Jonathan Reynolds
MP for Stalybridge and Hyde · Labour (Co-op) · United Kingdom
“I thank my hon. Friend for her engagement, her support and her advocacy on behalf of her constituents. This has been and is a difficult situation for them, and it is exactly because of our commitment that we are seeking to resolve things in a favourable way.”
“I welcome the support from the hon. Gentleman for the decisive action we are taking. On his point about potentially combining British Steel and, if it were acquired in the public interest, Speciality Steel UK, I urge caution in that regard.”
“I think it important to point out that there are costs either way: there are costs involved in running the business in public ownership, and there would also be costs to the state from the remediation and regeneration, partly because of the legacy of public ownership but also because such big steel industrial sites come with so many issue…”
“I am grateful to my hon. Friend for her advocacy on behalf of her constituents. She and I have discussed the matter several times. For colleagues who are less aware of the issue, Dalzell is a separate legal entity and company from Speciality Steel and thus separate from the full plans that we are talking about.”
“The process to date has in effect been working with potential private sector bidders on the viability of their plans. That task is entirely different from what we can do now, which is essentially to assess whether there is a viable future for this business under public acquisition.”
“Of course, CBAMs are fundamentally about trying to maintain fair competition between carbon-intensive sectors in developed countries such as ours and the rest of the world, so there is a little bit of incoherence there, to say the least.”
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“The frustration that comes across in the hon. Lady’s question relates to exactly the sort of problem the Government are fixing. I would be more than happy to work with her and any Secretary of State or Department necessary to unblock that for her.”
“On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. It has come to my attention that in a speech that I gave on 28 April 2014, recorded in column 614 of Hansard, on the subject of high-speed rail, I made a reference to my experience of using our local transport system in Greater Manchester when “I worked as a solicitor in Manchester city centre.” —[ Official Report , 28 April 2014; Vol. 579, c. 614.] I should have made it clear that, specifically, that was a reference to being at the time a trainee solicitor. This was an inadvertent error and, although the speech was over a decade ago, as it has been brought to my attention, I would like to formally correct the record, and I seek your advice on doing so.”
“I hope that all workers in all four yards are now able to enjoy this Christmas with their families, as they should. I commend this statement to the House.”
“Those projects have already brought significant recapitalisation investment to shipyards throughout the UK, and there are further procurements to be won, ranging from Border Force and local councils to marine in-port service vessels at His Majesty’s naval bases. The Government are absolutely committed to supporting vibrant, growing and successful shipbuilding and fabrication industries across the country, and I pay tribute to the skilled, diligent workforces who have made these industries what they are today. Thanks to the deal that has been announced, workers in Belfast, Arnish, Methil, Appledore and right across the country can be confident that the Government are squarely behind them, that UK ship- building is secure, and that together, as a United Kingdom, we will lead the sector into a better future.”
“We recognise how important it is, as a vital pillar of our civil and defence industrial base. That is why my Department, together with the Ministry of Defence and the National Shipbuilding Office, is doing everything that we can to bolster our world-class shipbuilding industry. That includes the significant progress that we are making on key procurement programmes. We have a major contract with BAE Systems, which has increased the order from three to eight Type 26 anti-submarine warfare frigates on the Clyde, and a contract with Babcock for five Type 31 general purpose frigates at Rosyth.”
“It provides the best opportunity to sustain our essential sovereign shipbuilding capacity and capability, now and over the long term. Defence is at the heart of the industrial strategy that we have identified. Defence is one of our eight growth-driving sectors of the UK economy. That industrial strategy is unreservedly and unashamedly pro-business, engaging on complex issues that are currently barriers to growth and investment. National security is one of the foundations of our plan for change. Without it, we cannot deliver on our milestones to raise living standards across the UK, with good, skilled, productive jobs like those at Harland & Wolff. UK shipbuilding alone supports some 42,500 jobs nationwide and adds £2.4 billion to the economy every single year.”
