Gareth Thomas
MP for Harrow West · Labour (Co-op) · United Kingdom
“Local councils such as Harrow need to invest more in youth facilities that divert young people away from crime. Some of the CCTV projects in my constituency that Harrow council has turned down—in Wealdstone, south Harrow and central Harrow—should get funding.”
“I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Pendle and Clitheroe (Jonathan Hinder) on securing the debate and on the way in which he approached the subject. I join him and my hon.”
“I also want to suggest that the Metropolitan police does not get recognition across the whole of the UK for its hugely important work in tackling national and international crime, and that perhaps more recognition of that is required in the funding formula.”
“In particular, in Harrow, we recently saw enforcement teams contracted out to an organisation called Kingdom. The responsibility for that contract was with Harrow council. There was widespread criticism of the way some of the staff employed by Kingdom tried to levy fines on a number of young people in south Harrow, in my constituency.”
“One way we can further support the Metropolitan police is by allowing it to keep more of the proceeds from successful operations, such as recovering stolen funds hidden in bitcoin assets. I congratulate my hon.”
“Mayor of London Sadiq Khan has done a huge amount to try to redirect funding from other parts of his budget to minimise the impact of that cut.”
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“We will take forward 150 cases almost as a pilot process and will take stock at the end of that process to see what further work and further tweaks to the design of the scheme we need to make, so that we can deliver fair redress to all those victims of the Post office scandal, too.”
“I thank the hon. Gentleman for his work on the Business and Trade Committee, too. He gives me the opportunity to pay tribute to the noble Lord Beamish, who campaigned for a considerable period of time to bring the House’s attention to the issue of Capture sub-postmasters. No definitive number exists of how many Post Office branches used Capture. There is a rough estimate that some 13.5% of all Post Office agency branches—roughly 18,000 between 1992 and 2000—used Capture before the Horizon system was rolled out in 1999. Given the lack of evidence, we are very much trying to learn the lessons from some of the Horizon compensation schemes in the way in which we design the Capture scheme.”
“On her point more generally about the role of Fujitsu, there is no question but that Fujitsu wants to move out of responsibility for the Horizon system, and I suspect we all want Fujitsu to move out of working with the Post Office. None the less, we need Fujitsu at the moment to continue to maintain the Horizon system, which is key to the work of Post Office branches up and down the country in all our communities, while we work at pace to put in place a better system going forward.”
“My hon. Friend has been one of those who campaigned consistently over a long period of time for justice for sub-postmasters, in particular for her constituent Chris Head. I hope he and she will recognise that one of the recommendations in Sir Wyn’s report that we confirmed today we will accept is in no small part due to Mr Head and her campaigning on that particular question. My hon. Friend is absolutely right that there is a moral obligation on Fujitsu to contribute to the cost of the scandal. That has been clear for a long time. I welcome the fact that Fujitsu has acknowledged that and has begun discussions with the Government. Sir Wyn’s report today further underlines the case for Fujitsu to make an interim payment towards the costs of the scandal.”
“I commend the right hon. Gentleman for his campaigning on this issue. I know that he has continued to push different Governments and different Post Office Ministers on the issues around this scandal, and I have no doubt that he will continue to do so. He is absolutely right that the people responsible for this scandal need to be held to account. Sir Wyn’s further report will lay bare who is responsible, and the work of the police is ongoing. As I said earlier, 100 police officers are working on this case. They are in touch with sub-postmaster representatives and have identified a series of people who are of interest to their inquiry. As he will understand, Ministers are rightly not involved in those specific discussions, but we are watching with great interest the progress of that police inquiry.”
“My hon. Friend raises a significant issue, and one that I have no doubt had a bearing on the way in which the scandal unfolded. She will understand that for a formal view on who was responsible and what went wrong, we need to wait for the final report from Sir Wyn Williams. But it is quite clear that a significant number of sub-postmasters from an ethnic minority are still waiting for compensation, as indeed a generally significant number of postmasters are waiting for compensation. We need to ensure that all those from an ethnic minority receive compensation, as equally we must give priority to every single person who has yet to receive compensation.”
