Low Thia Khiang
Singapore
“Mr Speaker, my question is for the Minister for Health. The official communication channel to the people who subscribe to the WhatsApp group quoted the Prime Minister saying that "Experts think that the Wuhan virus may be less deadlier than SARS". So, can we have some verification whether this is true so far?”
“In Mandarin, Sir. (In Mandarin): [Please refer to Vernacular Speech.] So, Member Mr Gan Thiam Poh meant to say that although the Minister has the decision-making power under this Bill, you can still go to Court to challenge the decision.”
“Mr Speaker, clarification in Mandarin. (In Mandarin): [Please refer to Vernacular Speech.] I have stated clearly that the Government already has a lot of power under existing legislation. They can even shut down websites.”
“(In Mandarin): [Please refer to Vernacular Speech.] First and foremost, you must follow the Minister's decision to take down the message, you cannot go to Court. According to this Bill, you must comply with the Minister's order. Otherwise, you will be charged.”
“In Mandarin, Sir. (In Mandarin): [Please refer to Vernacular Speech.] Our Secretary-General is in the Committee. He told us about the contents of the Committee's discussion, so we know what was discussed in the Committee.”
“(In Mandarin): [Please refer to Vernacular Speech.] You assume that the Minister will not do this, but is your assumption correct? It may be correct now, but will it be correct in the future? Even the Minister cannot guarantee that, he said he cannot be sure that future governments will not abuse their power. Can you be sure?”
The complete record
Every one of 2,669 lines we hold for Low Thia Khiang, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 47 of 54.
“Sir, may I know from the Minister whether, if a case is confirmed for hearing, the worker concerned will be allowed to stay in Singapore till the case is heard and completed?”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, the workers concerned did not approach me personally for assistance. I am asking this Question for the purpose of clarification from the Minister concerned. As Singapore relies quite heavily on foreign workers, I think it is only fair that we should not in any way prejudice their cases. That is why I have asked the Question. There are two more supplementary questions, Sir. One is whether the Minister will consider allowing foreign workers, who have a case in court and their legal counsel has undertaken to proceed with the case soonest possible to fix a hearing date, to at least complete their case before they are being sent back? The Minister also mentioned just now that if the Immigration Department should grant them the Special Pass to stay here, they might commit crimes or become illegal workers. Does the Minister agree that we should not pre-empt or be prejudiced against these workers that they might commit crimes or work illegally the moment they remain in Singapore? I think it may not be a fair statement to make against foreign workers who are working here and who are making a contribution to our economy.”
“Does the Minister agree that, in the first place, these workers already have financial problems and they will not be able to come back to Singapore again to pursue their claims? So how does the case proceed in court if they are sent back? I suppose they cannot even afford an air ticket to come back again.”
“Notwithstanding what the Minister has said, my understanding is that the case was fixed for hearing on 21st February 1995 and the request was made to the Immigration Department to allow the workers to stay until the case was heard in court. It was for about 10 days in which the pass could be granted. Would the Minister consider, in future cases where the workers have a rightful claim of legal proceedings in court, allowing them to stay until the case is concluded provided their counsel undertakes to proceed with the case soonest possible?”
“If the case drags on for a long time, does it mean that these workers will be here without jobs or maybe working illegally? In fact, according to what I know, the following is the case.”
“Is the Minister aware of two cases by the names of Ranganathan Adaranti Vellar and Ramasamy Shanmugam for claims against their employer for arrears of wages which were withheld? The case was fixed for court hearing on 21st February 1995 but the Immigration Department deported the workers concerned on 10th February 1995. As a result, they could not proceed with their claims in the court. I think this is not fair to the workers concerned. What is the Minister's answer to that? Mr Wong Kan Seng: Sir, the answer is really very simple. I have by coincidence looked up the two cases mentioned by Mr Low and by coincidence I have also discovered that these two persons were represented by Mr J B Jeyaretnam and Mr Jeyaretnam is the Secretary-General of the Workers Party. I think Mr Jeyaretnam knows full well of the circumstances why these foreign workers could not be allowed to stay in Singapore. These foreign workers had placed a claim against their employer with the Labour Ministry some time in October 1994. Eventually, they withdrew their claim and pursued a civil claim against the employer. From November to 10th February 1995, which was the last day given to them to settle their claim, they have almost three months to settle the claim. So when the Immigration Department told these workers they could remain here on short-term Special Passes they should really make full use of the time to settle the claim and, if they could not, they would have to go back. We have no choice but to ask them to go back because we cannot allow foreign workers to remain here indefinitely to pursue their civil claim. We do not know how long it will take the claim to be settled or if it can be settled at all.”
