Marsha De Cordova
MP for Battersea · Labour · United Kingdom
“I thank my hon. Friend for the very powerful speech she is giving; she truly sets the tone when she talks about disabled people. There was a poll out this morning of thousands of disabled people, and many of them rightly said that they need assistance to live.”
“My hon. Friend is making a good case for this Bill, but she will know that when the Bill was introduced in 2024, no equality impact assessment was carried out.”
“May I say how delighted I was to see the hon. Member’s name on the Order Paper? He did not have to bob this time. I join him in congratulating churches on the valuable role their play in supporting young people, and I thank him for raising the excellent work of churches in Newtownards. Following my exchange with the right hon.”
“May I first thank my hon. Friend for her continued and steadfast support for the Palestinians? Since the start of this year, the UN has reported that 76 Palestinians have been killed by settler violence, and that number includes 18 children.”
“I have several constituents who are retired civil servants and are still waiting to receive their pension statements and their pensions. This is causing a lot of worry, distress and, in some cases, financial hardship.”
“As my hon. Friend mentions, in parts of Nigeria Christian communities continue to face considerable persecution, particularly from Fulani militia and Boko Haram. This has been happening for many decades.”
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“As you rightly highlighted, Sir Jeremy, the Measures are quite narrow, but the hon. Member for Weald of Kent was given much time to talk about important projects, such as Project Spire. A lot of her questions have been dealt with. If she would like written answers, I suggest she table them as written questions. I also point to the fact that a number of her questions have been answered, so she can also check those. In relation to the Archbishops’ Council certificates, these were published on 3 February. She can check those records. I am very happy to write to her on anything I have missed. Question put and agreed to. Church Funds Investment Measure (HC 772) Resolved, That the Committee has considered the Church Funds Investment Measure (HC 772). —(Marsha de Cordova.)”
“My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech and case against the cut to aid. She knows that the world’s most vulnerable children include disabled children. The Government’s disability inclusion and rights strategy was going a long way towards supporting those children through healthcare, and when it came to social protections. Does she agree that unless we get clear assurances, many millions of disabled children will end up suffering greater loss? Brilliant organisations such as Able Child Africa, which is based in my constituency, are deeply concerned about the impact the cuts will have on disabled children.”
“Since the publication of the Makin report, which exposed the devastating abuse inflicted by John Smyth, MPs—myself included—have received correspondence from constituents, local clergy, and victims and survivors. Indeed, in this debate we have heard from many Members from across the House about the many challenges that this issue has raised for them. They have rightly expressed their concern about the historical and ongoing failures to keep people safe in the Church—the one place that anybody would expect to be a place of safety and sanctuary. They have also expressed concern about what looks to be a lack of consistency and transparency in the Church’s approach to safeguarding and disclosures of abuse.”
“Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for allowing me to speak in the debate in my capacity as Second Church Estates Commissioner. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Luke Myer) on securing this extremely important debate, and on the way in which he so eloquently set out the issue, the challenges, and the action and next steps that need to be taken. I share his desire to see survivors of abuse treated justly, with dignity and respect, and for perpetrators to be fully held to account. Like him, I look forward to a time when we all have our confidence in the Church of England’s safeguarding practices fully restored. When I was appointed Second Church Estates Commissioner last October, I could not have foreseen the storm that was about to engulf the Church.”
“The Church is a voice for the voiceless, as many of us know, and I hope I will not find myself in this Chamber in a year or two repeating the same sentiment.”
“Friend the Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland for his commitment to seeing this change through. He should be commended for his relentlessness in ensuring that this place has the opportunity to debate the issue. This is one of the first Adjournment debates on an issue that affects the Church, and it is important that many hon. Members have chosen to be in the Chamber, to contribute and to raise such important issues. As I said when the Makin report was published in November last year, this has to be a watershed moment for the Church to transform both its culture and its safeguarding structures. Unless that happens, what will happen to the Church? Many of us here are Christians and followers of Jesus, so we want to see the Church change.”
“It was right that the Synod voted to “lament and repent of the failure of the Church to be welcoming to victims and survivors and the harm they have experienced and continue to experience in the life of the Church”, but we need to remember that keeping people safe and ensuring accountability is the best way to honour victims and survivors of abuse. Some are probably watching today’s debate; some may even be here in person. They will be listening, and they will know better than any of us that there is still a long way to go. The Church must treat its work on independent safeguarding operations as a matter of urgency. We need no more blocking; we just need action, because action will speak louder than any words that any of us say here today. I am grateful to my hon.”
“That approach was known as model 3, and it will see the transfer of most of the functions currently delivered by the Church’s national safeguarding team, except policy development, to an external employer. Although model 3 includes looking at some of the practicalities of creating a fully independent safeguarding body to take on all the Church’s safeguarding work, I do not believe that that was the approach that needed to be taken, as I have outlined. It is vital, however, that the work is taken up with urgency and at pace. At present, there are no clear deadlines and no clear plan for taking the work forward. I believe we need to see a clear plan if we are to give victims and survivors, and the public, hope that the Church will really transform its approach to safeguarding, and the safety of those who are part of it.”