“There is no question but that the compensation process has taken far too long. The scandal could have been stopped a lot earlier. Everybody who was a victim of the scandal should have had compensation—certainly by the time we took office. Having said that, we have set out to speed up the delivery of compensation. We have quadrupled the amount of compensation paid out to victims of the scandal. We have moved at pace to plug some of the obvious gaps in the compensation process. I completely accept the challenge made by the hon. Gentleman, by others across the House, and indeed by sub-postmasters who have yet to receive compensation, that there is still a lot more to do.”
“I have absolutely no doubt that we need to see, in full, who was responsible for this disaster and why. Sir Wyn Williams’s work on that is critical. We await his final report, which will look at what happened, why, and who was responsible. That transparency will be hugely important to help the Post Office, and the country as a whole, to learn lessons from this appalling scandal. If we need to introduce measures to ensure that the Post Office is never in such a position again, we will certainly look to bring them forward.”
“In that regard, the National Audit Office published important work last summer, which will certainly help to inform our judgment about the case for such a standing body.”
“To be clear, Sir Wyn Williams’ recommendation of a standing body to deliver compensation is very much to ensure that if there is ever a future disaster on this scale—and we all hope that there is not—the Government are better set up to respond to it. He has not specifically suggested that we transfer into such a body the responsibility for the delivery of compensation schemes at this stage, because doing so would undoubtedly slow down the process. I think that there are parallels with the infected blood inquiry, but there are also differences. We need to learn lessons on the delivery of compensation from the infected blood scandal, the Post Office scandal and other scandals that came before.”
“I take this opportunity to commend my hon. Friend for his consistent campaigning on this issue. He is absolutely right to underline the moral responsibility that Fujitsu has to contribute to the cost of the scandal. I welcome the fact that Fujitsu has accepted that it has such a moral obligation. I have made it clear to Fujitsu that I think it should bring forward an interim payment, and discussions with it have begun, as I said, but it will be important that we receive the final report from Sir Wyn Williams to understand properly the scale of Fujitsu’s responsibility going forward, as compared with the responsibility of other players in this appalling scandal. I am absolutely clear that Fujitsu does have a clear responsibility. It could begin to act now, and I hope that it does so.”
“The hon. Lady makes an important and significant point and gives me the opportunity to comment on that particular constituency case, which she and I have discussed a couple of times. She is absolutely right when she alludes to the fact that there are victims of the scandal who have not yet come forward or, perhaps for a number of reasons, put in compensation claims. I hope that the publication of Sir Wyn’s report, and his comments—the criticisms and challenge to the Government on going further, as well as the reassurance that he has offered—will give those who have not yet put in a claim the confidence to do so. On the specific case that she knows very well and has discussed with me, I am determined to move forward. I have taken a number of steps to do so, and I will come back to her.”
“On the right hon. Gentleman’s direct challenge, I certainly want to do that. I completely share his view that every victim who still has not had compensation has waited too long, and that I in particular, and the whole House, have a responsibility to keep up the pressure to get full and fair compensation for those victims as quickly as possible. The right hon. Gentleman will recognise that we have made some progress in the last 12 months: we have quadrupled the amount of compensation that has been paid out and set up new compensation schemes to begin to address some of the obvious gaps. However, I completely accept the challenge that he, and perhaps Janet Skinner, posed: that we need to go further and faster.”
“The right hon. Gentleman referenced conversations that he has had with a number of sub-postmasters in his constituency, or in Northern Ireland more generally. If he wants to bring those cases to my attention outside this session, I would be very happy to look at them.”
“I recognise and understand why there is considerable scepticism across the House about the Post Office continuing to have any role in the delivery of any part of the compensation process. As I said, when I first came into this role, I looked very carefully at whether we should essentially start over and take the Post Office out of the compensation process. I was persuaded that if we did that, we would significantly delay still further the delivery of compensation to the victims. Sir Wyn Williams made a similar point today while making a series of recommendations to Government to go further and faster, in particular on the Horizon shortfall scheme. As I have alluded to, I am extremely sympathetic to his 19 recommendations. There are some that we need to look at in more detail before I come back to the House and, particularly, to Sir Wyn.”
“I am sure that the whole House appreciates the work that Sir Wyn Williams is doing to draw conclusions about what went wrong in the scandal, and about what more we need to do to learn the lessons and ensure that nothing like that ever happens again.”
