← LEADERSHIP TERMINAL

UK PARLIAMENT · SITTING

Nick Thomas-Symonds

MP for Torfaen · Labour · United Kingdom

IN THEIR OWN WORDS

“Only on Friday, I spoke to a constituent who gave notice of retirement in March and still has not had his pensions quote. I commend the Minister very much on the very hard work she put in over the summer, after the actions I took and the statement that I made to the House in July.”

House of Commons26 October 2026Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

“The hon. Gentleman speaks powerfully on behalf of his constituents in Scotland; I have had many emails on this issue from my constituents in Wales. Does he agree that when it comes to testing, all men are at high risk? It should happen not just in England but all around the United Kingdom.”

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“I agree entirely with my hon. Friend. Wildfire prevention requirements and broader environmental policy need to be aligned, but this is what the South Wales fire and rescue service said to me: “The scale, concurrency and duration of the response provide a strong evidence base for reviewing specialist wildfire assets, command capacity, log…”

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“From 18 August, the fire was contained with tactical burns, firebreaks and the use of a helicopter, but the ground continued to smoulder until there was significant rainfall at the end of August. Frankly, the impact has been devastating.”

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“The North York Moors national park authority was awarded up to £3.2 million to recover from the devastating peat fires of 2025, through the nature for climate peatland grant scheme. The equivalent scheme in Wales is a lot smaller at the moment.”

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“It is great that the Welsh wildfire summit is being held on 22 October, but the point has been put to me that, at the moment, we have only one representative from Blaenavon who can attend.”

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The complete record

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  1. “The hon. Gentleman speaks powerfully on behalf of his constituents in Scotland; I have had many emails on this issue from my constituents in Wales. Does he agree that when it comes to testing, all men are at high risk? It should happen not just in England but all around the United Kingdom.”

    House of Commons26 October 2026Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

  2. “Only on Friday, I spoke to a constituent who gave notice of retirement in March and still has not had his pensions quote. I commend the Minister very much on the very hard work she put in over the summer, after the actions I took and the statement that I made to the House in July. Looking to the future of the scheme, can she assure me that she will direct officials to do the preparatory work to make sure that the different insourcing options are viable ones that we can put to the House?”

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  3. “Dŵr Cymru Welsh Water said that damage to apparently remote land can affect drinking water, wildlife and communities beyond the immediate fire area. Twenty-one locations have been identified as needing immediate drainage improvements, and that needs to be done before ground stability work can be completed. On 14 August, South Wales fire and rescue service said that selected appliances recorded 296 mobilisations and well over 10,000 cumulative incident hours, and officers recorded 99 mobilisations and over 500 incident hours. At its height, the South Wales fire and rescue service was responding to 14 concurrent wildfires. Between 11 August and 1 September, it publicly reported 961 grass fires, including 115 wildfires and 26 category 3 wildfires, which shows the pressure on the fire service.”

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  4. “From 18 August, the fire was contained with tactical burns, firebreaks and the use of a helicopter, but the ground continued to smoulder until there was significant rainfall at the end of August. Frankly, the impact has been devastating. Data from the Copernicus fire emissions watch analysed by Save the Children revealed that Torfaen had the fourth highest intensity of carbon emissions per square kilometre in the world in July 2026. The smoke travelled as far as Cardiff in one direction and Gloucestershire in the other. It affected between 220 and 270 hectares of common land. Pasture, vegetation and peat were burned, with some areas likely to be damaged for years to come. I spoke to farmers who had livestock losses, disrupted water supplies, fencing damage, grazing management issues and loss of earnings.”

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  5. “I beg to move, That this House has considered UK-Welsh Government co-operation on tackling wildfires. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship for the first time, Mr Turner. This debate follows what has been an incredibly difficult summer for many people in my constituency. The wildfire began on the evening of 19 July, and it reignited on 10 August when it jumped a firebreak and travelled into a forestry, which put houses at risk. On 11 August, the South Wales fire and rescue service declared a major incident due to significant pressure on resources. On 13 August, a military aid to the civil authorities request was submitted by the South Wales fire and rescue service, and I commend the Secretary of State for Wales for agreeing to that request very swiftly.”