“Sir, is there any formal kind of monitoring system?”
“Sir, how does the Ministry monitor the schools in regard to whether the schools are having a balanced kind of education for their students or having put too much pressure on the students, resulting in some unhealthy practices?”
“Sir, does the Ministry have any information or statistics on the feedback which the Minister mentioned in regard to some schools over emphasising on academic results, resulting probably in an unbalanced education system?”
“Sir, does the Ministry conduct any survey in regard to pressure on teachers and students because of the ranking, in which the schools are most concerned with the results of the examinations and thus some teachers do put a lot of pressure on the students concerned?”
“Sir, the Minister has said that the ranking criterion is mainly based on examination results. Would the Minister consider having a set of criteria by taking into account other achievements of the schools, ie, the average score for the ranking rather than rank the schools based on examination results alone? There is no use in having the report and characteristics when parents do not really look into that.”
“Sir, will the Minister clarify what are the criteria set out in the ranking system, besides the examination results?”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, the Minister mentioned just now about reasonable returns for bus companies. What is a reasonable return which the Minister thinks it should be for bus companies, bearing in mind that public bus transport is a public service? Mr Mah Bow Tan: Sir, there is no hard-and-fast rule to what constitutes a reasonable return on service. But let me put it this way. The bus companies must make sufficient money in order to cater for re-investment into their service to buy new buses, to invest in new equipment, and so on. They must also make sufficient money to pay their shareholders a reasonable rate of return. Up to now, I think it is public knowledge how much money they make and how much dividends they declare to their shareholders and I think the Member, if he checks, will find that dividends declared so far are not excessive compared to other companies and compared to bus companies in other countries as well. VEHICLE ENTRY PERMIT FEE FOR MALAYSIAN MOTORCYCLES (Review of increase) 7. Dr Kanwaljit Soin asked the Minister for Communications if he will review the increase in the vehicle entry permit fee for Malaysian motorcycles in view of the tight labour situation in Singapore.”
“The Minister of State mentioned that the data collection was completed in September 1993. So from September 1993 to April 1994, when the GST came into force, you have about six months. Why can you not do it?”
“Why did it take so long for the Department of Statistics to compile the data? Would it not be better if the new CPIs were implemented before April 1994 to reflect the effect of GST? Mr Goh Chee Wee: The Household Expenditure Survey is a very comprehensive and detailed survey of expenditure patterns. Every member of the Household in the Expenditure Survey has to record down in detail, the items he purchased, how much he paid for it, and so on. So there is a large volume of data involved and therefore the Department of Statistics has taken some time to compile, analyse, and complete the survey.”
“Sir, when was the data collection of the Household Expenditure Survey completed?”
“The Prime Minister has said that the type of reply will depend on the motive and the tone. Does he agree that these are very subjective?”
“Sir, how does the Prime Minister determine the motive of a writer who has published a certain article in the press and decide what sort of rebuttal, whether it is gentle or something else?”
“Sir, the Parliamentary Secretary mentioned about the diversity of people using the roads. Pedestrians are supposed to use the pedestrian crossings or overhead bridges. As for lorries, they have their own speed limits, have they not? Why is it that you are blanketing the speed limit to 50 km per hour? Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: Sir, we are not blanketing the speed limit to 50 km per hour. Even though different road users may have primary access to different areas of the road, the Member cannot deny the fact that there will be cross-fertilisation. Pedestrians have to cross the road and lorries have to move across the road whenever they turn right. I think it is a very simplistic view to say that different road users use different areas and therefore different speed limits apply, and everything is all right.”
“Are you going to do that? Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: This is a pilot project. Six cameras have been installed all over the island. The Traffic Police says that after another five months, they would review. Should the pilot project prove successful, yes, indeed more cameras will be installed. Whilst that will deter speeding in most areas of Singapore, I think the ultimate message must really be that Traffic Police is not out to catch motorists. And that is why great pains have been taken, both in the press and also on location on the ground, to let motorists know where the cameras are. The exercise is to remind Singaporeans that speeding is something that all of us should not do and the cameras reinforce this message.”
