Dame Siobhain McDonagh
MP for Mitcham and Morden · Labour · United Kingdom
“Q5. In a capital city still scarred by the loss of 72 lives in the Grenfell fire, we have a second equally flammable and deadly risk. In bedrooms and corridors across London, low-paid deliverers for Deliveroo, Just Eat and Uber Eats are charging the tools of their trade: lethal lithium e-bike batteries.”
“I am therefore delighted that NHS London announced up to £57 million to expand and modernise St Helier’s emergency department. However, that cannot be the end. St Helier needs renewal. Only days later, there was an announcement that disrepair in the women’s services block meant that it would have to close.”
“The walk-in centre at the Wilson hospital in Mitcham, which once treated patients every day until midnight, even on Christmas day, has gone. Out-of-hours GP services have been reduced. Those patients have not disappeared; they now go to St Helier.”
“A number of constituents who work as nurses in the A&E department at St Helier hospital asked me to come to see for myself what they were dealing with. They asked me to come late on a Monday morning, rather than a Saturday or Sunday night as I had anticipated. What I saw was deeply troubling.”
“St Helier hospital has the fourth best maternity unit in the country, the only exclusively NHS-run assisted conception unit in south-west London, and a specialist gynaecology ward where nurses are highly trained in counselling. Yet all that is set to close next May because of the need for emergency repairs.”
“I thank the Petitions Committee and my friends from Brain Cancer Justice, who I affectionately think of as the provisional wing of the all-party parliamentary group on brain tumours. In July last year, we launched Margaret’s trial at University College London hospital.”
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“I further understand that those works are approximately two thirds of the way through and that the programme continues to upgrade and make safer the gas pipes that are deemed to be of high risk. There is a “but”. Under the coalition Government, the funding for that programme was cut. Many pipes that were originally set for replacement were suddenly to remain operational. While it is vital that the investigation determines whether the size and material of the pipe had any part to play in this tragedy, it must quickly be established whether this pipe was originally designated for replacement before the funding was cut by the Government. Why? Because there are other 36-inch cast-iron pipes around the country that are not set to be replaced. Will the Minister confirm that he will urgently review this matter and the funding of the programme?”
“There is clearly a systemic issue that needs fixing so that this does not happen to any other community in their time of crisis. I turn now to the ongoing gas pipe replacement programme around the country. The pipes under Galpin’s road are described as the M25 of gas pipes, running down a densely populated area. How can this possibly be allowed in 2022 when we have known for almost 50 years that pipes such as these represent a risk? Have people's previous tragedies not been enough? Some context here is important. It was a 36-inch cast-iron pipe on Galpin's road. I understand that a tragic gas explosion in Scotland led to a gas mains replacement programme across the UK.”
“I need answers, not excuses.” I am encouraging the council to help resolve Sana’s case as a matter of urgency. Meanwhile, who should be responsible for providing the emergency accommodation for owner-occupiers when no one has accepted liability? The reality is that insurers were warning residents that they would be unable to pay out without being able to attend the location to assess the damage. They could not access the road because it was a crime scene. What more evidence could they possibly need when they could see the damage as the top story on the national news? The council stepped in when in many cases it clearly should have been the insurers. There needs to be clarity. I put on record my thanks to Chris Rumsey from the Association of British Insurers for taking up so many individual cases.”
“I made the phone call to SGN on 30th July 2022, to save every single resident that lives on Galpin’s Road. What did I get as a result of this phone call? I tried to help and warn of a possible gas explosion and my own daughter and in turn our family are victims of such an explosion just days later. A dead child. I am the one who lost my beloved daughter. How does that make any sense? I called that number and I've been sentenced to life. What I find absolutely outrageous is that 10 weeks after this horrific tragedy, my children and I are still sleeping on the floor. As if we have not been through enough, we are still homeless. Why have we not been offered housing? Because at this stage I am getting sick and tired of hearing, week after week that the police are doing their job.”
“This is one of an abundance of questions that I think should be considered at the very highest level. It seems to me that when a tragedy such as this happens, the local council is left on their own. Why is Government support not immediately offered? Who should pick up the support bill? Most importantly, in a disaster such as this, who should be responsible for supporting the grieving family? Given the number of stakeholders, and the volume of important information being shared with them, I believe that there should be a single point of contact to support them. The Government should have a role to play. Sana has asked me to share the following quote with Members today: “My four children and I are Victims of the gas explosion that sadly occurred on Galpin’s road.”
