Christine Jardine
MP for Edinburgh West · Liberal Democrat · United Kingdom
“I associate myself with your comments, Mr Speaker, and those of the Secretary of State. Figures quoted today by the BBC suggest that as many as one in five young people in education may not be attending college courses regularly, so the situation may be even worse than outlined in the Milburn report.”
“I completely agree, and it did the other place no credit at all that they did that. There is something interesting and noticeable about all the experiences we have heard today. I have personal experience, which I admit influences my view. I saw my mother go through a very painful death and wished that she had had the choice.”
“I thank the hon. Member for Rochester and Strood (Lauren Edwards) for reintroducing this Bill and giving us another chance to debate the issue—although part of me regrets, as I will explain, that we have that chance.”
“That hope has been snatched away from them—and not by us. We fulfilled our responsibility to the electorate. We spent hundreds of hours in Committee, in private discussions, in debates and on Report, going over this Bill in minute detail until we could, with confidence, send to the other place the best Bill we thought possible.”
“I do, but they are each one individual, and each of the professional organisations is neutral, and believe me, I envy them on that. We have the responsibility to make the decision. The majority of us have already said that this is the best Bill we can produce.”
“I apologise for the earlier slip, Madam Deputy Speaker. May I echo the comments about the fantastic job done safeguarding the British public by the staff at NATS? Just recently, I visited air traffic control in our control tower at Edinburgh airport, and I saw at first hand the amount of work that goes into keeping the public safe.”
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“I congratulate the hon. Member on securing this important debate. My city of Edinburgh has the highest proportion of independently educated children in the country, at between 20% and 30% every year. According to the local Labour authority, 16 schools will already be over capacity at the end of this year. If the predicted percentage of children drop out of independent education into the state sector, it will not be able to cope. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that this measure is ill thought-through and that the Labour Government must come up with a way to support education, particularly as the matter is devolved in Scotland and VAT is reserved?”
“In short, over the past 75 years, it has enriched our city, its reputation across the globe and our national reputation, for music, theatre, comedy, books, television—you name it. It has enriched our reputation. I believe that we can say with some confidence that it has played a part, particularly this year, in fulfilling that original vision of fostering international understanding through the arts.”
“It suffered during the pandemic and lots of venues only just survived. We need to help it to extend the level of tax reliefs for small businesses, many of whom make a massive contribution to the festival, and to address the barriers to financial support that they face. We need to do more to support small venues, which do not have the massive events. Let us say, £1 on tickets for Murrayfield stadium would help—but do not tell Murrayfield I said that! It also provides a stage for new talent—the incubator that has been talked about. In any comedy programme on British television on any weekend of the year, there will be someone who learned their trade at the Edinburgh festival.”
“However, there is also an underlying tension, which the hon. Member for Gosport (Dame Caroline Dinenage) referred to, between the influx of tourists every year—we have also seen that tension in Vienna and Barcelona—and the cost to the city, which has the most underfunded council in the country; the mess when we have strikes which coincide with it; the pressure on our public transport; and the cost of accommodation in Edinburgh, which is now outrageous. However, looking at what the festivals bring to the city, I do not think the tensions can be compared with the benefits. Think about where we would be without the £400 million that it brings to the city itself, and the other £300 million it brings to the rest of Scotland when it acts as a tourism gateway. It is a jewel in our cultural crown and we need to preserve it.”
“Growing up in Glasgow, we were slightly jealous because all those famous people were going to Edinburgh, and that city had all the publicity, but actually, we got to benefit, too. I went with my school to see “Hamlet” as part of our higher English. We saw Derek Jacobi, and my love of the theatre was born that night—I love Shakespeare. The festival provides a valuable educational tool for children throughout Scotland, and I have grown up with it. My husband, an Aberdonian, spent one August working on a show at the festival. My daughter, a Glaswegian, spent a summer working there, and I got to “headline” at the political festival this year. It is part of people’s lives. In Edinburgh, we have a strange relationship with the festival. We love it—it is the world’s window on us and our chance to show off.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Efford. I also congratulate the hon. Member for Edinburgh East and Musselburgh on securing this debate. We cannot talk about the festival too often—I have loved it since I was a child. I learned the story of Rudolf Bing for the first time from Allan Little at the book festival that went ahead this summer. Rudolf Bing was an Austrian-born opera impresario, a Jewish refugee from the Nazis, who set up the Edinburgh festival in 1947 to heal, he said, the wounds of war through the arts. The very first performance was the Vienna Philharmonic orchestra, and they performed Mahler. Since then, it has become the massive event that it is today.”
