Christine Jardine
MP for Edinburgh West · Liberal Democrat · United Kingdom
“I associate myself with your comments, Mr Speaker, and those of the Secretary of State. Figures quoted today by the BBC suggest that as many as one in five young people in education may not be attending college courses regularly, so the situation may be even worse than outlined in the Milburn report.”
“I completely agree, and it did the other place no credit at all that they did that. There is something interesting and noticeable about all the experiences we have heard today. I have personal experience, which I admit influences my view. I saw my mother go through a very painful death and wished that she had had the choice.”
“I thank the hon. Member for Rochester and Strood (Lauren Edwards) for reintroducing this Bill and giving us another chance to debate the issue—although part of me regrets, as I will explain, that we have that chance.”
“That hope has been snatched away from them—and not by us. We fulfilled our responsibility to the electorate. We spent hundreds of hours in Committee, in private discussions, in debates and on Report, going over this Bill in minute detail until we could, with confidence, send to the other place the best Bill we thought possible.”
“I do, but they are each one individual, and each of the professional organisations is neutral, and believe me, I envy them on that. We have the responsibility to make the decision. The majority of us have already said that this is the best Bill we can produce.”
“I apologise for the earlier slip, Madam Deputy Speaker. May I echo the comments about the fantastic job done safeguarding the British public by the staff at NATS? Just recently, I visited air traffic control in our control tower at Edinburgh airport, and I saw at first hand the amount of work that goes into keeping the public safe.”
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“Earlier this year, a constituent of mine in Edinburgh West contacted me about the delay she had faced in getting the pension credit she was entitled to. She applied in September last year and was told that she would receive it in November, but it was March before she got her pension credit awarded. The delay meant that she went without extra support just when she lost her winter fuel allowance, so what steps will the Minister take to cut those delays and stop more vulnerable pensioners from being left cold this winter?”
“I welcome the Home Secretary’s confirmation in her statement of the expedited visas for students, particularly those from Gaza. I wrote to both the Home Secretary and the Foreign Secretary this summer to appeal for exactly this move, and I know how welcome it will be to those students. The Home Secretary talks about a capped work scheme. We talk a lot about the pressure on local authorities and the cost to the taxpayer. Does she not agree that if we gave asylum seekers the right to work, pay national insurance and tax and contribute, they would then be carrying their own burden, and they would no longer be a weight on the taxpayer?”
“I hope the Minister will join me in thanking all the hard-working hospitality staff who are about to have a very busy summer, particularly in Edinburgh West, where they are about to be immersed in the Edinburgh international festival, to which the Minister and the Secretary of State—all the Ministers, in fact—are, of course, invited. We are very hospitable in Edinburgh. The hospitality industry is worth £198 million to my constituency, but businesses are suffering because of the national insurance changes, and in Scotland we will not benefit from business rates reform. With the national insurance changes and the impacts of Brexit and covid, it is a very uncertain time. What else will the Minister do to help businesses across Scotland that will not have the benefit of business rates reform?”
“I very much welcome what is in the Government’s policy, particularly votes for 16 and 17-year-olds. We already have this in Scotland for the Scottish parliamentary elections and I have also campaigned for the change to be made for general elections. Will the Minister confirm that this will be in place in time for the next general election, and how the information will be passed out to 16 and 17-year-olds that they will now be able to vote in general elections?”
“I was pleased to see funding for a number of transport projects in Wales in the spending review, not least because my city of Edinburgh is now linked directly by rail to the Secretary of State’s city of Cardiff. Lumo, which runs services in Scotland through open access, is hoping to begin a service through south Wales. Does the Minister agree with me that the spending review presents a fantastic opportunity for such projects, which create jobs, strengthen the Union and boost the UK’s economy?”
“I welcome the Government’s change in course, because the previous hard deadline would have left many people, including people in my constituency of Edinburgh West, vulnerable and, indeed, unaware that there was any need to change their meter, but there is still a big problem in Scotland, as 100,000 people are still waiting on meters, and may be unaware of this issue. On engaging with the community, will the Minister please tell us what she is doing in Scotland to ensure that rural communities are approached about this, and vulnerable people get protection?”
“I welcome these important first steps announced by the Home Secretary, as well as her commitment to working with wider European partners, but what safeguards have been put in place to ensure that international law is respected and that the rights of genuine asylum seekers are protected?”