“It is also worth saying that FSS is a vital component of the UK carrier strike capability, providing munitions, spares and stores. At a time when strategic alignment with our NATO allies is more critical than ever, the Government fully endorse this deal, which will also see Navantia UK invest significantly on commercial terms in Harland & Wolff shipyards. Anyone familiar with Navantia UK will know that the firm boasts strong expertise in naval shipbuilding. I am pleased that, thanks to this agreement, it will continue to bring the next generation of technology to its operations here in the UK. This is quite simply a good deal for the Harland & Wolff shipyards, a good deal for its employees, and a good deal for British shipbuilding.”
“I was dismayed that when I did so Conservative Members opposed that, knowing as they did that with a guarantee or loan there stood a significant risk of losing an eye-watering amount of taxpayers’ money. That was deeply irresponsible. Crucially, the deal that has been agreed will secure the delivery of the fleet solid support contract of the Ministry of Defence. The Government have worked closely with Navantia UK on the future of the FSS programme. We have agreed the absolute minimum of changes to the contract to ensure its continued delivery. Navantia UK is the prime contractor of the Team Resolute consortium, which is charged with building three logistics support vessels for the Royal Navy, and it will maintain the required portion of UK-only build as part of this deal.”
“As the previous Government had open-book arrangements with the company, it was clear that the firm had significant and unsustainable debts. Members will be aware that, at that point, Harland & Wolff was seeking a Government guarantee or liquidity loan. Had that occurred, the British taxpayer would have been put at significant risk of losing millions of pounds, without the safeguarding of any yards, jobs or ships. I believe that the possibility of the Government providing such a guarantee or loan, which was much speculated on in the press, was preventing a market-based solution. The former Government’s inability to make a decision left the yards and the workforce in limbo. That is why I made it clear in my first weeks in this job that no taxpayer guarantee or loan would be provided.”
“This industry-led deal, which we expect to complete shortly, will secure all four of Harland & Wolff’s shipyards, protecting around 1,000 jobs right across the UK. I hope that this announcement will come as some relief to Harland & Wolff’s employees. I realise that this has been a deeply worrying time for them, and for everyone affected by the continued speculation over the firm’s future. I welcome Navantia UK’s intention to work closely with the relevant unions to protect workers’ existing terms and conditions. That is important for the hard-working employees and communities who have served the firm over many years. I was first informed that Harland & Wolff was in serious financial difficulty on day one of the new Government.”
“With your permission, Madam Deputy Speaker, I shall make a statement on the UK shipbuilding firm Harland & Wolff. I am pleased to inform the House that, subject to approvals, a commercial deal has been reached that will protect jobs, drive investment and secure the future of the workforce. The deal will see Navantia UK, a specialist in shipbuilding, purchase all of Harland & Wolff’s shipyards. As right hon. and hon. Members will know, Harland & Wolff is a major employer in Belfast, with additional important yards at Arnish and Methil in Scotland and Appledore in Devon. For more than 150 years, the firm has built famous vessels for notable shipping organisations and companies, including the Royal Navy, the Royal Mail and the White Star Line.”
“The biggest assurance I can give is that we only ever hit that 2.5% under Labour Governments. The fact is that we have a Labour Government with that commitment to the defence sector and its role—the ability to deliver maximum economic benefits for the UK, as well as that vibrant and important defence role—and we will continue to deliver on the way to that.”
“Despite the fact that we will always respect those arrangements, we are the UK Government and we make decisions for every part of the UK, with the regulatory approvals, and I seek no one’s permission to be the Secretary of State for Business and Trade across all the UK. On additional work packages, there are no additional promises from the Government, although he will know that there is a 30-year supply pipeline for shipbuilding in the UK and many opportunities, particularly in sectors such as energy, maintenance and fabrication, and a whole range of functions where Members across the House would want to have a strong, diverse and competitive shipbuilding and maintenance sector. Finally, on defence spending, the hon. Gentleman had a bit of a try-on. He asked what assurances the sector can have.”
