Mr Gregory Campbell
MP for East Londonderry · Democratic Unionist Party · United Kingdom
“The hon. Member talked about publication of the audit, with which I hope everyone will agree. Does he agree that it should be shared across the nations of the UK in order that all our Executives—the Parliaments in Scotland and Wales and the Executive in Northern Ireland—can take action where that is appropriate?”
“Does my hon. Friend agree that confidence in policing is often undermined by the public’s use of finite clips on social media, which do not take account of what happened immediately before whatever incident is broadcast?”
“A few years ago, we had an appalling incident when a reporter of Jewish extraction, from Israel, was in licensed premises in Northern Ireland.”
“That incident happened in my city at the weekend. Jewish athletes from Israel were forced to withdraw from the triathlon as a result of the hateful bile of these hard-left bigots. They complain about the far right, but we have to be consistent in any criticism and calling out of violent rhetoric, whether on the right or the left.”
“The right hon. Gentleman referred to the need for a humanitarian response. Does he agree that that can have an impact only if it is internationally co-ordinated? The scale of the catastrophe in Sudan is such that anything less that will be a piecemeal gesture.”
“Does my hon. Friend agree that a classic example of that, which we had some time ago, was when companies selling plants and seeds in Great Britain could not supply them to Northern Ireland, but people could buy them here and take them over on a plane?”
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“I do indeed agree with the hon. Member. A year ago, I said: “Whilst prohibitions have been lifted for 12 types of plants, engagement continues between the UK and EU on a further 9 species, there needs to be further progress.” The horticultural working group was set up to identify and resolve issues such as this, but it needs to move on these outstanding problems so that a simpler system is in place to enable people of all backgrounds to purchase goods within their own country. For example, large full-scale advertisements in daily broadsheet newspapers for various seeds and plants say at the bottom that they are available throughout most of the United Kingdom—but not all.”
“My hon. Friend is absolutely right; that is just further evidence of the ongoing problems. I suppose the problem is that we have potential solutions in the making but they seem interminably long. The establishment of Intertrade UK offers us the prospect of further progress, but it needs to be given adequate support not only to identify the problems, some of which we have identified here today, but to try to provide the solutions. The EU must be persuaded of the miniscule impact. In the grand scheme of things, Northern Ireland is 3% of the population of the United Kingdom, so any thought that this will jeopardise or provide unforeseen problems to the EU internal market is ludicrous.”
“There are not going to be any checks for ETAs for travellers, just as there are not going to be any checks in terms of people taking seeds across by plane or by ferry, or a boat from Cairnryan to Larne. We need to get it resolved. Burying our heads in the sand will not make the problem go away. The problem will not be dealt with by politicos simply complaining about it, which is what we have seen and heard about over the past few years. I have been exceptionally critical of those politicos who complain but do not offer a diligent, effective representation to try to get a resolution. I hope the Minister will be able to contribute and give us some examples and indications of the significant progress that will be made in the next few months.”
“My hon. Friend is right. I will conclude with this important point: this is not a political issue in the Northern Ireland sense of Unionists complaining about the protocol. Plants, seeds and business affect people of every community. This is not a Unionist problem; it is a problem of unfairness to everybody in Northern Ireland who wants to do business—every firm, no matter their background, and every customer, no matter their background or political persuasion. It is a problem that needs to be resolved. There will not be any checks. I recently raised with the Home Office the issue of electronic travel authorisations in terms of visitors to the Republic coming to Northern Ireland, and the point I made was that there will not be any checks because there cannot be. There are 300 crossing points on a 300-mile land border.”
“I thank the Minister for her reference to my correspondence with the Secretary of State. Indeed, I was quoting the management of that firm, who say that they are still unable to supply Northern Ireland. Will the Minister indicate when those discussions may terminate? Are they likely to end in the company revising that advert to remove the statement, and supplying to Northern Ireland?”
“The Minister mentioned the Equality and Human Rights Commission. She has mentioned several times the need for understanding and empathy, to allow space for people to have various views. Does she agree that that should be shared by the likes of the Commission and other bodies, and that it is their responsibility to carry out their functions and ensure that people know that they have an empathetic hearing within such bodies, so that they are not seen as being opposed to the views of gender critical people?”
“I congratulate the hon. Member on securing the debate. I just have a word of caution for him on the comparison between the middle east and Northern Ireland. Yes, the International Fund for Ireland made a difference, but the scale of the schism in the middle east caused by 7 October and the scale of the rebuild that will be required in Gaza are such that a fund many times greater than the IFI will be needed to make any meaningful difference in the middle east.”
“On average, more than 130 people every week across the UK die from drug-related causes. That is more than 6,500 families and homes devasted each year by that tragic loss of life, including more than 200 in Northern Ireland alone. Will the Secretary of State commit to working with each of the devolved Administrations to prioritise prevention and review enforcement against the use of all illegal substances?”
