Steve Barclay
MP for North East Cambridgeshire · Conservative · United Kingdom
“I speak to my brief exchange earlier with the Minister. As the previous speaker, the hon. Member for Harpenden and Berkhamsted, said, the draft regulations are fairly benign and very welcome to help people who are struggling with their bills.”
“The issue is not the lack of will; the issue is the alignment between procurement, regulation and clinical leadership, particularly in the colleges, as well as the ability to scale innovation—it is not about having more ministerial pilots.”
“Just to localise it to my own constituency, the Cambridgeshire and Peterborough ICB alone paid out £14 million in redundancies last year. It merged with a number of other ICBs to form the Central East ICB, yet we know hear from the Government that it should align with metro mayors, which means going back to exactly what it was before: the…”
“My right hon. Friend is absolutely right: the Government are spending millions of pounds and there is no plan. The measure was announced without working that out, it came as a surprise to many within the system, and it has had a chilling effect on many decisions. That is not isolated.”
“I rise to speak to clause 1 on the abolition of NHS England and clause 6 on promoting innovation. What characterises the first of those is an announcement without any clear plan. That is what has driven the cost and confusion that a number of Members across the House have spoken about.”
“All this is around 18 months on from the actual announcement. The confusion seems to extend to the Government themselves, because they seem unable to answer pretty straightforward written parliamentary questions. Given the time limit, I will give just a few examples.”
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“Lady’s question, the timing is important, but the point is that people can be re-hired as part of the furlough extension.”
“At the risk of repeating myself, I refer the hon. Lady to the reply I gave earlier, but she did make a specific point about those who may have recently been made redundant. [ Interruption. ] Again, the hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Alison Thewliss) chunters from a sedentary position. The hon. Member for Edinburgh West (Christine Jardine) made a specific point about those recently made redundant, and I was just coming on to answer that precise point. Employees notified by real-time information submission to HMRC on or before 30 October are eligible for the furlough extension, but employees employed as of 23 September, which is the day of the job support scheme announcement, and notified to HMRC by RTI on or before that date who have since been made redundant can be re-hired. In answer to the hon.”
“I agree with my right hon. Friend that we need to ensure that the economy is able to bounce back quickly. That is why we have provided over £13 billion of support to the self-employed, which by international comparisons—I know my right hon. Friend looks at international comparisons—he will see is extremely generous. I have described previously in the House some of the operational difficulties, for example with owner-directors in terms of what is dividend income and what is not. The point is that we have set out a generous self-employment income support scheme, but we need to deliver that operationally in a way that meets the tests set by, for example, the Public Accounts Committee, which has asked whether we have the right level of controls in place, given the speed at which these schemes were deployed.”
“The right hon. Gentleman raises a valid and fair point. As I said on my call with the First Minister yesterday, I hope to be in a position to update her this week about the additional Barnett guarantee that we can give. The right hon. Gentleman is right to point to the consequentials that flow from the £1.1 billion of additional local authority funding that the Chancellor set out. He will also have seen, for example, the additional support that the UK Government gave to Transport for London, the rail support measures that we have provided, and so on. Those are the issues on which the Barnett consequentials will be shaped. He is right that it is important for them to have sight of that. That is why we have taken the unprecedented decision to give that up-front guarantee, and I hope to be able to give an update on that later this week.”
“That includes the up to £3,000 a month grant for those with rateable values above £51,000 and the support to local authorities, as I referenced in my response to my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud (Siobhan Baillie) a moment ago, for their discretionary support to specific businesses. It is part of that comprehensive package, but he is right to draw attention to the human consequence of those decisions.”
“My hon. Friend has a deep understanding of business from his career prior to coming to the House. He is absolutely right to talk of the personal consequences, the commitment that people who set up and run businesses have made, and the devastating impact of the virus and its consequences. On the tax position, he will know from his time in the House that those are questions for the Budget and for my right hon Friend the Chancellor. On the support that has been given to businesses, I direct my hon. Friend to the extension of the loans that we have given to help businesses with their cash flow, which recognises that the biggest cost for many businesses is the fixed cost of their property.”
“The Treasury Committee has said that we should be more willing to bring the cohort of the self-employed into scope, yet the Public Accounts Committee has expressed concern that we need to have much stricter operational controls because of the risks, for example, of fraud. We see that difference even between the two Select Committees in this House. Of the different cohorts within what is known as the ExcludedUK campaign, some of those on furlough will be able to come back into scope, but much of the rationale has not changed. Of course, we will continue to look at it.”
