Caroline Nokes
MP for Romsey and Southampton North · Conservative · United Kingdom
“I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his point of order. He will be conscious that there are in the region of 15 more Members wishing to speak in this debate, and we have not yet heard from the Minister, so I am not minded to accept a closure motion at this point.”
“(3) For paragraph (3A) substitute— “(3A) The returning officer shall also provide each polling station with such equipment as is necessary to ensure that relevant persons are able to vote independently and in secret, including— (a) tactile equipment that enables the voter to navigate the ballot paper and accurately mark their chosen candi…”
“(2) During the period commencing 30 minutes before the time appointed for the taking of a poll at an election, and ending 30 minutes after the close of the said poll, a person shall not, in or in the curtilage of a polling station or in any place within 50 metres of such station, for the purpose of promoting the interest of a political pa…”
“New clause 97— Power of Electoral Commission to require disclosure from financial institutions — “In Schedule 19B of the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000 (investigatory powers of Commission), after paragraph 1 insert— “Power to require disclosure from financial institutions 1A(1) The Commission may give a disclosure n…”
“() In paragraph 6 of schedule 6 (Donations from impermissible donors), after “section 54(1)(a)” insert— “or section 55B.” (8) In Schedule 20, in Table after Section 56(3) or (4) (failure to return donations) On summary conviction: statutory maximum or 6 months On indictment: fine or 1 year” Insert— Section 55A(8) (cap on donations) On sum…”
“(2) The specified elections for the purposes of subsection (1) are— (a) UK parliamentary elections, and (b) local government elections in England and Wales.”
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“I have attended many events relating to violence against women and girls where she too has proved herself to be a real champion in sticking up for the 51% of the population who are affected by these matters. Another is Caroline Henry, whom I met the day before yesterday to talk about the issues affecting women and girls. Let me give a specific example to show why I think the Bill is so important. I have heard successive Ministers say that such legislation is not necessary, because there is existing legislation to protect women and girls from sexual harassment. I am going to recount the story of a constituent who spoke to me about it, and my subsequent conversation with the then Minister about what had happened to that constituent.”
“I was not particularly happy about that, but I was prepared to wear it on the grounds that we would see public sexual harassment made a crime. It was a shame that there was not enough time for the Government to do that, but I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend for bringing the issue as far as this point. I want to pay tribute to some of the brilliant women out there in the community who are working both for and alongside the police, whom I consider to be real champions in this regard. The Minister mentioned Maggie Blyth, the deputy chief constable of Hampshire constabulary—my home force—who is also the national police lead for violence against women and girls. I also pay tribute to our police and crime commissioner in Hampshire, Donna Jones.”
“Friend the Member for Mid Sussex (Mims Davies), who was in the Chamber earlier: she too has played a role in keeping this issue on the priority list. There is also, of course, my right hon. Friend the Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May), not to mention the former Members of Parliament Amber Rudd and Sarah Newton, both of whom also held this brief at various points. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Tunbridge Wells said, back in December last year we saw the Law Commission’s review, which clearly stated that the Government should consider making public sexual harassment a specific crime, although, interestingly, at that time the commission rejected the idea of adding misogyny to the list of hate crimes.”
“However, there is a long history of other committed female Ministers, many of whom, over the past few years, have sidled up to me and said, “Keep going: keep pushing at that door.” Let me give some indication of the scale of support there has been. I remember my hon. Friend the Member for Louth and Horncastle (Victoria Atkins), on many occasions in Westminster Hall, begging me to keep going—to keep on asking difficult questions, and to keep on ensuring that this issue remained uppermost in people’s minds—but, of course, she is not the only one. My right hon. Friend the Member for Staffordshire Moorlands (Karen Bradley) has held this brief, as have my hon. Friend the Member for Redditch (Rachel Maclean) and my hon.”
“I am going to list them all, because I argue that, once we have on our side Our Streets Now, Plan International, the Girl Guides, the Soroptimists and the Women’s Institute, we have brought together a very impressive coalition of women of all ages and backgrounds who are prepared to speak up and determined to do so. When we read the statistics, they are absolutely terrifying. They show the sheer scale of the problem. When an issue dominates the Girlguiding girls’ attitude survey and dominates the experiences of young women at school, college and university, we have to reflect that it is well past time that we did something about it. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Minister, who will have the pleasure—I suggest—of responding to my right hon. Friend’s Bill, of taking it forward, and of seeing it eventually go on to the statute book.”
