Steve Barclay
MP for North East Cambridgeshire · Conservative · United Kingdom
“I speak to my brief exchange earlier with the Minister. As the previous speaker, the hon. Member for Harpenden and Berkhamsted, said, the draft regulations are fairly benign and very welcome to help people who are struggling with their bills.”
“The issue is not the lack of will; the issue is the alignment between procurement, regulation and clinical leadership, particularly in the colleges, as well as the ability to scale innovation—it is not about having more ministerial pilots.”
“Just to localise it to my own constituency, the Cambridgeshire and Peterborough ICB alone paid out £14 million in redundancies last year. It merged with a number of other ICBs to form the Central East ICB, yet we know hear from the Government that it should align with metro mayors, which means going back to exactly what it was before: the…”
“My right hon. Friend is absolutely right: the Government are spending millions of pounds and there is no plan. The measure was announced without working that out, it came as a surprise to many within the system, and it has had a chilling effect on many decisions. That is not isolated.”
“I rise to speak to clause 1 on the abolition of NHS England and clause 6 on promoting innovation. What characterises the first of those is an announcement without any clear plan. That is what has driven the cost and confusion that a number of Members across the House have spoken about.”
“All this is around 18 months on from the actual announcement. The confusion seems to extend to the Government themselves, because they seem unable to answer pretty straightforward written parliamentary questions. Given the time limit, I will give just a few examples.”
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“My hon. Friend refers to the true figures. The banking market is changing. As he will know, the use of cash has fallen by a fifth in the past decade. The number of branch visits has fallen by a third since 2011. More than a third of UK adults regularly use banking apps. Three fifths of customers are interacting with their current accounts via mobile apps, and more than 600,000 customers over 80 are registered with internet banking. The House must address the reality that the way people bank is changing, and that trend will accelerate as Open Banking comes on stream in January and FinTech progresses. I know from my recent visit to Edinburgh that a number of additional FinTech jobs will be created. The issue is not whether it is possible to prevent changes in the banking market, but how the impact on RBS customers can be mitigated.”
“It is important for us to use the time that we now have in the six months between this announcement and branch closures to ensure that customers can use other services or use post offices as an alternative.”
“I was left a bare eight minutes in which to respond, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I have been generous in taking interventions. I have very little time in which to make some final progress. At the time of the autumn Budget, recognising the importance of this issue and the concerns expressed by Members on both sides of the House, I wrote both to the Post Office and to UK Finance, which represents banks, to further raise public awareness of the banking services offered by the Post Office and, indeed, to ensure that we receive value for money from the £2 billion that the Government will have invested in the post office network between 2011 and 2018. The Government also introduced the access to banking standard, to ensure that customers are properly notified of the alternatives that are available.”
“That precautionary measure helps to future-proof Pool Re, and demonstrates our commitment to maintaining the UK’s position at the forefront of those nations reinforcing their economies against terrorism risks. In terms of Government funding in response to terrorism, we are ensuring, across Government, that affected communities have the right support in place to rebuild and recover from such attacks.”
“The gap means that some businesses may not be insured for a loss of income in specific circumstances, where losses are incurred due to a terrorist attack but there is no physical damage. The lack of physical damage is particularly material in this instance. The Government recognise the need to address that, and I can therefore confirm that we are exploring options, including legislation, and aim to confirm our next steps early in the new year. We have already shown that we are prepared to take action to modernise Pool Re and to support businesses in the UK. We recently finalised changes to the scheme, meaning that it will include cover for physical damage caused by a cyber trigger.”
“Pool Re is now widely regarded as the global leader in the sector, shaping international standards for terrorism insurance cover. Since its launch, Pool Re has successfully reinvigorated the terrorism insurance market in the UK. Pool Re has also protected businesses, paying out more than £600 million, including for the recent attacks in Manchester, for example. The Government are committed to ensuring that Pool Re continues to protect businesses and enables effective terrorism insurance cover. We regularly monitor Pool Re in that context, and agree that in recent years a gap has appeared in its coverage. That is the legitimate point which sits at the core of the hon. Gentleman’s rationale for calling today’s debate.”
