Dame Meg Hillier
MP for Hackney South and Shoreditch · Labour (Co-op) · United Kingdom
“On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker, I have huge respect for the Minister, but she has said that she will not take any interventions. She is a very good Minister, and I trust that she will answer in detail the points that have been raised in the House today; having discussions with her and the Government after the debate is too late…”
“My hon. Friend talks about who makes our laws, and she has talked in articles that she has written about the primacy of this place. If the Bill goes forward, is she willing to accept amendments?”
“I welcome my right hon. Friend to her place and thank her for that response, which demonstrates the complications of these schemes. I asked the National Audit Office to look into this, and yesterday the Public Accounts Committee published its report on compensation schemes, suggesting that a central body be established.”
“I am pleased by my right hon. Friend’s answer, but she is in a unique position across Government to ensure that we are protecting not only women, but those who are blind or have visual impairments, who really value this technology.”
“I welcome the Chancellor’s clampdown on speculation and leaks ahead of the Budget; it is certainly an important step he has taken. On the issue of certainty, the National Wealth Fund is a critical investor in crowding in private investment around the UK. I noted that he has changed the remit.”
“Further to the points made by my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth East (Tom Hayes), it is important that we talk here and that we have diplomacy, but what practical actions are the Foreign Office and the Ministry of Defence taking to ensure that there is a review of physical defence and security, so that we send a clear message to t…”
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“As the Prime Minister said yesterday, we have no idea how long this conflict will be and he is not assuming that it will be over quickly. We live in troubled times, and it is quite right that the Chancellor of the Exchequer is making serious contingency plans as we move through spring and summer and into autumn and winter. As she well knows, one of the challenges of targeting support is the availability of data. What is she doing to make sure that the data is available—not just across Whitehall, but in local government and in the energy companies themselves—to target support at those who need it most?”
“I have to say, the hon. Gentleman has some chutzpah, given that one of his Government’s many defence reviews had more pictures than pages. I agree with him that we should be serious-minded on this matter—we need to be prepared for defence—but under his Government, projects were delayed and aircraft carriers were without aircraft, and the ongoing Ajax saga is still be resolved. He needs to take responsibility, too. Across the House, we all want to ensure that we are ready to defend our nation.”
“I am sure my hon. Friend will remember that at one point when he was serving our country the last Government put an extra £4.5 billion into defence spending. However, time after time, every witness that came in front of the Public Accounts Committee told us how it was not solving their funding problem and was overspent many times. Does my hon. Friend agree that we need rigour in spending that actually delivers the kit to our men and women on the ground, in the air and at sea who are serving our country?”
“Can the Minister give us a bit more information about how the cohesion strategy will help to educate adults, as the Bell inquiry will help to change the curriculum in our schools?”
“I heard from my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Finchley and Golders Green (Sarah Sackman), who met Hatzola in her constituency, how only half an hour after the attack, volunteers were taking calls to support people. Hatzola does amazing work across Hackney, the borough that I partly represent, supporting Homerton hospital in particular. It is much more than just a nice-to-have; it is an essential part of our health service. The Minister rightly raises the wider issues. My constituency has a smallish Jewish community, and I have a few constituents who are frightened to leave their homes and whose children are frightened to bring friends home from school, and not just because of what happened today—this was the case prior to that. They are living their life in a diminished form.”
“A number of us in London are concerned about the City of London’s proposal to put through a private Bill to relinquish its responsibility for providing the fish and meat markets, Billingsgate and Smithfield. A lot of our constituents rely on Billingsgate for selling and buying fresh fish, and it is important for our restaurant sector. Do the Government have any view on the City of London’s position, and how can we protect these food markets, so that there is no diminishment of the opportunity to get fresh food in London?”
“T7. I have a number of constituents who have had serious delays to their immigration appeals as a result of His Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service. One particularly tragic case involves someone who has no recourse to public funds and serious mental health problems. They applied in September 2024, and have just got a date for July 2026. That delay is typical, rather than atypical. What is the Minister doing to ensure that we speed up the immigration tribunal service?”
“I am glad that the Government are introducing things like the youth guarantee and working to help those who are not in education, employment or training. However, as the hon. Member for Henley and Thame (Freddie van Mierlo) highlighted, AI is also an increasing concern. Businesses I have spoken to are concerned about the number of people they will not be employing in the future. The Minister has hinted that the Government are looking at this systemically. What conversations is he having across Government and, crucially, with businesses so that we can plan for what could be a real crisis in the future?”