“A number of semi-rural and suburban communities across my constituency—Newbridge, Blackhall, Ratho—have lost their post offices recently. Their banks have also gone, so there is a dearth of local facilities. At the same time, the Horizon scandal has undermined public trust across those communities. Does the Minister agree that one of the main problems in protecting the Post Office and making it sustainable will be that lack of public trust? How will he overcome it?”
“Like the Secretary of State, I welcome the great news for Ferguson Marine this morning. As he knows, Scottish Liberal Democrats secured funding for key projects across Scotland in last year’s Scottish budget negotiations, including the Eye Pavilion in Edinburgh, which is so important for my constituents and his. We welcome the additional funding as part of the spending review to help projects such as that, but almost two decades of SNP mismanagement have left our health service in dire need of investment and improvement. Does he agree that the SNP should invest this funding wisely in GPs, dentists and care so that our constituents can see the same focus on innovation in health that was announced by the UK Government last week?”
“I welcome the Minister’s statement, as well as the fact that there will be more information, not just mobile phone alerts, because those alerts do not work evenly, even in urban areas such as my constituency—there is often some delay with some phones. One of the questions that has arisen from the tragedy in Texas is whether mobile phone alerts are enough. People may not be near a phone, or they may be in a remote area, so have the Government given any thought to more old-fashioned ways—perhaps sirens, or some other way—of alerting the public when there is an emergency?”
“A constituent who I have been representing for two years was unfairly dismissed as a result of the Horizon scandal. I appreciate the effort that the Minister and his predecessor have put into this matter. The report makes it absolutely clear that the compensation system is too cumbersome and complicated for many people, and the Government have said that they will do everything they can to speed it up, but some people are waiting not only for compensation but for recognition of the injustice that was done to them. What will the Minister do to reassure those people and work on their behalf to get them the recognition that will lead to compensation?”
“It might seem odd that I, as a Scot, want to intrude in this debate, but the health of English football is valuable to us in Scotland as well. Does my hon. Friend agree that if football is to continue on the current scale, it needs another generation to see it, to love it and to want to take part in it. The only really successful way of doing that is to make it free to air to every household in this country at some point every week.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for introducing this Bill, which I know means a lot to the great number of my constituents who have contacted me. They are particularly concerned about the conditions that puppies are smuggled in, but also that many animals coming into this country illegally bring conditions that we have eradicated here, or have cropped ears and tails. They are very keen to see my hon. Friend’s Bill pass, but can he assure us that more can be done in future to make sure, in particular, that we stamp out those illnesses?”
“First, I must confess that I am feeling increasingly guilty for not having mentioned my cockapoo, Brora, since everybody else is mentioning their pet. She has been a social media star—she posed in a Scotland football strip just before the last championship. The hon. Gentleman makes a good point about people not being aware and needing reassurance. When we bought Brora five years ago, I remember it being on my mind that we had to be careful, because there are a lot of people selling puppies on the internet, apparently genuinely. I have heard from constituents who bought a puppy, unaware of the puppy trade, and then faced the sorts of issues that my hon. Friend the Member for Winchester (Dr Chambers) mentioned. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is important that the public take away from this Bill an awareness of those dangers?”
“One of the first constituents who came to me eight years ago was a WASPI woman. Does the hon. Lady agree that, after so many years, so much compromise and so much willingness to talk to the Government, one of the things that matters most to these women is not so much the amount of money but the actuality and significance of being compensated?”
“That is why we are so frustrated, and why we turn again and again to the Scottish Government, and their failure to use the resources given them by Westminster. The hon. Member for Arbroath and Broughty Ferry (Stephen Gethins) says that this place continues to have a huge impact—so it should, but that impact is undermined at every turn by the Scottish Government.”
“Although the specific subject under discussion is the spending review announced by the Labour Government, for us in Scotland the debate is about the frustration that we may not get the benefit that any UK Government intend for Scotland, with any policy, because it gets blocked in Holyrood. I hate to mention that again, but £9.1 billion, however one might contest it—it might not be quite £9.1 billion—is a lot of money for the SNP Government to squander, because squander it they will. We have only to look at the evidence of the infamous and now even later ferries, which seem to fail at every turn. The money wasted by the SNP on that fiasco could have paid for around 11,000 nurses or 3,000 GPs in our NHS.”