“On the delivery of the fleet solid support contract, the issues that the previous Government left us may have some material impact, although there is no large, foreseen delay to the delivery of the project at this stage. On the support to the business, there is no support going directly from Government to the business to subsidise the transaction. There have been amendments to the contracts supported by my Department and the Ministry of Defence. He asked for the details. I will not reveal it in the House because of the commercial sensitivity, but I will find out whether there is a way to share that with him. On whether the deal is compliant with the Windsor framework and our commitments as a country under those arrangements, I am satisfied with all that.”
“I agree with the shadow Secretary of State on the iconic nature of this business; its role in British history and in the community, particularly in Belfast; and the esteem in which it is held. I do feel he could have thanked us for cleaning up another mess that the previous Government left us, although perhaps that is too much to ask. After all, they could have made the decisions to allow the market-based solution with support from Government that we have been able to achieve. Despite those caveats, I welcome the fact that he welcomed the news and recognised it as a substantial good news story for many workers as we go into Christmas and for the next years. I turn to the hon. Gentleman’s specific questions.”
“We therefore have a chance not just for new investment coming into those yards, but for the long-term future to be secured for a pipeline of work and energy and defence contracts, which is a vibrant and successful opportunity for the future.”
“That was why it was so important to make that decision early on to secure this far better outcome. On the specific question, and I should have directed my answer to the shadow Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Arundel and South Downs (Andrew Griffith), there is no change to the UK-based content of the contract. As I said in the statement, there have been some changes on commercial terms, although they are relatively minor based on the overall value of the contract. On the future, I can tell the right hon. Member for Birmingham Hodge Hill and Solihull North (Liam Byrne) that the deal we have brokered guarantees not only all four yards, but the jobs in the Belfast yard for three years and jobs in the three other yards for two years.”
“I thank the Select Committee Chair for his kind words. I am delighted that we have been able to secure this future for Harland & Wolff. His assessment is right that the largest creditor to Harland & Wolff when we took office was Riverstone, a significant US hedge fund. He is right to say that had we gone ahead with that Government guarantee or loan, there would likely have been no real return to the taxpayer—no guarantee of jobs, shipyards or ships being built. That money would have gone to the creditors. Actually, in the commercial market-based solution that we have been able to broker, all creditors have behaved responsibly, but, understandably, if anyone thinks the Government will come along and give them free money, they will hold out for that option.”
“I am extremely grateful to be able to deliver that outcome for the hon. Gentleman’s constituents as a result of the announcement. He is right to say that successful UK Government policy must be about more than one-off solutions to specific problems such as this. That is why we have adopted an ambitious industrial strategy that covers key sectors of the economy and delivers exactly what he has asked for: consistency, long termism, and policy that covers every aspect of government rather than being seen as led by one Department. When we get it right, good long-term and effective public policy—working hand in hand with the private sector—delivers tremendous outcomes for the country, and that is what we are seeking. Ultimately, any strategy is only as good as its delivery, and this statement is evidence that the Government will deliver.”
“I am grateful to my hon. Friend for her expertise and insight on this matter. I understand the point that she makes, but it is perhaps one for my colleagues in the Ministry of Defence. I will ask them to engage with her on those ambitions to remedy the absence of capability, but I believe that that would be challenging.”
“A whole range of horizontal policies, particularly on energy prices, would have to be in a corresponding position for us to do that. The fact that the UK has such a small steel sector relative to the size of our economy makes us an outlier among developed nations and suggests that there is a real evidence base for improving it, and I will work with any Member of the House to deliver that.”
“I very much share the right hon. Gentleman’s aspirations. He will know that most defence steels are higher end—they are specialised and tend to come from electric arc furnaces—and one challenge that we have inherited relates to the two remaining blast furnace sites in the UK. We have improved the situation in Port Talbot, but we could not change direction, with the blast furnaces going offline before the arc furnace was installed. We have inherited an even more challenging position in relation to Scunthorpe, but we are working closely with the company to find a solution. I believe that we are missing real capabilities in the UK. I can see the economic and business case for plate mill, for instance, and for the long-term question of direct reduced iron in steel production. The steel strategy is part of delivering on that.”