“The reality is that public sexual harassment is never funny: it is always scary and it dominates the lives of too many women. There has been some focus this morning on the lives of young women, but the stark reality is that there is probably not a woman in this place who has not experienced public sexual harassment at some point. It can happen at any age to any person, and it does happen to men as well, particularly young gay men. They need our support every bit as much as women do. I certainly remember why I first started talking about this issue: it was largely because of a coalition of really impressive women and women’s organisations—people who had come to see me and raised the issue with me.”
“I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend the Member for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark), who has done such an incredible job to get the Bill to this point. I appreciate that it has a long way to go yet, but I welcome the cross-party support for it and the comments made by my hon. Friend the Minister. I do not recall the first time that I spoke in this Chamber about public sexual harassment, but I vividly recall doing an interview with “Woman’s Hour” in 2019, when I was ridiculed for saying that public sexual harassment should be a specific crime. I remember the commentary on the website afterwards saying I did not know what I was talking about, and I remember the Daily Mail calling me mirthless because I did not think it was funny.”
“My hon. Friend is making the important and powerful point that we must never ever forget that there is, uncomfortable though we may find it, a pyramid of offending. Although not every flasher becomes a rapist, every rapist has started somewhere, and public sexual harassment can be the somewhere. Does she agree that that is one of the many reasons why we have to make sure that it is stamped out at source?”
“Will my right hon. Friend find time in this place for a debate on the consumer protections to householders when builders either go bust or simply disappear midway through a building project? I have a constituent who I would like to say has been left high and dry, but unfortunately he has been left low and cold and wet because a builder has simply not completed the work and has disappeared into thin air. A county court judgment cost him £2,200 to get but at no point was there any health warning that he may never see the money, so he feels he has paid into the court system as well as paying well over £20,000 to a builder, and he does not feel there is any consumer protection for him whatsoever.”
“Jake did not experience pain in the normal way, which would have triggered the alarm sooner. That meant that when he arrived at hospital he collapsed and deteriorated quickly. His mum, Sharon Aldcroft, has been clear that she was never warned about the dangers of valproate when she took it while pregnant with Jake, who was diagnosed with FVSD as a baby.”
“I start by expressing my thanks to Mr Speaker for granting this Adjournment debate. It is not the first time we have debated the issue of foetal valproate spectrum disorder in this House or in Westminster Hall, but this time we have added fatalities to the title of the debate. It is stark, and deliberately so, because this year for the first time a coroner has listed it as a contributing factor to a death. Jake Aldcroft was just 21 when he died in April this year after an infection triggered by problems with his kidneys. The coroner listed foetal valproate syndrome as a contributing factor to his death because of the physical damage done to Jake as an exposed baby, which meant that his bowel and bladder did not work properly and he relied on urostomy and colostomy bags. He had also suffered brain swelling that needed a drain.”
“Of course, the hon. Gentleman is right. One of the serious issues to do with sodium valproate has been the lack of warning and information provided to women of child-bearing age. I have highlighted Jake’s case, with the permission of his mum, because it gives a stark description of some of the very severe problems FVSD can cause for affected babies, and because, as far as I know, it is the first time that it has been listed as a contributory factor to a death. But the horror for many families is that they have to do everything they can to avoid infection and to manage really complex and difficult conditions because they know that, like Jake, their children are vulnerable and could, ultimately, also lose their lives to this totally avoidable syndrome.”
“As the Minister will know, foetal anti-convulsant syndrome is a serious condition in which a baby suffers physical and/or developmental disability from his or her mother taking sodium valproate. Those disabilities can vary and will include minor and major malformations ranging from deformities just of fingers and toes to major physical disabilities such as spina bifida, malformed limbs, skull and facial malformations and malformations of the internal organs.”
“I thank the hon. Member for that intervention. I remember being in this Chamber when a predecessor of my hon. Friend the Minister made a full apology in line with the recommendations of the Cumberlege report. Unfortunately, not all of that report’s recommendations have been implemented for some issues, which I will move on to shortly. I know that I do not have to rehearse this with the Minister because she has been there—and indeed in Westminster Hall—when we have debated this issue before. There have been many debates, statements and urgent questions on this issue and on the related matters of vaginal mesh and hormone pregnancy testing, but this is the first time the syndrome has been found by a coroner to have contributed to a young person’s death—a child’s death.”