“An evacuation point was immediately set up at the New Horizon Centre in Pollards Hill thanks to the support of Commonside Trust, led by Naomi Martin and her team. They have always been the pride of our community, and they were there for Pollards Hill in our community’s gravest hour. As residents fled to the evacuation centre, an army of staff from Merton Council were tasked with booking hundreds of hotel rooms across London for an indefinite, unknown period of time. It took a monumental effort, with the council needing to provide immediate accommodation, food, financial support, clothes and supplies to hundreds of residents. Support should have come from the Government. I wrote to the Secretary of State on Friday 12 August calling for financial assistance; it took seven weeks to receive a reply.”
“In the words of her grieving mum: “Sahara was the most incredible little girl. Our pride and our joy. Our community will always remember her.” The blast also hospitalised two of Sahara’s neighbours, causing severe injuries. I know that everyone involved and watching the debate will join me in praying for their full and speedy recovery. We say to their loved ones watching the debate that we will stand with them through what must be such an unimaginably worrying time. Over the following 24 hours, hundreds of residents from Galpin’s Road were evacuated from their homes. They were given a moment’s notice, at best grabbing scattered belongings and, at worst, leaving with just the clothes on their backs. Almost 11 weeks on, many are still unable to return.”
“Those same residents need the investigation to confirm that their concerns had been heard, why the problem took so long to fix and whether the reporting mechanism for smelling gas is still fit for purpose. No matter how the investigation determines the tragedy to have happened, we must ensure that it never, ever happens again. The blast occurred shortly after 7 am, when some residents were getting ready for work. Some were still asleep. All say that it was indescribable. There was the horrifying fear of what was happening, the volume of the noise and the terrifying shaking of their homes. They fled into the street to witness the damage and rubble that the explosion had caused and to hear the streets of Pollards Hill filled with the worrying sound of emergency sirens racing to their road. Four-year-old Sahara died later that day.”
“I look up to them in the Gallery and say loud and clear that I have never been more proud to be their MP. There are constraints to what I can say in the debate. There is a live investigation, and I am sure that everyone in the Chamber and the Gallery recognises just how important it is that I do not say anything that could be a barrier to justice for Sahara. However, I promise all Galpin’s Road residents watching that I will raise their concerns and questions to the furthest possible point today without jeopardising the justice that they so desperately want and need. I will start by explaining to the Minister what happened. On the morning of Monday 8 August, a huge gas explosion shook the heart of Galpin’s Road. For over a week, residents including Sahara’s family had been reporting the smell of gas on their street.”
“Shortly after 7 am on Monday 8 August, a gas explosion caused devastation in my constituency, changing the lives of the residents of Galpin’s Road forever. Beautiful four-year-old Sahara tragically lost her life. Her brave mum, Sana, and her grieving family are watching these proceedings online. I say to them: “This debate is in memory of Sahara, and I pledge to stand with your family every step of the way on your fight for justice to come.” Madam Deputy Speaker, as we have just discussed, the Public Gallery is filled with Sahara’s neighbours from right along Galpin’s Road. They were asked to move out of their homes with no notice, no belongings and no idea of when they would return. Many remain evacuated to this day. Their strength and fortitude have been nothing short of remarkable in the extraordinarily difficult months since.”
“The starting point must be that we have to consider the variety of ways in which people can provide banking services. That said, we know that, locally, branches can be important for communities. It is not just branches. It is a point at which people can deposit money and take out money. You can have a variety of those. They can be branches or post offices. They can be what we are trying to encourage the industry to develop when they close branches.”
“Q The FCA announced in June that you would be strengthening the protection of access to banking services. Some might say that this was closing the stable door after the horse has bolted, given that 50% of branches in town centres have now closed. What powers does the FCA currently have to protect banking services, and why were you not doing that before? Sheldon Mills: Thank you very much for the question. The first framing point to this question is to understand that banking services have and are changing, and there are many, many benefits of those changes. The move towards digitalisation of banking services provides a huge amount of support to many people who are vulnerable. My mother is deaf and the change to a digital means of banking services has transformed her life completely.”