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  6. “I say first and foremost, as I thank all those on the frontline, that we have to learn the lessons of this summer. I am afraid such fires will become more frequent, and putting in place a proper, structured response for next summer will be crucial. “Fire and Rescue National Framework for Wales 2026” identifies climate change as likely to increase the incidence and severity of weather-related events, and it highlights the possibility of wildfire risk shifting or extending.”

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  7. “The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right about learning from best practice across the United Kingdom. I pay tribute to the firefighters of the South Wales fire and rescue service and the 22 other fire services around the country who came to Blaenavon’s aid in the summer. I also thank Torfaen county borough council, Natural Resources Wales, Gwent police and the 110 military personnel who helped to combat the wildfires. I also recognise those from the Blorenge Commoners Association, local farmers, businesses and constituents who rallied together over the summer to tackle this devastating event. I also thank the Wales Office Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff North (Anna McMorrin), for visiting Torfaen recently and listening to the concerns of local people.”

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  8. “When the Minister winds up the debate, I hope she can commit to co-ordinating on a regular basis with the Welsh Government, to MPs with affected constituencies being able to attend the summit, and to making sure that those on the frontline who have been affected have their voices heard.”

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  9. “The North York Moors national park authority was awarded up to £3.2 million to recover from the devastating peat fires of 2025, through the nature for climate peatland grant scheme. The equivalent scheme in Wales is a lot smaller at the moment. It can award only about £10,000 to £250,000, so I urge the Welsh Government, in the first instance, to provide specific additional funding for the situation in Torfaen. Ministers in Cardiff Bay should look at how the money for the North York Moors national park authority was calculated, and provide fair funding for the peat fires that we have suffered in Torfaen. I know that the UK Government are holding a wildfire summit to look at all the issues and, as the Minister would expect, I will be pressing the UK Government to provide appropriate support as well.”

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  10. “Of course there will be distinctions, but the point, which has been made a couple of times now, about learning from best practice across the UK is absolutely crucial. In advance of today’s debate, I also spoke to the South Wales fire and rescue service, which said that “we need a sustainable approach to specialist capability and surge funding, together with stronger land-management and cross-government planning.” The case I want to make today is about restoration, renewal and resilience. That extra support is needed very badly by my local community. I thank, first of all, Torfaen county borough council, which has already provided £50,000. We now need others to step up as well, and I will give one example.”

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  11. “She asks the Welsh Government in particular to “work alongside land managers to develop a dedicated Welsh Wildfire Strategy, provide meaningful post-fire recovery support, review fuel-load management policies, strengthen emergency response capability, and formally recognise commoners and graziers as operational partners in both wildfire prevention and emergency response”. Indeed, co-operation—that word is in the motion—between the UK Government and the Welsh Government to equalise access to substantial recovery funding and resources is very important. At the moment, there are indeed disparities. To give an example, the permitted burning season in Wales is two weeks shorter than in England.”

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  12. “I am certainly keen to have very substantial results from both this debate and the summit. The right hon. Lady is absolutely right to highlight the importance of that support and its availability across the United Kingdom. In putting my speech together, I was assisted by local people. If I may, I will briefly quote some of them, because I think this is important. Anthony Watkins says: “Unlike in the North of England and Scotland, the Fire and Rescue Services in Wales have less experience of tackling wildfires in large areas of peatland. Coordinating training with experienced firefighters in England and Scotland would provide invaluable expertise to the Welsh Services”. Sara Warman argues for a new approach to land management.”

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  13. “That could be in the form of managing the land with wildfire prevention in mind; community training; the purchasing of wildfire-specific resources; aerial support to predict and prevent wildfires; or, frankly, up-to-date personal protective equipment for our firefighters, which is absolutely crucial.”

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  14. “My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and I could not agree with her more. On the voice of local people being heard, this is again Sara Warman from my constituency: “Wales needs a new approach. One that combines science with practical experience. One that recognises that every common is different. One that treats local land managers as partners, not obstacles. Unless these policies change, we risk creating greater fuel loads, more frequent wildfires, and escalating environmental and economic damage across the Welsh uplands.” We need to build that resilience, and action is needed to help prepare the common and other areas across Wales for the sad reality that this may happen again.”