“The right hon. Gentleman also rightly raised the matter of the difficulties that small and medium-sized businesses face when legal issues arise. Again, we will have more to say on that in the small business strategy shortly. Towards the end of his remarks, he made a powerful link to an appalling miscarriage of justice: the scandal of how the Post Office treated its sub-postmasters. There are many lessons to learn from that. I hope that he will take confidence from the Government’s determination to do that when he sees the Green Paper on the future of the Post Office, which we are seeking to bring forward.”
“We have already taken a number of measures to support SMEs. The Secretary of State for Business and Trade has already committed to establishing a business growth service inspired by the US Small Business Administration. That is why one of the outcomes of the spending review was a two-thirds increase in the capacity of the British Business Bank. The vast majority of that funding will go to help tackle the considerable challenges that SMEs face in accessing the right forms of financial support. The right hon. Gentleman rightly raised the issue of access to public procurement for British SMEs. I am sympathetic about the need to open up public procurement to SMEs. Again, we will have more to say on that in the small business strategy, when it is published shortly. Cabinet Office colleagues are very much working in this space, too.”
“Member for South Holland and The Deepings about small and medium-sized businesses being the backbone of our communities. They are important; they are fundamental to the strength of each of our constituencies. The Government are determined to do much more to support our SMEs going forward. That is why, on the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Reading Central, we will publish a strategy for supporting SMEs. The right hon. Member for South Holland and The Deepings was right that we as a country should do more to celebrate our entrepreneurs and to champion their interests. They are brave; they are risk takers; they create wealth; and they make all our communities better and richer. We are determined to encourage more people to come forward as entrepreneurs, to take risks and succeed, and to grow businesses.”
“In the usual way, I thank the right hon. Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Sir John Hayes) for securing this debate. Having crossed swords with him when our positions were reversed, I approached this debate with particular wariness, not least because he has assembled a very distinguished cross-party group of Members to participate in this debate. We heard from not only the right hon. Gentleman, but the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith), my hon. Friends the Members for Stockport (Navendu Mishra), for North Durham (Luke Akehurst) and for Reading Central (Matt Rodda), and the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness (Richard Tice). Each of them made important points. I very much agreed with the opening remarks of the right hon.”
“The franchising industry is covered by the same general protections in law as other businesses, and I will come on to some of those in a moment. In addition, the franchising industry also effectively self-regulates through the British Franchise Association, which has a code of ethics, and the Quality Franchise Association, which provides a code of conduct. On the whole, as the House will recognise, there are significant advantages to self-regulation: greater flexibility and responsiveness, and lower costs.”
“Gentleman said, and as I am sure he will understand, I am unable to comment on ongoing legal disputes, but I will respond on behalf of the Government as best I can, given the ongoing nature of the case. Until now, there has not been sustained concern about the quality or effectiveness of the self-regulation of franchises in general. However, I recognise that this case has raised concerns across the House, and I will track very carefully what happens in this case, the final outcome, and the conclusion of any court case. As hon. Members will no doubt be aware, franchising is growing in the UK, and it makes a big contribution to our economy, at just over £19 billion annually, according to the latest British Franchise Association survey.”
“I have already given a flavour of what might be in the small business strategy. I will leave the right hon. Gentleman to wait a little longer, if I may—he will have to forgive me—before he sees the strategy in full. Let me come to the substance of the right hon. Gentleman’s concern. He rightly and understandably mentioned the experiences of a number of franchise operators who allege mistreatment and being badly let down by Vodafone during covid. No one in the Chamber will have failed to have been moved by those stories. I have read a number of them in correspondence from colleagues on both sides of the House. There are, without question, serious allegations being levelled at Vodafone. As the right hon.”
“My hon. Friend will forgive me, but I will not comment on the particular circumstances of Vodafone and its relationship with franchisees in general, or those former franchisees who are bringing court action. However, I note his comment.”
“There are other forms of legislation, too, including the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977, which may apply to business-to-business contracts. That references the application of a reasonableness test, but that again is a matter for dedicated legal advice.”
“The Government of course encourage anyone entering a business contract such as a franchise to seek independent legal advice before agreeing to the terms and conditions laid out in those agreements. I have talked a little bit about self-regulation and its benefits, and I alluded earlier to the fact that there are existing protections in law that cover all businesses, including franchises. For example, under the Misrepresentation Act 1967, anyone who has entered into a contract as a result of misrepresentation may be able to rescind the contract and claim damages. Misrepresentation is a false statement by one party to another that induces that person to enter the contract. Ultimately, it would be for the courts to decide whether a misrepresentation had occurred and what the remedy would be.”