“Could the Minister update us on the discussions about people who arrived in this country pursuing leave for five years, or whatever period their visa stated, to get status in the UK, and who are approaching the end of that period? I have a number of constituents who will reach that point in April, and they are concerned that they will have to start all over again under a new process. Could he update the House on their position?”
“My right hon. Friend is right to focus on the cost of living and de-escalation in the middle east. I am pleased to hear her confirm again that there is money for the Ministry of Defence and access to the special reserve to deploy additional capabilities to the middle east. Can she give us a figure or a range for how much money the Treasury is providing to the Ministry of Defence to deploy?”
“I have to say that the sound and fury from the shadow Chancellor is extraordinary, given that it was his Government who ran the country and its citizens into chaos, with interest rate and inflation increases under the Truss mini-Budget. I welcome today’s forecast partly because there has been so little speculation along the way, which I am sure the Chancellor, the markets, the public and businesses welcome. That is the stability and confidence that we need to see. The Chancellor laid out her three choices to promote growth. She will be appearing in front of the Select Committee next week, when we hope to probe her further. In the meantime, can she tell us which of those three areas to grow the British economy she is most excited about?”
“The Prime Minister has spoken about repatriating British citizens in the region. Will that be through the Ministry of Defence? If so, who will foot the bill: the MOD, the Treasury or those being repatriated?”
“In modern times, this issue has been discussed since 2016; we are on our 10th anniversary of discussing what has actually been an issue for 40 years. I disagree with the hon. Member for Bridlington and The Wolds (Charlie Dewhirst) about going back to the drawing board again. Does my hon. Friend have any idea of when the vote will be? If it is in 2030, that will be after the next election. I can see the same old arguments about having to revisit this being rehashed again and again, while the building remains riddled with asbestos and at risk of fire. Frankly, once the works begin, my staff and I will no longer be in the building because of safety issues.”
“My constituent Isabel Rose suffered a horrendous event in Hong Kong almost exactly two years ago. She was sexually assaulted and violently raped. She went to the authorities in trust to report this, but it was not properly investigated. Given the Government’s support for tackling violence against women and girls here in the UK, does the Leader of the House agree that it is time we had a debate in Government time about violence against women and girls more generally and the under-reporting of sexual assault, which is also under- reported in Hong Kong? Will he also flag this issue to Foreign Office Ministers?”
“The NHS’s work on this is vital, but I also draw the Minister’s attention to Mind in Hackney, which is pioneering a new approach to make sure that people get two sessions of mental health support within two weeks. They can get more later on, but that is what they get, rather than waiting in a queue for six months for long-term support. For many people, that, along with a long-term treatment plan, is enough. May I urge the Minister to come and visit? It is only half an hour up the road from Westminster; he could fit it in before Prime Minister’s questions.”
“There is a well-worn route for dealing with these matters, through Humble Addresses and otherwise. Previous Humble Addresses, when the Labour party was in opposition, would sometimes name a Select Committee. I was on the receiving end of that as the then Chair of the Public Accounts Committee. I genuinely want to ask the hon. Gentleman this: why did the Opposition not put in the Humble Address that this matter should go to a Select Committee? I think that there are still ways to use the Committee corridor to scrutinise anything that may be more sensitive than that which can go into the public domain.”
“There is consensus that everybody wants as much information as possible in the public domain so that we can get to the bottom of what has happened in this egregious situation.”
“I am no longer the Chair of the Public Accounts Committee. It seems that we are in something of a muddle here. Had the Opposition named the ISC in the Humble Address, as has happened in the past, there would have been no debate in this House. Putting all the information openly in the public domain could have risks, but there are well-worn filters through Parliament, such as through Committee corridor—various Committees could have locus in this space—to properly and sensitively handle information that, in my time, has never leaked from a Committee. Does the Minister agree? That would ensure that we on Committee corridor are holding the Government to account on behalf of Parliament.”
“As my right hon. Friend has described, this is a crucial policy, but it is a downpayment on tackling other failures of the former Government, including the poor-quality and overcrowded housing that puts too many children in poverty of situation. Is he proud, as I am, that we now have a Labour Government who are tackling these issues and getting our children where they should be?”