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  15. “I look forward to contributing to the debate in the weeks and months ahead, but let us make absolutely sure that it is a conversation with an end point and a set of conclusions that we then implement so that we are in a position to have a systematic approach next summer, with the Governments across the UK working together.”

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  16. “I am sad to say that, given climate change, we are likely to see more of these wildfires, as we have seen in continental Europe and other areas. We need to look first at prevention, as we want to do all we can to stop these things happening in the first place. We then need to look at management. While people in my constituency did a remarkable job, doing their best throughout the summer, it was obvious that there was not the original plan in place that is needed to deal with the multiplicity of agencies that are involved. I know the Minister well, and I know she is very committed to the conversation that we need to have.”

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  17. “It is great that the Welsh wildfire summit is being held on 22 October, but the point has been put to me that, at the moment, we have only one representative from Blaenavon who can attend. They put a simple question to me: is it expected that two hours is a sufficient amount of time to solve the accumulation of failings for the people of Torfaen? I wonder whether, in putting together the programme for that day, the Welsh Government might be able to ensure that people’s voices are given sufficient time to be properly heard and considered. I want to give the Minister plenty of time to respond, but today has to be the start of a wider conversation that has to happen pretty urgently. The lessons that we need to learn from this summer have to be learned so that our plan is in place before next summer.”

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  18. “I agree entirely with my hon. Friend. Wildfire prevention requirements and broader environmental policy need to be aligned, but this is what the South Wales fire and rescue service said to me: “The scale, concurrency and duration of the response provide a strong evidence base for reviewing specialist wildfire assets, command capacity, logistics, communications, fire control and resilience and the mutual-aid arrangements.” We were very lucky to have help from fire services across the country, but we have to make it systematic. We need to have a plan in place for that. All those aspects need to be considered, and the views of people and the agencies involved should be central. In answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Stourbridge (Cat Eccles), the time allotted at the summit for listening to local people is going to be hugely important.”

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  19. “The Minister is absolutely right. If we look at the wildfire management in Torfaen, the military personnel were deployed by the UK Government and the Secretary of State for Wales. Obviously, areas such as land management are devolved to the Welsh Government. The Minister is absolutely right about the number of agencies, but does she agree that we need a cross-Government plan to make sure we get that co-ordination right?”

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  20. “Talking about people on the frontline, I am sure the Minister shares my horror that our firefighters did not have the personal protective equipment that they needed. I hope she will pass on to the relevant Minister as a matter of urgency that that is one practical thing that we really need to deal with.”

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  21. “I have one final point. As I said in my speech, there is also an issue around how the UK Government calculated how much money went to the North York Moors National Park Authority for recovery from a peat fire, which is also the situation in Torfaen. Will the Minister undertake to speak to ministerial colleagues about this? I have written to ask how exactly that was calculated. I am sure that is something I could look at putting to the Welsh Government, so will the Minister undertake to secure a response for me?”

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  22. “In my negotiations with Commissioner Šefčovič, I agreed not only the re-accession of the United Kingdom to Erasmus+, but that at this year’s summit we would deliver the food and drink agreement to bear down on costs in supermarkets and an emissions trading scheme linkage meaning that hundreds of millions of pounds in carbon taxes do not need to be paid by UK businesses, as well as opportunities for young people to work, travel and study in the UK. So can I say to Prime Minister that anyone who sets their face against the deal that I hope he pushes over the line on 20 November is in favour of adding costs to businesses and households?”

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  23. “I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate. She is absolutely right that it is a timely moment. The quintet is to make a good-offices visit to Khartoum from tomorrow. Does she agree, first, that the UK Government have to continue supporting the diplomatic work of the quintet and, secondly, that the Government will continue to make a difference by sanctioning those individuals involved in facilitating this dreadful civil war?”

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  24. “My constituent Danielle lost her husband Chris in a road traffic collision in 2024. She was left studying to become a nurse with three children to care for and found the bereavement support payment system to be wholly inadequate to give her the support that she needed. Will the Leader of the House ask the relevant Minister from the Department of Work and Pensions to write to me about this matter, and may we have a debate on it, please?”

