Mr Gregory Campbell
MP for East Londonderry · Democratic Unionist Party · United Kingdom
“The hon. Member talked about publication of the audit, with which I hope everyone will agree. Does he agree that it should be shared across the nations of the UK in order that all our Executives—the Parliaments in Scotland and Wales and the Executive in Northern Ireland—can take action where that is appropriate?”
“Does my hon. Friend agree that confidence in policing is often undermined by the public’s use of finite clips on social media, which do not take account of what happened immediately before whatever incident is broadcast?”
“A few years ago, we had an appalling incident when a reporter of Jewish extraction, from Israel, was in licensed premises in Northern Ireland.”
“That incident happened in my city at the weekend. Jewish athletes from Israel were forced to withdraw from the triathlon as a result of the hateful bile of these hard-left bigots. They complain about the far right, but we have to be consistent in any criticism and calling out of violent rhetoric, whether on the right or the left.”
“The right hon. Gentleman referred to the need for a humanitarian response. Does he agree that that can have an impact only if it is internationally co-ordinated? The scale of the catastrophe in Sudan is such that anything less that will be a piecemeal gesture.”
“Does my hon. Friend agree that a classic example of that, which we had some time ago, was when companies selling plants and seeds in Great Britain could not supply them to Northern Ireland, but people could buy them here and take them over on a plane?”
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“The right hon. Member hits on a very important point. There is not much wider public support, for two big reasons: corruption in some of the countries to which aid is going, and the misappropriation of food and other produce that is delivered. Until we address those issues, we will face an uphill battle in getting public support in the UK for more money.”
“I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing the debate. She is outlining very clearly the importance of the issue. It is vital that people are aware of it. Does she agree that if we do not deal with the issue, the NHS waiting lists over the coming years will be compounded even further than they have been already?”
“Does my hon. Friend agree that the Government need to understand that Northern Ireland represents around 3% of the population of the UK, but produces a multiple of that in terms of food produce for the rest of the United Kingdom? If that was recognised, there might be more recognition in terms of what she is trying to achieve through this debate.”
“On the question of trust in automated vehicles, does my hon. Friend agree that one issue that people will be concerned about is the cost of car insurance? When we are consulted and approached by constituents and we write to insurance companies, we usually hear that the number of accidents occurring is increasing insurance costs. Does he agree that it would be right to be somewhat sceptical? If there is going to be a significant reduction in accidents—I think there will be—we would like to see a significant reduction in the cost of car insurance, but I will not hold my breath.”
“Can the Foreign Secretary help with the context of the middle east conflict? I have been endeavouring to establish an independent verifiable number for the rocket attacks into Israel that were carried out in the 12 months before 7 October and the 12 months after 7 October to give some context to what has happened since. Is she able to assist?”
“I congratulate the hon. Member on securing the debate. Does he agree with me that, difficult as it might be, the key to the problem that he has correctly outlined is the availability of lower-cost, good quality social housing? We must aim to expand that as quickly and successfully as possible in the next few years.”
“Some progress has been made in the early diagnosis of prostate cancer. Will the Secretary of State ensure that when the further progress that we all hope to see is made, it will be shared quickly and efficiently with the devolved regions?”
“My hon. Friend talks about putting words into action. Does he agree with me—this has been expressed in the debate—that it is good, proper and appropriate that we have a debate like this on the increasing prevalence of knife crime? It would be better to see the result of this debate in Government action across the United Kingdom, particularly in towns and larger conurbations where knife crime is on the increase.”
“I welcome both the Minister to his place and the defence growth deal. Does he agree that he now needs to work with the Northern Ireland Executive to ensure that the supply chain in Northern Ireland extends beyond Harland & Wolff and the greater Belfast area, so that everyone in Northern Ireland can benefit from what is potentially a life-changing development for industry there?”
“Despite the oil price being at a six-month low this week, energy prices remain stubbornly high. Given the onset of winter, what further steps will the Minister and his Department take by way of a warm home scheme?”
