursued this line of questioning. This was also pursued in the budget debate last year and I think the answer has been given quite comprehensively. But I would like to say that if all the organisations within a given constituency are able to work smoothly with each other, then the constituents will be better served. For example, I know town councils which work very well together with the RCs and the CCCs to organise functions jointly to serve the needs of their constituents. Naturally, the constituents are well served in that sense. I think we should not be seeking to change the rules merely to benefit one particular type of organisation, in this case, the town council.”
“Sir, I wish to correct the Minister. Is the Minister aware that the Hougang Town Council has not organised any fairs so far? The reason is that the quota was taken up by the CCC because they were given this flexibility. May I request the Minister to reconsider this flexibility so that, strictly, each constituency can only use 16 days a year, rather than allowing the CCC, CCMC or whoever to stretch the period. The other supplementary question is this. I would like to know the quota period stretches from which month of the year to which month of the following year? RAdm Teo Chee Hean: Sir, on the first point, I wish to make a clarification. Mr Low is correct. Potong Pasir Town Council and Bukit Gombak Town Council have organised fairs and he is correct that Nee Soon Central and Hougang have not organised fairs, although the grassroots organisations have organised fairs since July 1994. As I said, the flexibility is given so that we are not so rigid. The Government is always accused of being very rigid. In this case, when we have given some flexibility, we are being asked to remove that flexibility. I really see no reason why we should pursue this particular line. Secondly, I repeat, the rules that have been laid down are to treat every constituency in the same way. I see no reason why town councils should be treated separately.”
“When will it be announced? I suppose the details will include the stations. Am I right? Mr Mah Bow Tan: I thought I made it quite clear that it will be announced as soon as the details are finalised. LAND ABOVE OR NEAR MRT STATIONS (Development by Land Transport Authority) 5. Mr Chiam See Tong asked the Minister for Communications whether he will consider introducing legislation to amend the Land Transport Authority of Singapore Act and other relevant laws to allow the Land Transport Authority to develop land above or near MRT stations.”
“Would the Minister confirm that the details will be released within the next two weeks?”
“Sir, what are the technical issues or other issues which the Minister mentioned had to be resolved? The second supplementary question is: is it true that the SMRT was scheduled to make the announcement before the Chinese New Year?”
“Since SMRT is of importance to the public because it operates the public transportation system, would the Minister require the SMRT to submit its report to Parliament as well?”
“Does SMRT lodge its report with the Registry of Companies and Businesses (RCB)?”
“Can I take it that it should be reflected in Temasek Holdings' report?”
“Since the shareholder is the Government, where is the investment reflected in the Government's financial report, if it is not MRTC?”
“Is the investment of SMRT through the MRTC which holds a special rights share? Mr Mah Bow Tan: No, Sir. The MRTC is not the shareholder of SMRT. The shareholder of SMRT is actually the Government, mainly through Temasek Holdings.”
“Should MRTC, which is solely owned by the Government as the Minister has said, be considered as a subsidiary of the Government?”
“Since it is 100% Government-owned and according to the annual report of MRTC it is an investment, why were the accounts not incorporated into the MRTC's annual report?”
“Is SMRT Pte Ltd part of Government's investment or is it solely owned by private individuals?”
“Sir, does the SMRT release the whole set of the financial accounts or is it released in the form of only a press statement? Mr Mah Bow Tan: Sir, the financial results are contained in the annual report and copies of the annual report are circulated widely, including, I believe, grassroots advisers as well as all statutory boards. Of course, copies are available in the libraries.”
“In Chart 5, Indonesia charges 7.36 cents per unit (that is the cost per unit); Singapore Power, 8.04 cents. The difference is less than a cent. In Chart 6, under "Losses as Percentage of Units Generated", Indonesia, 14%, compared to Singapore Power, 9.2%. And in Chart 12, Indonesia charges 9.77 cents while Singapore Power charges 12.37 cents.”
“Sir, just now the Minister said that because the cost of other countries is lower than ours, that is why they can afford to charge lower tariff. But please refer to Chart 5 where it is shown that Indonesia's cost per unit produced and distributed, compared to Singapore, is only less than a cent lower. And their loss as percentage of units generated is 14%, compared to 9.2% for Singapore Power. Whereas the tariff charged by Singapore Power, compared to Indonesia, is more than 3 cents. Would the Minister explain that?”
“Sir, I refer to the Charts distributed by the Minister. The productivity indicators show that the productivity of countries like Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand is much lower than Singapore, whereas in terms of average tariffs charged by regional power companies, Indonesia, Thailand and Malaysia are able to charge lower tariffs than Singapore Power. Why is this so?”
“Is the Minister saying that in the past, the operating cost of PUB was not taken into account in the accounting system? Mr Yeo Cheow Tong: Yes, in the past, under the World Bank's accounting system, for example, work-in-progress was not taken into consideration. And as you know, it now costs about a billion dollars to build a power station. So from the time you start to the time you finish, all those requirements were not captured in PUB's accounts. But under the normal accounting system, all these costs - work-in-progress and working capital - have to be in the accounts. Is the World Bank's system wrong? I do not think so. It is an accounting system which is required by the World Bank and which measures a certain level of capital needs. I think what we failed to recognise was that the World Bank's accounting system was a very simplified form of accounting system. If it had realised that, then PUB would have, I think, moved away from the World Bank's system much earlier.”
“Sir, I suppose I was right to say that the return right now is for the Government's investment, and not whether or not SP is going to be privatised. The next supplementary question is this. Based on the Minister's answer about tariff, is he saying that electricity tariff in the past was not set properly? And if it is so, why? And when did he discover that it was not set properly?”