“What does the shadow Secretary of State have to say to my constituent, who found herself single with three children in temporary accommodation and then moved into a one-bedroom flat? In those overcrowded conditions, her youngest got ill, and she had to give up her good job to look after that child. This Bill is a lifeline for her. She wants to go back to work, but it is difficult. She did not choose to be in that situation—it was not a choice. And, for the record, most of my constituents do not have space for a kitchen table.”
“I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way. It was, of course, his party, in coalition, that delivered austerity and delivered this policy. Does he have anything to say to the British public about that period of his party’s history?”
“My hon. Friend rightly highlights that this is partly about the wider structure, and it is also about the number of parents who are in work. Does she not agree that part of our strategy on child poverty is also about supporting parents into better-paid work, so they can continue to support their families and their children?”
“My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions made clear in his speech the number of people who make these choices and decisions and then, later on, find themselves on universal credit through changes in circumstances. This is a safety net. It is not the position of Labour or the Government that people with children should not work and should not be supported into work; that is very much part of the equation. Will the hon. Gentleman reflect on that and think about what happens when people’s circumstances change? This is a safety net—a leg up—not a handout.”
“Let us be clear: this Government came in with a plan to tackle child poverty, but quite rightly set up a taskforce to deal with it under two excellent Secretaries of State, and now with my right hon. Friend the Minister for Social Security and Disability at the helm as well. That is why this policy has happened now and did not happen immediately. It would have been a bad mistake to have dealt with this in a piecemeal fashion. Instead, we now have a whole strategy, of which this is a part, as is helping parents into work.”
“As well as the British Business Bank, the National Wealth Fund plays a crucial part in investing taxpayers’ money. I welcome the Government’s response to the Select Committee’s report on that issue. Will the Minister indicate when the National Wealth Fund will have the ability to borrow from private markets in order to increase its independence, secure funding for infrastructure, and get the taxpayer off the hook?”
“I should first declare that I am a leaseholder. I welcome very warmly the Minister’s statement, particularly the measure on commonhold, which is something that we Co-op MPs have been campaigning on for a long time. We also welcome that the cap on ground rents is in sight. There are issues in my constituency relating to the fact that a lot of my leaseholders are shared owners. Could the Minister tell us now—or write to me with the details—how shared ownership might be impacted by the changes? Could he also reassure us, given the complexities, that there will be some Government support, such as an advice hub or something to point people in the right direction, when it comes to how people will move from where they are to commonhold?”
“Businesses of all types, including pubs, need certainty most of all, so that they know the trajectory in good time and can plan.”
“I welcome the support for music venues as well as pubs in my constituency. I also welcome the Minister’s engagement and willingness to speak to the Select Committee and to be questioned by us. I am sure, Mr Speaker, you would agree that it would increase the Minister’s favour in your eyes were he to do that with dispatch and not leave it for too many weeks, so I thank the Minister for his engagement on that. On the wider issues of business rates, changes have been announced, but will the Minister outline the timeframe within which we will see a significant change? It was a Labour manifesto commitment to change business rates, but it will take time because of the valuation procedure. Does he propose to change that wholesale, and in what timeframe?”
“I welcome the announcement by the Home Secretary. In London, we have long known that neighbourhood policing is vital. Only yesterday I was in Dalston, where there has been a lot of antisocial behaviour, and people have noticed the extra police on the streets. There has, though, been an issue of abstraction in London, where officers often have to backfill blue light officers or police national demonstrations. How will the Home Secretary plan this process to ensure that that does not happen, and that those teams are dedicated to neighbourhoods?”
“I had the privilege of chairing the Public Accounts Committee for nearly a decade, and in that role I saw the challenges caused by how poor data often is across Government. In one hearing, for example, we learned that Government Departments have 13 different ways of recording an individual’s address, and there are many other issues around data. Is the Minister alert to those issues, and how will he tackle them to make sure that this system is watertight?”
“My right hon. Friend is taking exactly the right approach. This place is littered with legislation that turns out not to be as good as it should have been, and then it does not get amended—and late amendments are not a good thing either. My hon. Friend the Member for Battersea (Marsha De Cordova) highlighted some of the important health impacts. Will the Secretary of State proactively seek information from health specialists, including psychologists such as Sarah-Jayne Blakemore, who is very expert in the teenage brain?”