“I agree with him about the huge potential out there not just for shipbuilding, fabrication and maintenance, but for energy in particular. There is real optimism for the future, but it requires the kinds of foundations that we have put in place through this agreement.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for all his support and repeated submissions to the Department. I know how significant this matter is for his community, and he has fulfilled his role as a Member of Parliament in articulating it at every level of Government. I say the same for our hon. Friend the Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Torcuil Crichton)—I visited the Arnish shipyard during the election campaign. It is so important in a job such as mine, and in a Department such as mine, to recognise that we must deliver for the whole United Kingdom. The diverse challenges we face do not detract from the fact that we must deliver for every part of the UK, and that is what we plan to do. I also thank my hon. Friend for his comments about my officials, who worked very hard to deliver this outcome.”
“There are issues with small and medium-sized enterprises in the defence sector struggling to access bank accounts—not through a prohibition on defence, but perhaps because of a lack of understanding about such commercial contracts being different from those in other parts of the economy. There are a whole range of issues that we must get right, but I think that, in the main, Members across the House share his aspirations and objectives. He has been a voice of expertise and authority on these issues throughout my time in Parliament, and I am grateful for his engagement on them.”
“Absolutely, Madam Deputy Speaker. I very much welcome the question and would like to put on the record that I have only good things to say about His Majesty’s Treasury at all times. [ Laughter. ] It is true; I mean that. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to say that there is great imperative—with a particular degree of responsibility in the defence part of the industrial strategy—in the challenges we face. It is imperative not just that we work closely with colleagues in the Ministry of Defence on procurement issues and Government-to-Government sales, in which my Department plays a major role, but that we address wider regulatory issues. As the hon. Gentleman may know, the Department recently did work on environmental, social and governance criteria to ensure that they do not prevent investment into defence companies.”
“Sometimes I feel that the wider British public perhaps do not understand the number of jobs or the economic benefit that come from such a sector, so it is always good to make that case from the Dispatch Box—as my hon. Friend does every day from the Back Benches.”
“I recognise the role that shipbuilding has played in my hon. Friend’s city. I grew up in Sunderland —part of what was once one of the major civil shipbuilding locations in the world—and I recognise the identity and pride that comes with that industrial heritage. In many cases, people feel that it is something of the past, but in this statement we are stressing exactly what she said about the contemporary contribution and the opportunities for the future, about which we should be excited. There are a whole range of increasing needs to shipbuilding expertise, particularly in the energy sector—offshore wind, for example, creates a range of demand for different types of maintenance and supply vessels—so this should be an optimistic story for the future.”
“In terms of wider UK Government policy, this has been a great endorsement of our EU reset and our willingness not to revisit the arguments of Brexit, but to work more closely with friends and allies in Europe, to ensure that we are getting the maximum opportunities for the UK and always working in our national interest.”
“No, it was not—it is a good try, but no. First, the employment rights framework in most parts of continental Europe is very different from our own. Secondly, as I have repeatedly said, the changes in the Employment Rights Bill do raise terms and conditions for some of the lowest-paid workers in the country, but many companies in the UK—particularly larger ones—already operate to a significantly higher level. Shipbuilding is historically a fairly unionised sector, so I do not think there are any concerns or worries in that field—to be frank, the trade unions in that sector often fought harder for the industry than former Conservative Governments. I understand the try-on point that the hon. Gentleman is making, but no, the Employment Rights Bill has not been a problem.”
“This week, we had our first meeting of the Industrial Strategy Advisory Council, with some tremendous representatives with expertise across the board—UK industry, academics and business figures. It is an incredibly exciting time. This is just one component of our growth mission, but clearly an important one, alongside areas of work for me such as the small business plan that we are putting together. I genuinely believe that everyone should be excited about the future.”