“Such has been the number of times that the matter has been raised in the House and through the campaign that, we have looked at it. Some of those issues have not changed—for example, the difficulty of determining what is dividend income as opposed to earned income, as I referred to in my answer to my right hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (John Redwood). We took a decision to target those below the £50,000 threshold. Some of those issues have not changed from the previous period. The hon. Gentleman is right that the furlough allows some of those who were excluded to come within scope, but I draw the House’s attention to the fact that, even within the House, there is a degree of conflict here.”
“For reasons I set out some time ago to the Treasury Committee, and for the reasons set out by the Chancellor, operationally the concern is that while there will of course be many legitimate circumstances in which people wish to make a claim, unfortunately there will also be significant risk of fraud. I pointed to the fact that within the House itself part of the challenge is how we ensure we have the right balance between the speed of delivery—we move quickly to get schemes to people—and the operational controls we put in place. That is why we have taken the position we have.”
“The hon. Lady is right to point to the pivotal nature of leisure centres in our constituencies. I think all Members would agree with that. I draw her attention to the £4.7 billion of additional funding we have given to local authorities as part of our response to covid, and to the discretion we have given local authorities so that they can apply that funding with the local knowledge they have and target it in the most effective way.”
“The coach firms sector has been particularly impacted as a consequence of covid. That is why, in response, we worked with the Department for Education to provide over £70 million of funding for local transport. That has been to the benefit of many, including coach firms. Of course, the wider package of support—for example, the furlough scheme, the cash grants of up to £3,000 for businesses that are closed, the extended loans and so on—applies to the sector as it does to others. The wider package applies, but I also draw my hon. Friend’s attention to the specific education funding that has been provided, which I know has been a help to a number of coach firms.”
“I do find it somewhat surprising to be asked to have a meeting the day after I had a meeting with the First Minister of Scotland, who I assume spoke with the authority of the Scottish Finance Minister. I have regular meetings with the Scottish Finance Minister. I hope, and certainly feel from my point of view, that we have a very constructive dialogue. It is in part due to her representations that the Barnett guarantee—this unprecedented up-front guarantee—was put in place, and I look forward to further discussions with her in the weeks ahead.”
“My right hon. Friend makes an interesting point. She will know that in terms of the epidemiology and the guidance, that is for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, but she is right to point to the economic impact of the measures. That is something on which we continue to have close dialogue with colleagues in the Department of Health and Social Care, to ensure that she gets the clarification she seeks.”
“Several times now I have quoted what was said. The Prime Minister said that the Government will always be there to provide support to all parts of the United Kingdom. It is worth taking a step back and looking at the fact that the UK-wide ability to act is how we have been able to provide so much support across the UK with schemes such as the furlough scheme, the self-employment scheme, the loans, extensions and so forth. It is our ability to act across the United Kingdom that has helped many businesses to weather the storm.”
“It is part of the wider package of support on training—the tripling of traineeships, the £2,000 for apprenticeships, the £2 billion on kickstart—and as we accelerate our infrastructure and bring back the green jobs, such as through the decarbonisation of public buildings, that will also offer new opportunities for training as we deliver our record infrastructure investment.”
“My hon. Friend makes a hugely important point. It is not just the number of jobs that are lost, but the duration of time that people are out of those jobs they that is critical in mitigating the economic scarring that results from this pandemic. That is why my right hon. Friend the Chancellor set out in his winter plan the plan for jobs, which included £2 billion of funding for the kickstart scheme. I was speaking to the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions this morning and I was very pleased to hear about the progress that has already been made on the kickstart scheme, which is up and running and providing support to 16 to 24-year-olds across our constituencies.”
“First, it is perfectly fair and reasonable to target a level of support shaped by the rateable value of the property, which is what my right hon. Friend the Chancellor has done. The hon. Lady is right to point to the fact that within different local authorities there are different pressures, which is why in the £1.1 billion that has been allocated, we have given discretion to local authorities in their ability to then target support to businesses in the way that best meets local needs.”