“Many pubs in my constituency are seeing eye-watering increases in business rates. We know from the Valuation Office Agency, which gave evidence to the Treasury Committee last week, that the formula used is the same formula that has been used for 20 years. This should have been no surprise, as the shadow Chancellor said, yet we learned in that meeting that more than 2,000 pubs have had their business rates doubled. This Government came in with a mission to transform business rates, and they came in part way through a valuation cycle. Aside from the question of what will happen to the hospitality sector, where are the plans for the reform of business rates in the medium to long term?”
“In a response to a question from my hon. Friend the Member for Poole (Neil Duncan-Jordan), the Minister was full-throated in his support for music venues. What conversations has the Department had with the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government about planning for music venues? The Moth club in Hackney is potentially under threat from a planning issue, and it is vital that the Departments work together to preserve our music venues.”
“I welcome my hon. Friend’s explanation from the Dispatch Box of the change. We have been here before; we issued identity cards, as they were, when the technology was much older, so I welcome the new approach. We already do many things online that involve the Government and our proving who we are, including tax and the renewal of driving licences. Can he confirm these three points? For this scheme to work, it must not be mandatory; the digital ID must not be a requirement to access a public service; and for those who choose not to, or cannot, have one—including some of the 10% that he mentioned—there need to be really clear and established workarounds, so that they do not see a diminished service.”
“I am sure that, like me and others, the Leader of the House will be pleased to learn that NHS waiting lists continue to drop. I am also sure he will agree that Homerton hospital, which has seen productivity on operations increase by more than 11% year on year, is a beacon of what can be done. I hope he will join me in congratulating Hackney council, which has facilitated the provision of two new general practices and 50,000 extra appointments, because we need to ensure people get decent primary care so that they stop going into hospital.”
“I congratulate my right hon. Friend on securing this investment. We are hearing some real chutzpah from the Opposition, who seem to have forgotten that it was they who imposed the ban on onshore wind. We need to remember who is in favour of tackling the issue of green energy and bringing down bills. The other side of this, however, is getting the electricity to constituencies such as mine. What progress is being made on upgrading the grid, and what timeline has my right hon. Friend for conveying the electricity to people who need it?”
“Earlier, Ministers talked about the benefits of bus services. In London we have been at the forefront of improved bus services, but unfortunately some aspects of that, such as low-traffic neighbourhoods, have had an impact on main routes, and now the No. 38 bus route is under threat of curtailment. Is the Department for Transport doing any strategic work on how we see those interactions, so that it can advise mayors and others in local areas on how to manage the interaction between different transport uses on our roads to ensure that buses run fast and deliver for the people who really rely on them?”
“Is it not time for a debate in Government time about the great stuff that the Government are doing on buses, so that Transport Ministers can learn from MPs across the country, and so that we share best practice and learn from each other?”
“As you know, Mr Speaker, we had a good discussion at Transport questions about bus services. Many Members from across this House are passionate about that issue, because bus services are such an easy way for people to get around, and they make transport accessible, financially and otherwise. In London, bus ridership has dropped by 23%; there are a number of issues, but I am particularly concerned about the 38 bus route. Consultation is under way on curtailing that route, so that it only goes as far as Holborn in the Prime Minister’s constituency. That might be good for him, but we all want to go as far as Victoria and theatreland. A number of MPs from across the House are concerned about this.”
“T2. Banister House in Homerton in my constituency was the first community energy scheme in Hackney with solar panels on the roof, and it is the UK’s largest such scheme on social housing. The forthcoming local power plan will provide an opportunity for others to follow where Hackney has led. Could the Secretary of State give some detail about its roll-out, so we all know how we can prepare to bid for it?”
“Hackney council was the subject of a major cyber-attack in 2020. It did a good job, though it was very slow because of the nature of the challenge of getting things back up and running. The Bill is therefore very welcome but, pursuant to the answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Chesterfield (Mr Perkins), there are challenges for some of the smaller companies. I represent Shoreditch, which has many tech companies that need to maintain a standard on cyber-security but are small. How is the Minister going to balance the regulation for those smaller companies to ensure that they can keep abreast of things but are not so dampened down that they cannot progress and grow?”