“Even if the Government could come to some agreement with the SNP, how will they ensure that places for the 9,000 children in Edinburgh in independent schools are available in their catchment area? How will they make sure that they will be studying the right subjects, and how will they do it by January? It is just five months before they disrupt children’s education. I have listened to lots of people here today say that every child’s education is important—yes, it is. Every parent has aspirations for their child—yes, they do. And every child deserves not to have their education disrupted with just five months to find a solution. That is not fair.”
“Figures produced by the Labour-led council just before the general election showed that, by the end of this decade, 16 schools will be over capacity, without any influx from the independent sector. We have problems in education, but this is not the solution to it. It is especially not the solution in Scotland— I am not going to preach to Members about English education. We have had 17 years of damage and mismanagement of our state sector in Scotland from the Scottish National party. To parents in Scotland now, it just feels like the Labour party is joining in. There is one big flaw in this: the Minister said earlier that the money will go back into education, but parents in Scotland would like to ask how. There is no mechanism. It is a reserved tax, and education is devolved.”
“I know that because my child was one of the 7% who went to an independent school. The hon. Gentleman talks about allegations of vindictiveness and ideologically driven policies. They are coming not from those on the Opposition Benches, but from the hundreds of emails that we are getting from our constituents. Our constituents are worried about how they will get their child into a state school, and the parents of children at state schools are worried about what is going to happen to the resources at their school when it has to cope with the influx of children from the independent sector. Every year, 20% to 30% of children in Edinburgh go into the independent sector.”
“It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Hartlepool (Mr Brash). I would just mention that I am the child of aspirational parents from a working-class background. There were three little words uttered by Tony Blair that gave a lot of my family faith that an incoming Labour Government would be a good Government. Those words were, “Education, education, education.” Now those same people tell me that they are disappointed in a Labour Government who are going to tax education. Let me be clear about this. Charitable education is not about the children in the school; it is about the children who are not at the school. It is about opening up the facilities to the community, which I am sure the hon. Gentleman knows, and it is about serving the community. That is where the charitable status comes from.”
“The Prime Minister spoke rightly of the fact that we can barely imagine the pain of the Israeli families and those in Gaza affected over the past year since that Hamas atrocity, but it is also a pain felt acutely in our own communities, by our Jewish communities and by our Muslim communities. We have had 5,000 antisemitic attacks in this country since that atrocity—a record number—so what will the Prime Minister do to reassure the Jewish and Muslim communities and to work with the Community Security Trust and Tell MAMA to strengthen their bonds?”
“I welcome what the Secretary of State said about there being more news to come about Scotland, because the Acorn project is not a track 1 project; it is a track 2 project. The previous Prime Minister visited Peterhead and raised hopes that there might be investment coming there, but then nothing. The Secretary of State also spoke about the great skills that we have in oil engineering. There is possibly nowhere else in Europe, and perhaps the world, that has more of those skills than the north-east of Scotland, so can he tell us how committed the Government are to bringing forward Acorn as quickly as possible?”
“Biodiversity net gain is critical to replacing the loss we are experiencing in our environment and is now mandatory in planning applications—but with exemptions. Those exemptions mean that most developers are avoiding biodiversity net gain, so what will the Government do to tighten up the exemptions and make that more difficult?”
“We need to stop saying, “We won’t deal with it just now; we’ll deal with it next summer.” The first time I covered this story as a journalist was more than 30 years ago now, but very little has changed. Neither community feel in any way that the situation has been improved for them. It is time our Governments acted to do something about it.”
“What is the solution? I have heard about the problems in England; they are slightly different in Scotland. In England, as I understand it, councils have to identify sites, but there are no consequences for them if they do not. I believe we need concerted action by the Governments in Holyrood, where appropriate, and in Westminster to ensure that local authorities have the resources, the backing and the legislative framework to provide a network of suitable legally designated sites across the UK with facilities in appropriate places, for the Travelling community to live the lifestyle that is protected under legislation, and for local residents to feel that they are protected from Travellers arriving and parking in an inappropriate place because there is no alternative. It is time we stopped beating about the bush.”
