Jonathan Reynolds
MP for Stalybridge and Hyde · Labour (Co-op) · United Kingdom
“I thank my hon. Friend for her engagement, her support and her advocacy on behalf of her constituents. This has been and is a difficult situation for them, and it is exactly because of our commitment that we are seeking to resolve things in a favourable way.”
“I welcome the support from the hon. Gentleman for the decisive action we are taking. On his point about potentially combining British Steel and, if it were acquired in the public interest, Speciality Steel UK, I urge caution in that regard.”
“I think it important to point out that there are costs either way: there are costs involved in running the business in public ownership, and there would also be costs to the state from the remediation and regeneration, partly because of the legacy of public ownership but also because such big steel industrial sites come with so many issue…”
“I am grateful to my hon. Friend for her advocacy on behalf of her constituents. She and I have discussed the matter several times. For colleagues who are less aware of the issue, Dalzell is a separate legal entity and company from Speciality Steel and thus separate from the full plans that we are talking about.”
“The process to date has in effect been working with potential private sector bidders on the viability of their plans. That task is entirely different from what we can do now, which is essentially to assess whether there is a viable future for this business under public acquisition.”
“Of course, CBAMs are fundamentally about trying to maintain fair competition between carbon-intensive sectors in developed countries such as ours and the rest of the world, so there is a little bit of incoherence there, to say the least.”
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“I am hugely grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention. I believe I am correct in saying that he is not only a metrologist, but the first metrologist elected to Parliament. I put no heavy expectations on his speech today, but we are all looking forward to it with interest. My hon. Friend is right that there are areas where we will choose to work with international standards, and there will be areas where we choose to diverge, but that decision is made possible only by having the powers to begin with. No decisions will be made in this Bill, if it becomes an Act of Parliament, as to how we will do that; however, without it, we would not have the toolkit to make those decisions. The essence of these proposed laws is that we are taking back control for the House of Commons and Parliament to make these kinds of decisions.”
“I am extremely grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for that intervention; he always brings wisdom to these debates. I can absolutely give him the assurance that the Bill makes no decision as to how we should use these powers. The reason we are bringing it forward today is the same reason the previous Conservative Government first proposed a Bill of this kind: having left the European Union, we need the powers to properly regulate these products in this way; without this legislation, we would not necessarily have the ability to do that.”
“I am more than happy to make that clear. We see that in a number of areas—it is the case across the whole field of regulation. Let us look at AI, which is topical right now: we have chosen a different regulatory path in the UK from the European Union, which is to our economic advantage. I am very confident in the approach that we are taking. I am sure that when I get to the provisions of the Bill, and in particular when it comes to weights and measures, the whole House will be united in being able to say that we believe that traditional British standards are particularly important to us. I say again, however, that having the power to set standards in itself makes no decision as to how these powers are used. We can all clearly recognise the need to repatriate these powers to our own statute book.”
“The right hon. Gentleman will have heard me say just now that our intention is to cement the UK’s status as a world leader in product regulation and safety. I am sure we would all recognise the tremendous benefits for both consumers and businesses that come from being a jurisdiction whose consumer protections are widely recognised and where people have confidence that the goods and services they buy will be to the highest standard possible. Where we see gaps in our provision, because of the substantial change that has occurred with our leaving the European Union, we would surely want to fill those gaps so that we are in a position to continue our success in this area.”
“Once again, I say politely to anyone on the Opposition Benches who is not quite reassured that the previous Conservative Government were planning a similar Bill to fill this exact gap in the statute book.”
“I can explain it very clearly. Colleagues who are interested in this legislation will have followed the proceedings in the other place and the discussions on this area. I put the case very straightforwardly: we do not have the ability without this Bill to regulate product standards in a whole range of areas. There are some cases where there will be a strong consumer or business demand for alignment with other jurisdictions; there will also be cases where we wish to diverge, because we see that as being in our economic interests. However, we surely all accept that we cannot have a position where we do not have the ability to regulate key products, and in particular products that have come from the new technology that is available and the opportunities that come from that.”
“As ever, I am particularly grateful to the right hon. Member for his courtesy. To my hon. Friend the Member for Blackley and Middleton South (Graham Stringer), I say that clause 2(7) says: “Product regulations may provide that a product requirement is to be treated as met if—”. It clearly says “may” and “if”. Again, I say that there will be times when it is in our economic interest to have a close relationship with the product standards in, for instance, the European Union or another jurisdiction. There will also be times when it is not. That will be our choice. I think we would all recognise the absence of powers without this Bill.”