“As the noble Baroness pointed out, many thousands of women of child-bearing age who suffer from epilepsy are still being prescribed sodium valproate. Since 2018, when the pregnancy prevention programme was introduced, only 7,900 women are believed to have switched from valproate, which means that today approximately 20,000 women taking valproate are at risk of becoming pregnant. Information from the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency indicates that of those 20,000 women, roughly one in three will have a pregnancy. That means that about 400 pregnant women a year have been exposed to valproate and that, of those 400 pregnancies, about one in two will have a child affected to some extent by foetal valproate syndrome.”
“The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. The illness can continue down the generations, and that is not yet well understood but it is causing real fear for the families who have been affected so far. Additionally, problems can include learning disabilities, autism spectrum disorder, delayed walking and talking, speech and language difficulties, and memory problems. It is a long list, and it has now been listed as directly attributing to the death of a young person. Way back in 2018, the Government commissioned the independent medicines and medical devices review, chaired by the noble Baroness Cumberlege, and its “First Do No Harm” report was published in 2020. That excellent piece of work had nine significant recommendations, some of which have been implemented, some of which have not—or not effectively.”
“These children were, in the words of the “First Do No Harm” report, “avoidably harmed”. It is no sort of redress to suggest that those struggling families resort to the courts. My suggestion to the Minister, who I believe is dedicated to her job, works extremely hard and can be very persuasive, is the following.”
“What additional controls does she think should be put in place in the light of the knowledge that valproate has caused a young man to lose his life? Secondly, the pregnancy prevention programme needs to be more effective. Some 200 babies are at risk every year. Is the Minister satisfied that the programme is adequately effective and that the information is properly communicated to women of child-bearing age? If not, what more is she planning to do? Finally, we need redress. Back in 2019, the disability equality charity Scope reported that a family with disabled children faces average extra costs of £581 a month. That was three years ago. Fuel inflation and food price inflation have increased since then, and the stark reality is that families with disabled children are struggling.”
“Specifically, recommendation 4 states: “Separate schemes should be set up for each intervention—HPTs, valproate and pelvic mesh—to meet the cost of providing additional care and support to those who have experienced avoidable harm and are eligible to claim.” To my mind, the specific relevance here is around the additional care needed, which we all acknowledge, and the bare fact of avoidable harm. I have three asks of the Minister, and I look forward to her response. The first is for an acknowledgement that sodium valproate has contributed to a death. A young person has died avoidably, and we need the Government to reflect on the very serious conditions that too many babies were exposed to the risk of.”
“We also know, unequivocally, that the dangers of valproate were known the best part of 50 years ago, so it is especially tough and insensitive to suggest to those same families that redress should be via a courts system that is itself under immense strain and subject to delays. The noble Baroness recommended in her review not only that an independent redress agency be set up, but that there be separate schemes for the three medicines or devices covered.”
“I know that successive Ministers have decided that redress should come via the courts and medical negligence claims, but I would like us all to reflect a little on that and the added strain it puts on families already caring for a disabled child or, in some cases, children—children who we now know can have their death caused by foetal valproate syndrome. We know that the costs of caring for a disabled child are high. We know that in this cost of living crisis the energy costs for any family living with a disabled child will be higher. We know that in terms of physical effort and mental anxiety it is simply harder to look after a disabled child.”
“At this point, I pay tribute to Emma Murphy and Janet Williams of the INFACT campaign group, who are the women who have kept up the pressure on Government. They are the ones who have kept digging for information on what was known by the authorities and how long ago. They are the ones who persuaded my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, when he was Chair of the Health and Social Care Committee, to launch an inquiry into the use of sodium valproate, which The Sunday Times has described as a scandal bigger than thalidomide. Why is it a scandal bigger than thalidomide? Because it is still happening. Those babies are still being born to parents who have simply not had the level of warning and practical prevention measures that they need. That brings me to redress and recommendation 4 of “First Do No Harm”.”
“There are drugs for other conditions where I have seen far more radical and determined pregnancy prevention programmes. I have previously identified Roaccutane, where women prescribed it have to have long-acting contraception and produce a negative pregnancy test before they can collect a monthly prescription, not to mention sit with a consultant and go through a very detailed explanation of foetal abnormalities and be given a form to sign stating they will have a termination if they get pregnant. That might sound draconian in the case of valproate, but it would at least mean that every woman prescribed the drug would have had the risks spelled out very clearly. For thousands of families, the damage has been done.”