“I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his comments on the deal and for his observations about the questions from the Opposition Front-Bench spokesman about the 2.5% target. On the modern industrial strategy that we are creating, we have had an incredible response to our Green Paper—some 22,000 individual answers to the questions it asked—showing that there is a huge appetite from industry across the board, both in the UK and abroad, to engage with what the Government are seeking to do. Again, I stress that that should always be on a cross-party basis; there is nothing in that Green Paper that anyone of any political stripe should be able to oppose. It is based on our national interest and the goal of being more competitive and business-friendly, succeeding to a greater degree on the world stage.”
“I am sorry if the hon. Lady missed it, but I was clear that what we have announced today does not change the provisions in the original contract agreed by the former Conservative Government. What has changed is that we have saved all four of these yards, at a time when we could have lost them all through the inability of the previous Government to take the action required, so it is an incredibly positive story. We have saved the position of those yards and guaranteed those jobs, and not for months but for years to come.”
“The guarantee is for 90% of the overall job numbers, simply to provide the usual degree of flexibility in running that business, but that guarantee covers the majority of the workforce and keeps them in place. The deal also comes with investment in those Scottish yards, so whatever the future holds, those yards will be even more competitive and more able to bid for the kinds of contracts that will secure the long-term prosperity we are all seeking. I am always genuinely willing to work with colleagues across any part of the UK to secure the kind of outcome we have achieved today, and I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for recognising that.”
“I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his observations and questions. It was really important to us that we keep all four yards together—there had been an assessment that, for understandable reasons, the Belfast yard was more commercially valuable, so there was a real chance that any unstructured rescue package could have lost the two Scottish yards. There were question marks about those yards in particular, so keeping the business together and protecting the future of those workers was hugely important to us, and I am delighted that we have been able to achieve that. The job guarantees for the non-Belfast yards will last for two years.”
“I also think that a little bit of competitive diversification in the military shipbuilding sector’s supply chain is welcome, creating better value for money in procurement. Across the board, this is a positive story for Harland & Wolff and its employees, but as the hon. Gentleman has described, it is also a positive story for UK shipbuilding.”
“I share the hon. Gentleman’s aspirations and recognise his calls for UK shipbuilding to have a higher priority in future than it has in the past. To be specific on what I was saying in the statement, there has been a revision to the value of the fleet solid support contract; it has required a little bit of additional support—but not greatly and on commercial terms—in order to deliver it. There are not promises of additional work packages on top of the contractual agreements made by the previous Government, but because Navantia UK is such a world-renowned expert builder of shipping of all sizes, as well as the investment that comes with this deal and the more competitive nature of the yards in future, there are genuine grounds for optimism. I see real opportunities in fabrication and maintenance, but particularly in energy.”
“We have seen that in lots of sectors—maybe not to the degree we have needed in shipbuilding, but let us look at that for the future and approach the next year with some real positivity.”
“It is great news that he is going to the yard today; my colleagues the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and the Minister for Industry are also in Belfast today, and I understand that the Secretary of State for Scotland will be at one of the yards in Scotland too. On the hon. Gentleman’s point about innovation and research and development, that is the basis on which we have to compete. Whether in the sectors of aerospace, automotive or shipbuilding, what we need is high-end, sophisticated R&D, innovation and world-leading products. That is what we have in many of our advanced manufacturing sectors, but it is such a competitive world that we have to maintain that edge. In particular, R&D is an area where core support and core funding between Government and industry has real benefits.”
“I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for asking what I think will be my last question of the year. I would particularly like to recognise what he said about his colleague, the right hon. Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson). Obviously, he has a constituency interest and a leading role in Northern Ireland, and I think he understood the decisions we had to make. We had to explain in confidence to all colleagues affected why the initial decision on the guarantee alone was not the right way forward, but that we were committed to the kind of solution we have announced today. I am extremely grateful for being able to work with the right hon. Gentleman on that.”