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  25. “We saw the practical benefits of the Union with the Minister’s swift action on military personnel coming to deal with the wildfires. Will he join me in paying tribute to the farmers and firefighters who dealt with those wildfires, and does he also agree that, as climate change makes them a more regular occurrence, we need a long-term plan to deal with them?”

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  26. “I congratulate the Foreign Secretary and the ministerial team, and I wish them well. In recent months I have been proud, alongside the former Prime Minister, to negotiate the UK’s participation in the EU support loan for Ukraine. Does the Foreign Secretary agree that, going forward, there should be no unnecessary delays in procurement, and that the kit and the weapons need to get to the frontline in Ukraine, where they are needed, as soon as possible?”

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  27. “In October, the House will receive a further update on the findings of the independent audit, the performance of the remedial adviser and the longer-term structural options being considered, including meeting our manifesto commitment by bringing the scheme in-house. Let me finish by saying this. Public servants who dedicated their working lives to this country deserve absolute financial security and unwavering dignity in retirement, not corporate failure, empty promises and severe administrative failure. I hope the House will see the uncompromising line in the sand that I am drawing today. I will continue to apply commercial pressure and ensure full accountability, and we will find a way forward that delivers for the people who deliver for this country. I commend this statement to the House.”

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  28. “This framework builds the exact long-term capability that we need, shifting our focus from short-term pricing to service quality and operational resilience. To ensure full accountability, we are executing our contractual right to deploy independent auditors immediately to conduct a technical review of systems, data integrity and compliance with statutory duties. We are also beginning the process to appoint a remedial adviser, at Capita’s expense, to force rectification directly on the ground. I am not ruling out further interventions, but we need to build the unvarnished evidence base that will serve as a strict prerequisite for further formal escalation, including potential litigation or step-in remedies, should performance fail to improve.”

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  29. “I say openly to the House that if I could insource this operation today, I would do so. None the less, it is Government policy to insource, in line with our manifesto commitment to deliver “the biggest wave of insourcing of public services in a generation”, and this pension scheme could be a prime candidate for insourcing in the future. That future is being actively shaped by the Government’s announcement on 17 June of a new public interest test that will end outsourcing by default. From April 2027, all contracts over £1 million in value must be assessed for in-house viability before renewal, and Departments exceeding £100 million in annual spend must develop five-year insourcing strategies.”

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  30. “I know that many Members are calling for the immediate termination of the contract and the insourcing of the service, but if I were to terminate the contract straightaway, that would clearly cause severe disruption to the payroll. I have to manage this so that the payroll is operated effectively; what I cannot do is create an immediate, catastrophic operational vacuum. I cannot replace a complex pension operation overnight. However, I have instructed my officials to bring together a broad range of stakeholders and experts to consider, in line with the Government’s strategy, how scheme members can best be served by a long-term, durable delivery of the scheme. Let no one think that I or the Government are accepting the status quo. This episode highlights the severe limitations of outsourcing the civil service pension scheme.”

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  31. “I have no doubt that all Members will agree with me that the service that Capita has provided has been dreadful. We need to take further robust measures. First, I will continue to apply the most stringent commercial levers. We are executing robust, continuous action with immediate financial consequences. We have already hit Capita’s bottom line by withholding £9.9 million in payments, because the Government will only ever pay for what is successfully delivered. I find this failure remarkable in the light of the personal assurances given to me by the chief executive ahead of the transfer. Those assurances have not been met. Core outputs are deficient, and Capita is failing even to make basic functionality work.”

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  32. “Because of Capita’s persistent failures, alongside a wider, completely unacceptable failure in its overall MP engagement, demonstrated—as was reported to me by Members from across the House—by a poorly co-ordinated MP drop-in session at the end of May, I had to intervene again. I ordered the pensions recovery taskforce to take direct operational control and establish virtual surgeries for MPs and caseworkers running every weekday. I hope that has provided at least a direct route for parliamentary offices to try to secure updates. Since I launched that initiative in May, we have delivered more than 250 virtual surgeries, supporting more than 150 Members from across the House. Let me now turn to the steps that I am taking to protect scheme members.”