“There is a problem with the alternative designated sites. The only option seems to be to wait, which is not good enough. In Scotland there is no specific legislation that protects people’s ability and right to live a travelling lifestyle. Yes, local authorities have powers to move communities on, but only when they have parked somewhere without the consent of the owner, under the Trespass (Scotland) Act 1865, the Refuse Disposal (Amenity) Act 1978, the Road Traffic Act 1988 or the Criminal Justice Act 2003. However, there is no specific legislative framework and no specific planning permission framework that enables communities in particular areas to feel that their rights and way of life will be protected, or that enables Travellers to feel that their way of life is protected, as it is supposed to be under the Equality Act.”
“Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake) mentioned, the Equality and Human Rights Commission has recognised Gypsy and Irish Traveller communities as a distinct ethnic group, protected under the Equality Act 2010. But here we are in 2024 and nothing seems to have changed, so is it enough? A part of me does not blame communities for being distressed or Travellers for being frustrated, because it seems like a hot potato that is just that fraction too hot to grasp; we would much rather just push it to one side. What that means is that nothing gets done until, as in my constituency this summer, there are problems and tensions. There were complaints about how animals were being treated, about human waste, about fly-tipping and about illegal parking, and then action was taken, but nothing was done beforehand. That should not be the case.”
“That caused a great deal of concern in the local community, and it caused tension. It was unfair to both: it was unfair to the Travellers, because there was no designated site nearby—there is an insufficiency of such sites up and down the country—and the local residents had to put up with behaviour that made them extremely unhappy and caused them distress. It was the Travellers’ way of life, which they did not understand. That is not good enough. Neither community is right; neither community is wrong. I feel that they often blame politicians for failing to grasp the problem. Frankly, I think they have a point: we do fail to grasp the problem. As the hon.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dame Siobhain. Sadly, this is an issue that creates perennial problems up and down the country; we never seem able to fix it. In my previous career as a journalist, I very often had to travel to areas where there was tension between local residents and Traveller groups, because the groups were established in a site that was inappropriate, was not legally designated and did not have planning permission. The local residents felt that it was not appropriate, that their lives were being disturbed, and that the behaviour was not what they were used to and they did not like it. It still happens. Only this summer, we had an issue in my constituency with a Travelling community who parked close to a local community centre.”
“T4. There are yet more depressing figures this morning about drug-related deaths in Scotland. Will the Government discuss how drug addicts are treated in the criminal justice system and look at ways of improving that to tackle the issue, and perhaps move towards safer consumption?”
“I thank the Minister for giving way, but I think she fails to understand that while we accept the principle of means-testing—we accept that there are many pensioners who can afford not to have the winter fuel payment—it is the manner in which the Labour Government intend to bring it in, with a sharp cliff edge and no accounting for the people close to the pension credit limit, that we find abhorrent.”
“I congratulate the Secretary of State and welcome him to his place. I associate myself with his earlier remarks, particularly about Scotland’s Olympians and Paralympians. I was delighted to hear the recognition in his first answer of the role that our universities will play in a new industrial strategy, which is going to be vital in Scotland, particularly in the light of the recent admissions about the mess that the Scottish National party has made of our economy in Scotland. That is why I was baffled to see the UK Government cutting £800 million from a supercomputer project at the University of Edinburgh that has the potential to support research on drug discovery, climate change and advanced engineering. What discussions did the Secretary of State have with the Chancellor of the Exchequer about the impact of that?”
“Does my hon. Friend agree that an essential part of that is addressing the problems that the railways face now? Although the Liberal Democrats are agnostic on nationalisation, as my hon. Friend says, the problems that customers face now are about pricing and timetabling, and this Bill will not address them.”
“So I would ask the Paymaster General if he will continue to update this House, but also to recognise that, in setting out the timeline, phrases such as “when parliamentary time allows” and “in due course” put doubt in people’s minds. People have been let down too often before, and they need more reassurance. Can he tell us more about the timeline, can he reassure them and can he reassure all of us that he will continue to come to this House regularly with updates, when possible?”
