Sir Christopher Chope
MP for Christchurch · Conservative · United Kingdom
“When was the last time that an allotted Opposition day was withdrawn in the way that the Leader of the House is withdrawing this one? I was looking at my calendar of business, otherwise known as the Order Paper, and it says that “The selection of the matters to be debated will be made by the Leader of the Opposition (Standing Order No.”
“The Climate Change Committee has condemned the Government for failing and falling short of adapting to climate change and accepting the reality as it is, which is that by the end of this century, global temperatures will have increased to between 3.5° and 4.5° above pre-industrial levels.”
“The Minister has referred to the grooming gangs inquiry carried out by our friend, the hon. Member for Great Yarmouth (Rupert Lowe), and early-day motion 380 makes a number of recommendations. Will the Minister engage with the hon.”
“The landmark 250th anniversary of the declaration of independence by the United States takes place in the week commencing 29 June. I have applied for an Adjournment debate, but will the Leader of the House enable more Members to be able to participate in marking that historic event?”
“That is exactly what I did on behalf of my constituent Paul Kenchington: I wrote to the Secretary of State about the specialist steel that he uses, and I have not had a reply.”
“Next week, can the Leader of the House produce a Government statement in response to the Hallett review on covid-19 vaccines? Lady Hallett recommended major reform of the vaccine damage payment scheme.”
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“In addition, under the scheme, which is being pioneered by a small number of imaginative local authorities, the tenants receive 10% of the property’s market value as a gifted deposit to add to their savings and reduce their mortgage costs at the point of purchase. On becoming 100% homeowners after five, 10, 15 or 20 years, tenants can access a wide range of mortgage products utilising the credit worthiness they will have developed during their time as tenants. The essential element of security of tenure also enables families to develop roots in their local community. The model to which I refer is wholly funded by institutional investors. Substantial funds have already been forthcoming, but a further £40 billion will be available under this system for new affordable homes, at no cost to the Exchequer.”
“For those not familiar with affordable rent to buy, this is how it works. It provides an accessible route to home ownership for those who cannot immediately afford a deposit. In that respect, it has an advantage over other low-cost home ownership schemes, which still require substantial up-front funding. Under affordable rent to buy, families take out a fixed five-year renewable assured shorthold tenancy and agree to pay an affordable rent—80% of the market rate, normally—for five, 10, 15 or 20 years. By paying an affordable rent, families are able to start saving towards a deposit.”
“To her credit, the Prime Minister clearly wishes to correct this public policy failure, which is having such an adverse impact on the next generation of aspiring homeowners. The proposals in the Affordable Home Ownership Bill should therefore be particularly appealing to the Government—not least because they do not add to the nation’s debt, but rely instead on ensuring that some of the land set aside under section 106 planning agreements for affordable housing is earmarked for homes built for affordable rent to buy. My Bill requires the Government to put beyond legal doubt that local authorities must treat affordable rent to buy on a par with affordable rent, and it requires local authorities to specifically include affordable rent to buy schemes in their development plans.”
“Home ownership facilitates flexibility in the size and location of accommodation, taking into account changes in a place of employment or additions to the family. Home ownership also encourages long-term financial independence from the state and, therefore, from taxpayer subsidies. With home ownership so popular and so manifestly in the public interest, one is bound to ask why it has been allowed to decline—it is now at a 30-year low of only 63%. The answer is lack of affordability. In most parts of the country, the price of houses has been increasing far faster than earnings. The greatest impact has been on younger buyers. In the 1980s, six out of 10 of those aged under 40 were homeowners; now, fewer than four out of 10 are.”
“I beg to move, That leave be given to bring in a Bill to make provision for affordable home ownership; to require the inclusion of rent to buy homes in the definition of affordable housing; to make provision for a minimum proportion of new affordable housing to be available on affordable rent to buy terms; to provide relief from stamp duty when an affordable rent to buy home is purchased; and for connected purposes. It is beyond dispute that home ownership is by far and away the most popular and desirable form of housing tenure. This is confirmed by the British social attitudes survey, which shows that 86% of people aspire to own a home. Home ownership lies at the heart of a true property-owning democracy, in which young and old alike are enabled to take responsibility for their own lives.”
“Apart from the safeguards set out in the memorandum and the undertakings, there is also the fact that the promoters will send those undertakings to the Ministry of Justice, so that the Minister may place the information in the Library of the House. I hope that my hon. Friend the Minister is able to confirm that that will happen, because it is important that when people look back at these proceedings years hence, they are easily able to access the documentation. I wish this Bill a safe passage.”