“It was supported by Professor Alexis Jay, who was the author of the report “The Future of Church Safeguarding”, known as the Jay review, and by local clergy in my constituency of Battersea. They made it clear to me that, while they are getting on with the day-to-day work of the Church, serving and supporting their local community on the frontline, they want to see the Church as an institution show some humility. Like me, they do not think that the Church should mark its own homework. It was therefore a huge disappointment to me that the Synod chose not to back a wholly independent model of safeguarding. Instead, it opted for the creation of an external scrutiny body to examine the Church’s safeguarding practices.”
“We have come to a point where both Parliament and the public need to see the Church fully committed to change. We have to ensure that safeguarding is transparent, accountable, consistent in its approach to disclosures of abuse, and trusted by the public, congregations, clergy and, most importantly, victims and survivors. That is why, at the General Synod in February, during my maiden speech, I made clear my support for the Church’s safeguarding operations to be wholly independent of the Church. That was the approach put forward by the Church’s lead bishop for safeguarding, Joanne Grenfell, and it was known as model 4. That approach would have created independent safeguarding operations, an independent complaints process, an independent scrutiny function and independent audits.”
“My hon. Friend will not be surprised to hear that I agree with her 100%. These failures are not new. As my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland highlighted, before the Makin review there was the independent inquiry into child sex abuse. Over the past nine years, there have been multiple reviews into safeguarding abuses in the Church of England—multiple reviews with multiple recommendations, I might add. There have been some positive steps and changes, and I commend the work of the national safeguarding team and many people in our local parishes and dioceses around the country, who have all been working incredibly hard, but I think we can collectively agree that more needs to be done. Victims and survivors have been waiting for too long.”
“My hon. Friend has also been using her voice to speak up on this issue. We need to focus on the matter at hand: safeguarding in the Church of England. We have seen the recommendations in the Makin review and in all the previous reviews, so my question is: if change does not happen now, then when will it happen?”
“The Church of England has more than 10,000 churches in our towns and villages in rural areas. In addition to their regular processes of prayer and worship, parish churches play an important role in the life of our rural communities.”
“I congratulate the hon. Member on being a true champion for his constituency and also for the need for additional resources that will ensure that our churches can truly stand the test of time. I shall certainly raise these issues and write to him about what steps he can take at a local level. It is also worth pointing out that representing rural communities and dioceses, bishops do meet regularly on a quarterly basis to look at best practice and other ways that they can support their diocese better.”
“As I set out in Church Commissioner questions in January, the listed places of worship scheme is an effective way to deliver transformational benefits to local communities. The Government’s extension of the scheme is very welcome, but there are a number of unanswered questions about the impact of the changes to the scheme.”
“The hon. Member has raised this issue at Church Commissioner questions previously, and he is right to continue to do so. Although the scheme is being extended until March 2026, we do not have a long-term plan or solution. It is only right that the Government should set out their plans. We know that in larger-scale projects costing over £125,000, not all the VAT can be returned. It is important that the Department for Culture, Media and Sport comes up with a solution to ensure that the listed places of worship scheme can continue.”
“The hon. Member makes an important point, and raises an issue that affects many churches. The £25,000 cap works for smaller projects, but it will not go far enough for larger projects, such as the one in his constituency. The church that I attend, Holy Trinity in Clapham, is experiencing similar challenges. I am happy to meet him.”
“I will take my hon. Friend’s question back to see if we can set up a meeting. As she highlighted, many churches will be missing out on vital funds to carry out necessary repairs, particularly those that have already started work. If that work extends beyond the March 2026 deadline, they will not be able to reclaim any VAT. It is important that we find a long-term solution. I will be happy to take that forward.”
“The right hon. Member is a true champion of cathedrals, and particularly the one in his constituency. It was a pleasure to meet him to explore issues that he has raised. Research by the Association of English Cathedrals has shown that cathedrals’ 9.5 million visitors contributed around £235 million in additional expenditure to cathedrals and local businesses. I understand that Salisbury cathedral, in the right hon. Gentleman’s constituency, featured in nearly nine in 10 visits by tourists to Salisbury.”
“Nobody can deny that working cross-party is one of the best ways to get things done, so I am happy to support the right hon. Member and others in their endeavours. I am also happy to meet the group.”
“As I say, the Church of England meets regularly to look at the impact of costs on cathedrals, and I am happy to write to my hon. Friend about the issue.”
“The pastoral and closed churches department of the Church Commissioners has recently consulted with the Church of Scotland on the experience of managing parishes and small congregations.”
“The National Church Institutions and the Church of Scotland signed the Columba declaration, committing to joint dialogue on a range of issues. I understand that they meet regularly to discuss these issues. It might be useful for her to reach out to the Church of Scotland on that, and if she is unable to do so, I am happy to put her in touch with it.”
“The situation in Gaza and the west bank is devastating, and the Church continues to support the diocese of Jerusalem through prayer, financial assistance and advocacy. The archbishop’s appeal for the diocese continues to provide much-needed support for Church organisations and bodies, whether that is in Gaza or the west bank.”