“The Secretary of State indicated that the Government are introducing what he described as “strong safeguards”, and he says that the legacy commission will be “under a duty not to duplicate aspects of any previous investigations unless there are compelling reasons that make it essential.” What will he do when—not if, but when—the Republic of Ireland’s Government come under severe pressure from other sources to make compelling reasons to him that there has to be something investigated that the person who is the subject of that investigation believed they would be excluded from? What will he do then?”
“I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing the debate. Does she agree that our democracy, and wider democracies around the globe, need to be sufficiently strong, wide and deep to tolerate views and opinions that we may fundamentally disagree with, but are allowed to be expressed peacefully and democratically?”
“The murder of Charlie Kirk shows the most concerning aspect of democracy in the United States, but almost as concerning was the aftermath, when a number of people sought to justify his murder, and to explain it and define it, by quoting—sometimes in context, sometimes out of context—something he is alleged to have said. We need to be careful in the aftermath of violent acts.”
“Does the Minister agree that access to justice is very important, particularly in rural areas, where sometimes witnesses or those offering family support have to travel to court appearances? Is it not vital to maximise accessibility for such people?”
“On the issue of the opposite to what is intended happening in practice, does my hon. Friend agree that, particularly with DEI-related matters, although legislative changes seek to protect those who have genuinely been affected and feel they must seek redress, they often attract people who will maliciously use them to further a political agenda and then derive more capital, rather than having a genuine grievance that has to be addressed?”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. Things have improved only marginally, and not at sufficient speed. I suppose that those of us who live in the real world will say that things would have been much worse if Stormont had not been back up and running. However, I will give an example of the issues. A constituent who visited me just this week said that they had ordered a product from the Natural History Museum, here in the centre of London, but they got this reply: “Unfortunately, we are currently unable to ship to any EU countries.” That is a reply from the Natural History Museum in London to a resident of Northern Ireland who was trying to order a product. Is that not an example of how much distance we have yet to travel?”
“The hon. Member refers to geography. In Northern Ireland, particularly in my adjoining constituency of North Antrim, hydrogen buses have become a phenomenon that was unheard of 15 or 20 years ago. This week, with the tube strike taking place, buses are being used inordinately in London and are making very slow progress through the congested streets. Hydrogen buses emit much less pollution than diesel or petrol vehicles. Does he agree that we need to promote hydrogen in all aspects, but particularly transport, whenever difficult times come?”
“As the Chancellor tries to cut through the bureaucratic red tape around planning outlines, can she undertake that, if successful over the course of the next six to 12 months, she will share that success with the other regions and nations in the United Kingdom, so that we can all benefit from simplified planning procedures, which will bring benefits for all our constituents?”
“I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing the debate. He is outlining accurately the issue in Ukraine, where the Russians are deploying drones to devastating effect. Does he agree that, unfortunately, the west has not armed Ukraine sufficiently to counter that threat and ensure there is a pushback against the Russian aggressor, and we need to reassess that threat not just in Ukraine but across the globe?”
“I congratulate the hon. Member on this debate and his magnificent introduction. I am sure he spent some time preparing it, and it is a tremendous introduction. Would he agree that what he is outlining, and I think we all have to commit ourselves to this, is not just that our generation remembers the tremendous sacrifice made all those years ago, but that the coming generation—those born in the past 25 years—remembers, so that we never repeat any of the mistakes of the past and that we achieve victories such as the one he is describing?”
“The Secretary of State reiterated the issue of the conditional recognition of the state of Palestine. If the Government want to do that, would it not be better equally to make it a condition that any future state of Palestine does not threaten the right of the state of Israel to exist, and that if anyone carries out terrorist actions from any future state, they will be handed over to the international authorities?”
“I congratulate the hon. Lady not only on securing the debate, but on the magnificent job she is doing in selling the Black Country to Westminster Hall and the wider community. Does she agree that her celebrating Black Country Day and others celebrating other days demonstrates the diversity across the United Kingdom? In my patch last weekend, we had a sporting and cultural celebration, with the Open at Royal Portrush golf club and other events. Diversity across the United Kingdom ought to be celebrated in the very way that she is alluding to in this debate.”