“That freedom allows franchise agreements to be tailored to individual needs. People can set up shop more easily on the high street or elsewhere with the power of a big brand behind them. On the whole, self-regulation also allows the franchise industry to set standards and guidelines based on deep, industry-specific expertise. It allows the industry to adapt more quickly to market changes, too. It is my understanding that the franchise agreements are the main instruments governing the relationship between franchisors and franchisees. Those agreements normally cover key issues such as fees, territory rights, contract duration and dispute resolution mechanisms.”
“As I said, I recognise that this case has raised concerns across the House about the quality and effectiveness of the legislation that governs franchisees and, indeed, other businesses, and about the arrangements around franchisees, and their relationships. As I say, up to now, we have not had significant representations that the quality of regulation of franchises is not adequate. However, I recognise the concerns across the House that this case has brought up, and as a result, I will track very carefully how the court case unfolds. I was noting the advantages that, on occasion, self-regulation brings. They include freedom when it comes to contracting. Individuals and businesses have the right to enter into agreements and set their own terms, free from unnecessary Government interference.”
“I am happy to continue conversations about this case and its implications outside the Chamber. Question put and agreed to.”
“Our modern industrial strategy also includes an ambitious package of regulatory reforms that will support our growth-driving sectors and the wider economy, but as we stated at its launch, that is not the end of the journey; it is just the beginning. Where there are changes that we can make to increase the UK’s economic resilience and channel support to the most productive parts of our economy, we want to continue to work with Members across this House to implement them. In conclusion, let me thank the right hon. Gentleman and other hon. Members who have participated in the debate. Franchise regulation is a complex and difficult issue and, as I have said, this particular case has raised concerns across the House. As I promised, I will continue to look closely at how the case develops and ultimately what conclusions are reached.”
“Gentleman touched on the additional regulation of franchises and the wider franchise model. As he will know, this Government are dedicated to implementing an ambitious regulatory reform agenda. In March, we published our action plan for regulation, outlining changes to streamline rules and regulations to support growth. While that plan includes a clear commitment to cut regulatory administrative costs for business by 25%, it also includes a commitment to strengthening accountability for regulators. That includes simplifying their duties to ensure that the regulatory environment focuses on growth, investment and, crucially, transparency.”
“Section 172 of the Companies Act 2006 already requires company directors to frame regard in their decision making to a wide range of stakeholder interests. That includes the impact of the company’s operations on the wider community. It also requires directors to have regard to the desirability of the company maintaining a reputation for high standards of business conduct. This requirement applies to a company’s business transactions, including the treatment of franchisees. Large companies must report annually on how their directors have complied with these requirements. Taken together, the section 172 duty helps to provide assurance that companies are run responsibly and that directors are mindful of the impact of their decision making beyond the company and its shareholders. The right hon.”
“It is important for companies, obviously, to conduct business fairly. We already have rules that encourage this, whether in relation to criminal offences of fraud, audit requirements or prompt payment reporting, which my Department has begun to strengthen and on which we will publish further proposals shortly. I am sure the right hon. Gentleman will agree that investors and the public expect and deserve access to truthful reporting from our most important businesses on their finances and related issues. This is critical for trust, and ultimately it is critical for economic growth. That is why, through the audit and corporate governance reform Bill, we are developing legislation to uphold standards and the independent scrutiny of companies’ accounts while ensuring real accountability for company directors.”
“The right hon. Gentleman made a very interesting speech with a series of interesting analogies, and I have noted those and the points that he made. As I have said, I will track this particular court case and its conclusions. I always try to make myself available when hon. and right hon. Members want to discuss particular issues that are pertinent to my brief, and as things unfold, I make that offer to the right hon. Gentleman too. I should stress again that only the courts can really decide on the application of contractual terms. It is absolutely right that affected businesses seek independent legal advice on the particular circumstances of their situation. As the right hon. Gentleman will be fully aware, legislation cannot prevent wrongdoing. It can deter and it can punish, but only after the event.”