“I am very aware of the impact on businesses in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency following the attacks—indeed, he and I met to discuss it with a number of his affected constituents. As he set out, traders in Borough market have had a number of difficulties, particularly in accessing their insurance payments. Accessible insurance is vital for businesses and individuals. It protects them financially from life-changing losses and gives firms extra security and confidence when going about their regular business. That is why, in 1993, when the insurance market stopped offering terrorism cover following the IRA attacks, the Government stepped in to establish Pool Re. That move was made to provide reinsurance cover, to stimulate the private market and to ensure that businesses could access protection again.”
“It is a pleasure, as always, to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Davies. I thank the hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Neil Coyle) for introducing this important debate. The House is united in our condemnation of the atrocity that was committed against his constituents and those of a number of other colleagues. The hon. Gentleman expressed his understandable concern about the number of days taken in responding to the certification of terrorism, and what he perceived to be a delay by the Treasury. To clarify, the Treasury responded to the certificate within 48 hours of its receipt. Clearly the police were focusing on the investigation, and that may have played a part in the number of days that it took for the Treasury to receive that certificate, but the Treasury did respond within 48 hours of doing so.”
“To conclude, I commend the hon. Member for introducing the debate, and for campaigning on behalf of the affected businesses in his constituency. The Government recognise the issue and are working closely with the relevant bodies to reach an appropriate solution. We always hope that we will never have to deal with yet another atrocity, but we must be prepared so that our communities, and the businesses and individuals who make them, do not unduly suffer from horrific attacks on our democracy. Question put and agreed to.”
“NHS England has also provided £1 million to the NHS London region for 2017-18 to assist the health system with meeting the costs of the additional mental health support required following the unprecedented level of major incidents that have occurred in London recently, including, of course, Grenfell—a further tragedy that we have debated in the House. Although we must respond and have responded robustly to the immediate fallout of such atrocities, we must also focus on reducing the terror threat. Cross-Government spending on counter-terrorism is increasing by 30% in real terms from 2015 to 2020, and £700 million has been allocated to counter-terrorism policing this year. Furthermore, the Treasury has provided £24 million of additional funding to help meet costs arising from this year’s terror attacks that have affected police forces.”
“The hon. Gentleman raises a legitimate point. None of us wants to see charities being set up to defraud by exploiting the good will of our constituents in response to such atrocities. He may be aware that the Prime Minister has established a Cabinet Office taskforce to co-ordinate the cross-Government response, to oversee progress and to expedite payments when necessary. She has recognised the issue and is engaged in addressing it. I am also pleased to confirm that NHS England has made money available to the NHS north region to reimburse it for its efforts in respect of the Manchester attack. Unfortunately, some of the health effects will be long term, as I am sure the hon. Gentleman recognises. That is why another £1.6 million will be made available to provide mental health support for those affected.”
“If the FCA finds evidence that a regulated firm has not undertaken due diligence checks, that firm would be in breach of the money laundering regulations. That addresses one of my right hon. Friend’s core questions about who is liable and who enforces the money laundering regulations: it is the FCA’s responsibility to ensure that firms have systems and controls in place to avoid money laundering.”
“Where a bank assesses greater risk, it may take additional measures, including seeking additional documentation and checking the customer’s source of wealth or funds. Banks must conduct ongoing monitoring, including scrutiny of the transactions undertaken throughout the course of the relationship, to ensure consistency with the customer’s business and risk profile. Banks must also undertake reviews of customer records so that information obtained for the purpose of due diligence is kept up to date. The FCA is responsible for supervising banks’ compliance with the money laundering regulations and for ensuring that they maintain systems and controls to prevent financial crime more generally.”