“The eating disorder issue is escalating, as the Minister rightly points out. Will he agree to hold discussions and consultations with the devolved structures in Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, so this issue goes to the top of the list of issues that have not really been dealt with in the past but need dealing with now?”
“I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing this debate; many of us have been involved with credit unions for a number of years. She has spoken about the diversification of credit unions. Last night, the Chancellor said she is trying to encourage more people into market-based savings products. Does the hon. Lady agree that credit unions could embrace that concept, provided that they have the capacity and willingness to do it? That would allow everyone involved with credit unions to benefit over the longer term.”
“I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing the debate. Regional colleges such as the North West regional college and the Northern regional college in my constituency do exactly what the hon. Lady outlines. Particularly, the likes of apprenticeships are the future for many young people, especially those from disadvantaged communities. We should encourage and support that.”
“The unfolding scenario in Sudan almost defies description. The Minister has quite rightly spoken about the importance of accessibility. Does she agree that, for accessibility to work in terms of aid, resources and assistance, there needs to be a comprehensive international approach in order even to offer the prospect of hope and delivery within the next few months?”
“In her statement, the Economic Secretary was right when she alluded to the FTSE being at a record high yesterday, though many international indices, whether in the US, the far east or Europe, are also at record highs since the April low. She also alluded to the cash ISA problem. What will be done to instil confidence among the wider public who hold money and cash assets but are reluctant and fearful of investing, even in lower-risk collective investments that, over the longer term, would produce much better returns than cash ISAs, which are subject, as she rightly says, to inflation?”
“We expected Governments to treat people who were owners of these passports equitably and not to deal with them in a partisan way that would result in someone saying, “Well, is this because I own an Irish passport?” or “Is this because I own a British passport?” I entered this House in 2001, and in June 2005 I tabled my first written parliamentary question, which was to ask the Secretary of State whether he would “ensure that people who have resided in Northern Ireland for a certain length of time, but were born in the Irish Republic, can obtain a British passport at the same cost as those who were born in Northern Ireland.” —[ Official Report , 13 June 2005; Vol. 435, c. 167W.] The answer was a standard answer about the fee that was payable, and did not distinguish between whether someone was born in the Republic or in Northern Ireland.”
“All of them—including their children—were born after 1949 and none of them was able to avail themselves of a British passport, unless they went through the expensive and time-consuming naturalisation process. Therein lay the problem, because as time wore on, more and more people were falling foul of the 1949 process. I have in my hands a British passport and an Irish passport.”
“At that stage, legislation was passed to allow people who previously had lived in what is now the Republic, and had moved to Northern Ireland, to be regarded as British citizens and to acquire a British passport. That worked fine for a number of years, because most of the people who had moved had moved prior to that date. But obviously, as the decades wore on and we got into the 1960s and the troubles in Northern Ireland emerged, more people who had been born after 1949 were moving from the Republic into Northern Ireland. For example, if we take the beginning of the troubles, the period from 1969 to 1972, people who had moved to Northern Ireland because of disturbances and violence in the Republic were at that stage in their early or mid-20s. They were born in the period from 1950 right up to the mid-1950s.”
“Each successive Government said that they would ensure that they dealt with people impartially and proactively, according to the nationality of their choice—in the constitutional framework of Northern Ireland within the UK, of course. The consensus emerged, and many people in Northern Ireland expected that to mean—they certainly did not receive any information to the contrary—that whenever a nationality issue arose, there would not be any differentiation or favouritism shown between a person wanting to express an Irish identity and a person wishing to express a British identity, within the context of the United Kingdom. That all came about as a result, as I said, of those successive agreements, but the seeds of the issue in relation to UK passports were sown in 1949, when what is now the Republic of Ireland left the Commonwealth.”
“I beg to move, That this House has considered the implementation of the British Nationality (Irish Citizens) Act 2024. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dr Murrison. At the centre of the issue that we are debating today is how successive Governments—Labour, Conservative, Conservative and Lib Dem, and now Labour again—have determined how the issue of nationality in Northern Ireland is dealt with. A consensus has come about, with all the successive Administrations following a series of what have been called internationally binding agreements, including the Anglo-Irish agreement, the Belfast agreement and the St Andrews agreement. They all left successive Governments with the consensus view that people in Northern Ireland who wished to describe themselves as British, Irish or a combination of both could do so.”