“Perhaps it will be of use to the House if I say a little about that journey and the work of the other place in this regard. I wish to thank in particular my ministerial colleague, Lord Leong, for his great efforts in taking the Bill through the other place. I also thank the many Members and Committees of the other House for their assistance in creating what I believe is strong and effective legislation—legislation that will benefit millions of UK businesses, tens of millions of consumers, and, of course, all those who enjoy a pint or two at the pub.”
“That was obviously part of a very wise set of remarks that I made from the Dispatch Box. But, yes, we must recognise that. I say again, because the Bill has been through the other place, that changes have been made as a result of that feedback: we have removed a number of Henry VIII powers; we have introduced a consultation requirement; we have provided for additional affirmative resolution procedures; and we have said that we will publish a code of conduct that sets out the statutory and non-statutory controls to ensure that regulation is proportionate, evidence-based and developed through consultation. Because of the process that we have been through, we have responded to the kind of concerns that I was wisely articulating in relation to primary legislation.”
“That is why, to be frank, I am somewhat bemused by the reasoned amendments tabled today. The Bill will ensure that the UK is better placed to address modern-day safety issues. It gives us the power to better regulate items such as potentially dangerous baby sleep products and toys. It will enable us to reduce burdens on business and keep up with technological developments, for example by updating the outdoor noise regulations in Great Britain. It will align testing methods across the UK, which was overwhelmingly supported in our recent call for evidence, and it will protect the public from noise pollution from products like lawn mowers and power generators.”
“The consumer and technology landscapes that we have today are almost unrecognisable from those we had 20 or 30 years ago, so the products that we buy and the way in which we buy them are evolving rapidly. That means that the relevant rules and regulations must adapt, too. If we are to protect consumers and businesses, especially smaller firms, that is essential. As we have examined in some detail, product regulation and metrology are policy areas that have largely been repatriated from the EU following our withdrawal in 2021. Since then the UK Government have simply not had the necessary powers to continue regulating these areas effectively. We have brought forward this legislation so that we can respond to anticipated changes in the global regulatory landscape.”
“We would say with confidence that there was never a danger to the pint, but because of the concerns that were raised in the other place and perhaps by some colleagues here, I am more than happy to have made the changes to assure everyone present and everyone watching that the pint will be defended and secured in the Bill. I have to say that I have received no entreaties from businesses that they wish to sell in imperial measurements. However, if the right hon. Gentleman believes that there is an absence of provisions in the Bill, he can write to me and I shall write back to him and hopefully be able to reassure him. I think he may be misplaced in thinking that that is a principal issue for UK businesses. As all hon. Members know, the digital age in which we live has created significant growth opportunities.”
“This Bill is about keeping the public safe. The Office for Product Safety and Standards has taken action in this area already. It has issued 26 withdrawal notices on eight online marketplaces, two manufacturers and 16 sellers. This has removed two dangerous models of e-bike battery from sale, and I am glad that the legislation we are discussing today will allow us to consider further steps on enforcement.”
“Some people have paid for this with their homes and, in some cases, their lives. I think we would all recognise that that is unconscionable. I want to pay tribute to the family of Sofia Duarte. Sofia tragically died when a bicycle that had been converted into an e-bike burst into flames. The bike’s lithium battery pack failed, causing a fire on new year’s day 2023. I know that the whole House will join me in recognising the bravery and courage of Sofia’s family in campaigning for change in memory of their daughter and in fighting for better regulation of e-bikes, along with the batteries and chargers associated with them. I also thank the London Fire Brigade for its campaigning on this issue in recent years. It has been on the frontline, seeing at first hand the devastation that has been wrought by some of these products.”
“Critically, we are able to protect consumers by reducing the number of unsafe and non-complying goods that are sold online. This could include asking sites to verify third-party sellers before allowing them to list their goods or to have a product safety reporting function for customers on their sites. One example is e-scooters and e-bikes, which like many products are reliant on lithium-ion batteries. These batteries have been attributed as the cause of a number of fires in recent years, both in households and on public transport. While we know that the vast majority of products are safe, in recent years we have seen some goods mis-sold by a minority of unscrupulous manufacturers and sellers. As a result, low-standard, high-risk products have been able to enter the UK market.”
“I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his concern and his regard. I believe that if we were of the view that a product was a danger to the public, the right hon. Gentleman would expect me as Secretary of State in my Department to take action. If he is concerned about provisions in the Bill, he can look to the changes that have been made. It has been through an extensive scrutiny process in the other place, particularly in relation to the powers and delegated powers given to the Secretary of State. I think he recognises the case we are making for the safety of the public; indeed, it is why Opposition Members themselves recognise the need for a Bill of this kind. The Bill will help to create a level playing field between the high street and online marketplaces.”