“In terms of access to cash, the majority of the population—99.7% of the UK population—is within 5 km of a free-access cashpoint. We welcome the Government’s proposals on access-to-cash legislation so that we can get greater powers to ensure certain aspects of access to cash.”
“Q Sorry, but my question is: what powers do you have and what are you doing? Sheldon Mills: I am coming to it. In the light of that, what we have sought to do as we have seen firms decide to close their branches in the face of changing to digitalisation—there is the cost of keeping branches, which are very underutilised—is ensure that they look very closely at the alternatives to those branches when they go through those closure plans. We have had branch closure guidance in place for almost a year now. We work very closely with all the largest lenders and institutions to monitor their branch closure activity and ensure that they are providing appropriate services to those who need them in those localities as they seek to close some of those branches.”
“We are working very closely with LINK, which is currently helping the banks with the banking hubs, and seeking to get them to pick up that pace.”
“Sheldon Mills: We are using our existing “treating customers fairly” principle in order to put pressure on banks to ensure that they are looking after those customers that you talk about, who are vulnerable, in those communities and providing them with alternatives to branches if they close. Our updated guidance, which is stronger, asks for those alternatives to be in place before they close that last branch in town. It also deals with partial closures and issues such as that. I have been out to many local communities in order to see the impact of branch closures, and I have been public in terms of saying to the banks that they need to pick up the pace in relation to the alternatives for those communities: banking hubs, mobile banking and other activity.”
“Q I am really pleased that your mother gets good access to banking services. Unfortunately, that does not extend to a lot of the people in my constituency who do not feel able to use online services, either because they do not have access to the internet or know how to use the internet or because they are frightened because they are worried about being scammed. As I understand the current rules, it is only when the last bank in town closes that there is there any consideration of banking hubs or other facilities. That is far too late for the vulnerable customers that my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle referred to in her earlier question. What power does the FCA have to do something real to help those excluded customers, and what extra powers would you need in order to make that real?”
“Q But you are not slowing the number of branch closures, and people are still experiencing these difficulties in Mitcham. Please: I would love you to come to Mitcham— Sheldon Mills: I would be very happy to do so.”
“It is important that all the institutions—I will not mention individual institutions—should be willing to speak to their customers and their communities as they close branches, because that is the way to understand what alternatives they need to be providing to those services. We recently worked with a major provider and we got it to pause its branch closures while it made a significant assessment and researched the needs of the local community, and then it was able to provide for that, so we are proactive in relation to this. I would be very happy to come to Mitcham and understand what is going on there.”
“Q In the case of the Halifax, I could not even convince the Halifax to come to a public meeting to talk to people about their experiences. The banks are just carrying on in the way they have always carried on—with hope of some service tomorrow. We are told that the post office will be great, but what if the post office is not accessible? What if people are worried about accessing cash right in the middle of other people and fearful of not being able to hang on to their money? What if they are disabled and just cannot get into their post office branch? These are the things that are really happening, whatever the current regulations are. Sheldon Mills: Yes, these are real, genuine issues for people and I do understand them. We have researched some of the ways in which people access cash but also branches.”
“Q Lovely. You will be very welcome; the people there would love to meet you. Finally—I crave your indulgence, Mr Sharma—I want to ask about access to cash. For most people’s constituents, access to cash is only any good if it is access to free cash withdrawal.”
“If people have to pay £1.99 every time they try to access £10 from a machine to keep them going for the week, that is a huge premium on being poor. In Pollards Hill in my constituency, we have only two pay-for machines, and that is what happens on a daily basis—people have to pay £1.99 for every bit of money that they get out. People take small amounts of money to try to control their budgets. We were delighted when the Co-op came to the parade, but it could not get free cash machines because its lease prevented it from having one.”
“Q I thank Which? for all the work it has done about the imperative of free access to cash. I do not think any of us are surprised that the Post Office announced that it had £3.45 billion taken out in cash in August, which is the highest figure since its records began. Does the Bill ensure that people will have free access to cash, or is there a need for an amendment to be very specific about that? Paddy Greene: I think we need to be specific about the need for consumers to have free access to cash. I have concerns that the Bill could be interpreted in a way that undermines those objectives. We absolutely welcome the provision of cash legislation and I am very happy to see it here, but this is our opportunity to get it right. Consumers need confidence that they will have free access.”