“I thank the Paymaster General for his statement, for his update and for confirmation that the establishment of the infected blood compensation scheme has been achieved in regulation on deadline. That is a significant step forward, which I think we should all recognise. It is a significant step forward for the families who feel they have waited far too long, and many of us have such constituents. I do, and I also have a constituent whose family were very close family friends, so we witnessed what they went through for four decades. An important thing to bear in mind is the trust that was broken with those families over what they went through, and we need to continue to work to re-establish that.”
“One of my constituents was about to end more than 20 years of service with the Post Office with a comfortable package, but she was persuaded to take on a post office for two months. She did so and then got caught up in the Horizon scandal. She had months of trauma, trying to prove her innocence and arguing with the Post Office, and then she was sacked. She lost the package and incurred a lot of expense. I spoke to the previous Minister about that. My constituent has applied for compensation, but she has been told that she is not entitled because she did not have a contract, which she says she did. Will the Minister meet me to discuss how we can protect such people and ensure that they get the compensation they are entitled to, and that we do not have this continual excuse-finding for not paying people who deserve compensation?”
“I welcome the Home Secretary’s comments, particularly in the light of a National Police Chiefs’ Council report that states that one in 12 women will be victim of a violent crime by a man. While police action is necessary, does she agree that this is a whole-Government and whole-society problem? We have to look at societal change and education, including health education, and we have to look at misogyny in the round, because it is about more than just violence; it happens to women every day, in the most everyday of circumstances.”
“I would also like to welcome you to the Chair, Madame Deputy Speaker. Much of what the Chancellor says I welcome—no fresh income tax, national insurance or VAT—but I am sure the Chancellor will recognise the concern that many pensioners, particularly in the coldest areas of the country, will be feeling at the announcement of the withdrawal of winter fuel payments. Although she is saying that she will work on bringing more people forward and encouraging them to sign up for credits, can she tell us how she is going to do that if she is also going to cut the Government communications budget?”
“May I welcome the new Minister and indeed the whole team to the Front Bench? I am sure that the Minister will agree that his most important role may be in repairing that broken relationship with the European Union for our security, for our defence and, most importantly, for our economy. Given the new Prime Minister’s focus on mission-driven Government, and with our recent return to Horizon Europe, what discussions did he have—or will he have—about extending the youth mobility scheme to the European Union? That would give thousands of young people the chance to live, work and study abroad and increase our cultural and economic links with Europe again.”
“This summer, we have been celebrating 25 years of devolution in Scotland. In the last Parliament, the Scottish Affairs Committee looked at how the relationship between the UK and Scottish Governments has deteriorated in the past decade and how we can improve it. Does the Minister agree that in the next tranche of devolution, we should look at how to improve relationships with the devolved Administrations and regional authorities? Perhaps we should set up a UK council of Ministers to involve Ministers from all the Administrations and regional mayors.”
“Q2. I congratulate the Prime Minister and welcome him to his place. I am sure he will want to reassure the many parents and teachers in Edinburgh West who have expressed concerns about the implications for our state education system in Scotland of his proposal to levy VAT on independent fees. Edinburgh city council, led by the Labour party, has produced five-year projections that show we do not have capacity in the city to accommodate pupils who may leave the independent sector. Moreover, how will he ensure that the VAT raised from fees in Scotland can be reinvested in Scotland’s already hard-pressed education system?”
“The dysfunction in the system has made the asylum backlog soar, and public confidence in the system is shattered. The Home Office has not been fit for purpose and I hope this Government’s policies as set out in the King’s Speech will address that. It needs to put people at its heart, with safe and legal routes to sanctuary, and it cannot be stated how pleased I am that the unworkable Rwanda plan has been scrapped. But we must smash the criminal gangs at the root of the people trafficking that is causing so much distress. I welcome what the Government have announced so far but we do need more, and those safe and legal routes I mentioned are surely the best way to take power away from the gangs. Along with that, we need to expand and properly fund the UK resettlement scheme.”