“Friend the Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson) managed to secure a private Member’s Bill in April 2024, which brought us to where we are today. Thankfully, that got Government support and became law.”
“I will not bore Members with them, but I asked a written parliamentary question in November 2006 and I raised the matter in the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee in 2008—from memory, Dr Murrison, you served with me on the Committee when we looked at this issue—in the Chamber in May 2008, in the Northern Ireland Assembly in June 2011, again in the House of Commons in June 2013, July 2013, March 2014, January 2015, March 2018, November 2018 and February 2019, and again in the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee in October 2019. We were struggling to get through the undergrowth of problems and bureaucracy in sections of the Home Office, to try to convince it that these people were entitled to a British passport. Then we came to the 2020s. I raised the matter in September 2020, October 2022 and June 2023, and then my right hon.”
“Those who moved from the Republic to Northern Ireland cherish the fact that their Britishness is enshrined deeply within their family, their generations of service in the military and their loyalty to the Crown—to Her Majesty previously and His Majesty now—so they took great offence at having to go through this expensive process to get what they thought would be their right. After July 2005, when I seemed to be getting nowhere, I succeeded in November 2005 in getting a private Member’s Bill, which ran into the ground, as most of them do. I then embarked upon a whole series of questions.”
“He again indicated that the full fee had to be paid in order for someone who had been born in the Republic but moved to live in Northern Ireland in the past 60-odd years to acquire a British passport. That answer was given 20 years ago this month. I should add at this stage that I live very close to the border—I was born there. I can walk to the Irish Republic. It is within five miles, so on a good, nice day, I can walk there in an hour or an hour and a half, depending on how quickly I walk. There are 280 crossing points along this uncloseable border, which we have debated in other contexts. The relationship between people who live in the Republic, but close to the border, and those who live in Northern Ireland is intense, because there is much that we share.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for that. Indeed, of the passports that I held, the British one was mine. The other one was not—I can reassure him of that. I acquired it temporarily for the purpose of this debate; I will hand it back to its rightful owner. My hon. Friend is right: we have at long last seen an end to the delay, and I will come to that shortly. In July 2005, immediately after the non-reply that I got in June 2005, I attempted to drill down and ask about the distinction between those who had been born in the Republic and those born in Northern Ireland. The answer came from the then Under-Secretary of State at the Home Office—now Mayor of Greater Manchester, no less—Mr Andy Burnham.”
“Yes. I thank my hon. Friend for making that point, which I am just coming to. Even after my right hon. Friend the Member for Belfast East secured parliamentary support for his Bill, there appeared to be a delay. I raised matter again last September, and in January and May of this year. That brings us to today. As I understand it, from next week, thankfully, we will have reached the point where people who qualify can apply to obtain a British passport, but the problem is the inequitable nature of the application.”
“Next week, we will get over the line, but there are two issues outstanding. I hope that the Minister can respond explicitly today and tell us that they will be addressed in short order, but I suspect that she will have to go back to the Home Office. Either way, I hope that the issues can be reviewed and that we can get 100% satisfaction so that people are treated equitably in Northern Ireland whether they regard themselves as Irish citizens or British citizens. Many thousands of people were inadvertently born 2, 3 or 4 miles away from where us UK citizens were born in the UK and long to be regarded in the same way as I and everyone in my immediate vicinity is regarded—as a UK citizen—and to be the proud holder of a cherished UK passport.”
“Hopefully, the ceremony can be made optional or voluntary. I would not want to deprive anyone who wants to attend a ceremony of the opportunity to do so, but, equally, I hope that the views of those who find it deeply objectionable to have to do that can be taken into account and there will be no requirement for one, even if the fee for a ceremony is incorporated in the amount that is payable. I thank the Minister for her attention thus far. I am glad that she is here today. I thank her for deliberating on the matter and getting us to the point we are at, but these two issues remain unresolved. We have come on a long, protracted journey—every time I switch on the television, whatever the topic, people always seem to be on a journey, and we have been on this journey for 20 years. We are now 95% of the way there.”