“If, for example, you were in Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle, you would be paying around £70,000 to access your own money. Say you lived in the SNP constituency of West Dunbartonshire —I cannot say it; I should have practised that before I came—people are paying £64,700 in that constituency to get access to their own money. I hope that is a good representation of why we need to tackle it.”
“Bearing in mind today’s audience, I did a bit of research and looked at the poverty premium at a constituency level for different MPs. It might surprise you to know that a typical parliamentary constituency loses £4.5 million a year in terms of the poverty premium. That is money that could be going into your constituents’ pockets. We have linked that to research that shows that the poorer you are, the more likely you are to spend that locally. The reason I am talking about this point right now, as well as it costing £2.8 billion across Great Britain, is that the poverty premium very much exists for people trying to access cash. If you lived in, let us say, the Conservative constituency of Vale of Clwyd, people are paying about £40,000 to access their own money.”
“Q To both our witnesses, do you agree that there is a societal duty for the Government to ensure that the most vulnerable people in our society have free access to cash? Natalie Ceeney: Yes, I do. The one thing I would say as you consider the drafting is that the Bill covers small businesses as well as consumers. Small businesses, typically, via their contracts, pay for their cash access. As you draft amendments, limiting that to retail consumers is going to be important. I do not think that there is any appetite for banks to want to charge for cash access, so I do not think that you would get any opposition to putting that in the legislation or empowering the FCA to take it through to regulation. Martin Coppack: There is absolutely a need for this.”
“Consumer duties are an example of where we have to work in collaboration with all relevant stakeholders and interested parties to make sure that the good consumer outcomes that credit unions provide can be evidenced, and that we can go on that journey. There are live examples of those on both sides of the regulatory environment taking steps to be innovative and to future-proof the business development that we expect to see through this legislative programme. That is to be welcomed, but we are on a journey, and we are not yet at the end.”
“It also allows us to take cognisance of the fact that there are many more larger, asset-based credit unions than there were five or 10 years ago—we have to factor in whether that comes through consolidation, or just through business growth—which is hugely beneficial for all parties. In terms of the FCA, obviously the credit union sector is dual-regulated. We have a relationship from the conduct side. It will be interesting to see how that approach develops. Again, I would echo Robin’s view: the FCA has such a broad remit, in terms of the firms that it looks after, and we are always championing the cause of proportionality.”
“As to how it best achieves that without adding ever more reports and burdens, that is in its annual reports, which are obviously open to examination and scrutiny. In the regulator’s annual reports, it should report back on that; that would be the most straightforward way to achieve that. Robert Kelly: Thank you again for the question. I echo Robin’s comments, but I will try not to duplicate them. Credit unions have an ongoing consultation with the PRA on future supervision and the regulatory environment. We have a long track record of working in tandem with the PRA, and there is a move towards making sure that the supervision model is in tandem with the legislative reform agenda, which seems eminently sensible.”
“We have seen a real change in the PRA’s approach to the financial mutuals since the financial crisis, and it has been largely positive. There is a very important question as far as the FCA is concerned. We saw it last year with the proposed demutualisation of LV. It was apparent that the FCA was entirely agnostic on the business model, in terms of their competition objective and the good competition that achieves better customer outcomes on the conduct side. There is certainly a case for the FCA to consider that far more closely. I am always very careful when we talk about conduct outcomes with the FCA because, as a consumer, you should not have a different outcome, but you might experience a different journey. There are some nuances in there.”
“Q Would both our witnesses support giving the FCA and the PRA an explicit remit to report on how they have considered specific business models—including credit unions, building societies and mutual and co-operative regional banks—to ensure that they are given parity of esteem with other providers? If so, how would that support your sector? Robin Fieth: That is a great question; thank you very much. We are already part of the way there with the PRA. It has had a secondary competition objective since the 2014 Act, and it was subsequently enhanced at the BSA’s behest. Every time it consults, it has an obligation and a requirement to determine whether there are specific aspects that disproportionately affect the mutual sector, and that has been welcome.”
“Even a screeching U-turn cannot repair the damage when we have already had the crash. When the Chancellor dismantled Trussonomics overnight, why on earth did he decide to carry on boosting bankers’ bonuses in the heart of a cost of living crisis?”