“We will deliver on our manifesto commitment to create a fairer business rate system that protects the high street, supports investment and is fit for the 21st century. The Chancellor has committed to reforming business rates from 2026-27, with a permanently lower multiplier for retail, leisure and hospitality businesses. For many years the hospitality sector has asked for that, and we will deliver it. I recognise the contributions from a number of hon. Members about the situation in Scotland, where—despite having had their biggest ever increase in funding as a result of the decisions the Chancellor took last October—the Scottish Government have not chosen to extend hospitality relief in the fullest way to all hospitality businesses.”
“Let us not forget that this Government inherited a very challenging fiscal situation, which meant the Chancellor had to take difficult decisions in relation to tax and spending. Schools, police and local hospitals in all our constituencies are set to be better funded because of the difficult decisions she had to take in the Budget last year. The investment in infrastructure, or in social and affordable housing, that all our constituents need would not be happening without the decisions the Chancellor made last October. I know that many hospitality businesses have been impacted by those tough choices, but they are important for delivering the long-term stability and growth that our country needs and that our hospitality businesses, as well as the rest of the economy, will benefit from in the long run.”
“Hospitality businesses such as pubs support community cohesion. They provide welcoming spaces for those who feel isolated and alone to enjoy the company of others. In short, hospitality is the backbone of our high streets, towns and villages; it is the lifeblood of all our communities. I fully understand the significant challenges that the sector faces, many of which are a hangover from the pandemic lockdown restrictions and the cost of living crisis. Depleted cash reserves and increased debt levels have hampered the ability of many hospitality businesses to invest and grow. These challenges are sometimes not helped by a regulatory landscape that does not always function as effectively as it could, holding back growth from many hospitality operators, which simply want to grow and invest in their local communities.”
“Working in pubs, restaurants and bars is often a key entry point, particularly for young people who need to gain essential skills and experience to progress in life. It is also often an entry point for those being given a second chance in life. For example, the excellent Greene King is working with 65 prisons across the UK to provide inmates with hospitality training. The company aims to hire 400 prison leavers by the end of this year. The Pret Foundation does fantastic work with homeless people, and has an ambition to get 500 people who face homelessness into jobs in their stores by 2028. The hospitality sector’s unique ability to employ and train people from all walks of life makes its economic contribution so much more than just that. Hospitality is also crucial to our communities and personal lives.”
“They referenced the dynamic and creative hospitality sector in Cornwall, and I was grateful to have the chance to personally sample some of those opportunities recently. My hon. Friends also referenced the case for fair funding for Cornwall, and the significance of a partnership between Cornwall and Homes England. I will make sure that their points are heard by colleagues in the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government. The hospitality sector contributes over £50 billion to the UK economy, spread across all corners of the UK, and employs millions of people. The sector makes not just a significant economic contribution, but an important social one because, as one or two hon. Members referenced, hospitality is also an opportunity for people.”
“Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds), and the hon. Members for Ynys Môn (Llinos Medi), for Strangford (Jim Shannon), for South Northamptonshire (Sarah Bool), for West Dorset (Edward Morello) and for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim Farron). We also heard particularly important and strong contributions from my hon. Friends the Members for Truro and Falmouth (Jayne Kirkham) and for South East Cornwall (Anna Gelderd). They referenced the significance of the visitor economy for hospitality businesses, and I am sure that they will welcome the fact that, this autumn, the Department for Culture, Media and Sport will publish a new visitor economy strategy. That has been co-designed with the new Visitor Economy Advisory Council, which includes UKHospitality.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Butler, for I think the first time, and I hope it is the first of many. I congratulate the hon. Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire (Mike Wood) on securing this important debate. I recognise that he has long been an enthusiast for hospitality businesses in his constituency, and I welcome the opportunity to consider the important contribution that all hospitality businesses make to our communities up and down the country. Indeed, I think of some of the great hospitality businesses in Harrow, in my constituency, such as the great Trinity pub or the wonderful Battels café. As well as the hon. Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire, we heard from the hon. Member for Inverness, Skye and West Ross-shire (Mr MacDonald), the right hon.”
“We will also look at how the Hospitality Sector Council can help us to deliver on our priorities for wider investment and growth, and support work to reinvigorate our high streets. We all know that hospitality businesses are fundamental. They are crucial to our economy, crucial to our communities and fundamental to our high streets. And they matter to all of us individually, to our friends and to our families. The Government recognise the role of hospitality in creating places that people want to live, to work and to invest in, and we will continue to work in partnership with the industry to deliver growth and to break down barriers to opportunity.”
