Mr Gregory Campbell
MP for East Londonderry · Democratic Unionist Party · United Kingdom
“The hon. Member talked about publication of the audit, with which I hope everyone will agree. Does he agree that it should be shared across the nations of the UK in order that all our Executives—the Parliaments in Scotland and Wales and the Executive in Northern Ireland—can take action where that is appropriate?”
“Does my hon. Friend agree that confidence in policing is often undermined by the public’s use of finite clips on social media, which do not take account of what happened immediately before whatever incident is broadcast?”
“A few years ago, we had an appalling incident when a reporter of Jewish extraction, from Israel, was in licensed premises in Northern Ireland.”
“That incident happened in my city at the weekend. Jewish athletes from Israel were forced to withdraw from the triathlon as a result of the hateful bile of these hard-left bigots. They complain about the far right, but we have to be consistent in any criticism and calling out of violent rhetoric, whether on the right or the left.”
“The right hon. Gentleman referred to the need for a humanitarian response. Does he agree that that can have an impact only if it is internationally co-ordinated? The scale of the catastrophe in Sudan is such that anything less that will be a piecemeal gesture.”
“Does my hon. Friend agree that a classic example of that, which we had some time ago, was when companies selling plants and seeds in Great Britain could not supply them to Northern Ireland, but people could buy them here and take them over on a plane?”
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“This is a serious issue—we must ensure that people are not disadvantaged for any type of accent—but does my hon. Friend agree there is sometimes a humorous side, as we saw this week in the European Parliament? A Sinn Féin MEP complained that they were not allowed to speak in Irish. When the chair reminded him that they could, the MEP replied that he was not prepared, so he would speak in English instead. It can be humorous—even if slightly embarrassing at times.”
“I congratulate the hon. Member on securing the debate. He mentioned cross-party support; does he agree that, as far as we are able to ascertain, the people of Gibraltar are glad that there is cross-party support for their position in this House, and that we must try to maintain that to ensure the safety and security of the people on the Rock of Gibraltar?”
“Community cohesion is important, both racially and politically. Everyone accepts that political leaders and others have to be cognisant of what they say and what they do, and whenever we are all remembering our dead, as we do, no one denies republicans the right to remember their dead. Does the Secretary of State agree, however, that if a political leader, such as the First Minister—Sinn Féin’s Michelle O’Neill—not only remembers republican dead, but lauds, praises and defends their indefensible actions, that does great harm to community cohesion?”
“Q10. The Government have said that higher taxes are needed to fund rising welfare spending. In Northern Ireland, my party’s Communities Minister is taking action to reduce welfare fraud and error. Discussions were held between the Treasury and the Department that would have allowed Northern Ireland Departments to retain a share of any savings to invest directly in public services, but those proposals were blocked by Sinn Féin. Will the Deputy Prime Minister ensure that the incoming Prime Minister will look at that approach again so that we can tackle benefit fraud and protect taxpayers’ money as well as delivering real benefits for communities across all of Northern Ireland?”
“Does the hon. Member agree that one of the most cost-effective ways of helping, particularly in sub-Saharan Africa, is to allow local people to avail themselves of clean drinking water, which can transform lives?”
“T5. Will the Secretary of State consult the devolved regions on the roll-out of small modular reactors, so that all the consumer and job opportunity benefits can be shared right across the whole United Kingdom?”
“I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this timely debate. He is rightly elaborating on the need for more transparency, and he just alluded to the 10 Members whose second job income comprises the vast majority of the total. When this debate comes into the public domain, the question that always runs beside it is, “What do we need to pay MPs to preclude the need or the desire for second jobs?” Does he agree that that issue has to be dealt with, and does he think the public would be satisfied with a salary for MPs of £120,000 or £150,000 in order to preclude a small number from earning massive sums?”
“On the issue of any complexity adversely affecting a Member’s ability in the House, does my hon. Friend agree that while we all should be open and transparent and the register should be kept up to date, as the mover of the motion said, the final arbiter on all these issues has to be the voters? When the voters decide that a small number of MPs may be getting extraordinarily large, unacceptably large, sums of money, they decide at the election that they do not want that and they replace them with someone else.”
“I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his success in securing this debate, which I suppose is indicative of the crisis that he is talking about. I have secured a similar debate this afternoon on a directly related issue. This demands not only our attention, but immediate Government action, because in 10 years’ time we will not know the high street as we have known it in the past 10 years.”