“Sir, since the Parliamentary Secretary cannot deny the fact that there is a possibility of such a hazard, would he suggest any measure to reduce the hazard, if possible? Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: I think the so-called hazard that Mr Low has mentioned arises essentially from the newness of the scheme and the fact that drivers are not keeping to the speed limits. Therefore, when they are approaching the camera, they slow down. If this exercise has its desired impact of reminding Singaporeans that there are speed limits, it is for their benefit as well as for the benefit of public safety to keep to the speed limits, when this gets to the ground over time, this so-called hazard that Mr Low mentioned will not be present any more. Mr Low Thia Khiang: Sir, if the motorists are familiar with the location of the cameras, they reduce the speed at that stretch of the road, but after that they increase their speed again. How do you achieve the purpose of installing the speed detection cameras? You have to install cameras for the whole stretch. Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee: It would seem that Mr Low is actually suggesting the installation of more cameras.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I understand from the Acting Minister that it was due to poor quality of concrete, but he mentioned about poor workmanship. My supplementary question is: if that happens once in this particular case, and he has mentioned that we have built millions of columns, would the same kind of incident happen in other blocks due probably to other factors?”
“If the quality of material is specified, how could this particular column fail because of poor quality of concrete?”
“Assoc. Prof. Walter Woon is also not around.”
“I suppose NMP Walter Woon and perhaps maybe Mr Dhanabalan would support my amendment because, in their speeches, they have indicated that --- Mr Dhanabalan: Mr Speaker, Sir, I was not in the House when the Member spoke. I do not even know what the motion is. How can I support him?”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, can I clarify Mr Sung's point?”
“Sir, does the Minister of State agree that it is also equally important for this House to know the detailed pattern of the Government's investments? What is the objection if, let us say, you report to Parliament once a year on what has been invested? RAdm Teo Chee Hean: Sir, I am not sure that it would serve the purpose of this House to have such a listing, because what you are interested in is the performance of the Government in its investments. Having such a listing would not serve that purpose. UPGRADED HDB FLATS (Extension of lease) 8. Mr Chiam See Tong asked the Acting Minister for National Development whether he will extend the 99-year lease of Housing and Development Board flats after they have been upgraded.”
“Sir, does the Minister of State agree that by disclosing the shareholding of the Government in each company, it will be easier for the public as well as Members of Parliament to know what are the investments and whether a particular investment is making profits or making losses, rather than lumping them together as a lump sum figure. RAdm Teo Chee Hean: Sir, the fact that the Government is an investor or not an investor may itself have an impact on the market. Therefore, we should deal with this matter in a rather more circumspect way. Let us concentrate on what are the things which are important for this House. It is important for this House to know whether the Government's total investment strategy is working or not working, and whether or not Government is making a reasonable return on its investment. The total performance of the Government's investments is reported in the Budget book already. That is the criterion from which Government's financial performance should be assessed.”
“Would the Minister of State consider publishing the list of companies which the Government has a shareholding, whether foreign or local. RAdm Teo Chee Hean: Sir, there is a very large number of these companies and from time to time the Government may acquire some shares in some companies and other shares in other companies, and may divest shares in one company according to the investment needs. These holdings may not be of a very long term or permanent nature. To make such a list, I am not sure would also serve the purpose. The basic point is that the Government is responsible to this House for the financial performance of its investments. These are reported annually in the Budget.”
“Does the Minister of State agree that companies which the Government has a shareholding, and it is the country's and people's money, should also be accountable to Parliament? RAdm Teo Chee Hean: Sir, the Government is responsible to Parliament for the financial performance of its investments. But what the Member is asking for is for each company in which the Government happens to own shares, whether foreign or local, to submit its report to Parliament. I think Parliament will be deluged by a great number of such reports and it would not serve the purpose of this House.”
“Does his Ministry have any immediate plans to solve the problem rather than wait for the Committee to report?”
“Yes. Sir, I would also like to ask whether the terms of reference include the following which were reported recently in relation to juvenile delinquency: (1) Parents lack the time to attend counselling session; (2) Some juvenile delinquents say that they are scorned by their peers, or teachers treat them as if they are of no use. (3) These juvenile delinquents also say that they commit crime to attract attention. So what is the solution to these problems?”