“Two days before the Budget, a young constituent of mine hoped to buy her home through shared ownership. She was offered a mortgage at 4.28% interest by the Halifax. A day after the statement, the offer was withdrawn and a two-year fixed-rate deal has rocketed to 6.9%—that is £150 a month more overnight because of the Government’s unfunded giveaways to people on over 150 grand a year. What is the Minister’s advice to my constituent? Should she take the deal, or does he agree with the panel of experts at the Treasury Committee this morning that she should not go near it, because house prices are about to plummet?”
“She was so proud of her country and her Commonwealth and we were so proud of her, so we say thank you for 70 years of service, stewardship and extraordinary stoicism. May she rest in peace.”
“I suspect that there must have been many times through seven decades of service when a stiff upper lip was required, but, even in the darkest hours, she steadfastly believed that you just had to keep going—a quality of true leadership. Her Majesty had an unrivalled ability to unite, even at times of deepest division. Perhaps that is why we trusted her. She was our great nation’s guide through good times and bad. As a country we looked to her for reassurance and, most recently, in the coronavirus lockdowns. When she said that we would meet again, we trusted the century of experience on which she was drawing. Her platinum jubilee showed the love that our country had for her and sparked the togetherness, community and patriotism that she consistently inspired.”
“She navigated a century of societal changes, from her coronation in post-war Britain to every move of her reign televised globally and across social media. It was this insight that best shared her wonderful sense of humour, with treasured memories of Olympic ceremony skydives, and, more recently, of afternoon tea and teacup drumming with Paddington Bear. She truly was a leader for all ages—respected and admired by young and old. Other Members have spoken at length of her dedication and duty. It was this work ethic that I admired the most, with her service continuing quite literally until the end, as she welcomed her 15th and final Prime Minister just days before her death. What a remarkable drive she had.”
“I am sorry, Mr Speaker, I never expected to be called so early; I was so enjoying everybody’s contributions. I rise to pay my respects on behalf of my constituents in Mitcham and Morden, who, like people in the rest of our country and Commonwealth, are united in mourning. So much has been said in this House and, indeed, from pubs to podiums around the world, and yet such is the magnitude of the moment that it still feels like there is so much left to say. Queen Elizabeth was the historic figurehead of modern times, a leader—a female leader, may I say—incomparably devoted to her service and her people. As the longest-reigning monarch, she has been ever present, a constant figure of reassurance throughout all our lives. Perhaps that is why the grief feels so personal for so many. Her Majesty’s leadership transcended generations.”
“Does my hon. Friend share my concern that although a great deal is offered by the hubs, they do not deliver? They certainly do not for those of us who live in cities, as people require the bank most days if they are dependent on cash, and they are just expected to get the bus.”
“Halifax Mitcham’s remaining open is not a silver bullet to solving the problems they face with the digital divide and access to cash, but if we are not careful, and everything from milk to money moves online, then they are at risk of simply being left behind.”
“The cost of living crisis has seen the return of money jars, with households separating their cash and counting out their pennies to ensure they can make ends meet. Of course I accept that we are in a changing society and reliance on cash has changed for many, but those on the wrong side of the digital divide are simply being cut off from society, made to feel not part of the same world that we inhabit. Take Mr Barley, chair of Mitcham’s British Legion branch. Throughout the lockdowns, he relied on his milkman for milk delivery and the rest, but, as hon. Members will have guessed, Milk & More is now going online too and such loyal, long-standing customers no longer get that service. I say to the Minister that the Mr Barleys of this world are treasured in our communities.”
“Its loss is the latest hammer blow to our high street. Does the Minister agree that Mitcham now makes a perfect location for a new shared banking hub? We are told that a community can demand access to free ATMs, but that is not the experience on the ground. People in Pollards Hill have tried for years to get a free ATM. Residents literally have to pay for access to their cash—small amounts of money that they get on a daily basis and for which they are charged. The nearest post office had one installed, but now even that has gone, and a ridiculous clause in the new Co-op’s lease prevents a free ATM from opening because there is a paid-for machine further down the terrace. How can that possibly make sense? I believe that the need for access to cash is growing.”