“As I understand it, Lloyds maintains that when it opened the account, it was applying the “industry-wide acceptable documentation”, but I know that my right hon. Friend has concerns in that regard. Since my appointment, I have encouraged the industry to consider the use of new technologies where they are as effective or more effective than existing practices. The increasing digitisation of financial services and products means that it is important that customers can prove who they are online. Firms should develop robust tools to ensure that they know who they are dealing with. In essence, there is scope through an electronic footprint to enhance the standard of customer due diligence in the future.”
“The FCA’s rules expressly require banks to have systems and controls to counter the risk that they are misused for the purpose of financial crime, including money laundering and fraud. The money laundering regulations require banks to verify the identity of their customer and to assess the purpose and intended nature of the business relationship when a customer opens a bank account. A key part of the regulations is a requirement to carry out customer due diligence, which was another of my right hon. Friend’s core concerns. Customer due diligence measures mean verifying the customer’s identity on the basis of information or documents obtained from a reliable source that is independent of the customer.”
“The Financial Conduct Authority is responsible for ensuring that firms meet their legal and regulatory obligations. As my right hon. Friend is aware, the FCA is an independent body. That is vital to its role; its credibility, authority and value would be undermined if it were possible for the Government to simply intervene in its decision making. I will discuss the positive steps that the regulators and industry are taking shortly, but I will first touch on the issue at the core of my right hon. Friend’s concerns. Bank accounts used for fraud and other criminal purposes are a serious concern of the Government, the FCA and the industry, particularly given that authorised push payment scams—the type of fraud to which she refers—are the second biggest payment fraud after card fraud.”
“It is a pleasure, as always, to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone. I pay tribute to the tenacity with which my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Mrs Miller) has championed the cause of her constituent, who has clearly suffered from the traumatic case that she rightly raises with the House today. She outlined that she has been working on this case for some time, including exchanging correspondence with Treasury Ministers last year. I welcome the opportunity to update her on the work of the taskforce that was set up, as she correctly said, by the Prime Minister and on developments with the payment systems regulator and others. To be clear, banks must take action to prevent accounts being used for criminal purposes.”
“The Government will continue to drive appropriate action on these issues, which are so important to all of us in this House.”
“The Home Office has asked Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary and fire and rescue services to conduct a review of police response to fraud at a local level, which my right hon. Friend also raised as a concern. The review will assess how local forces deal with demand, assess risk and provide victim care services and will examine the role of the City of London police as the national lead force for fraud. I thank my right hon. Friend again for raising these issues. The Government recognise the terrible impact of this type of fraud on its victims. There are already strict rules that banks must comply with when opening new accounts, and the independent FCA is responsible for ensuring they do so. The PSR and the industry are doing robust work to tackle all types of fraud, working with the Government’s joint fraud taskforce.”
“Banks and the FCA must do all they can to prevent fraudulent bank accounts from being opened in the first place, but fraud is a much wider problem. The joint fraud taskforce, as my right hon. Friend mentioned, was set up by the Prime Minister when she was Home Secretary in 2016 as a partnership between Government, law enforcement and the financial sector. The taskforce is working in innovative ways to deliver a more effective response to fraud, including by investing £3.1 million, with industry, in a campaign to improve the ability of people and businesses to protect themselves from fraud; working to understand how even more funds can be returned to fraud victims; pursuing a cross-industry strategic plan on so-called “card not present” fraud; and considering what makes victims susceptible to fraud and how to reduce vulnerability.”
“The PSR has outlined milestones for those initiatives to ensure that the momentum is kept up. Although the PSR accepts that not all scams can be prevented, it has taken a decisive step to align incentives and to reduce harm. It has proposed a contingent reimbursement scheme in which banks would reimburse victims when the banks have not met the required best practice standards, provided that the victims had taken appropriate care when making the payment. That speaks to a further point that my right hon. Friend made about compensation. The PSR’s consultation on that scheme is open until 12 January 2018. The consultation gives a clear sign to consumers that the regulator is on their side, and the PSR will respond to it in due course.”