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  33. “I understand that Capita resolved nearly 700 last week, but another 500 or so complaints were raised, so this remains all too current an issue. When I last reported to the House, the figure stood at 1,500. The growth of the backlog is completely unacceptable. Capita has clearly failed to manage the correspondence effectively, to the extent that I have had to ask the pensions recovery taskforce to step in. Indeed, the situation has been so faltering that the Parliamentary Secretary at the Cabinet Office, my hon. Friend the Member for Southampton Test (Satvir Kaur), has written to Mr Speaker about it.”

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  34. “Let me also say that public money will not fund Capita’s failings. We will recover every single penny of these surge costs directly from Capita, and I will not remove a single member of the team until the service is permanently fixed and fully restored. Across core areas of pension payments, quotations and complaints, the operational reality remains deeply concerning, and although the speed of quote issuance has accelerated over the past month, it still leaves more than 6,700 outstanding quotes to be processed, as of the end of June, for past retirement dates. Let me turn to the subject of parliamentary correspondence. The volume of MP complaints remains too high—there are more than 1,900 outstanding constituent cases.”

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  35. “Capita had committed to clearing the quotes backlog by today, but I am afraid that the reality remains very different. As of the end of June, there are still more than 6,700 quotations outstanding for past retirement dates, and more than 4,100 bereavement cases on which Capita could take action. These are the most harrowing stories, affecting devastated scheme members and grieving families. My officials have forcefully escalated those systemic back-office failures directly to Capita’s senior leadership, demanding an immediate investigation and resolution. I have to be frank with the House: what progress has been achieved is due to the significant additional capability provided by the Cabinet Office pensions recovery taskforce, and a team of more than 140 officials whom I have “surged” into the process.”

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  36. “In response, I intervened immediately and established the Cabinet Office pensions recovery taskforce. Capita committed to two critical recovery targets: an end of April milestone to clear the inherited arrears, and an end of June milestone by which point it promised a complete return to standard contractually required levels. Capita missed its own April milestone. The end of June deadline has arrived, and I regret to inform the House that Capita has failed to meet that milestone, too. Seven months on from taking over operations, too many pension scheme members still face unacceptable delays after years of dedicated public service. Since my last statement on this matter, thousands of quotations have been issued and pensions put into payment.”

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  37. “I want to provide the House with an important update on the administration of the civil service pension scheme. Capita was awarded this contract in November 2023. It had two years of transition to prepare, and its senior leadership gave me explicit personal assurances ahead of the handover that they were fully capable of managing the workload and that they were ready for a successful transition. Indeed, the chief executive promised that technological improvements would create a flagship use case for the largest AI-enabled pension scheme in the country. It is clear that non-delivery of technology has been a fundamental part of Capita’s inability to deliver. The reality is that it was completely unprepared and its system was overwhelmed, which resulted in a backlog that skyrocketed to a staggering 120,000 unresolved cases.”

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  38. “The interest rate applied will be based on the Bank of England base rate plus 1% for the period of the delay between retirement and payment. That information has formally been published on a civil service pension website, and members will have the opportunity to ask for other losses to be covered as part of the complaints process. As for the rest of the shadow Minister’s comments, I think he will struggle to find anyone who has been as robust as I have been in holding Capita to account.”

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  39. “I am quite astonished by the shadow Minister’s contribution. The House should be in no doubt that the previous Government signed a 10-year contract in November 2023. That is the situation we were left with, and I have been grappling with it throughout my time in office. The idea that I have put ideology above operational urgency is utter and total nonsense. I have intervened strongly at every single opportunity, and I have held Capita to account on its milestones time and again, to the tune of £9.9 million, in a way that the previous Government never did. I have a lot more sympathy with the shadow Minister on his point about compensation. We have introduced a process to pay interest in respect of pensions paid by Capita from 1 December 2025, whereby full benefits are paid more than one month after retirement.”