“Age UK highlights that one in five older people still rely on cash for everyday spending. But Barclays did not care. Despite having three years still to run on the lease, it closed the branch and swapped it for a bus—yes, really, a bus—that pulled up randomly outside the empty branch, on the off-chance that a customer was fortunate enough to be passing by and willing to queue in the rain. That sounds safe as houses. “Do not fear,” they said. “There are other branches just a bus ride—or two—away, or your constituents could just use the post office for their basic banking needs.” That is the same post office whose doorway was too small for my disabled constituent to access with her wheelchair, the same post office that no longer has a free cash machine outside. Fortunately, we still had Halifax—well, until now.”
“Their opposition is overwhelming; this latest bank closure is yet another nail in the coffin of access to free cash, and I have the evidence to prove it. When Barclays Mitcham closed last year, one of a staggering 650 Barclays branches to disappear since 2015, we surveyed more than 500 residents outside the bank. An extraordinary 50% did not use online banking and were reliant on that branch. Many did not have access to the internet. Some did not trust it. Others, particularly the elderly, only used cash. Then there were those who relied on the help and support of the staff, who they could trust with their money. I do not believe these views are unique to Mitcham. When high streets lose their banks, the digital divide prevents far too many people from turning online.”
“I am furious to report the imminent loss of yet another bank branch in Mitcham town centre. The year before last it was Nationwide, last year it was Barclays and this time it is Halifax—a bank that pretends to consult its long-standing and loyal customers about its branch closure, but then refuses to attend my public meeting to hear the concerns of those customers in person. Contrary to its slogan, “It’s a people thing”, it seems that Halifax does not care at all what people think, at least if they live in Mitcham and are elderly, disabled or rely on face-to-face banking services. Every day this week I have stood outside the branch, gathering customers’ views and listening to their concerns.”
“An International Monetary Fund bailout is essential, but does the Minister agree that any financial assistance must go hand in hand with democratic and human rights reforms, in particular for the Tamil community which continues to fight for truth, justice and accountability as a result of the human rights abuses perpetrated at the end of the civil war by the outgoing Rajapaksa regime?”
“The world turned away when the Rajapaksa Government cluster bombed their own people committing genocide, murdered their journalists and enriched a small group led by one family. Their malign, dynastic control has stripped the country bare, leaving behind a broken nation on the brink of economic collapse. Sri Lanka is unable to buy essential goods from abroad and for the first time in its history it failed to make a payment on its foreign debt, a consequence of swingeing populist tax cuts at a time of economic instability—Tory leadership candidates beware.”
“A state of emergency has been declared in Sri Lanka by Prime Minister Ranil Wickremesinghe after President Rajapaksa fled the country last night. That follows weeks of protests on the island, with inflation running at more than 50%, rocketing the price of everyday goods. The health system is on the verge of collapse due to a lack of medicine. There is no fuel for essential transport services and medical vehicles. There have been power cuts, school closures and we woke this morning to protestors overtaking the Prime Minister’s office, tear gas fired by police, a curfew imposed on the capital and the national TV broadcast suspended. This is a crisis in democracy decades in the making.”
“Further to my hon. Friend’s intervention, the other side of the coin for local authorities is finding temporary accommodation anywhere for families with children. I am sure that many families from London end up being placed in temporary accommodation in the right hon. Gentleman’s constituency. In my constituency, we are seeing more families farmed out to Kent or Essex, so staying on at a primary school is extraordinarily difficult, with over 124,000 children in temporary accommodation. Does he think that those issues should be taken in the round because of their impact on education?”
“I believe that we should be putting tech at the heart of learning, tailoring classrooms to the modern day by ensuring that every child has the kit and the connectivity to get online. We should be challenging the norm by considering qualifications in tech and coding, providing real-world work experience, and using our ability to connect and learn with and from others around the world. The 21st-century opportunities for children, for teachers and for education should be endless. If there were a competent and functioning Government to take on that challenge, we would be there; but we are not.”
“In contrast, Labour’s children’s recovery plan will provide breakfast clubs and new activities for every child, small-group tutoring for all who need it, quality mental health support in every school, continued development for teachers—that is essential, given that a staggering 40% of teachers leave the profession within five years—and an education recovery premium, targeting investment at children who risk falling behind. Those are not just warm words. Under the last Labour Government, our rhetoric matched the reality: 3,500 Sure Start centres were delivered on time, offering a place in every community for integrated care and services for children and their families. Now is the time to be ambitious about education in a post-covid modern society.”