“We have to do better with the pregnancy prevention programme, and we have to do better at providing the necessary information to women of child-bearing age. The pregnancy prevention programme is just not working adequately. Information to women is not getting through. Drugs are still being dispensed in plain packaging, without the required warning notices. Many women are still highlighting through the media, through campaign groups and to their Members of Parliament that they were not warned, that they have become pregnant and then, only at that point, have they been told of the possible danger to their baby and advised to have an abortion. First-time mums excited at finding they are pregnant are advised to have an abortion. I know that the Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Lewes (Maria Caulfield), will find that abhorrent.”
“Member for Bury South (Christian Wakeford) indicated, new information suggests that valproate will affect their children too. Those mothers who already feel a sense of guilt that their medication has harmed their children now live in fear that it will impact their grandchildren too. Put simply, it is a health disaster that is not going to go away. Alongside other Members, I recognise the importance of sodium valproate as a drug to control epilepsy. It is crucial for some patients where other drugs have proven ineffective. At no point have I, or the APPG that I co-chair with the hon. Member for Lancaster and Fleetwood (Cat Smith), or INFACT called for it to be withdrawn, but the controls have to be more effective.”
“I will go on to say how important valproate is and how it is imperative that women keep taking the medication, but they need to do so in collaboration with their GP and in discussion with consultants —they need to do so being aware of the risks. According to the MHRA’s chief safety officer, around three babies are being born every month having been exposed to valproate in pregnancy, although The Sunday Times has estimated the numbers to be double that, at six per month. I pay particular tribute to The Sunday Times , which has worked alongside families and campaigners, such as the Independent Fetal Anti-Convulsant Trust, or INFACT, to make sure that this scandal does not get brushed to one side and forgotten about. As the hon.”
“He is now in a position where he could put in place the finances to allow a redress scheme to be set up. I urge her to persuade him to do just that.”
“The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, but I am absolutely confident that the Minister will be very pleased to meet both Janet and Emma. I look forward to her agreeing to do so from the Dispatch Box. My final point to the Minister is this: the Chancellor of the Exchequer, when he was Chair of the Health and Social Care Committee, was incredibly active on this issue. He launched the inquiry when he was still the Chair. His successor, my hon. Friend the Member for Winchester (Steve Brine), is equally committed and is continuing with the inquiry, and both Janet Williams and Emma Murphy will give evidence to the Committee next week. I would like the Minister to use her powers of persuasion and ability to convince the Chancellor of the Exchequer that he needs to keep going on this issue.”
“Member for Bristol South (Karin Smyth) for referring to her city again—because it did not support a young woman who spoke to me yesterday on this subject. When she went to the police, she was told that she had to think of the mental health of the student she was accusing of sexually harassing her. That, to my mind, is absolutely unthinkable. How are we going to empower and encourage young women to have the courage to come forward, speak of their experiences and press charges when they are being told to consider the impact on the individuals they are accusing? We know that 97% of the accusations made are truthful. I want to pay tribute briefly, in 50 seconds or less, to—”
“Friend the Member for Thurrock for the great work she did on that before she left the Committee—or in the music industry, where black women are overly sexualised. We know from the case of Child Q that black children are—I am not sure if this is even a word—adultified and treated as adults when they are still children. That still happens way too often. We heard of the horrors of being a young black woman in the music industry—they were truly horrific in the same way as the sexism in football that we heard about. Similarly, we hear time and again about how women at university are treated appallingly and how, in too many cases, the institution does not stand up for them. I will highlight Bristol University—apologies to the hon.”
“Carole and Julie have set up a new organisation, Killed Women, specifically to make sure that we listen to the victims and consider the aftereffects for those families who have lost a loved one in horrific circumstances. We all need to listen to those stories and understand the very profound impact that ongoing violence against women is having in this country. I will speak very briefly of the work that the Women and Equalities Committee is doing on this subject. I pay tribute to you, Ms Elliott, for having been a guest in a recent session. We are looking at sexual harassment, misogyny, violence against women, and sexism in all its forms across a variety of areas in this country, whether in schools, colleges and universities—I pay tribute to my hon.”
“I pay full credit to police forces such as Nottinghamshire police for collecting statistics on misogyny as a hate crime, but we need that to be rolled out to more police forces across the country. In this place, we have done some great work and every year the hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley (Jess Phillips) stands up in the Chamber on International Women’s Day and reads that great long list—which is not getting shorter—of those women who have been murdered over the previous year. At her behest, a couple of weeks ago I met, virtually, Carole Gould and Julie Devey, the mothers of Ellie Gould and Poppy Devey Waterhouse—young women murdered by their partners.”