“That is not necessarily the fault of the Labour party, the Conservative party or the SNP, but it does not seem to matter how much money the UK Government invest in Scotland, what projects they undertake, what the spending review promises or how much money there is in Barnett consequentials—it gets squandered. As my hon. Friend the Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (Jamie Stone) said, it never seems to reach the people of Scotland. It never seems to do anything about our crumbling NHS, our schools, which are in trouble, and the housing crisis that we face.”
“It is an honour to serve with you in the chair, Sir John. I congratulate the hon. Member for Dunfermline and Dollar (Graeme Downie) on securing this debate. I apologise to you, Sir John, because I appreciate that it is frustrating that every debate about Scotland, and about this or the previous Government’s spending in Scotland, comes back to the Scottish Government. The debate is rarely about the Scottish people—about my constituents in Edinburgh West, or our constituents across Scotland. It always comes back to the Scottish Government.”
“No, I do not, actually. I agree fundamentally that the UK Government, whether Conservative or Labour, have not got everything right. But the Scottish Government have done nothing to mitigate any of the, if you like, failings of Westminster. They have done nothing to mitigate them, and have exacerbated every problem in Scotland. There is not a single area of the Scottish economy, or of Scottish education, health, or public services that one can look at, over the past two decades, and say, “Wow, didn’t the Scottish Government make a good job of that? Didn’t they spend the money well?” Just ask the constituents who I spoke to on Sunday night in Edinburgh West, who told me that they are sick to the back teeth of the SNP wasting their money—two decades they have had of it.”
“In brief, we welcome a lot of the aspects of the spending review in Scotland. We welcome the extra funding, but we view with frustration and some trepidation how the Scottish Government might waste it.”
“No, sorry. I am running out of time. It would be churlish of me not to recognise that there have been benefits from the spending review for my constituents. I welcome the £750 million investment in the exascale supercomputer, because a lot of my constituents work at the University of Edinburgh. The investment in defence spending will help my constituents who work in the defence industries in Edinburgh. I hope that the £9.1 billion—or however much—that will be invested in Scotland over the next few years helps by investing in the projects that the Liberal Democrats in Scotland have managed to get into the budget for the coming years. The investment in the Princess Alexandra eye pavilion in Edinburgh is one that is particularly close to my heart, because my constituents have suffered from the SNP’s lack of investment there.”
“As the MP for Edinburgh West, I welcome the Government’s continued commitment to the defence industries in which so many of my constituents work in the city. As the Liberal Democrat Scotland spokesperson, however, I also welcome what the Minister himself describes as a “critical” investment in the supercomputer at Edinburgh university. Will there be discussions with the Scottish Government to ensure that not just the national security implications but the educational and economic growth opportunities are achieved for the whole country, so that the whole country benefits?”
“The Foreign Secretary has referred to protections in terms of energy companies, but when it comes to Mingyang and Orient Cable in the highlands and the North sea, the concern is not their ability to produce but their ability to switch off and on the network and our energy security and, as a result, national security. Can he tell us what mitigating measures will be put in place if those contracts are won?”
“I would like to reassure all of those in the disabled community and those perhaps suffering from an eating disorder or a mental health issue that they are not in any way put at risk by the Bill. The Committee went to extreme lengths to ensure safeguards, and those people will not be eligible for an assisted death because they do not have a terminal illness. This has been difficult road for all of us. We have shared personal experiences and those of our constituents. I do not think that any of us will go through the Lobby without having had some doubts, and without having examined our own conscience and our own responsibility, but I believe that the Committee and the House have come up with a Bill that does what the people of this country want. It offers choice to adults with a terminal illness, with the safeguards that we need.”
“We all, I believe, come to this place every day determined to improve not just our society, but the lives of those who live in it—our constituents. We want to give them more choice and opportunity, but we also have a responsibility to protect the vulnerable and alleviate suffering. I do not believe that that responsibility has ever weighed more heavily on any of us, or been more present in our thoughts and our debate than it has today. We have debated this a number of times, and the Bill has been through the scrutiny of Committee. I thank the hon. Member for Spen Valley (Kim Leadbeater) for all her work, and the Committee for its work, in coming back with a Bill that I firmly believe will provide the choice that those people who are suffering at the end of life not only deserve but are calling out for us to give them.”