“Friend the Member for Basingstoke also raised the issue of the Payment Systems Regulator, which is leading the work on this type of scam where someone is tricked into making a payment to the wrong account or into paying the fraudster directly. The Government have made it clear that more should be done to stop that happening and to mitigate the harm caused when it does happen. I am pleased to say that progress is being made. The PSR’s ongoing programme of work with industry aims to reduce the risk of the scams occurring and to reduce the damage that they cause. Existing initiatives include better data sharing between banks, a function to enable customers to be sure who they are transferring money to and best practice standards for the reporting of scams.”
“Friend will appreciate and recognise that there is a balance to be struck in terms of the level of scrutiny required for due diligence checks. Recently, the hon. Member for Bristol West (Thangam Debbonaire) raised the issue that, at the other end of the spectrum, refugees often experience concerns about their ability to open a bank account because banks ask for levels of documentation that give them the impression that they are being prevented from opening accounts. So the balance is between a proportionate level of due diligence checks and a level that does not stop refugees, for example, being able to legally open a bank account. My right hon.”
“I will come to some of the steps that are being taken to mitigate that. The key point is whether the standards applied met the requirements of the money laundering regulations or whether there was a loophole. I know that my right hon. Friend has corresponded with the FCA on that point. As I say, if the FCA finds evidence that a firm has not undertaken its due diligence checks, that firm would be in breach of the money laundering regulations. Where a bank falls short of its obligations, the FCA has shown that it is capable of taking action through multi-million pound fines for two of the largest banks in recent years. At the same time, the FCA must ensure that its supervisory regime is proportionate and efficient and that its unintended consequences are minimised. I am sure my right hon.”
“As I understand it, my right hon. Friend draws a distinction between systemic responsibility for the rules of a firm as a whole and responsibility for individual cases, but if I have mischaracterised that distinction, I am happy to write to her. My understanding is that responsibility for firm-wide systems and controls falls to the FCA, but specific one-off cases of fraud are in the police’s remit, so it is for the police to look at individual cases. I am very happy to follow up that point in further discussions.”
“We need to look at the balance of responsibilities between the FCA as regulator and banks in individual cases. I hope my right hon. Friend will be reassured to hear that, partly as a consequence of her tenacity in raising her constituent’s case, the Prime Minister has announced a review of police response and a suite of measures on the FCA, on standards and on the role of the PSR, to ensure that others do not suffer as my right hon. Friend’s constituent has. Question put and agreed to .”
“I am acutely aware of the problem that my right hon. Friend raises. Whether the correct information was collected in her constituent’s case is an issue of fact: I understand from Lloyds that it was, but my right hon. Friend may care to differ. Her point about the remit of the police illustrates the reason the Prime Minister asked Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary when she was Home Secretary to review the role of the police in addressing these issues. All hon. Members recognise how traumatic these cases are. Prevention is better than cure, which is why the industry is taking measures through the PSR. Where fraud occurs, we need to look at how the responsibility of the banks aligns with potential compensation. The PSR consultation is open until mid-January, and I am sure my right hon. Friend will want to contribute to it.”
“The regulations have been welcomed by the industry and by the London Market Group, which represents London’s insurers and reinsurers. I commend the regulations to the Committee.”
“Non-UK investors will be taxed according to the rules of their home jurisdiction. That tax treatment follows the policy aim of the UK’s existing tax regulations for insuring special purpose vehicles, which is set out in the Taxation of Insurance Securitisation Companies Regulations 2007, a document I know you are very familiar with, Mr Davies. The tax regulations we debate today provide for broadly similar outcomes but in a much more straightforward way. In conclusion, Members have heard that insurance-linked securities are a growing market. Indeed, 2017 has seen record issuance of insurance-linked securities with more than $11 billion-worth in this year alone. It is, therefore, the right time for the UK to improve its offer in this market.”