“You have also put it on record that this sometimes obscure private Bill procedure never suffers if we have proper scrutiny, whether it be in debates on the Floor of the Chamber or in Committee. This Bill now has the support of everybody, I think. We also have a written memorandum, to which my right hon. Friend did not refer in much detail. The one I have here is signed for and on behalf of New Southgate Cemetery and Crematorium Ltd and dated 5 September 2017, but another one in almost identical terms was issued in March this year. The memorandum sets out more detail and background on the way in which the cemetery will be maintained in future.”
“With private Bill procedure, one often thinks that if the business goes to an Unopposed Bill Committee there will not really be any effective scrutiny and it will go through on the nod. The record of the role that you played in the Unopposed Bill Committee shows that you were rigorous in exploring matters and putting questions to the promoters, some of which they answered more easily than others. As a result, they wrote to you on 2 February setting out the four undertakings, which I will not repeat because my right hon. Friend the Member for Chipping Barnet has already referred to them. In securing those undertakings through your expert cross-examination, you have done everybody a great service.”
“I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Chipping Barnet (Theresa Villiers) for her very full introduction to this Third Reading debate. I objected to the Third Reading going through on the nod because I thought it important that the undertakings given in Committee were recorded in this Chamber so that everybody could look back and see the nature of those undertakings. I echo my right hon. Friend’s tribute to our colleague who lost his seat at the general election. David Burrowes was an outstanding Member of Parliament. He was a really easy-going colleague and we had many a wry laugh not just about this Bill but lots of other things. He had a great twinkle in his eye, which I am sure he has not lost as a result of his electoral experience. I would also like to thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.”
“He took this cause very much to heart, and I thank him for the contribution that he made on behalf of his constituents and other Bargee Travellers. We owe it to him to be able to continue that campaign, and it is great that we have the hon. Member for Cambridge on our side as well.”
“Many of those powers, the House will find, are over the top and disproportionate, so I hope that in due course we can achieve a Bill that is much better than the current one. I had hoped that the Bill’s promoters would withdraw it and go back to square one, but they have not done so, which leaves us in the situation we are in. The agents acting for the promoters have been courteous and so on, but when they see what is going to happen next, I hope that their courtesy will be accompanied by a lot more substance, so that the serious concerns of Bargee Travellers can be met. The last time we debated this, we heard a contribution from our then hon. Friend the Member for Peterborough, Stewart Jackson.”
“The commissioners continue: “If the Commissioners could not do this, they would not be able to exercise the powers.” That is a circular argument, and it typifies the problem that will continue to exist if the Bill makes progress. The commissioners have not responded adequately to the concerns expressed by people who have exercised the right to live on the Middle Level waterways, as has been the case for centuries, and to exercise navigation rights without being subject to penal charges and undue regulation. As with many private Bills, as soon as such a measure is introduced all sorts of people come along and say, “Why don’t we regulate this? Why don’t we regulate that?” It is like a Christmas tree, with a whole lot more regulatory powers attached to it.”
“The legislation and enabled Byelaws could be used to evict boat dwellers, seize boats and carry out social clearance and discriminatory exclusion of boat dwellers from the Middle Level.” That is quite a serious charge, you will agree, Mr Deputy Speaker. The Commissioners responded: “Case law makes it clear, where the exercise of a power to remove vessels would interfere with the vessel owner’s Article 8 rights, it would be for the navigation authority to show that the interference is proportionate to their legitimate aims in seeking to enforce their powers.” In other words, they do not deny that they would or could interfere in the rights of boat dwellers to continue to reside on their boats in the Middle Level.”
“In the view of the association: “The Commissioners’ response contains weak assurances concerning our concerns. We have little confidence in these assurances although we accept the Commissioners may have made them in good faith. Accordingly, we have not withdrawn our petition.” The association encourages me and other parliamentary colleagues to continue “to support boat dwellers, and…indeed all inland waterway boaters, by…opposing…this Bill.” To take one example, paragraph 6 of the petition says: “The Bill contains no protection for the homes of people who live on boats and it fails to recognise that Articles 6 and 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights provide boat dwellers with protection for their homes.”
“It is great that, compared with when we first discussed the Bill, the hon. Member for Cambridge (Daniel Zeichner) has shown an interest in the subject, and I am glad that his constituents have taken the opportunity to brief him on some of their concerns. The issue before the House is obviously quite simple—whether the Bill should be revived. My view is very much that it should not be revived, but should go back to the drawing board, because there is a lot more work to be done by the promoters and the petitioners in discussing some of the nitty-gritty issues, some of which have been referred to in this short debate. I have been shown a copy of the commissioners’ response to the National Bargee Travellers Association’s comments in its petition.”