“My hon. Friend is right to pick out the specific challenges faced by the supply chains, often because they supply multiple sectors; they may not be in a given sector where there are specific issues, but they supply across a number of sectors. Part of the reason we have taken the universal approach on the wider package of schemes, whether on support for cash flow with the loans and grants, or on the direct measures to support the labour market through the furlough and self-employed income support schemes, is to recognise that once one tries to demarcate sectors, that becomes difficult in the supply chain. So part of the package of support that applies to the supply sector is provided through those universal schemes, but he is right about the issues that these businesses face.”
“So this is a response to the health pandemic as much as a response to anything that is geographically determined.”
“First, on the suggestion that there has been a differentiated approach, the point is that a number of arrangements were put in place, for example, with the Mayor of the Liverpool City Region, with civic leaders in your own Lancashire region, Mr Speaker, and with South Yorkshire, because we recognised that there were additional pressures in those communities. We also put in further support retrospectively, recognising that a number of areas had been in tier 2 restrictions for a period. So the suggestion that additional support had not been offered does not stand up to scrutiny. If one accepts the deputy chief medical officer’s advice, it was inappropriate previously to have a national lockdown—Professor Van-Tam set that out—but the pathway of the virus and the infection increase was such that a more comprehensive approach was taken.”
“In short, yes they can. My hon. Friend raises a valid point, which is that a number of businesses will have taken out loans for what they felt was their need at that time. Further restrictions have been placed on businesses, which is why we have extended the period for availability of loans to the end of the year. He is right about that, and I can provide him with that reassurance.”
“One needs to look at the fact that there are two different purposes behind these two schemes, but the fundamental point is that there is no gap between the furlough that was due to expire on 30 October and the new furlough extension.”
“The hon. Lady is conflating several different issues. First, the furlough had not expired; it was running until the end of October. It applied universally until that point, so the suggestion of it being applied differently is simply not the case. Secondly, the purpose and the design of the job support scheme is different from the furlough. The furlough is a response to the need for people to stay at home. The job support scheme is intended to try to encourage them back. That is why the design is for at least 20% of hours—one day in the office. Thirdly, as my right hon. Friend the Chancellor has set out on a number of occasions, the two-thirds support is dynamic in its interaction with the wider support through the £9 billion of additional welfare spending.”
“I am aware of the concerns that my hon. Friend has raised. I point him to the fact that, to date, the Treasury has spent more than £200 billion as part of our comprehensive package of support. We have applied a universal approach in terms of the furlough, loans, business grants and so forth, but I am happy to have further discussions with him in the weeks ahead.”
“I draw the hon. Gentleman’s attention to the future fund, which has provided additional support. On the timing of the furlough extension, I refer him to the answer I gave earlier. Those who have lost their jobs recently could come back through the furlough extension. Those employees employed as of 23 September—the day of the job support scheme announcement—and notified to HMRC by real-time information on or before that date who have since been made redundant can be rehired.”
“I can probably go one better than looking at it myself, because the Economic Secretary to the Treasury, who leads on these matters in the Treasury, will have heard my hon. Friend’s representations and will do so. I know that he is looking at the issue of the coronavirus business interruption loan scheme specifically. On my hon. Friend’s second point, I think that there are 28 creditors, but I know that my hon. Friend the Economic Secretary to the Treasury will follow that up with him.”
“Not least through the eat out to help out scheme, one can see the Chancellor’s support to this sector. Also, VAT was cut from 20% to 5%, and many within the sector have benefited, particularly from the wider universal package of schemes such as the furlough scheme. The exact health advice, as I said to my right hon. Friend the Member for Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes), is a matter for the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care. I will relay the hon. Gentleman’s concerns to him, but this is driven by the epidemiology and the health data; it is not a question of the Treasury acting arbitrarily, as he says.”
“My hon. Friend raises an issue that unites the House. The huge value of the work done by the hospice movement was recognised as part of the package of measures put in place by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor, with £750 million of support for the charity sector and with the hospice movement being specifically identified. I am happy to continue working with my hon. Friend as we work together, and we recognise the importance of that sector.”
“I drew attention earlier to the fact that more than £13 billion had been allocated to the self-employment income support scheme and through the income support grant. That indicates the support that the Treasury has given. The hon. Gentleman draws out, as the Chair of the Treasury Committee did, the specific issues around company directors. I have set out to the House the difficulty of clarifying precisely what is earned income as opposed to dividend income, but it is worth drawing the House’s attention to the fact that more than £13 billion of support has been allocated.”