“There is a door front, a window, curtains and some flowers painted to make a passer-by who does not look too closely think that it is an occupied dwelling, when in fact it is an empty shop and has been so for a number of years.”
“I beg to move, That this House has considered the future of high streets. When I was considering a title for this debate, I toyed with “High streets: a future?” or “High streets: is there a future?”, but I settled on something more neutral. We had a debate on a similar topic this morning in which many of us took part, such is the concern in almost every town and city across the United Kingdom. It is not the case that there is absolute and total dereliction in 100% of town and city centres. Some towns and cities are getting by, but they are the exception, not the rule. Many high streets, unfortunately, have a poor look. In some town centres that I know of, there are shops that have been empty for so long that people have received small grants to paint them as if they were occupied.”
“I agree, and in a few moments I will talk about some of the positive developments, but they are chinks of light, not the answer. I believe that we need to look at this issue much more radically.”
“I agree. The roll-out of banking hubs has helped in a small way, but has made only a marginal difference. The other issue is the difficult problem—or the advantage, as some would see it—of online shopping and its effect on the high street. I go out weekly to distribute my MP business cards on doors in my constituency, in a whole range of areas. On every third or fourth house I see a little Post-it note that says, “Leave the parcel in the garage,” or, “Leave the parcel in the porch.””
“I do not know whether the hon. Member is a mind reader, but I was about to come to that very point. The prevalence of online shopping has dramatically changed the high street. People are free to take advantage of online shopping, but on many occasions it is to the disadvantage of the high street. On numerous occasions, we have heard about things that can help in a small way. For example, urban improvements such as better seating can make town centres more attractive and bring people in. They do help, but they are on the margins.”
“Yes, I agree. When I conclude, I will try to draw some of these threads together into a proposition that I hope the Minister will consider. Charity shops and vaping shops are now prevalent on many of our high streets. I have sometimes been criticised, unfairly in my view, for being an arch-critic of the BBC. I do not regard myself as an arch-critic of the BBC: I always say that I commend it when it does well and criticise it when it does wrong or shows bias. If I am seeing more reasons to criticise it—well, I will leave people to pass judgment on which is more accurate. I have to say that in the past few months, though, BBC News has been excellent on vaping shops on the high street. It should not have been the BBC that had to do that work, but I am glad that it did.”
“I agree. If we are to see the clampdown that the Home Secretary has outlined, as I hope we do, the problems that we are discussing will not get better in the short term. There will be more vacant shops, because illegal shops will be put out of business. That is a good thing, but we need to ensure that there is no gap and we need to get life back into our town centres.”
“Yes, I agree, and I will come on to that point. If we make our high streets more attractive to families, to shoppers and to those who live and work in town centres, the vacuum that enables antisocial behaviour will reduce as we increase the number of people in town centres.”
“I believe that that approach offers the opportunity, whether it is in northern England or southern England, for mayors and others involved with the devolution settlement that exists in Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales to come together in a format that accepts the need for a radical overhaul of our town centres right across the UK.”
“Yes, I do, and I am glad to hear that. I hope that the Minister can deal with that type of intervention. I secured a similar debate in Westminster Hall just 18 months ago, but unfortunately things have not improved since then. I believe that what we require is a radical, fundamental overhaul of how we develop our town and city centres. I have listened to the right hon. Member for Makerfield (Andy Burnham), who will presumably be our next Prime Minister, and he has talked about the promise of devolution and more devolution.”
“If the decline continues, it might not be me back here in 10 years’ time—I probably will not be, or anywhere else for that matter—but someone will be, saying, “When are we going to do something to transform and revitalise our town and city centres?” We need a radical overhaul. I hope the Minister responds positively so that various Government Departments and devolved institutions can co-ordinate to deliver the tangible change that people want.”
“As a result, Londonderry and Coleraine—one is entirely in my constituency and the other is partially in it—will get £2 million per year over the next 10 years. That is progress and something of a start, but it must become part of a co-ordinated approach that includes other Departments and some of the local councils that have been mentioned, to radically reassess where we take town councils in the future. I hope the Minister will agree that discussions are needed between devolved Ministers and their Departments on whether an agreement can be reached about a pilot scheme in the English regions, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, to see how to transform town and city centre landscapes—not just over the next year or two, but the next decade or two.”