“Does my right hon. Friend believe that the EU genuinely wants a dynamic and creative future trade relationship with the UK in accordance with her vision? If so, where is the evidence for it?”
“The written statement says that there will be places, such as areas of outstanding natural beauty or green belt, where constraints mean that there is not enough space to meet local need. As the Opposition spokesman pointed out, my right hon. Friend omitted a reference to green belt in the written statement; was that a slip of the tongue or intentional? He instead inserted the phrase “national parks”. If it was a slip of the tongue, will he issue a ministerial correction?”
“Order. As we have got a minute and a half spare, we can go straight on to the next debate because the Minister is here. I now call the next speaker, Mr Linden.”
“I am going to call the Minister no later than 20 past five. I hope the two Opposition spokespeople will be able to share the time between now and then, should they so wish.”
“The financial burden of implementing UN resolution 2371 will largely fall on China. What proposals are there, from our friends elsewhere and from within our country, to help China to meet those costs? It is easy for us to say, “They won’t do it,” but surely we can do something to say, “If you take that step, we will do something to help you.””
“Growing public anger at the BBC is made worse by the fact that the public know that the BBC is funded by a highly regressive television tax. May we have an early debate not just on the accountability of the BBC but on its funding, with a view to getting rid of the television tax, which at the moment results in 10% of all cases in the magistrates courts and particularly impacts on women? Some 70% of the victims of that tax are women.”
“If the Government’s plan is to reduce the pressures on adult social care, will my hon. Friend explain why the Dorset clinical commissioning group is proposing to close down the St Leonard’s community hospital, which provides really good services at the moment and is approved of by the community?”
“May I say to my right hon. Friend that when the Labour Government closed down the Christchurch jobcentre the sky did not fall in. Would it not be sensible now, with fewer jobcentres, to ensure that they are open at weekends so that they are more accessible?”
“When will the Government introduce the £95,000 cap on exit payments for public sector workers? The legislation is on the statute book, but it has not been implemented. Will it be implemented soon so that we do not have any more payments such as the £390,000 paid earlier this year to the chief executive of Bournemouth Borough Council to leave?”
“Has my right hon. Friend received a report on the Scottish Affairs Committee’s visit to Brussels on Monday and Tuesday this week? If so, does he share my delight that it was made absolutely clear throughout those discussions that the European Union is interested only in negotiating with the United Kingdom Government and not with the Scottish Government?”
“May I thank my right hon. Friend for making it clear that two years from today our sovereign Parliament will indeed have the power to amend, repeal or improve all this ghastly EU legislation?”
“Now that my hon. Friend is taking interventions, may I ask him what his status is? He is telling us about the Bill and the location with which it deals, but his constituency is nowhere near the affected area. Why has it not been possible for the promoters of the Bill to find a local MP who is sympathetic to it?”
“Is it right to say that the consultation took place at the same time as the EU referendum, the outcome of which we are celebrating today? Is it also right to say that, for example, the March cruising club, whose headquarters is almost opposite the commissioners’ offices, was not consulted, and that other petitioners were not consulted either?”
“I have no objection to the Bill having a Second Reading, but it is important that it goes to an Opposed Private Bill Committee after there has been an exhaustive discussion between the petitioners and the promoters, rather than the Committee being used as the forum for that discussion, because the private Bill procedure in Committee is expensive and potentially adversarial. I wish that there had been more discussion between the promotors and the objectors.”
“This debate would not be taking place if I had not blocked the Bill from going through on the nod on Second Reading. We have already heard about the benefits of having a proper Second Reading debate on a private Bill. Having spoken to some of the petitioners on the telephone, I point out that the Bill’s promoters have a serious responsibility to engage with those who take a different view or have concerns about its contents. One petitioner told me there has been no contact whatever from the authorities. It is easy to talk about the Bill going to an Opposed Private Bill Committee.”
“The Bill will also extend the commissioners’ powers to adjacent waters, including private waters that are not currently within their jurisdiction. Apparently that, so Mr Moore says, has been “a contentious point in related litigation.””
“One of the petitions is from Nigel Moore, who says that he is “a boat owner and manager of other people’s boats on various navigations, is an adviser on nationwide legal issues relating to boating, and is currently an approved lay advocate for a boater in a High Court action wherein issues arise over the interpretation of similar clauses to that proposed in this Bill.” He objects to the Bill because it “entails clear abolition of private and public rights to no justifiable purpose, and will lead to unnecessary future litigation over ambiguities.” Like other petitioners, he refers to the Bill’s wide interpretation of the term “waterways”. Schedule 1 will extend the term to a lot of areas that are not even navigable.”