“The Government were forced to make difficult choices in the Budget, but the fundamentals of doing business in the UK remain strong. The Government’s agenda of creating an industrial strategy, getting people back to work, reforming our planning system, rebuilding our relationship with the EU, pensions reform and more, is entirely focused on improving the long-term business environment across the UK.”
“The reason this Government will succeed on growth and business investment in a way that the previous Government did not has to do with the fundamentals: the return to political stability in the UK; an openness to the rest of the world, including the EU—a difficult subject for Conservative Members, I know—which is still our major trading partner; and the willingness of this Government to use their mandate to improve the business and investor environment. Those fundamentals mean that the future of the UK is very promising.”
“I say that the Budget was seven weeks ago, so if the Conservative party, which did not tell us how it would pay for the promises it made when it was in government, now has a plan to pay for those promises, I would welcome receiving it in writing, or hearing it here at oral questions or in a statement. The raw reality is that the Conservative party made promises that it had no intention of keeping. We are not going to do that; we will fix the foundations and do what we say.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for raising that important matter. Given the sums of money involved, I can understand why that is a substantial issue for businesses in her constituency. It relates to the duties that were charged at a time of significant political uncertainty. This is a Treasury issue relating to taxation, but I promise we will get her the meeting she needs, and work with her to ensure that she gets the answers she requests for her constituents.”
“Whether it is the response to the Chancellor’s speech at Mansion House or finally sorting out Marks & Spencer this week, this Government are getting on with the job and looking to the future.”
“Well, what can I say? Was it the Conservative party that increased corporation tax from 19% to 25% in one Budget, and that crashed business investment and confidence because of the way it mishandled Brexit, failing to prepare for either outcome of a yes/no referendum? And which Opposition Front Benchers played a role in the mini-Budget? Frankly, it was all of them. With respect to the hon. Gentleman, I will not take advice from him. Since the Budget, I have heard repeatedly from Conservative colleagues that they want to lower taxes and increase spending, even though they cannot account for the promises that they made when in government. That is not credible unless they engage with reality, as this Government are doing.”
“I reject the claim that certain industries require a supply of labour from jobs that do not give people the security and dignity that they need. This is a set of proportionate, reasonable reforms that will make a difference—”
“If the hon. Gentleman googles that statistic, he will find that it is not actually true, but I appreciate that it is demanding being in opposition, and that there may not always be the capacity and resources required. As we heard on the excellent Second Reading of that legislation, the vast majority of employers in the UK already operate to a higher standard than the level to which the floor is being raised in the Employment Rights Bill. I do not in any way pull back from saying that some of the most vulnerable, insecure and low paid members of our society will benefit from the Bill; that is exactly what it is about. Those people may have given up on politics or think that the mainstream political system will not deliver for them.”
“Small businesses are the beating heart of our high streets and communities, and are essential to our economic success. That is why, on Small Business Saturday, I announced the business growth service, which will ensure that businesses across the UK get quicker and easier support and advice from Government. Further announcements include the disability finance code for entrepreneurship to improve access to capital and tackle inequality for disabled entrepreneurs. A new fair payment code was launched by the Office of the Small Business Commissioner to help address late payments. Next year, as my hon. Friend has said, the small business strategy will be published to create thriving high streets, easier access to finance, open overseas and domestic markets and enhanced business capability.”
“I very much welcome my hon. Friend’s question. My area on the eastern side of Greater Manchester has, like hers, a huge history of co-operatives and mutuals. The diversity in business models that they bring is a huge strength; they bring different things to the market and different ways of doing business. The resilience in co-operative models is particularly attractive. I can assure her that they form part of the Government’s wider strategy. Our ambition is to double mutuals’ size in the economy. The Under-Secretary of State for Business and Trade, my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow West (Gareth Thomas), the small business Minister, is leading on that work, and I would love my hon. Friend and businesses from her area to be involved in it.”