“They have suffered as much, perhaps more, than many other sectors from the chaotic and ineffective immigration and visa system we have had in this country for the past decade. Make no mistake, we need to improve it, but we need to improve it for our economy and for our NHS. Generations of people from all over the world have greatly enriched our economy, our culture and our communities, and as liberals my party and I would like to see people treated as just that: people who come here and benefit our country. But our immigration system has been broken by the Conservatives. Damaging rules mean British employers cannot recruit the people they need and families are separated by unfair complex visa requirements. In my constituency of Edinburgh West, I have sat with families torn apart by these rules and done my best to reunite them.”
“I would hope, when we see the detail, that it will provide clear guidance for local councils, schools and other public bodies on how to ensure that every bereaved child knows where to find the right help for them when they need it, so that their lives are not blighted and they do not go into adulthood carrying the burden of that grief. There is one other issue I would highlight. I live in and represent part of Edinburgh, a diverse city, which at this time of the year is preparing for a massive influx of performers and audiences from across the world. It is fun and it is entertaining, but more than that, it is a vital event that brings more than £400 million into the local economy every year. It is part of our creative industries, which are worth £126 billion to the UK economy every year.”
“If I could beg your indulgence, Mr Deputy Speaker, I would like to make something of a personal plea to the Government. In the last Parliament, I introduced a private Member’s Bill motivated by my own experience and my family’s experience of losing a parent too young. I worked closely with leading charities, such as Winston’s Wish, which provide bespoke counselling, group sessions and online services to help young people deal with their grief. I was delighted to see the children’s wellbeing Bill and its recognition of the need for better bereavement support.”
“However, we also need to look at how we are working with our neighbours to tackle international crime. It will come as no surprise that I hope this Government will work to repair some of the damage done to that co-operation by the previous Government’s attitude to Europe, as well as to build a better relationship with Europe and improve co-operation with our neighbours on tackling cross-border crime, human trafficking, the illegal drug trade, cyber-crime and terrorism. We need to recognise the golden thread that runs through Departments, and that success will be much more likely if we do not work in silos. As the Home Secretary said, we need to invest in youth services that are genuinely engaging. What this all comes down to is prevention and early intervention to improve lives and make our communities safer.”
“Unnecessary cuts and the ineffective use of resources have contributed to the rise in unsolved crimes, as police forces have been left overstretched and under-resourced. Serious violence has destroyed too many young lives, our communities are plagued by burglaries, fraud and antisocial behaviour, and far too many criminals are getting away with it. As I say, violence against women and girls remains horrifically high. On top of that, the huge backlog in the courts is denying victims the justice they deserve. Prisons are in crisis—overcrowded, understaffed and failing to rehabilitate offenders. We need to free up local officers’ time to focus on their communities, and we on the Liberal Democrat Benches will continue to call for a return to proper community policing.”
“Working together on that was key, and it can be again on the crime and policing Bill and the victims, courts and public protection Bill. Specifically, the Domestic Abuse Commissioner, Nicole Jacobs, has been clear that we really need to see full ratification of the Istanbul convention and new mandatory training for police on supporting the victims of violence against women and girls. I am sure everyone here agrees with the sentiment that all of us deserve to feel safe in our own homes and communities. That provides the security and the stability from which people can live their best lives and create the best communities. Yet for too many people in the UK in the past decade, that has simply not been the reality.”
“Could we be entering a period of more positive attitudes towards immigration, as well as fixing the asylum backlog, having more community policing and, as the Home Secretary mentioned, having a continued focus on tackling violence against women and girls? Today’s report estimates that one in 12 women in England and Wales will be a victim of male violence every year. That is shocking. The Domestic Abuse Act 2021 was important in moving us forwards, but there is more to do, and I welcome the comments of the Home Secretary on working together. While I have confidence in the new Government’s determination to tackle violence against women and girls, I urge them to continue with the same cross-party approach that, as mentioned, proved so successful with the Domestic Abuse Act.”
“I welcome the Home Secretary to her place and congratulate her on what I hope will be a new era in home affairs in this country. I thank her for her declared openness to working together across the House in the best interests of everyone. I have to say that I have had one small disappointment in that I had anticipated we would not argue about the Rwanda scheme today. For too long, it seems, we have had to listen to the empty rhetoric about a failing immigration and asylum system and the botched attempts to fix it. Today we should be looking forward with more of a sense of anticipation. It is like the day someone gets their exam results and chooses their university, with the anticipation of the choices—the positive choices—they will make in the future.”