“I notice that there are 33 independent internal drainage districts within the Middle Level, each of which is responsible for the local drainage of its area. When we talk about giving more powers to the Middle Level Commissioners, we need to be circumspect about the checks and balances on the exercise of those powers, which I hope the Committee will be able to investigate when it meets to consider the proposals and the petitions against them.”
“I am glad that my hon. Friend agrees with the need for informal engagement before the Bill goes to an Opposed Private Bill Committee, because apart from anything else, some of the petitioners are not well funded. If the Committee is prolonged and the petitioners have to be represented by counsel, the costs will be disproportionately high. The National Audit Office published an illuminating report on internal drainage boards on 21 March—basically we are talking about a collection of drains, not canals. The report expresses concern about conflicts of interest and the need for proper oversight and assurance that the internal drainage boards will not engage where there are conflicts of interest.”
“As a result of the Bill, owners of private waters that are not subject to the Middle Level Commissioners’ control will find themselves incorporated within the responsibilities of the commissioners, who will be able to use their regulatory powers in relation to what are currently private waters. That is an extension well beyond what one might have thought of as being the scope of the Bill. As my hon. Friend knows, being an experienced Member of this House, as soon as people get the opportunity to start legislating they always want to take more powers than they strictly need, which is one of the petitioners’ concerns.”
“Following on from the history that has been outlined by a number of the participants in this debate, he says: “Pleasure boats have had free navigational access to the Old River Nene, which forms a large navigational section of the Middle Level, from before 1215 protected by Magna Carta and many subsequent statutes and Royal Commissions. There are even Roman transcripts describing navigation along the Old River Nene as early as the 4th Century during the Roman occupation. The Old River Nene is a natural river and a Public Right of Navigation has existed since Time Immemorial and was first codified in the Magna Carta of 1215.””
“This was the burden of Environment Agency submissions in a recent case on the Thames, which was, in my submission, correct”. So he thinks that as worded, clause 8(3) would not only be against the expressed policy of the Environment Agency, but “would be unenforceable and ineffectual in law, contrary to the expectation of the Commissioners, and prejudicial to the rights of boaters.” I hope that even if nothing else is sorted out in Committee, those issues raised by Mr Moore will be. As we have heard, a petition has also come from the March cruising club, which has been submitted by Mr Harwood, the club harbourmaster. Apart from complaining about the inadequate consultation, he raises a number of issues.”
“Again, that is a good point, and it has been raised in several of the petitions. Mr Moore expresses another concern, in stating that he “objects to Clause 8(3) because the wording follows that of the contentious British Waterways Act of 1983, section (8), which has led to years of litigation as to its effect, whereas the wording of the similar clause in the Environment Agency (Inland Waterways) Order 2012 section (16) is far superior, and allows for no such ambiguity and potential attempted and unwarranted extension of powers. The wording ‘without lawful authority’ is also wholly inapplicable to refer to boats on public navigable waters, when the right to be on the waterways derives from the public right, and the proposed provisions for registration of boats does not change that.”
“I hope that detailed discussion, consideration and scrutiny in Committee will have that consequence and that we will be able to look back and say, “This has been a worthwhile exercise, because a not very good Bill has been much improved as a result of proper scrutiny.” I am not going to speak at length on this occasion, but I and my hon. Friend the Member for Peterborough are concerned that the rights of the petitioners should be heard in this great home of democracy.”
“All I can say is that if my constituents were faced with some of the regulations and powers to invade their privacy that are proposed in relation to the Middle Level of the fens, they would be outraged indeed. We have a large number of boats moored on the River Stour in Christchurch, and they do not all have names on them. People certainly do not have to give their name and address to some passing enforcement officer. It seems to me that a lot of the Bill should be removed before it comes back for further consideration on Report.”
“The association says that many bargee travellers use the Middle Levels as a transit route between the East Anglian waterways, such as the River Cam, the Great Ouse, or the Wissey, and the rest of the inland waterways. There is no other inland waterway route, and there would be no choice for them but to be bound by the proposed terms and conditions and to pay the proposed charges. I am not very familiar with this part of the fens, and, apart from having visited other people who have a narrow boat, I am not familiar with this type of recreational boating. However, I am familiar with the sort of recreational boating that happens in my own constituency of Christchurch.”