“As I mentioned earlier, within the £1.1 billion of support to local authorities, we have given them discretion to respond to local needs, and that includes Greater Manchester as a region. On the airport sector specifically, one reason why we have allocated more than £12 billion to test and trace is that one of the key issues, as I was told by that sector, is the importance of travellers being able to be tested quickly and released sooner than has been the case in recent weeks. We are working extremely hard on that issue, because that is one of the key measures, alongside the financial support to local authorities, that would make a real difference to the airport sector.”
“As I said earlier, these are UK-wide schemes. We continue to listen and engage, but the schemes apply on a UK-wide basis. That has been the case throughout, and that continues to be the case now.”
“As we referred to earlier, the point is that the package of support includes the £9 billion of welfare measures and the support that is available through local authorities and targeted at their discretion. I have also set out that there are those within that excluded population, for example those who were employed, who may be able to qualify for the extension, but for the reasons that I have given in a number of earlier replies, part of the challenge from the Public Accounts Committee has been ensuring that we have the right operational controls in place, and that has been one of the difficulties with the cohorts to which the hon. Gentleman refers.”
“I very much welcome the impact that the various support measures have had on Rutland and on the businesses in my hon. Friend’s area. As for the broaden impact of the various measures, the Office for Budget Responsibility produces an independent assessment and it will do so on 25 November. That will provide an updated position, addressing the impacts to which she refers.”
“There is, of course, a balance to be struck between the interests of those who are renting and those who let properties and who also have financial pressures. The hon. Lady referred to the support that has been given, but the best support that can be given to those facing such bills is to help as many of them as possible to retain their jobs, and that is fundamentally what the package of support that we have put in place seeks to achieve.”
“I recognise the point made by my hon. Friend. I have spoken about the impact on the sectors to which he refers. That is why such a comprehensive package of support has been set out, including the job retention scheme, which will now run until 2 December; the generous support for the self-employed; the cash grants of up to £3,000 per month for businesses; the £1.1 billion of council support; and the plans to extend the various loans, and indeed the future fund, to the end of January. This all recognises the wider pressures to which he refers.”
“That is why it is so important to get the right training package in place. This was addressed by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor on 24 September with his winter plan setting out schemes such as the kickstart scheme, which is up and running and is already delivering results. That is how, together, we will weather the storm in terms of bringing forward infrastructure investment but also reskilling people who do lose their jobs.”
“I am slightly surprised to have a question from a former Chief Secretary that does not recognise the infrastructure investment that the Prime Minister set out in the summer and on which my right hon. Friend the Chancellor updated the House through his summer economic update, including the £2 billion going into green jobs and public sector decarbonisation, and the massive investment in High Speed 2, in road investment strategy 2, and in control period 6 through the various rail schemes that the Government have committed to. We are accelerating the delivery of that infrastructure through Project Speed. The right hon. Gentleman is right to speak to the fact that there is a jobs challenge, and I think the concerns about the pressure on employment are shared across the House.”
“First, I refer to the answer I gave earlier about the universal nature of the package. Another such area that my hon. Friend did not mention is the fishing sector, which was particularly impacted not only through its supply of the restaurant trade but through its exports, which were also hit. We have listened to concerns there and put in some additional support. But the best way we will support businesses, whether in the wedding sector or elsewhere, is by getting the virus down. That is why we have taken the comprehensive measures that we have for the next four weeks. That is the best way to be able to open up these sectors and get the people who have been furloughed or supported through the self-employed scheme on to the job support scheme, where they will then qualify for further support from the furlough bonus..”
“I am somewhat surprised that the hon. Gentleman talks of actions when, as a result of our ability to operate UK-wide, we have been able to support nearly 1 million jobs in Scotland. Some 65,000 businesses in Scotland have benefited from the UK Government loan schemes and, as of 31 August, 242,600 employments were furloughed, at a take-up rate of 10%. Significant support has been offered to businesses in Scotland, as indeed it has been to businesses throughout the UK. It is odd that the hon. Gentleman talks about actions and ignores the nearly 1 million jobs that have been supported as a result of the actions that the UK Government have taken.”