“They have been British residents, British taxpayers and British voters for decades, and now they are being asked to pay a fee that is eight times greater than the fee that others have to pay. The other outstanding issue is the ceremony fee. I can understand that some people will see attending a ceremony as a nice thing to do—I wish them well and hope that they will enjoy the event that they go to. They may regard it as an event to cherish and look back on. But there are others who would take deep offence at having to go through a ceremony to get a passport that they believe they are fully entitled to. No citizen in Northern Ireland who wants to apply for an Irish passport has to rock up to the Dáil and go through a ceremony to get it. They simply apply and pay the fee, and the passport arrives after payment has been received.”
“As I was saying before I was so rudely interrupted by the Division, the issue now is twofold. I thank the Minister for her assistance in getting a reduction on the standard naturalisation fee, from £1,735 down to a total of £853. The problem is that many people in Northern Ireland who can apply under the new system may well live next door or across the street from someone who wants to apply for an Irish passport, and that person will pay less than £100, while a person who qualifies under the British Nationality (Irish Citizens) Act 2024 has to pay £853. I hope that in the very near future, after the Act has been implemented, the fee can be reviewed, because it is exceptionally exorbitant. I accept that it is a reduction on the full naturalisation fee, but we are talking about people who fully feel themselves to be British citizens.”
“Does the Minister agree that one of the incongruous parts of the legislative process is that when the Bill, which is now an Act, was being negotiated in the other place, Lord Hay, who she referred to, was part of the process of it becoming an Act despite the fact that, although he could vote on it, he could not acquire the passport? Indeed, he was trying to get the legislation passed to allow him to obtain one.”
“The Minister will be aware that many homes, particularly in rural areas, are older properties that are difficult to insulate. Does she agree that we all need to concentrate on those older types of properties, many of which are the homes of elderly people who cannot afford expensive energy? We need to concentrate on ensuring that those homes are properly insulated and that the warm home discount scheme is extended to such properties.”
“On that point, would the hon. Gentleman agree that what we must avoid at all costs is equating those who went out meticulously planning—over days, weeks or even months—to take innocent life with the split-second decisions, as he alluded to, made by the forces of law and order, which may have resulted in death? We must avoid that equation across society at all costs in the future.”
“I congratulate the hon. Member on securing the debate. On the devolved issue, which is slightly different in Northern Ireland compared with the rest of GB, there has been a planning proposal in my area for about seven years to develop a good-quality hotel close to where the Open golf championship will take place next week. That has been delayed not by problems, complaints or objections from local residents, but by a politically inspired complaint extraneous to the constituency. Does the hon. Member agree that we need to address the issue in a more holistic way, to try to get development that most people can agree with and want to see progressed as quickly and effectively as possible?”
“I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing the debate. He rightly alludes to the issue of regular eye testing. Although we obviously want a response from the Minister, does he agree that if nothing else is achieved from this debate but raising people’s awareness about doing exactly as he recommends—and all of us recommend regular eye testing—to detect conditions such as glaucoma, he will have done us all a service?”
“There have been a number of co-productions by BBC Northern Ireland and BBC Scotland. Does the Minister agree that we should develop and promote co-productions throughout the nations and regions of the United Kingdom, so that we can see excellence and best practice everywhere in the UK?”
“I congratulate the hon. Member on the timeliness of her debate. Does she agree that we need more research on the health costs endured by society and the NHS due to this problem? That has to be offset against the tax revenues that accrue from alcohol overconsumption. Those things have to be analysed and researched to address a worsening problem, to which she is right to draw attention.”
“My hon. Friend is talking about an educational approach and trying to advise rather than force people; does he agree that the younger we start doing that, the better? Although they are not exclusively the target audience, we need to focus on teenagers and those in their early 20s, because lifestyle choices are made when we are very young.”