“What are the terms of the Committee which he mentioned just now?”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, this is a Bill before the House. If there is no intention, and the Minister of State cannot anticipate whether it is going to be applicable to local charities in the future, why not just state for the time being, that it is only intended for foreign charities? Or state in the sub-clause that local charities will be exempted from this clause until such time when the Government feels that there is a reason or need to control local charities for this purpose. Then we amend the Act at the appropriate time. Why have such a blanket provision? RAdm Teo Chee Hean: Mr Speaker, Sir, I think the intention has already been stated very clearly, which is to exempt local charities for conducting fund raising for local charitable purposes from this clause. I am not sure how I can state this intention more clearly than I have done so three times already. But what the Member is asking for is an open-ended commitment for circumstances which may or may not arise in the future, and he is asking for a commitment on such circumstances which I myself may not be able to imagine for the future. There may be charities, for example, some of which operate partially locally, some of which operate partially foreign, and some of their funds may be collected for local purposes, while some may be diverted for foreign purposes, and there can be any mixture of these things. Question put, and agreed to. Bill accordingly read a Second time and committed to a Committee of the whole House. The House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill. - [RAdm Teo Chee Hean]. Bill considered in Committee; reported without amendment; read a Third time and passed. ENLISTMENT (AMENDMENT) BILL Order for Second Reading read.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, my question is whether the Government has any intention to apply clause 39 to local charities in future. RAdm Teo Chee Hean: Mr Speaker, Sir, as I have already said twice this afternoon, there is no intention at present to apply clause 39 to local charities. I am unable to make an open-ended commitment for the future because it is uncertain what the circumstances may be in the future. But for the present, there is no intention to apply clause 39 to local charities.”
“Can I seek clarification, Sir? If the Minister of State says that the sole intention of clause 39 is to apply only to foreign charities, then why is it not stated clearly in the Bill that it is only applicable to foreign charities and local charities are exempted? That is one clarification. Secondly, I understand from the Minister's speech that there is an intention, probably in the future, for the Government to apply this clause to local charities as well. Would the Minister please answer why it is necessary to have this clause if the Government has no intention to apply it to local charities one day? As regards clause 40, of course I can understand that if it is a foreign charity, it may be a problem in terms of judicial review. But if clause 39 should apply to local charities, then clause 40 would also apply to local charities. The question is: why? It is local charity. RAdm Teo Chee Hean: Mr Speaker, Sir, I have already explained that the present intention is to exempt local charities. So the concern that the Member has raised should not arise. As I have said, the requirement is basically directed at ensuring that foreign charities, without proven antecedents, can be denied permits and that the merits of the decision cannot be reviewed. The purpose is not to limit local charities from carrying out fund raising for local charitable purposes.”
“Sir, does the Minister agree that by publishing the details, at least the public can assess an application which was rejected, whether the judgment of the specific case was really fair and based on a set of guidelines, rather than based on the judgment of the committee? BG George Yong-Boon Yeo: Mr Speaker, Sir, we ought not to be too theoretical about this. As I mentioned earlier, only 0.4% of cases get turned down. If any Member of Parliament or any member of the public were to write to me about why those very few cases which were rejected ought to be reconsidered, I will certainly reconsider them at the Health Ministry level. SALE OF CYCLOSPORIN (Uniform pricing) 7. Mr Lau Ping Sum asked the Minister for Health whether a uniform pricing will be adopted for the sale of cyclosporin to all kidney transplant patients. BG George Yong-Boon Yeo: Mr Speaker, Sir, only patients who had their kidney transplants done in the restructured hospitals and who are followed up as subsidised patients are subsidised for the cyclosporin prescribed to them to reduce the risk of organ rejection. Private patients who had their transplants done in the restructured hospitals as well as private hospitals are not eligible for the subsidy on cyclosporin. Like all other medical services, the subsidy on cyclosporin is extended only to subsidised patients. There is no reason to extend the same subsidy to private patients who can afford to pay for the full cost of the kidney transplant either locally or overseas.”
“Sir, would the Minister publish the detailed guidelines or criteria for Medifund eligibility? What are the bases for allocations and approval of applications? BG George Yong-Boon Yeo: Sir, early last year, the Health Ministry issued a press statement on the guidelines for Medifund eligibility. We have deliberately given the powers to approve specific cases down to the hospitals so that at their level they can make judgments as to whether particular individuals are deserving. I think it is better to do it at that level than to have detailed conditions prescribed at the level of the Health Ministry. It has worked well. Most applications are approved. I do not see a reason for a review of the present system of approval.”
“Mr Speaker, I am equally concerned with clause 3 (new section 3(1)(b)) which reads "any common property of any residential premises or building". What does this mean and what does it cover? I hope the Minister would clarify. The Minister in his speech also said that the Government aims to create a tobacco-free environment in Singapore. Would the Government consider banning the import of tobacco to Singapore altogether one day?”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, can I seek a clarification from the Minister?”