“I absolutely support my hon. Friend in her desire to see those businesses able to bounce back, which obviously requires us to get the virus rate down. We recognise that restrictions have affected tourism and hospitality businesses in particular, which is why we have put in place additional support. We will continue to look at ways to support those industries, but the key to doing so is to reduce the rate of infection through the measures that the Prime Minister announced yesterday.”
“The hon. Gentleman is right to talk about the impact on businesses in Northern Ireland and part of that coming through its interconnectivity with the rest of the United Kingdom. As I said in an earlier answer, we will update the Northern Ireland Executive this week on the enhanced Barnett guarantee, but that unprecedented action taken to give an up-front guarantee will enable the Northern Ireland Executive to provide support to businesses. Of course, it will be for them to determine the exact scope of that business support.”
“As Members would expect, all decisions are informed by economic analysis. In terms of an impact assessment, the Office for Budget Responsibility will update its forecasts on 25 November. It is right that we have an independent forecast, and that will be produced in a matter of weeks.”
“As the Prime Minister has already set out, we put in place a £750 million package of support for the charity sector, as part of the more than £200 billion of support that we have given. As he has also said, and clearly demonstrated over recent months, he will continue to listen and adapt as circumstances require.”
“That is simply not correct because the Department of Health, to which we have allocated funding for Track and Trace, is subject to managing public money rules in the same way as any other Department. It is subject to the decisions of its accounting officer and its Ministers in the usual way, so the normal managing public money rules would apply.”
“As my hon. Friend knows, it was largely down to his representations that specific support was put in place—for example, to maintain the ferry link that I know was critical for his constituents—and he deserves great credit for the convincing case that he presented to the Treasury, which secured that additional funding. On the wider point about support to the business community, it is in recognition of the importance of those small businesses that the Government have allocated over £13 billion of support to the self-employment income support scheme, but it is also why the Chancellor has put in place additional measures, such as extending the loans that are available to help those businesses get through this period to, hopefully, the more beneficial period as we come out of the winter period.”
“First, I thank my hon. Friend for recognising the huge contribution of officials in HMRC, the Treasury and, indeed, across Whitehall in ensuring that that business support was delivered at the pace it has been. On the international comparison, I draw my hon. Friend’s attention to the report of the director of the IMF just last week, which I think is probably the best illustration of the way that the UK package of support is seen as offering one of the most comprehensive packages of support. It was recognised by the IMF and I think that shows where it stands in terms of international comparison.”
“I will take away the fair point that the hon. Gentleman raises about publishing guidance and seek to respond to it constructively. In terms of the £20 a head, often representations have been made to me in the Chamber that it is vital for the Government to move at pace to deliver schemes quickly, and to do so fairly. I will not reprise the previous urgent question— the Mayor of Greater Manchester, according to the Labour Front-Bench team, was acting for Great Britain in a way that the Mayor of the Liverpool city region and others were not, which I felt was an unfair characterisation of their position—but the point is that we need to deploy schemes quickly, which is why we have taken the approach that we have.”
“I know that my right hon. Friend is a strong supporter of the Union and part of the strength of the furlough scheme has been its ability to provide support across the United Kingdom; it is a UK-wide scheme. Thanks to the Treasury’s ability to operate a UK-wide scheme, we have been able to put in place more than £200 billion of support—the comprehensive package that I mentioned a moment ago—which is why it stands international comparison in terms of its scale and speed. That was recognised by the IMF director just last week, and the furlough will continue to be a UK-wide scheme.”
“That is why the Prime Minister was right to outline a balanced approach, taking the difficult decisions to save lives and keep the R rate down while doing everything in our power to protect the jobs and livelihoods of the British people. Indeed, the deputy chief medical officer said just yesterday, when supporting the tiered regional approach, that it would be “inappropriate” to enforce a national circuit breaker as it is not “consistent with the epidemiological picture.” In fact, to be fair, the shadow Health Secretary was right also to talk about the wider damage of a national lockdown on our economy and society.”
“May I begin by expressing my condolences, and the condolences of colleagues on these Benches, to the hon. Member for Ashton-under-Lyne (Angela Rayner) on the loss of her aunt? The hon. Lady was right in her opening speech to talk about the shared desire of the British people whom we represent to do the right thing. That is why all Members of this House want to protect the lives not just of our family members, but of our constituents and to balance the actions that are needed to do so with protecting jobs and businesses. The best way to make good for the workers whom she referenced in her motion is to reduce the spread of the virus through targeted action.”