“Yes, I agree. Edge-of-town and out-of-town retailers have the advantage in one sense, while the huge multinational online retailers have the advantage in another sense—and they have both put our high streets at a major disadvantage. I move on to some of the positive contributions that have been made. In Northern Ireland, our own Department for Communities has a Shaping Sustainable Places programme under my colleague Gordon Lyons, the Minister for Communities. That draws together a range of Departments to try to revitalise town centres and co-ordinate more closely on how that can best be sustainably delivered for the future. Here in Westminster, along with colleagues, I have been pressing the Government for the past 12 to 18 months to complete the future towns fund, as they now have.”
“The Minister has been very clear and open about offering the problem companies that are having difficulties a meeting with his officials. He has heard the number of people who have requested meetings. Will he agree to inform each Northern Ireland MP before the summer recess in 14 days’ time that either those meetings have taken place or of the dates when they will take place, to avoid any possible ambiguity going forward?”
“On the issue of what people think, does my hon. Friend agree that the vast majority of people across the UK are keen to see us move towards net zero? What they are not keen to do is to pursue a net zero eco-fanaticism that means we must have it today or tomorrow, rather than there being a gradual move towards it that does not impact on the household and business costs of everybody in the United Kingdom.”
“On the issue of the porous border, no one expects a hard border constituting installations and so on, but I have been trying to get the Government to release the figures about how many electronic travel authorisations there have been, and I never get an answer. We do not even know the numbers for people who are coming in legally to tour, visit or holiday.”
“I agree with the Secretary of State that we should come to this subject matter with care and compassion given the age profile of the children affected. He majored on the small number of people who would take part in the trial. In fact, he said that “we are talking about a very small subset of a very small pool.” If that amounts to a couple of hundred people as he said, it is unlikely that there would be universality of outcome, either positive or negative, because in that size of pool there are obviously going to be mixed views. If it is a small number of people who benefit, as he believes, but a much larger number who do not, what then?”
“Does my hon. Friend agree that we need to see a clampdown? We welcome the Government moving on this issue, but if there is a systematic clampdown, we have to try to ensure that the Government also recognise that we must not have even more derelict, empty properties on the high street. We need a combination of a crackdown on illegal shops, but also efforts to redevelop the high street for legal shops so that shoppers can enjoy them.”
“I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing the debate. On the narrow cohort of people who normally benefit from higher education, does he agree that lifelong learning is an essential component for young people from working-class communities in particular? Many of them do not take part in traditional higher education, and they can and should be targeted so that we benefit not just now but for generations to come.”
“Will the Secretary of State join me in recommending that people visit the “06:29AM—The Moment Music Stood Still” exhibition that I and colleagues visited this morning in London, which shows examples of what happened on 7 October, so that we may all get more rounded information on why there is such a scale of horrendous murder in Israel and the middle east more generally?”
“We hope that there will never be a repeat of last night’s violence, but if the Government do not deal with the fundamental underlying problem of the previous night, we will have more nights like that one.”
“Rightly, there has been unanimous condemnation of the violence last night in Belfast, as there was of the incident that occurred in north Belfast that precipitated the protests last night. Does the Minister agree that two years ago, following the Southport attacks, similar violence to last night appeared in Northern Ireland? We all condemned that too, and I asked the Deputy First Minister to accompany me on a visit to our local hospital to reassure ethnic minority workers there that we not just condemned the violence against them, but stood shoulder to shoulder with them in opposition to it. However, we need more than just words and people standing shoulder to shoulder.”
“I congratulate the hon. Member on securing the debate. On the subject of young children, many of them school age, there was a tragedy close to my constituency in August 2022, when two teenagers drowned. That is an example of what the hon. Member is outlining having happened recently across England. Does he agree that we need to educate young people about the real dangers that exist, even when they think there are none?”
“I congratulate the hon. Member on securing this debate. Does he agree that in addition to having a state-of-the-art training facility—and I agree with him on that—we need to have more police officers on the street. The police in Northern Ireland are understaffed, and we need to see more politicians, some of whom are absent today, standing with and recruiting people from all communities, so that they can be trained and serve people in Northern Ireland.”
“Tens of thousands of people are horrified at the circulation online of the video that the Secretary of State has alluded to. He quite rightly congratulates the members of the public who intervened—whether it was a hurl bat or a cricketing bat, they took action—but as tension rises, we now need to see Government action to restrict and inhibit people arriving in this country illegally, some of whom carry out actions like we saw on the streets of Belfast last night.”
“Will the hon. Lady join me in paying tribute to the many people who work in community pharmacies, including my constituent Sadie Jefferson, who is 90 years old and retired last week from the community pharmacy where she had worked for 75 years? Hers is an example of the commitment and effort in community pharmacies right across the United Kingdom.”