“What concerns many people in Northern Ireland is that often, when things happen in Northern Ireland that are of a particular disposition, the Republic of Ireland’s Government will weigh in heavily to press our Government to do certain things. However, it seems that on many occasions when things happen on which our Government should make representations to the Republic’s Government, they fail adequately to do so.”
“I thank the hon. Member for securing the debate. On the issue of pride in local market towns, in my area there is a small market town called Limavady. Over 100 years ago, a family called Massey emigrated from there to New Zealand, and their son became the Prime Minister of New Zealand before, during and after the first world war, playing a key role in the Commonwealth’s response to that war. In a few weeks’ time we mark the centenary of his death. Such things need to be marked in small market towns so that they are not forgotten, and people can take pride in what their forebears achieved in the past.”
“Economic growth through infrastructure development could be helped in Scotland and Northern Ireland with more money going to Cairnryan port and the road infrastructure to it. Allied to that, any help that the Department, the Minister and the Chancellor could give in resolving EU-related trading issues would considerably help Northern Ireland business as well as Scottish business.”
“I welcome the Minister’s statement. It is indeed very welcome in Northern Ireland, where it affects Coleraine and Londonderry in my patch. The 10-year period is particularly welcome as it allows for planning and for proposals to be put in place. Can he assure us that, towards the end of this Parliament, we will review the plan to see if it is possible to develop it and to become very focused on trying to get benefit for our constituents?”
“The Secretary of State has outlined that on a number of occasions, both he and the Under-Secretary have responded to issues that the hon. and learned Member for North Antrim (Jim Allister) has raised. He will be aware that I wrote to him about a month ago about the problems with horticultural industry trade between Scotland and Northern Ireland, but I have yet to get a response.”
“The Secretary of State is being very generous with his time. He just said most goods are flowing freely. Does he not agree that he should amend that to say, “In certain sectors, most goods are flowing freely, but in certain other sectors, they most certainly are not”?”
“5. Whether he has had recent discussions with horticultural suppliers in Great Britain on the supply of goods to consumers in Northern Ireland.”
“The situation remains difficult. In fact, the Horticultural Trades Association said that it remains “impossible” for some retailers who are trying to order products from GB-based companies for consumers in Northern Ireland. Everyone can complain about that, but some of us are trying to do something about it. The Government are the people who can bring pressure to bear to resolve this problem for consumers in Northern Ireland, so what action is being taken to try to resolve it?”
“The Foreign Secretary indicated that he would engage in further discussions, along with the African Union. Given that there are about 9 million displaced people in one of the most significant, if not the most significant, humanitarian catastrophes that the world faces today, will he impress on the African Union and partners the need for urgent action to try to resolve this situation?”
“On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Many people will have become aware of the recent controversy regarding the BBC’s decision to broadcast on its iPlayer service the documentary “Gaza: How to Survive a Warzone”. It only withdraw it after public outcry. It featured the son of a Hamas deputy Minister, and there has been the further revelation in the past 24 hours that the cameraman on the film put up a celebratory tweet after the 7 October massacre. The Culture Secretary has already indicated publicly that she wants to speak to the director general of the BBC about this outrageous lack of due diligence, but has she indicated to the Speaker’s Office that she intends to make a statement to the House, to allow right hon. and hon. Members to seek further clarification and get answers for the wider public?”
“The magnificent work done by those who work in hospices, including the four in Northern Ireland, needs to be reflected in the funding formula. Will the Minister undertake to discuss with ministerial colleagues the need for the Treasury to review that funding formula, particularly in relation to devolved settlements?”
“Compounding the problems that the coroner has created with his comments is the fact that in the past whenever innocent people were killed, the judiciary has commented that attention should be drawn to those behind the scenes who send young men out to carry out the killing. These young men were sent out to kill; they had murder in their minds. It is a pity that the coroner did not mention who was behind that—why are their names not being brought to public light? Does the Secretary of State agree that something like that might have helped a little to minimise the compounding problem created by the coroner’s comments at the time?”
“On the lack of scrutiny, does the hon. and learned Member agree that as time goes on and the American Administration begin to look at what they may or may not do vis-à-vis trading arrangements with the EU, it is all the more important—it was important anyway—that we have close scrutiny, because of the deals that may come about between the American Administration, the UK and possibly the EU?”
“Given the backlog in Crown court appearances, and the increasing tide of knife crime as well as criminal activity against women and girls, what steps are the Department taking to ensure that the Crown Prosecution Service is adequately provided for so that justice is seen to be done in the wider community?”