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  40. “My hon. Friend is absolutely right that these cases are harrowing. He is also right to say that there were huge issues—I am sure we will cover this on Wednesday—with MyCSP, the previous provider. As I have said, the previous Government decided to sign this contract in November 2023. That is not, of course, to say that I was just seeking specific reassurances last autumn; we were also looking at contingencies. I am sure that he, and indeed the hon. Member for North Dorset (Simon Hoare), will cover that in the two Committees’ joint evidence session on Wednesday.”

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  41. “Lady’s other point, which I think is a central one, I am always very conscious—contrary to what the shadow Minister says—of the operational position week to week in order to ensure that I am still driving the improvement of this pension scheme to the level it should be at.”

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  42. “To take the hon. Lady’s final point first, yes, bereavement cases are being prioritised. Capita’s current working assumption is that the remaining backlog of over 6,700 quotations for past retirement dates and the 4,100 actionable bereavement cases will be systemically cleared through the rest of July and August, and I hope this House will hold it to that timetable. More broadly, the hon. Lady is absolutely right about learning the lessons from this situation and robustly holding Capita to account. That is why, as the House will be aware, I took the decision to end, for example, its contract for the Royal Mail pension scheme. The House can be assured that I will not hesitate to take robust action. On the hon.”

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  43. “I am more than happy to take on board what my hon. Friend has said about streamlining MPs’ interaction with the service. The Parliamentary Secretary has passed on many of these points directly to Capita, and indeed has raised its behaviour directly with the Speaker’s Office. More broadly, I am more than willing to look at what my hon. Friend has said.”

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  44. “As ever, the Chair of the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee makes very sensible points. I make it very clear from this Dispatch Box that Capita certainly should not in any sense be soft-pedalling. It has specific contractual duties to which I have been holding it and to which I will continue to hold it. Aside from the commercial and money aspect of this, hugely important though that obviously is for public money, he is right to highlight the emotional impact. These people—the Liberal Democrat spokesperson talked about bereavement—are in a very vulnerable position in their lives and are seeking to access the money that they themselves paid in.”

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  45. “First, in line with the Government’s policy of looking across contracts of high value, as I set out in my statement, I think this contract is a prime candidate for outsourcing. Indeed, this Government have introduced the public interest test, which I hope will most certainly give a different dimension to procurement and a different approach to insourcing, in line with the manifesto commitment on which my hon. Friend and I campaigned.”

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  46. “I am very sorry to hear about Caroline’s case. If the hon. Member is willing to write to me directly with the details, the Parliamentary Secretary will gladly look into that case.”

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  47. “I am very sorry to hear about my hon. Friend’s constituent; it is a tragedy that she passed away only yesterday. I would be glad if she wrote to me about that particular case. The Parliamentary Secretary will look into it personally, because of the nature of what has happened. For that family, and for every other family with an interest in this scheme, we absolutely must restore the level of service that they rightly expect.”

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  48. “On the right hon. Gentleman’s first point, we will look specifically at why that was the case. It should not have taken four-and-a-half months for him to receive a reply. The Parliamentary Secretary and I will look at the correspondence to see why that has happened. Secondly, on his point about confidence in the new July and August deadlines, what is critical—this is specifically why I am now looking at a range of options—is that we must be in a position where the service is being delivered properly.”

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  49. “Yes. First of all, the interest-free loans introduced earlier in the year are important, but I know they are not suitable or the choice for every beneficiary under the scheme. Secondly, as I indicated in my answer to the shadow Minister a moment ago, compensation is also very important. I reiterate to the House that I have surged significant resources into this scheme, but I am absolutely determined that it will not be the taxpayer who picks up the bill.”

    House of Commons6 July 2026Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗

  50. “Well, quite. I am grateful to the hon. Lady, who I believe has had a few virtual surgeries. She has been in contact with my office and has a number of ongoing cases—I counted seven before I came in to deliver the statement. I think she has met the Parliamentary Secretary previously, but the Parliamentary Secretary would be more than willing to meet her again on this issue and to highlight to Capita the particular issue around Scottish divorce law.”

    House of Commons6 July 2026Contains Parliamentary information licensed under the Open Parliament Licence v3.0Source ↗