“Can I take it that, in these instances, given the scenario of a very important public service, ie, housing, the HDB has made a blunder in changing from one system to another and then swinging back again.”
“Sir, I would like to know from the Acting Minister, under the new queuing system, how long would the following upgraders need to wait to upgrade to a 5-room or Executive flat? For instance, an upgrader residing in a 3-room flat wishes to upgrade to a 4-room, 5-room or Executive flat, and those residing in 4-room or 5-room flats and wishing to upgrade to a bigger flat, ie, 5-room or Executive flat. In regard to the increase in the percentage of the levy payable to the HDB for those who sell their flats and apply from the HDB, what is the basis for the increase in the percentage for 4-room, 5-room and Executive flat owners who want to sell their flat and upgrade? For those who sell their existing HDB flat and buy a flat from the open market or buy a private property, do they need to pay this levy to the HDB? I also share the concern of Mr Choo Wee Khiang on mature estates. I recall sometime ago someone in this House suggested going back to the old queuing or registration system. The answer from the Minister then was that because of a lopsided supply and demand which existed in mature estates, where there was a great number of applicants against a very small development, the registration system or the queuing system just cannot be applied any more under those circumstances. That is why I am wondering why we are now going back to the old system. If we are now going back to the old system of queuing or registration, why was there a need for the HDB, in the first place, to change the system into a balloting system? People are now running about and questioning about the new system. Those people who had applied earlier and, let us say, there was no balloting system, they would have got their flats by now. But I think many of them are still now waiting for the balloting. Why?”
“Sir, does the Minister have figures of how many vehicles passed the first inspection and the number of vehicles which needed subsequent inspections?”
“Lecture rooms and staff training facilities will also be provided. The current facilities and services are adequate to meet public demand. When the upgrading works are completed, Alexandra Hospital would have the facilities of a good secondary hospital.”
“Sir, what is the number of Class C beds planned for the Tan Tock Seng and Kandang Kerbau Hospitals when they are completed? BG George Yong-Boon Yeo: Sir, I do not have the numbers here. But if the Member will table another Question, I will be very pleased to give him the answers. ALEXANDRA HOSPITAL (Upgrading of facilities) 6. Dr S. Vasoo asked the Minister for Health whether the facilities at Alexandra Hospital will be further upgraded and if the current services are adequate to meet the demand. BG George Yong-Boon Yeo: Mr Speaker, Sir, the upgrading programme for Alexandra Hospital costing a total of $28.4 million commenced in early 1992 and is expected to be completed by the end of 1995. The upgrading works that have been completed to date include:- (a) Creation of a new Day Surgery Suite which has two Operating Theatres and 11 Day beds. (b) Renovation and upgrading of wards, Intensive Care Unit and four Major Operating Theatres. The wards are being renovated in stages. So far, the renovation works in six wards have been completed. The newly renovated wards have modern nurse call systems, piped-in medical gases, proper nurses stations, staff work areas and purpose-built isolation rooms. The operating theatres are equipped with proper induction and post-operative recovery areas. (c) A Day Hospital for the elderly has been built and has started operation on 4th July 1994. (d) Road improvements for smoother vehicular traffic flow within the hospital, a second entry point into the hospital and additional car park lots for the public. Seven more wards and the Theatre Surgical Supplies Unit will be renovated. The X- ray Department is also being redeveloped, after which a Computerised Tomographic (CT) Scanner will be installed in early 1995.”
“Sir, is the Minister aware of any instance where a patient has been referred to a higher class bed because of the non-availability of Class C beds in the hospital? BG George Yong-Boon Yeo: If it happens on that day that the Class C beds are all taken up and the case is acute and the patient cannot be referred to another hospital with Class C beds available, then the patient will be admitted to a Class B2 bed but charged Class C rate.”
“Sir, do the hospitals keep records of daily occupancy rates of C class beds? BG George Yong-Boon Yeo: I am sure they do.”
“Based on the occupancy rate, it seems to be quite consistent. But I note that the number of C class beds in the hospitals has been reduced over the corresponding period. Would the Minister make an assessment as to whether the number of C class beds in the hospitals now will be sufficient in future in view of the aging population? BG George Yong-Boon Yeo: Yes, we will adjust the number to the demand required.”
“Why not? The rationale is that because it is below market rate, HDB will not give such a rebate. But in this case it is at market rate.”
“So for these tenants who have tendered for their shops on the open market and paying market rate, would HDB consider giving them the reduction in property tax?”