“On the roll-out of banking hubs, does the hon. Gentleman agree that, although that is good, it needs to happen faster, particularly in smaller towns? Today seems to be high street retailing day—I have a debate this afternoon that concentrates on similar issues—so does he agree that the matter requires innovative, fresh thinking to try to help rural and small-town communities that do not have the services of large cities?”
“I beg to move, That this House has considered Government support for high street retailers. This subject has concentrated minds for a number of years, and we are all affected by the problems associated with high street retailing. In fact, Mary Portas said that the future of the high street will involve “less retail but better retail”— that was about three years ago. I am afraid that those who say there are difficulties or problems in the high street are mistaken, because unless towns across the United Kingdom are different from the towns I experience in Northern Ireland, high street retailing is in more than just difficulty. Unless there is dramatic, innovative intervention, the high street in the United Kingdom as we know it will die.”
“I fully agree with my hon. Friend. Innovation will be the key. In many towns—I am sure that this is applicable across the UK—there are enough coffee shops and charity shops, and both of those are admirable additions to our high streets. In fact, when I am on constituency work, I find coffee shops very convenient, especially if I do not have much time to get a bite to eat. They offer a facility, as do charity shops, but the high street has to be much more than that. This is not about the higher-end retailing that exists in, for example, Regent Street or Oxford Street, and I say that not to minimise the high streets across our country. They may be doing well—by the looks of Christmas just past, they are doing well in central London—and much of that is down to money that comes in from outside the United Kingdom.”
“We must be more innovative, particularly in the prime months—in the run-up to Christmas, for example—when we must try to convince various Government Ministers to introduce a charging structure that would benefit local independent retailers on the high street to ensure that some benefit is accrued to local people.”
“I thank the hon. Member for raising that; I was just coming on to the business of independent shops. In Northern Ireland, independent retailers have an effective representational body. They are manfully and womanfully struggling to present their case in the face of huge multinationals that exist, particularly on the edge of town and out of town, where there have been a number of out-of-town developments, which tend to swamp town centres. They take advantage of what is, by and large, free car parking, and town centres are choking in some respects because of commuters and people having to pay for charging.”
“I thank the hon. Gentleman for that. Those two or three options are starting to develop. Those that are in vogue at the moment are reasonably successful, and they need to be built on.”
“I concur with what the hon. Gentleman said. I notice that this is turning into an intervention debate with a speech, but, given that I intervene very regularly—”
“I was just coming to the issue of bank branch closures and post office closures, which unfortunately have exacerbated the problem in recent years. We had a debate this morning where some Members mentioned the development of banking hubs, which has helped to a small degree, but they will take some time to roll out. We must remember that more than 2.5 million people are employed in the retail sector across the United Kingdom, so this is not a niche sector that some people are annoyed about but which does not affect a large number of people: this is a huge part of our economy, and it has to be the subject of innovative change and dynamic alignment.”
“High streets and farmers are the bedrock of this great country, we need to get behind them.” I could not agree more. We need a fundamental reassessment of where our high streets will be not in 15 years’ time but in 15 months’ time.”
“The short answer to that is yes. I think some things are being done by devolved Government, but I was alluding to the rating of commercial premises in the run-up to Christmas. We need to reduce car parking charges and rates at that time because many businesses exist throughout the year only because of the turnover that they get between October and Christmas eve. Richard Walker, the managing director of Iceland—who I understand is a supporter of the Labour Government, so I hope this is not viewed as a criticism—said just this week: “The Treasury is right to look at levelling the playing field on tax, but it has parked its tractor in the wrong place going after hard-working British farmers. Let’s stop messing around and make online sales tax reform the priority.”
“If he does, I would be very surprised. I would welcome his response if he were able to say, “I’m going to go to the Treasury and get special dispensation for Northern Ireland hospitality on the high street, with a 5% introductory rate for the next four years of this Parliament”—I think that would be an excellent idea that would get support across the divide in Northern Ireland. But I hope he will have some discussion with his colleagues to see what can be done. We are at an acute disadvantage, and it is most heavily felt. In the past couple of days, hotel managers and hospitality retailers have been on local radio saying, “Our opportunity for business is diminishing even more as a result of this decision to reduce VAT in the adjoining businesses, just a few miles across the border, down from 13% to 9%.”
“I do not know those organisations, but I presume, on the basis of the hon. Lady’s endorsement, that they are very worth while and worth defending. This week—this is a very topical issue—the Government in the Irish Republic have indicated that they will look at VAT terms. Of course, Northern Ireland is in very close proximity to the Republic. Here in the UK, VAT is charged at 20%, and in the Irish Republic it is 13%. That puts our high street retailers, particularly those in the hospitality sector, at a bit of a disadvantage. The Government in the Republic have indicated that they will reduce their rate yet again from 13% down to 9%, which means that the disadvantage gap for Northern Ireland retailers and consumers will widen considerably. The Minister will obviously not be able to respond immediately.”