“I am sorry that we have not convinced the right hon. Gentleman, but I am certain that the Government need powers in this area. We need to be able to respond to fast-moving changes in technology and regulation. The public would expect me, as Secretary of State, as well as my Department and the Government, to have these powers to keep them safe. Perhaps we have not convinced him at this stage, but he can look at proceedings in the other place and in Committee.”
“I find that when political parties go into opposition, all of a sudden they seem less keen on the Government having decisive powers to take action in a whole range of areas. We have listened carefully to the criticism from the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee, and significant changes have been made to the legislation, which I am happy to take the hon. Member through. They relate to the number of Henry VIII powers, the consultation requirement and the additional affirmative resolution procedure. We are always seeking feedback. I will now go through some of the other amendments that were made in the other place.”
“The Bill will help to create a fairer environment for high street shops and small businesses, support our growth mission and provide better protection for millions of consumers. For all those reasons, I commend the Bill to the House.”
“That means, Madam Deputy Speaker, that in a few weeks’ time, when I hope you will confirm to the House that the Bill has received Royal Assent, we will all be able to raise a pint—protected under statute—to the Bill. I did inquire about whether I was allowed to bring a pint with me to the Chamber to illustrate the point, but that is apparently not in order; only the Chancellor has that ability. Given the week I am having, perhaps we will look at that at a later date. To summarise, this legislation will finally enable the Government to properly regulate in areas where we have been unable to do so post Brexit. It will also give us the tools we need to better regulate modern-day consumer products.”
“Secondly, the Bill now includes a requirement for me, as the Secretary of State, to publish a statement setting out how my Department expects to identify and assess high-risk products. Finally, contrary to previous suggestions from the Conservative party, the great British pint will clearly not be affected by this legislation, whether that is ale, cider or indeed milk. We do not believe that the Bill in its original form posed any threat to the pint, but we do not want to run the risk of colleagues thinking that my reassurances are small beer, so we accepted an amendment tabled in the other place that will give the pint statutory protection.”
“On Second Reading, we have a Bill that is even stronger than the one that started in the other House. Once again, I thank all our colleagues in the other place for their constructive feedback and contributions to the debate. I will not go through every change that has been made, but I will mention some aspects of the Bill that have been strengthened. First, we have amended the Bill to ensure that there is more parliamentary scrutiny, and we have provided for a statutory consultation requirement to ensure that regulations are informed by those who would be impacted by them. There will also be that additional use of the affirmative procedure for regulations stemming from the Bill.”
“The hon. Member was a senior member of the previous Government and played a well-known role in the mini Budget, as well as a number of other things that that Government did. Will he confirm that they were planning exactly the same piece of legislation because of an absence in the statute book?”
“I want to directly answer the point made by the right hon. Member for South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison) and provide clarification that I have just sought. Clause 2(7)(a) is not about alignment; it is about recognition. We already recognise certain EU product requirements on a mutual recognition basis, and where it is of benefit to do so, that is what the clause allows. Rather than take European standards as the basis for our own and align with them, it enables that where it is recognised that we have the interest. I can write to him in detail if he wishes.”
“This is a little off-topic for a Second Reading, but the hon. Gentleman could have just listened to the “Today” programme this morning. He would have heard me articulate those concerns. We are engaged with our US counterparts, more so than any other country, in those negotiations. He will know that I will not share the content or detail of those talks. The policy originates with the President of the United States and we are responding to and engaging with it. The hon. Gentleman will understand that it comes from the mandate and the agenda of the US Administration.”
“I am really grateful to the hon. Gentleman for engaging with the issues about product safety and consumer protection in the Bill, and he is making a serious speech in relation to them. First, on the point of the customs union, which was skilfully woven into his speech, that would preclude us from reaching any arrangements with the United States, India, the Gulf states or other countries. For my money, if we wish to be part of something without a say in how it would affect our trade policy, that would be a very difficult position to take. I will come back to the references made by Conservative MPs, who often feel like they are fighting the old, last war. They cannot get past it—”
“I will, Madam Deputy Speaker. In relation to the number of references made to the EU in this Bill, the EU is explicitly referenced simply because UK product regulations are derived from a lot of EU regulations. We have to reference that when looking to the future, particularly when we recognise some of those European standards, but it is wrong to simply look at those references and try to make them out to be something they are not.”
“More than 3 million workers are expected to receive a pay rise due to increases to the national minimum wage in April, protecting the lowest paid in society. After our changes to the remit, we accepted in full the recommendations of the Low Pay Commission, which considers the impact of rates on business, competitiveness, the labour market, the wider economy and the cost of living. Our impact assessments are available only by region—estimates by constituency are not available—but the simple truth is that workers in every constituency are better off under this Labour Government.”