“The PRA and the FCA will carefully supervise protected cell companies, with the PRA ensuring that each cell is fully capitalised. The regulations ensure that only sophisticated or institutional investors can be offered insurance-linked securities in the UK and take on this risk. These are complicated financial instruments and it would be wrong for retail investors to be able to purchase them. Finally, the risk transformation tax regulations set out an appropriate and straightforward tax treatment for transformer vehicles that issue these securities in the UK. To ensure that UK transformer vehicles are competitive and straightforward to use, under the regulations tax is charged at the level of the investor rather on the transformer vehicle itself. For UK investors, tax will be charged as normal, according to their circumstances.”
“Finally, the tax regulations set out an appropriate and straightforward tax treatment for the transformer vehicles that issue these securities. The Government are also introducing a new form of corporate body called a protected cell company in these regulations. A protected cell company allows for the efficient management of multiple insurance-linked security deals within a single company, rather than establishing a new vehicle for each individual deal. The structure of a protected cell company requires each to be held in a cell, with each cell’s assets and liabilities ring-fenced from one another. That type of structure is already common in the insurance-linked securities market but has not been available in the UK until now.”
“That is why at Budget 2015 the then Chancellor announced that the Treasury, the Financial Conduct Authority and the Prudential Regulation Authority would work closely with the London insurance market to develop a fit-for-purpose framework for insurance-linked security business in the UK. The regulations comprise four main elements. First, the regulations provide for UK regulators to apply a new authorisation and supervisory regime for the vehicles that issue insurance-linked securities in the UK. Secondly, the regulations introduce a new type of company called a protected cell company to enable multiple deals to be managed in a single company. Thirdly, the regulations set out the rules for the issuance of securities by protected cell companies, so that the interests of protection buyers and investors are protected.”
“It is a pleasure, Mr Davies, to serve under your chairmanship. The regulations introduce a bespoke regulatory and tax framework for insurance-linked securities business in the UK, completing a process that was announced at Budget 2015. Insurance-linked securities enable insurers and reinsurers to transfer risk to the capital markets. That is an important and growing part of the global specialist reinsurance market. As of 2017, more than $90 billion-worth of insurance-linked securities have been issued. However, despite the importance of London as a global insurance hub, the rapid growth of the insurance-linked securities market has taken place elsewhere.”
“As I said, UK investors will be taxed in the same way as they would be if they received interest or dividends from any other company. There is not an issue of lost taxation, because this tax will be applied to entities that are not currently domiciled in the UK. I hope that I have addressed Members’ questions. I commend the draft regulations to the Committee. Question put and agreed to . DRAFT RISK TRANSFORMATION (TAX) REGULATIONS 2017 Resolved, That the Committee has considered the draft Risk Transformation (Tax) Regulations 2017. —(Stephen Barclay.)”
“I reassure the Committee that the UK will not lose any revenue from this tax treatment, as none of the deals concerned are currently domiciled in the UK. There is already a similar treatment for transformer vehicles in UK legislation—the Taxation of Insurance Securitisation Companies Regulations 2007—but that legislation has been too complicated for the industry to use, so the draft regulations simplify the treatment of those vehicles. It is also worth pointing out that international competitors already offer a similar tax treatment. Without a competitive and appropriate approach to this tax, the UK would lose out on business that is important to the future of our global reinsurance industry and to our position as a world leader in specialist reinsurance business. That was the shadow Minister’s opening point.”
“It is important to reiterate that the principle behind this tax treatment is similar to the way Lloyd’s members are currently taxed on their syndicate participation, albeit the mechanics of how it is achieved are different because of the different legal characteristics of the entities involved. Investors in Lloyd’s are treated as if they had participated in profit-generating insurance activities directly, rather than through an intermediary—a syndicate. Also, a vehicle cannot qualify for this tax treatment without authorisation from the UK regulatory framework—the Prudential Regulation Authority and the Financial Conduct Authority. That is a further safeguard. The hon. Member for Aberdeen North, who speaks for the Scottish National party, asked, legitimately, whether any tax would be lost as a result of these measures.”