“I agree with what the hon. Member said in his brief tour of his constituency, which I am sure is very enticing to those who have not been. We need support, but we need more than just more of the same. We need to have a structured look at what the high street will look like.”
“I look forward to hearing the Minister respond to that, as it sounds like a concept worth pursuing. I thank the Minister for being in his place Hopefully, he will be able to respond positively, to give us an indication of what the Government intend to do and to take a really radical look at our high streets in the next few years.”
“The Minister rightly points out the devolved nature of much of retail. Does he agree that the chronic level of VAT, which is not devolved—it is a matter for the Treasury—compared with our neighbour in the Irish republic is having a detrimental effect on retailers?”
“The right hon. Gentleman said that he fully agreed with the deputy leader of his party. I wonder whether there was an undue emphasis on the word “deputy” rather than “leader”.”
“On the point of one size not fitting all, does my hon. Friend agree that we must look at the issue in a sensible, pragmatic way, and that neither a hyper-capitalist approach nor a radical socialist approach is the answer to these problems? We need a sensible, pragmatic approach that delivers good, effective services to the public while protecting the rights of those who work in those services.”
“I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing the debate. Will she join me in congratulating charity groups such as Life After, in my area, which deals with people who have suffered trauma and the loss of partners or close relatives in road traffic accidents? It does so much to help people after the traffic accidents that she is so eloquently talking about. That type of education would help young people.”
“There are a small number of people who, through due process, appear in court and are convicted, but who decline to come up to the court room for sentencing. The Secretary of State has indicated her intention to move on this. Does she agree that the Government need to show a very robust approach, so that people who show disdain and contempt for the rule of law are shown that there is no room for manoeuvre and that they must and will appear in court?”
“The horrendous situation in Sudan, as the Foreign Secretary rightly said, calls for a common vision for a peaceful Sudan. Will he outline what detailed talks he has had with other nations outside of Russia and the UN, in order that that vision of a peaceful Sudan can be realised more quickly than would otherwise be the case?”
“Has the Prime Minister, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland or the Secretary of State for Scotland indicated that they will come to the House to spell out what additional steps they are proposing to help us bring this crisis to a speedy but overdue end?”
“On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. You will be aware that there has been major disruption in Northern Ireland and, indeed, in parts of Scotland due to last week’s storms. Hundreds of thousands of homes, businesses and families were left without electricity, and some without water. Tens of thousands are still in the same position five days later. I know the matter was raised yesterday in the House, but in rural areas, along with major disruption, they have no online facilities, meaning no business can be done, including last-minute tax returns to His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs.”
“On the stability of institutions, does the Minister agree that there used to be a complaint about the use of the petition of concern, which was alluded to by the hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Sorcha Eastwood), but which has not been used in the past year at all since Stormont returned? We can proceed only when there is agreement between the divided communities in Northern Ireland, and that has to be the basis on which we proceed.”
“I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing this debate. She is talking about those who are contributing to the debate and trying to do their best, but does she agree that it should not be left to people such as one-time musical celebrity Feargal Sharkey, from my city of Londonderry, and many others to campaign on these issues? We need Government action rather than pressure groups and people trying to campaign for change.”
“Does the Secretary of State agree that the job of the commission in helping people to deal with the past is made much more difficult when we have reprehensible incidents such as Sinn Féin First Minister Michelle O’Neill attending and speaking at a commemoration of three IRA terrorists who died when the bomb they were transporting through County Londonderry in 1971 exploded prematurely, killing them rather than the innocent people they intended to murder, and when we now have the possibility that the former Sinn Féin leader and terrorist Gerry Adams may be about to receive compensation?”
“Does my hon. Friend agree that one of the by-products of this magnificent and timely debate is that it allows us to pay tribute to the volunteers, as he is doing? They include the likes of Air Ambulance Northern Ireland and onshore charitable organisations such as Community Rescue Service in Coleraine and Foyle Search and Rescue in Londonderry. We pay tribute to those people, and hopefully we can get them an additional revenue stream to ensure they can do the job of saving lives.”
“I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this debate on an issue that is exceptionally important in working-class areas. Does he agree that those who suffer most from the problem are those who live cheek by jowl with the very tenants he is talking about? It is working-class tenants in social housing, aspiring to a better life for them and their children, who suffer the most and are crying out for help and assistance to solve the problem.”
“My hon. Friend and the hon. Member for Brent East (Dawn Butler) have both alluded to the gender pay gap. Whatever the justification or otherwise might have been 30, 40 or 50 years ago, when there were different roles in society for males and females in employment, does my hon. Friend agree that those days have long passed? There must now be no distinction of any kind, whether it is based on gender or on any other differential. There needs to be pay equality right across the spectrum.”