“The plan to make work pay is a core part of our mission to grow the economy, raise living standards and create opportunities for all, and there will be significant benefits for workers in insecure and low-paid jobs in central Scotland, including in Airdrie and Shotts. This plan is about making people stay in work. It is about making work more secure and more family-friendly, improving living standards and putting more money in workers’ pockets, but it is also about showing that politics can work for people who may have given up on this place as somewhere that can improve their living standards, their lives and those of their families. For that, I am very proud of this Government.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for his support. Around 140,000 workers in north-east England will feel the benefits of this direct pay rise. I know his North Durham constituency well—I am no stranger to Chester-le-Street—and not only will his constituents get a pay rise, but his local shops, his restaurants, his pubs and more will get what they need most of all: customers who have got a bit of money to spend.”
“Again, money was promised but not delivered. If promises are made, the resources to do those things have to be there. They were not there under the Conservative party. They are under Labour.”
“The thing I would cite most of all to the hon. Member’s constituents is the doubling of the employment allowance in the Budget and the threshold being removed, which means that some smaller businesses will actually be paying lower national insurance contributions than they would have paid before the Budget. However, I never shy away from the fact that the choices we had to make in the Budget were out of necessity, due to the black hole that was left behind. I am yet to hear any offer from Conservative Members as to how they would fill it. At these questions, we will talk about tripling compensation for victims of the Post Office Horizon scandal only because the money is there. It was not there under the Conservative party. We will talk about money for the steel industry, standing behind that industry.”
“They show that fewer people have been made redundant over the past 12 months than in the year before, so I am afraid that the doom-mongers of the Conservative party have been proved absolutely wrong by the statistics that we have.”
“As I have said to Conservative Members before, of course we are very sensitive to the aggregate impact of Government policy, because, frankly, having observed the Conservative Governments of the previous 14 years, I thought they completely missed this point and at many times had different Departments doing completely opposing things. I want to say something specific on business rates. No business rates relief was planned had the Conservative party won the election. The reduction to 40% was an increase in what was in the national accounts—again, short-term decisions for short-term, partisan, political benefit; no serious plan for the future. The hon. Gentleman will have seen the figures from the Insolvency Service this week, which are very interesting.”
“Small businesses need a better deal—certainly better than the one they got from the last Government—and our small business strategy, which is due this year, is designed to do that. We have already provided more support through the British Business Bank; we have worked with the Federation of Small Businesses to take action on issues such as late payment and retail crime; and we have announced the creation of the new business growth service, which aims to transform business support services. Later today I will attend a small business summit in Sussex to progress those plans and meet small business leaders.”
“Friend for her outstanding leadership in galvanising parliamentary support for that campaign, and I hope it will have unanimous agreement in every part of the House.”
“I agree 100% with my hon. Friend and thank her very much for her question. She will know that my Department, alongside the Treasury and the Ministry of Defence, convened a roundtable in December to listen to these perspectives, and now all three Departments are working together to ensure that the problems she has articulated do not occur. It is essential that the British people do not think that the substantial, significant and historic investments in defence that this Government are making come in some way at the expense of domestic prosperity. There is no prosperity without security, but we should also acknowledge the tremendous economic contribution made by our defence sector—there is not a foreign and domestic split in that regard. I thank my hon.”
“My Department has a very strong relationship with the ceramics sector through the Energy Intensive Users Group. We have regular meetings with that group, and I would also like to mention the British Ceramic Confederation and our old friend Rob Flello, who is a strong voice for the sector. There are many challenges for the ceramics sector, not least decarbonisation, but on the subject of consumer protection, it is firmly against UK consumer law for firms—wherever they are located—to give consumers false information, such as through fake product markings. We have strengthened the regime in this regard, with new enforcement powers for the Competition and Markets Authority coming into force next month, but I will of course get my hon. Friend any meeting she requires.”
“I, too, have heard the kinds of stories that the hon. Gentleman has articulated—there are definitely concerns in that regard. Broadly, the Government’s regulation agenda is not necessarily about deregulation, but about effective and proportionate regulation. I feel that our regulatory sector has grown a lot in recent years, and that it does not always compare well to those of other countries in terms of timeliness and business response. That is the agenda we are pursuing, but I will certainly write to the hon. Gentleman about the issues he has raised, which are very relevant. I appreciate the opportunity to do so and thank him for raising them today.”