“Last year, the Treasury Committee wrote to the top 10 banks in the UK because there had been a number of outages. There was no suggestion that cyber-security attacks were involved in most cases. A trend in the responses was that third-party software providers are often the source of the issue. What is the Minister’s thinking about how to involve the banking sector in the scope of the Bill?”
“A constituent of mine suffered a terrible rape in Hong Kong which was not properly investigated. Her statement was made with the use of Google Translate, and no rape kit was taken. She then found herself being accused of something else as a result, and will have been in the system for two years in January. She trusted that the legal system in Hong Kong would support her, but in taking on the case of a black British woman, her lawyers have taken a risk. Does the Foreign Secretary have confidence in the legal system in Hong Kong, and is there anything that we can do to support my constituent?”
“I welcome that response and the fact that the Government are leaning into this issue, because it is causing a great deal of risk. One of the challenges is that in order to upgrade bikes and extend their range, people often buy these batteries from non-regulated suppliers, and those are the dangerous ones. Will the Minister look further into how the Department could work with the rest of Government to try to regulate illegal sales?”
“It has been a rocky week for the Office for Budget Responsibility, so I am glad that the Chief Secretary to the Treasury recognises and has reiterated the value of an independent regulator in this space. Nevertheless, a lot of criticism of the OBR is swirling around. Would the Chief Secretary or the Chancellor like to remind people about the role of the fiscal risks and sustainability report, which does look longer term at the economy, and the importance that this has in planning? As the Chancellor said, it is not destiny just because of the figures, but that report is particularly useful in that respect.”
“When I last spoke in this House, Richard Hughes was still chair of the OBR. I pay tribute to him. He was a tenacious champion for its independence. A highly intellectual man, he ably led that organisation and made an honourable decision to take responsibility for what happened last Wednesday. The Minister says that a leak inquiry is under way in the Treasury; leak inquiries have a habit of not finding someone responsible. But if somebody is found responsible, will they follow the lead set by Richard Hughes?”
“I commend my hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and Leamington (Matt Western) for steering the report through his Joint Committee swiftly and sensitively, and for managing sensitive data. It is a great example of how the Committee corridor can really contribute to transparency for the public, and I look forward to the Government’s response. However, there are sensitive matters that are not covered by the existing scrutiny Committees of this House. I hope that the Minister will, on the basis of this example, be an advocate in Government for the establishment of a new Committee that can cover matters that do not currently have oversight because of their sensitivity.”
“I, too, welcome the fact that the OBR has put its report out so quickly, so that it can put its house in order and make sure this never happens again. I have been saddened and troubled by the number of leaks, advertent and inadvertent, during the Budget process. Will the Chief Secretary please assure the House that there will be proper discussion in Government about how to prevent them? I need only point him to the words of the permanent secretary at the Treasury to the Treasury Committee on 12 February this year, when he was very clear that leaks can be market moving and must not happen. Let us be clear that the Debt Management Office was still trading during the Budget process, and was selling gilts at a higher price as a result.”
“Children are sharing beds with their siblings or parents, and turning up to school tired. Every weekend, I visit people in my constituency and see this challenge. Just last weekend, a woman showed me the bedroom that she shares with her now disabled husband, who had a stroke three years ago. There was a curtain between their double bed and a narrow space so that her daughter could share their room. Luckily, they have a second bedroom, where her two sons sleep in a bunk bed. That is the reality for so many children, and the poverty has an impact on their learning and their ability to perform in the world. It is a shameful stain on this country that when the present Government came to power, the UK ranked 37th out of 39 advanced economies in respect of child poverty.”
“Friend will give His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs more powers to pursue promoters of tax avoidance schemes; we know what the problems have been in that regard. The Treasury Committee has the privilege and the responsibility of challenging HMRC regularly, and when its representatives appear before us in January, we will be able to ask them more about the matter. I have been thinking about why we need a Labour Government, and one of the central planks for me, as a constituency MP, was the issue of child poverty. We need a Labour Government because of what the Conservative party did to children living in poverty. There are now 4.5 million such children, and the figure has risen by nearly 1 million since 2012. Two million of them are in deep poverty. One in three live below the poverty line, in 2025, in the United Kingdom.”