“When women such as Raneem Oudeh and her mother are murdered while the police are ignoring their calls for help, we must wonder what cultural element came into that. It is important that we stand up in this House and are prepared to use our pointy-elbowed, middle-class privilege to highlight that, in this country, on International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women, we need to get our own house in order. We need to be prepared to legislate for things such as public sexual harassment. Let us face it: countries such as Morocco have managed to legislate for that, but we still have not. I have high hopes for my right hon. Friend the Member for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark) and his private Member’s Bill.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Elliott. I will start where my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock (Jackie Doyle-Price) finished: by talking about the pointy-elbowed, middle-class privilege that allows me to stand here and say that still, in 2022, we cherry-pick which victims we think are innocent and which we do not. That is why there is massive media coverage of some cases and not of others. We like our victims to be young, blonde and white, do we not? When police community support officers of my age are killed, it makes barely a headline, as in the case of Julia James. The murders of young women such as Bibaa Henry and Nicole Smallman, whose photographs were taken by police officers, do not gain the same number of column inches as the murder of Sarah Everard.”
“That will not give me an extra minute. I pay tribute to former Ministers who have worked so hard on this issue, some of whom are sitting in this room today, including Ministers from across the Home Office who worked so hard on the tackling violence against women and girls strategy and on finally getting the Domestic Abuse Act 2021 on the statute book. My message to all of us is that there is more that we can and must do. We have to keep pressing forward. If we do not do that, we will not be able to look around the globe and wring our hands in horror at the actions that we see elsewhere, when our own house needs to be in much better order.”
“I join the Minister in his comments about my right hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Vicky Ford), but I will not let him gloss over what she said about women’s right to reproductive health, which is a crucial part of preventing violence against women and girls. Will he join me in reaffirming the Government’s position on women’s right to access abortion, and in regretting the fact that, in some countries, abortion is still not available when it should be?”
“I assure the Minister that the people of Nether Wallop, Over Wallop and Barton Stacey do not feel that Project Gigabit is delivering for them. They have seen changed criteria; an inability to split postcodes, which is difficult when they are on a county boundary; delays in the processing of their applications; and then being told that they will not be able to reapply until 2023, because the project will still not be procured for those areas. They want answers and delivery, not the news that the project is delivering in Cumbria.”
“My constituent Lizzie has a minor blood clotting disorder that means she needs a referral to a consultant before she can be prescribed hormone replacement therapy for menopausal symptoms. That appointment has come back for June 2024. We will all recognise in this House that menopausal symptoms can be transitory and it may well be that she is through the menopause before the appointment comes, but please can my right hon. Friend find time in this House for a debate as to how the women’s health strategy is working, or in some cases not working, for women going through the menopause and what more we can do to make sure that the Department of Health and Social Care is taking these issues seriously?”
“The hon. Gentleman makes such an important point. Does he agree that we cannot shy away from talking about sexual and reproductive health in the developing world, because that is the single most effective way to ensure that girls stay in school, stay not pregnant and stay free from diseases that will affect them in future? It is crucial that in our role as providers of international aid we do not step back from programmes that talk about contraception.”
“When I do anything that involves running, there is definitely a slowdown, usually due to exhaustion, as I approach the finish line, but we cannot afford a slowdown here. We must accelerate to the finish. We can now see a UK without HIV. He made important points about the developing world and the efforts that still need to be made there, but the end is in sight, and it is absolutely crucial that we reach it and see a world that is free of HIV.”
“That is a huge step forward, and we have done brilliantly on vertical transmission, but it is crucial that we never let up on that, and that we get the message out that effective drugs taken during pregnancy can prevent HIV transmission to a baby. The mother has to be mindful of risks to do with the method of birth, be that natural delivery or via caesarean, and there is a risk factor involved in breastfeeding. All those pieces of information can effectively and easily be communicated to expectant mothers, and they absolutely should and must be. I am conscious that my knowledge is not as great as that of other Members in the Chamber, so I have deliberately kept my comments relatively brief. We need to keep up the pressure. The hon. Member for Brighton, Kemptown referred to approaching the finish line.”
“Often when I talk about health, I find myself complaining and browbeating others about the lack of data that is relevant exclusively to women, the lack of women coming forward in drug trials, and the lack of research done on women. Those things are true when it comes to HIV. I turn to what we have been good at. The action plan for HIV talks about the successes on vertical transmission; a tiny number of children are now born with HIV in this country. A big part of that is down to opt-out testing of pregnant women; the take-up has been absolutely enormous. The figures show the result: of the 60 people diagnosed in 2019 who acquired HIV through vertical transmission, only five were born in the UK.”