“We are discussing a business that is conducted outside the UK from which the UK has the potential to benefit, as opposed to a business that is currently conducted in Europe. The shadow Minister raised safeguards. It is important to flag that, unlike conventional reinsurers, these vehicles do not pool risk; every deal must be fully collateralised. A transformer vehicle must raise and hold collateral that is at least sufficient to meet its insurance obligations, so an inherent safeguard is built into the design of these products. A further safeguard—it is important to reiterate this—is that the products can be accessed only by sophisticated or institutional investors, so there is no risk of retail investors failing to understand the products on the market. Several Members raised the issue of tax.”
“I thank Committee members for their probing but very interesting questions about the rationale for this policy. The shadow Minister is right to say that we are proud of the insurance industry in the United Kingdom for its global reach and its potential. He mentioned the context of Brexit. These measures were initiated in the 2015 Budget, but Brexit reinforces the benefit of increasing the UK’s influence over this part of the market, which is already well established but is currently conducted offshore. Bringing it within the UK will give UK regulators—the Financial Conduct Authority and the Prudential Regulation Authority—more influence over it than they have under current arrangements. With Brexit, this is the kind of global business that the UK should be competing in. EU insurers already use these vehicles and deals outside the EU.”
“The UK economy is fundamentally strong: we have seen 19 consecutive quarters of growth; unemployment is at its lowest level for 42 years; and the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts that a further 600,000 people will be in work by 2022.”
“I very much agree. It is for that reason that the Budget set out a devolution 2 deal with Andy Street, including £250 million for transport schemes such as junction 10 of the M6.”
“It is for investment of exactly the sort the hon. Gentleman mentions that we have invested in the national productivity investment fund, including a further £8 billion that was set out in the Budget.”
“I know that the Treasury Committee, which my right hon. Friend chairs, and the Financial Policy Committee keep that matter under constant review. It is always assessed in line with the cyclical buffers that the FPC sets for the banks.”
“The Government are not selling the shares now. The Budget set out our intention, which it has always been, to return the bank to the private sector and sell those shares by the end of 2018-19. I am sure the hon. Gentleman recognises that the balance sheet is half the size it was in 2008, when his party paid 502p a share. The bank is therefore in a very different place from the mess we inherited from the Labour party.”
“As a result of the Government’s action to bring the public finances back under control, the Office for Budget Responsibility has forecast a sustained reduction in debt as a share of GDP from next year onwards. Debt will fall from 86.5% to 79.1% of GDP by 2022-23. That will be the first sustained decline in debt for 17 years.”
“Increasing debt by £500 billion would increase debt interest by £7 billion a year, which would reduce our economic and fiscal resilience, crowd out spending on valuable services, and pass a greater debt burden to future generations.”
“As the right hon. Gentleman will have heard from my earlier reply, that bank is in a very different place from where it was in 2008 when the shares were purchased. That reflects the action that has been taken to simplify the balance sheet and to make the bank safer and more streamlined.”
“I am always happy to meet the hon. Gentleman. As he is aware, this is a policy area for the FCA, and I am sure that it will set out further details in due course on how historical debt will be covered.”
“I am of course happy to meet my hon. Friend to discuss the proposals. One of the issues the industry has been discussing is the role of the Financial Ombudsman Service and how it can step in to give greater comfort to those who need to bring claims.”
“Ordered , That the debate be now adjourned .—(Mike Freer.) Debate to be resumed tomorrow.”
“I am sorry to break the news to her, which I am sure will come as a shock. This Budget builds on the heavy lifting the Government have done to bring down the deficit by three-quarters since 2010 through delivering 19 consecutive quarters of growth. It ensures we remain on track to meet our fiscal targets, while continuing to invest in our core public services. It expands the national productivity investment fund by a further £8 billion, meaning that in real terms the Government will spend £25 billion a year more on infrastructure than the average spending under the last Labour Government. This is a balanced Budget, in contrast to a Labour Opposition who always go too far. They would borrow £500 billion and burden the country with huge debt interest payments. This is a Budget that ensures Britain is fit for the future.”