“Friend the Member for Peterborough has already referred to the petition from his constituent, Christopher Taylor, so I will not refer to it again. I have referred briefly to what Pamela Smith has said on behalf of the National Bargee Travellers Association. That organisation has put in a major objection to much of the Bill. It has more than 700 members and four local groups and represents the interests of an estimated 15,000 to 30,000 bargee travellers in the United Kingdom. A significant number of members of the association either live permanently on the Middle Levels or use the waterways regularly. It is therefore a matter of great regret that there has been no proper discussion with the bargee travellers on the very important issues in the Bill, and I hope that that will remedied sooner rather than later.”
“Requiring boaters to surrender their right to privacy as a condition of being granted a licence to navigate is unreasonable and intrusive. There are quite significant attempts in the Bill to impose on the rights of individuals. I noticed that when the Minister gave her certification in relation to the Bill’s compliance with the European convention on human rights, all she said was that she had no reason to suppose that the assertions made by the promoters were incorrect. I am not sure whether we can be satisfied that the Government have yet explored the issues relating to human rights for their own purposes so that they can assure us that, in their own view—not just the view of the promoters—the Bill is fully compliant with the law on human rights. My hon.”
“She estimated that between 10,000 and 25,000 people—not just in the area of the Middle Level, but throughout the United Kingdom—live on boats but not at a fixed mooring. They are a different sort of itinerant community, and she feels that they will be very much discriminated against by many of the proposals in the Bill. Those concerns are echoed by other petitioners. Clause 9 proposes giving the commissioners more powers to make byelaws, but those commissioners already have adequate byelaw-making powers under the Middle Level Act 1874. Under the clause, the commissioners are seeking the authority to examine people’s homes, which, in most cases, amounts to an unwarranted, unnecessary invasion of personal space. There are statutory bodies, including the police, with the authority to enter people’s homes under appropriate circumstances.”
“This was the only available and affordable option after losing his home of eight years when his father died.” His submission alleges that “the proposals contained in the Bill will directly and specially affect his rights and interests, including allowing the commissioners new powers to seize his home and sell it on for less than its value, effectively making him homeless, destitute and an additional cost to the state.” Mr Paice’s submission goes on to say that the Bill “contains no protection for the homes of people who, like him, live on their boats.” Indeed, that theme was picked up by Pamela Smith from the National Bargee Travellers Association, who said that people who have lived and worked on boats for many years but who do not have moorings feel threatened by the proposals.”
“There is also a petition against the Bill from somebody called Derek Paice, whose submission describes him as living “on a narrowboat (which, since it is not a ‘commercial boat’, most fits the description of ‘pleasure boat’ in the Nene Navigation Act 1684) on the Middle Level and this has been his home since 2011.”
“Unless the issues I have described are resolved amicably between the petitioners and the promoters, the Bill will have a pretty slow passage through the House, because I am sure Members will not wish to impinge on the rights that individuals have enjoyed for many years unless there is strong justification. Another petition comes from Mr John Hodges, who describes himself as a “member of the public” and a “homeowner with mooring on the banks of the Middle Level”. He says that the proposals will “directly and specially affect” his rights. That is an indication of another category of objector.”
“It objects because “the Bill contains no obligations under which the Commissioners would be duty bound to provide an adequate depth of water for navigation; dredging; maintenance or any facilities to boaters. Essentially, boaters would notice nothing positive, but would be subject to legislation that would: force them to pay a fee to register; pay annual licence fees; be a criminal offence to use the navigation without a licence; be forced to display a registration number; restrict access during certain times of the year; have the risk of being refused a licence and appealing the decision in a Magistrates Court. There are no advantages for boaters in return. This will destroy the Middle Level navigation and the boating community.” There are several other detailed points in the submission, but I shall not cite them all.”
“If there is a shortfall of £178,000 of unfunded expenditure, as has been alleged, there is nothing to prevent the commissioners from charging vessels that are not pleasure boats, or indeed charging for other activities. That would be consistent with the historical rights of pleasure boat owners to use the navigation without charge. The club goes on to say that the Middle Level is basically a “network of navigable drains”, so it is in a completely different category from some of the comparators that have been cited in support of the Bill by its promoters. The club makes several other points in its submission, one of which was echoed by my hon. Friend the Member for Peterborough (Mr Jackson).”
“I do not quite know what point my hon. Friend is making, because he is referring to a preamble to a piece of legislation—of course that is not an Act of Parliament. I am not sure that what he says undermines anything I have been saying in citing the submission of the March cruising club. I am sure that when the promoters engage properly with that club, they will be able to explore that issue further. One other point made by the cruising club, which contradicts a number of assertions made in this debate, is that the commissioners already have the power to charge boats for the use of their waterways, but what they do not have is the power to charge pleasure boats.”