“It was crucial that a great deal of the research on HIV and AIDS be done on those who were most likely to be affected by them, so of course, a massive wealth of research has been done on men. I absolutely acknowledge that that was right, but there are knowledge gaps when it comes to women with HIV and which drugs might be most effective for them. There is certainly still a barrier to women accessing PrEP; that is borne out by the numbers. They are simply not using it. We have to understand why that is, and how effective that drug and indeed other HIV drugs may be on women. We have to make sure that the DHSC and NHS England not only have sufficient data, but disaggregate it, so that it can be broken down by gender and ethnicity.”
“It is no good broadcasting our public health messages exclusively on the BBC; we have to find different channels in order to communicate with the audiences who are most at risk, where the prevalence is highest, and where people might not be engaging with the traditional forms of media that you and I, Madam Deputy Speaker, might use. That is a really important message that I would like to give to NHS England and the Department of Health and Social Care. We must keep up the pressure, and talk to communities in which there is high prevalence and where there might be barriers, cultural or otherwise, to getting a test. I have an important wider point on research.”
“However, another part of it was to do with the fact that we need these testing programmes to be effective, we need people to be confident enough to use them, and we need them to be available in all sorts of locations. That brings me to my next point. We need people to be culturally competent and aware. We know from statistics that a third of the people living with HIV are women, and we know that 25% of the new diagnoses are in women, but we also know of the prevalence of HIV in black African communities. Covid taught us—and I am an absolute advocate of this—that we must learn the lessons of really difficult experiences. We learnt through covid about the importance of speaking to people in languages that they understand, in a way that they can relate to, on the media channels that they instinctively use.”
“Member for Brighton, Kemptown made a very important point—I dwelt on it a little when I was thinking about what I wanted to say—about the prevalence of online and postal tests. I think that they are great innovations. Earlier this year, however, I received a little package through the post with the message “Give HIV the finger”—which was a wonderful message, but it was hard to get the required amount of blood out of my finger, and I felt slightly concerned about whether it was enough. I thought, “Will this be effective? Who knows?” For me, much of that process was about being photographed proudly holding up the box, having taken an HIV test.”
“I now know that I don’t have HIV, so I can relax about that, but I also know how important it is to talk about it.” I remember, too, the grief that I was given on social media from the ill-educated, ignorant and—to be frank—bigoted people who used that as a stick with which to beat me: “Ooh—why did she need an HIV test?” Why did I need one? First, to know, and secondly, to be a voice for everyone else who felt anxious about getting an HIV test. I wanted to tell them, “There is nothing wrong with it; there is no stigma attached to it; you are doing it for your own wellbeing.” That is why I now act as a champion for all women, telling them how important it is to go and get a test. The hon.”
“I have always been keen to ensure that I use my role to emphasise to others that it is perfectly okay to go and get a test, and it is also much easier to do so nowadays than it used to be. I was going to say that I had never been afraid, but I vividly recall that Simon Kirby, the hon. Gentleman’s predecessor as Member of Parliament for Brighton, Kemptown, used to arrange in this place, every year, a testing session for Members. I remember Simon telling me, years ago, “Nokesy, you have to go along and get a test”, and I remember rolling my eyes and saying, “I don’t really fancy that.” I was rather terrified of the prospect of going. However, I also remember coming away after the test and thinking, “That was the right thing to do.”
“It has always been a humbling experience for me, in my role as Chair of the Committee, to meet those women living with HIV who have spoken of the barriers that they felt prevented them from taking a test. That is why I commend the work done by organisations such as the Terrence Higgins Trust and, indeed, the all-party parliamentary group, which has always led the way in trying to break down the stigma associated with testing. There should be no such stigma. After all, there has been no stigma attached to covid tests over the past two years; and making oneself aware of one’s own HIV status is actually one of the most empowering actions that an individual can take. That is why, as Chair of the Select Committee and indeed before that—I was about to say, “I have never been afraid”, but that is the wrong term to use.”
“It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Brighton, Kemptown (Lloyd Russell-Moyle), who speaks with such passion, knowledge and indeed experience. I vividly remember being in the Chamber four years ago when he spoke of his own diagnosis, and of how he had coped with the emotional stress and trauma and the physical challenges. Of course it is always a privilege to follow any Member who speaks with such a depth of knowledge. I apologise for the fact that my speech will focus almost exclusively on women. As Chair of the Women and Equalities Committee, I am very conscious that some of the people who are diagnosed at the latest stage, and some of those who are afraid of going for a test, are women.”