“Later today we will be proposing an amendment detailing the areas we would like to see strengthened: upholding public standards; addressing the crisis in our health system; having a cross-party commission on social care; and scrapping the two-child benefit cap. On those areas where we can work with this Government, we will do so. What they have set out is only a beginning, however, and we look forward to seeing the detail of the legislation.”
“The hon. Gentleman knows that I believe we should be looking at the sectors that suffer. The fruit production and picking sector and the food processing sector in Scotland need a workforce and need immigration as much as those sectors in the rest of the United Kingdom. We should not look at specific geographical areas; we should be looking at sectors. We should be looking at industries and what benefits the whole of the economy of the whole of the United Kingdom. I have mentioned the UK resettlement scheme, but we also need clarity on whether the Illegal Migration Act 2023 and the Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) Act 2024 will be repealed and consigned to history as the expensive mistakes we surely recognise them as. This Government have much to do and, where we can, we will support and work with them.”
“I am delighted the hon. Member has brought this subject forward. As he probably knows, it is very close to my heart and I have been doing a lot of work on it. The figures he brings up for this problem are the tip of the iceberg, because although we know that children are bereaved every day, we do not know where they are and the charities do not know how to get in touch with them. That is why I have brought forward a private Member’s Bill—the Bereavement Support (Children and Young People) Bill—to create a protocol for putting children in touch with organisations and vice versa. Is that something the hon. Member thinks he can support?”
“Further to the point that the hon. Member for Warrington South (Andy Carter) just made, I agree that perhaps there is no need to put the information on the death certificate. However, when it comes to the school census, very often children will have moved from one parent’s house to another’s, if the parents have separated, or even to their grandparents’ home, so the school has no way of knowing. It would therefore be useful to inform the school, but we also have to take into account GDPR. So it might not be as easy as the schools being able to tell people. However, if the person responsible for recording the death could set the whole process in motion, that might be easier.”
“The Minister will know that I am concerned about the level of standing charges in my constituency, as I have discussed this issue with her before. One of the problems is that people with pre-payment meters often find that, when they go to add the payment, the standing charges wipe everything out. Can the Government and Ofgem find a way to provide more support for those on pre-payment meters to avoid that problem?”
“I, too, welcome today’s statement, which has been a long time coming. This is a poignant day for many of my constituents, their families and friends. Reassurance has been called for by organisations such as Haemophilia Scotland that the recommendations will be adhered to, as perhaps they have not been in the past. Does the Minister agree that having the involvement of various groups of infected and affected people will help ensure that happens?”
“Does the hon. Member agree that, notwithstanding the fact that the fiscal framework has brought the two Governments to the table, the problems we are seeing with spending and the constant arguments are not in the best interests of the people of Scotland? What they really need is two Governments who work more closely together and in concert for Scotland.”
“Sadly, we all know that misogyny can lead to acts of violence and sexual attacks, and it is right in those circumstances that we use exclusions to safeguard staff and Members in this place. But we should not forget that misogyny can also be part of everyday culture in workplaces in this country, where women are talked over, their ideas ignored until men put them forward, and inappropriate comments are made—so-called banter culture. All of that can lead to so much more, which we want to prevent. Can the Leader of the House set out what more the Government want to do to attack that culture? Can we have a debate in Government time to discuss how we can protect women in the workplace?”
“I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way. The point he makes rings true for me. The very first constituent who came to me with a problem when I was elected seven years ago was a WASPI woman. She was less than two years away from retirement when she learned by accident of the change. Seven years on, she is no better off; in a lot of ways, she is much worse off. A lot of those who are not WASPI women now wonder if they know the truth about when they will get their pension. Does he agree that although this issue is fundamentally about the WASPI women, it is about trust, and women having trust in this institution?”
“The petition states: “The petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urges the Government to implement the recommendations in the Second Interim Report of the Infected Blood Inquiry without delay.” Following is the full text of the petition : [ The petition of residents of the constituency of Edinburgh West, Declares that people who received infected blood and who have suffered as a consequence have, along with their families, waited for too long for redress . The petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urges the Government to implement the recommendations in the Second Interim Report of the Infected Blood Inquiry without delay. And the petitioners remain, etc. ] [P002985]”