“On the hon. Member’s point about involving all schools, does he agree that the problem is not so much about ensuring that young people who are interested and want to get on develop their skills? Disaffected and disinterested young people are the ones we really have to reach out to, to ensure that they, too, avail themselves of the benefits that he rightly outlines.”
“Has the Secretary of State established the success or otherwise of knife amnesties introduced by previous Administrations in reducing knife crime, given the prevalence—and increase—of knife crime in many large urban centres across the country?”
“My hon. Friend mentioned fuel duty. Does she agree that the Government could make a contribution—even a temporary one—by announcing a cut in fuel duty rather than just freezing it? That would be a significant step, particularly as we come through the summer months and subsequently into winter.”
“Does my hon. Friend agree that in many parts of Northern Ireland, but especially in my constituency, this is about striking a balance between those who own or rent their mobile homes and the site owners?”
“Does the hon. Member agree that if ever there was a demonstration of the two-tier process in terms of legacy, we have it as a result of the Saville report? The same Saville report that was used to pursue Soldier F contained an assertion that Martin McGuinness probably had a submachine gun on the same day. He was never questioned, never mind pursued or taken to court—not once.”
“I congratulate the hon. Member on securing the debate. On the issue of children getting access to wheelchairs, does he agree that sometimes the provision itself is fine, but parents subsequently establish that the wheelchair is not suitable and there can be difficulties in getting the best and most appropriate wheelchair for the child as they develop and age?”
“The Foreign Secretary’s push for consensus is to be welcomed. Hopefully, the strait of Hormuz will be open shortly, which will lead to short and medium-term progress. In the longer term, does the Foreign Secretary agree that a lasting peace in the middle east will be more easily secured if we can take action against neighbouring states and elements within those states that threaten the absolute annihilation of the state of Israel?”
“Q2. Severe hardship is being experienced by businesses, consumers and families right across the United Kingdom—not just normal costs of living but fuel costs, which are exceptionally high and getting higher. As we speak, protests are being organised for next week. We need action as quickly as possible in order to ensure that these protests do not escalate out of control, and that people see that politics matters and that Governments listen and take action, rather than just offer words.”
“I congratulate the right hon. Member on securing this debate. As he referred to earlier, the conditions that pertained in 2008 and the financial crash have resulted in banks making massive changes, but the banks should not be allowed—or encouraged by the FCA in some instances, as he has outlined—to punish viable businesses rather than promoting those viable businesses and trying to pursue faulty loans, which is what they should be doing.”
“I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate. On the point about the anniversary and the statement from the Minister for Women and Equalities that she intends to lay the guidance in a matter of weeks, will my hon. Friend join me in expressing the hope that that will be the long-overdue point at which we see a step change in Government attitudes to reflect the biological facts that society understands and knows?”
“Does my hon. Friend agree that community centres across the UK step up when Governments do not intervene? There was an example in my constituency just last week. A community group stepped in to host a careers event for local schools because the community was under-represented in a public sector body. Next month, another group in Coleraine is doing likewise. Those are the vital functions that community centres and groups offer across the whole country.”
“Does the Secretary of State agree that, in any marking of the end of violence, a key date is 1994, when the main violence perpetrators, the IRA, finally woke up to the reality that its ranks were riddled with informants and it was running out of options, so it declared a ceasefire, and that was followed by loyalist paramilitaries doing likewise? But civilised society should never applaud or celebrate murderers ceasing to do what they should never have started doing in the first place.”
“I welcome the review, the Minister’s response and the general thrust of it. I am glad to see the list of people who responded at the back of the review. We responded on behalf of the Unionist community, and it is a good job that we did as no others seem to have done so. On political donations in Northern Ireland, the Minister will be aware of Sinn Féin being able to funnel money from the United States into the Republic and then into Northern Ireland. That is an issue that we raised and it is itemised on page 25. It is a concern that many people have. Sinn Féin already gets millions of pounds of taxpayers’ money in representative money for not coming here, and in addition to that, it is now getting several millions from the USA via Dublin and into Northern Ireland.”
“I congratulate the hon. Member on securing this debate on what is an incredibly emotional topic. It is difficult to imagine parents having grief beyond what he is describing. On the research, does he agree that while no guarantees can be given, if Governments put more money into it, families will understand that and will see progress and, we hope, a better outcome?”
“With what the hon. Member has just said about having a greater understanding, does she agree that, while we all have to play a role, the British Medical Association could help by ensuring that the many GPs across the United Kingdom have a greater awareness and understanding of the need?”