“It is understandable that, with so many people needing remediation, there could be delays, particularly for more complex cases or older cases that need to be examined manually, but these are having a significant impact on people’s lives.”
“I rise today to discuss an issue that I am sure affects not just my constituents in Edinburgh West but many of our constituents across the United Kingdom. Since 2018, thousands of civil servants, teachers, doctors, nurses, police officers and firefighters have been waiting for the compensation they are entitled to through the McCloud remedy, after the judgment in the Court of Appeal which ruled that changes to public sector pensions unlawfully discriminated against younger workers. That impacted a huge number of dedicated public servants, including at least 400,000 civil servants and more than half a million teachers. In Scotland, more than 13,000 police officers were impacted and are due remediation, as are around 90,000 NHS workers, according to figures produced by the Scottish Government.”
“He was told at the time that he would receive his remediable service statement by April 2025, three years after his retirement. He also estimates a loss in pension income of more than £30,000, given that seven years of his service to our community was not counted when he first retired. A third constituent of mine has raised a possible issue that he faces when retiring with an NHS pension. The Government’s approach to NHS pension remedies means that pension growth will be calculated under an older scheme from 2008, even if he believes this rollback leaves those in the middle of their careers vulnerable to artificial breaches of the annual pension allowance and significant income tax charges because of the set-up of the 2008 scheme used for calculation.”
“He retired in February 2023 with his 25% lump sum, on the assumption that the remedial scheme would be in place by October that year. He estimates that he is now owed more than £30,000 in terms of both his commuted lump sum from the new scheme and the lower monthly pension. He is also one of thousands of immediate detriment officers still waiting for their remediation letter from the pension authorities, despite claims that the number of retired officers receiving these has accelerated, including in Scotland. Another constituent started working for Lothian and Borders police, as it was, in 1996 and retired in 2022, knowing he would only receive his pension for his service between 1996 and 2015, while the remedy was calculated.”
“I thank the hon. Member for raising a very good point, which I will come to later. I agree completely; this has been particularly difficult for many people in the light of the crises we have faced in recent years, with the soaring cost of living and sky-high energy bills. This is what has happened to my constituents in Edinburgh West who have come to me with their issues with the administration of the remedy—not the remedy, but the administration of it—and the possible future impact on other pension schemes. One of my constituents who was affected is a retired police officer who served 25 years. His pension scheme was forcibly changed in 2017 to the CARE—career average revalued earnings—scheme, which was found to be discriminatory.”
“Gentleman knows, in Northern Ireland, how are the Government working with the devolved Administrations on these pension schemes to share best practice across Departments, provide increased resource and finally give these public servants, who have served our communities, taught our children and kept us safe for so long, the safety, security and financial stability that they deserve for their retirement? Surely that is what they are entitled to.”
“What steps will the Government take to ensure that pension authorities can also deliver RSS notices to speed up the process of calculating and awarding remedial pay? That is particularly important for police pensions, as there appears to be a severe backlog in issuing those notices to retired officers to allow them to make their choice under the law. That is leaving my constituents in Edinburgh West and others facing years of further uncertainty on their finances, as the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) referenced, and losing out on money that they are entitled to for their work. As policing is devolved in both Scotland and, as the hon.”
“The hon. Gentleman raises a very good point. This issue has affected all our constituents, in a different way. His is exactly the sort of point that I hope the Minister may be able to address. All the cases that we have mentioned show the impact that the remedy process has had on people who have dedicated their lives to serving our communities. It is unfair and must be tackled. In written answers to myself and other hon. Members, Ministers have said that it is up to individual pension schemes and their managers to implement the remedy rather than the relevant Government Department, but that seems to allow the schemes to delay, or leaves them without the resources and support that they need to process claims at pace. Will the Minister outline how the Government work with these authorities to ensure rapid delivery of remedial pay?”
“As Liberal Democrats, we have been concerned about the lack of a draft Bill on conversion practices, so I am relieved to hear what the Minister has said today. However, given the amount of fear and anxiety that there is among the trans community in this country, can she reassure the House that when the Bill comes forward, it will be UK-wide to overcome the Scottish Government’s withdrawal of their proposals? Further, will the Government consider whether we need fresh legislation to deal with all the issues in the Equality Act that have been raised by the Equality and Human Rights Commission’s interim guidance and the Supreme Court judgment?”