“I thank the hon. Member for her question, and I thank Alison and Kevin for their important work. We already talked about the difficult choices that the Government faced and the unenviable choices that had to be made. Health and social care was a beneficiary of the additional revenue that needed to be raised to meet some of the challenges we face, but we are not casual about the impact of that, and we recognise the pressures that come from that. I would say that I do not agree. Taxes have to apply to every sector, and we cannot carve out certain sectors. However, I appreciate the pressures that she articulates. That is why the rest of the Government’s agenda is set to address all those factors.”
“If we were listing the difficult things that small businesses had to deal with in the previous 14 years, we would be here for most of the day and the weekend, if we are being honest. Whether it is how the Conservatives handled Brexit, the mini-Budget or austerity, we could go on and on. I say to the hon. Member that we are not casual about what we have had to ask of business because of the unenviable situation we inherited, but the fundamentals of the UK are incredibly strong in political stability and openness to the world, and we have the changes we are making to planning, skills, regulation and energy to make sure we are delivering.”
“Finally, we have engaged closely with the new US Administration, including Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick and the new US trade representative, Jamieson Greer. The new US trade policy is challenging, but we believe that our decision to engage and seek potential agreement on a new economic deal between the UK and the US offers us an opportunity to ensure that the UK is the best-connected market in the world.”
“My Department works night and day to deliver our plan for change by making Britain the best place to invest, work and do business. This Government have provided political stability and openness to the world, and we are continually improving the business environment. Since the last Business and Trade questions, we have published a new steer for the Competition and Markets Authority so that it has growth and investment in mind, and more pro-business regulatory reforms will follow. In Delhi last month, I relaunched our trade negotiations with India, and I have just returned from Tokyo, where the Foreign Secretary and I announced a first-of-its-kind industrial strategy partnership with Japan. We are also ensuring that our “make work pay” reforms deliver for businesses and workers.”
“I would say that businesses in the hon. Lady’s constituency should contact their local Conservative MP and say, “What was your plan?” because I think we have had three oral question sessions where this has broadly been the only thing that the Conservatives have to say. I genuinely want to know: what was the plan to pay for Post Office compensation? What was the plan to pay for the steel industry? When the Conservatives commissioned the public sector pay bodies with the remit that they were given, got the findings back, hid them and did not tell the British people during the general election campaign, what was the plan? How would they have reconciled that? The small business leaders, and businesses of every size, in the hon. Lady’s constituency know how to make difficult decisions. What—”
“The hon. Gentleman may have not seen the news recently, but the UK, led by our Prime Minister, has had the best engagement of any country with the new US Administration. Is it not good to see again a British Prime Minister who is respected on the world stage and delivering for Britain? We have had tremendous engagement with the new US Administration, and I am looking forward to meeting them in person next week.”
“On steel and aluminium tariffs, the US Administration’s position is that there are no exemptions for anybody—that is across the board. I think they recognise the very strong case that we have, but that is their position. No, I will not publish my negotiating red lines before a negotiation. Frankly, that is the worst advice I have ever heard in the House of Commons. The Conservative party fell out with the EU, would not deal with China and could not do a deal with India. It fell out with the United Arab Emirates and could not do a deal with the Gulf. It got nothing out of the US. It did deals with Australia and New Zealand, then disowned them. We will take no lessons from the Conservatives.”
“We reserve the right to take any action in response to any changes to our trading relationships, but I do think we can look to the opportunity for the UK, which is greater than for any other country, to get to an agreement that improves our terms of trade with the US. I reserve the right to take any action, but I think we can look forward in a positive way to improving that trading relationship, and that right now is my message and focus.”
“There are many Members called Chris. I thank my hon. Friend for his question. As he will know, the creative industries are part of our industrial strategy. We are hugely proud of their soft power and economic impact, and of course we will get him the meeting he requests.”
“The simple position is that we will represent the UK’s national interest in this matter. The US has objections about its significant deficits in manufacturing goods with China and the EU, but that is not the relationship between the US and the UK, so there is a chance for the UK to pursue a different policy —one that produces greater benefits for every part of the UK than perhaps are available to other countries. Of course we are cognisant of the overall impact—no one wants to see this type of turmoil in the global economy—but our job is to deliver for the UK, and that is exactly what we are focused on doing.”
“I am incredibly grateful to the Chair of the Business and Trade Committee for that question. He is right to say that the challenge here is not just the direct trade we have with the US, but the impact of trade diversion. He knows we already have 16 anti-dumping, anti-subsidy measures in place against 14 separate product categories. Once the annual tariff-free quota is hit, a 25% tariff applies to those. I can tell him and the House today, though, that I will support UK Steel’s application to the Trade Remedies Authority for a review of the steel safeguards—we do have to think about what will be coming—and a new one for the aluminium sectors.”