“We will of course continue to work closely with the Hospitality Sector Council to co-create solutions and achieve growth in collaboration with the industry. That includes identifying regulatory barriers to investment and growth, and addressing skills shortages. We have established Skills England. We are reforming the existing apprenticeship offer into a growth and skills levy that allows more flexibility for both employers and learners wanting to pursue the apprenticeship route. The Department for Education has said that it will explore one of the key asks of the hospitality sector—the idea of foundation apprenticeships for hospitality. We are determined to help the hospitality sector to continue to unlock innovations and improve sustainability, and in that way bring down its costs.”
“We are therefore working with hospitality businesses to develop exemptions for waste disposed of commercially through the use of agreed evidence to show that that would be highly unlikely to end up in household waste streams. Also, as we set out our ambitious plan to raise the minimum floor of employment rights, we will strike the right balance between fairness for workers and business investment and growth. Improving employment conditions benefits economic growth. It helps to put more money in employees’ pockets, which will help all businesses, including hospitality businesses, in the long term. We will do this by working in partnership with business, including the hospitality industry, to deliver our plan to make work pay, and we will consult on key proposals such as zero-hours contract reform in the autumn.”
“The industrial strategy will support the whole economy by creating an improved operating environment to create long-term stability and generate greater dynamism for new start-ups to emerge. Supporting industrial strategy sectors will have spillover benefits for the rest of the economy—from innovation pull-through to technology diffusion. As an example, growth in the creative industries will create spillover opportunities for hospitality businesses. As we look ahead, we will continue to work closely with the hospitality industry to co-create solutions to ensure that we generate growth together. In particular, we will work with the sector to iron out the issues that are of most concern. For example, we understand the current challenges relating to dual-use packaging under the extended producer responsibility scheme.”
“In addition, we are extending the growth guarantee scheme, where Government will help smaller businesses to access loans and other kinds of finance up to £2 million, by covering 70% of the potential losses for lenders. Later this summer, we will publish our strategy to support SMEs over the long term. The paper will focus on boosting scale-ups across key policy areas, such as creating thriving high streets, making it easier to access finance, opening up overseas and domestic markets, building business capabilities and providing a strong business environment. The SME strategy will complement the industrial strategy in helping to create the conditions for further economic growth.”
“We recently launched a licensing taskforce to come up with recommendations for cutting red tape and removing barriers to business growth. We have received a report from the licensing taskforce containing many extremely interesting and thoughtful proposals, and we will make an announcement on our response to the taskforce work shortly. We have also introduced a hospitality support scheme to co-fund projects, aligned with the priorities of the Department for Business and Trade and the Hospitality Sector Council. That includes support initiatives such as Pub is the Hub, to encourage local investment in rural communities—the hon. Member for South Northamptonshire made a point about that.”
“The hon. Gentleman is right to make his point. One would hope that the Scottish Government would be as committed to taking action as the Government here in the UK. I hope he and other Scottish colleagues will see a change of heart and approach from the Scottish Government. I understand the sector’s concerns about employers’ national insurance contributions. We are protecting the smallest businesses by increasing the employment allowance to £10,500. That means 865,000 employers will pay no national insurance contributions at all, and more than half of employers will see no change or gain from the package. The majority of hospitality businesses are micro-sized, so many will benefit from the increase. We are also committed to reducing the regulatory burdens facing the hospitality sector.”
“That will allow local communities to determine for themselves how best to design their bus services, so that they genuinely have control over routes and schedules, helping both local communities and—crucially, in the context of this debate—rural businesses.”
“The Government fully recognise the immense potential for growth in our rural areas. That is why we are committed to creating the right conditions to allow rural enterprises of all kinds to thrive and succeed. First, we are taking steps to improve rural infrastructure —the keys to unlocking that growth potential. The hon. Member for North Norfolk waxed lyrical about the significance of rural bus services, which I absolutely accept. He will be only too aware of the significance of the decisions, to which I think he alluded, that the Bus Services (No. 2) Bill will bring into force. It will put decision making about what bus routes should be provided into the hands of local leaders across England, including in rural areas.”