“The Question is— [ Interruption. ] Order. The Member in charge does not have the right to wind up a 30-minute debate. Question put and agreed to.”
“Order. I remind Members that if they wish to speak in the debate, they should bob. We have only 20 minutes before we have to move to the Front Benchers at 6.6 pm, so please keep speeches very brief or go for an intervention instead.”
“I am sorry, but we have to put the Question quickly. Question put and agreed to. Resolved, That this House has considered Government support for disabled people in poverty.”
“I thank the Foreign Secretary for his statement and welcome in particular the measures about bolstering our consular support. He has also made reference to our assets and the hundreds of thousands of British citizens in the wider region. What reassurance can he give us that their wellbeing is being thought about and that preparations are being made, should the conflict escalate further?”
“I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. I share with him concerns about the level and quality of palliative care in this country. However, I do not agree that giving people the choice to end their life, if they are terminally ill and have been diagnosed as dying shortly, in any way undermines our ability as a House to insist on an improvement in palliative care. What is more, statistics from other jurisdictions show that once given that choice, people often turn to palliative care.”
“On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I do not think it matters how one is going to vote on this issue; a lot of us are finding it very frustrating that some Members seem to be deliberately hanging about in the Lobbies to delay the process. In order to get the Bill through and for the public to see that we are respecting their wishes, can something be done to appeal to the better natures of those Members? It really looks petty and childish. Could they please abstain from doing it the next time?”
“I remind Members that they should bob if they wish to be called in the debate. I should also mention there is likely to be a vote shortly, at which point we will suspend the sitting for 15 minutes to allow Members to vote.”
“Happy birthday, Mr Speaker—I suspect you may be relieved that we cannot sing in the Chamber. I was recently approached by a small business owner in my constituency of Edinburgh West who faces bill of almost £30,000 for the period of lockdown when her business was closed. She is getting no sense out of British Gas Lite about why she is facing this bill, and I am getting no response from it. Will the Minister meet me to discuss how we can find out what is happening?”
“T7. A recent cyber-attack on schools and early learning IT in my constituency knocked out online access, but also underlined the need for a positive interaction between Scotland’s two Governments, rather than the constant constitutional bickering we have seen in recent years. With cyber-security about to move out of the Cabinet Office, can the Minister assure us about the way in which a positive cross-governmental and intergovernmental approach to these relationships will be secured?”
“Order. I remind hon. Members that they should bob if they wish to be called in the debate, and ask them to keep their speeches to within four minutes so that everyone can get in.”
“I remind hon. Members that they may only make a speech with prior permission from the Member in charge of the debate and the Minister. There will not be an opportunity for the Member in charge to wind up, as is the convention for 30-minute debates. Before I call the hon. Member for Wolverhampton West, I remind hon. Members that they should not refer to any court cases that are currently active and are therefore sub judice. Hon. Members will also want to be careful about raising matters that might prejudice ongoing police investigations or a future court case. I thank the hon. Member for Wolverhampton West for his courtesy in consulting with the Table Office prior to the debate.”
“I associate myself with the remarks of the hon. Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine (Andrew Bowie) about the success of Aberdeen football club. The strategic defence review makes it clear that housing must be a priority, and that the money from the sale of housing must be reinvested, but veterans continually come to me who have been discharged into homelessness. Can the Minister reassure us that we will ensure that houses that are sold or redeveloped are available to veterans’ families?”
“Order. We are going to struggle to get everybody in. I will have to ask hon. Members to keep to a formal two-minute limit, and if you intervene, unfortunately I will have to take you off the list. I have to call the Front-Bench spokespersons by 5.10 pm.”
“I am disappointed that there are no SNP Members in the Chamber— [ Interruption. ] Nobody is here from the Scottish National party. I have to take issue with the Chief Secretary, because economic growth in any part of the United Kingdom affects not just England but all of the United Kingdom. I am sure that if SNP Members were here, their constituents, like mine in Edinburgh West, would want to know what consequential implications he anticipates for Scotland. Specifically, will there be Barnett consequentials from this investment?”
“I was part of that campaign, along with the hon. Member for Walthamstow (Ms Creasy). It is right that women in every part of the United Kingdom should have the same protection, choice and rights.”