“There is no safe place on the west bank, including in East Jerusalem, for Palestinians. The attacks on the Christian community there are focused on seizing land and property, and have been increasing in recent months, with Armenian churches bearing the brunt. The Christian community faces a co-ordinated and aggressive move to drive these living stones of our faith to leave the region. Bishops have frequently visited the region over the past 16 months; they have regularly met the Archbishop of Jerusalem to discuss how best they can help the diocese to respond to the many appalling attacks. It is important that we hold up the people of Palestine in prayer for their safety and security. Violence is not the answer to any of this.”
“I mentioned funds in my response to my hon. Friend the Member for Edmonton and Winchmore Hill (Kate Osamor). I can certainly write to the hon. Gentleman about the discussions that have taken place with the Archbishop of Jerusalem, if he would find that helpful.”
“My hon. Friend will know that I do not answer for the Church of Scotland, and that heritage and culture is a devolved matter, but when a parish church is to close, the Church of England tries to secure a new home for its instruments, working with local authorities, the diocese and national heritage bodies. I believe that the Church of Scotland is taking similar steps.”
“Again, my hon. Friend highlights the importance and significance of preserving instruments, particularly the one at St Margaret’s. I would be happy to write to her to suggest organisations that may be able to help the congregation. I would also be happy to put her in touch with the Church of Scotland to see how it can best take the matter forward with her.”
“The Crown Nominations Commission, chaired by Lord Evans, will oversee the appointment of a new archbishop. A public consultation is under way— I encourage all hon. Members to submit their thoughts; they have until 28 March to do so—and an announcement is expected before the end of the year.”
“I am pleased that that will take place, and I encourage hon. Members from across the House to go along to those sessions.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for her fantastic and poignant question. Historical and recent safeguarding failures have eroded trust in the Church. To rebuild and restore that trust, the Church must show that it is serious about keeping people safe. That must include holding to account those who are responsible for failures—no one, no matter how senior, can be above scrutiny and accountability. I agree that those responsible for selecting the next archbishop must inspire confidence and trust, both among the public and among victims and survivors, who have been so badly let down. Next Monday’s Adjournment debate will be on safeguarding in the Church of England. There will also be a question and answer session on safeguarding with the Archbishop of York and other senior members of the Church.”
“We have clear evidence that laws like this can and do work, and I urge the House to support this Bill. Question put and agreed to. Ordered, That Marsha De Cordova, Kate Osamor, Steve Darling, Jim Shannon, Daniel Francis, Shockat Adam, Martin Vickers, Dr Scott Arthur, Jen Craft, Florence Eshalomi, Rosie Duffield and Dr Rosena Allin-Khan present the Bill. Marsha De Cordova accordingly presented the Bill. Bill read the F irst time; to be read a S econd time on Friday 16 May , and to be printed (Bill 170) .”
“I understand that she is due to meet some of the charities and groups campaigning on this issue, and I know that they hope to speak to her before any final decisions are made. I also welcome the references to pavement parking in the White Paper on the English devolution Bill, and the consideration of licensing for micro-mobility devices. However, there needs to be an explicit commitment, and a clear timetable, to address these problems. The Government are rightly committed to delivering record investment in infrastructure and transport projects, but it is important that we get the fundamentals right and make sure that our streets are safe for everyone. Pavement parking prevents many people from living their lives, working, socialising, taking their children to school or getting to a vital appointment, and that has to change.”
“This morning, I was delighted to join a group of campaigners in supporting an open letter, signed by almost 20,000 people, that urges party leaders to support a change in the law. This is not a new debate; indeed, the measures introduced in London in 1974 were originally intended to apply to the rest of the country. In 2020, the then Conservative Government consulted on tackling pavement parking. That consultation considered a range of options, but today marks 1,530 days since it closed. Indeed, on 8 February last year, I called on the then Government to get on and publish their response. I welcome the Roads Minister’s commitment that this Government are looking at all options and will come forward with a response to the consultation in due course, and I look forward to working with her on that.”
“Given the lack of a clear definition of what constitutes an obstruction, and the lack of police resources, relying on police enforcement has not proven effective. There is a clear need for a law that brings the rest of England in line with London and Scotland. Councils need to be empowered to take action, as they know their areas best. This Bill would give them the flexibility to create limited exemptions in response to consultation with their local communities. A change in the law has widespread support, including from over 65% of the public and 74% of councillors in England. Sustrans, Guide Dogs, Living Streets, Transport for All, the Royal National Institute of Blind People and the Thomas Pocklington Trust all support a new law.”
“That is reflected in highway code rule 244, which states: “You MUST NOT park partially or wholly on the pavement in London, and should not do so elsewhere unless signs permit it.” Civil traffic enforcement is possible in some limited cases, such as for parking over dropped kerbs or adjacent to double yellow lines, but in most cases local traffic wardens do not actually have powers to act. Councils can use traffic regulation orders or install physical barriers to prevent pavement parking, but TROs are not designed to be used to cover wide areas and require considerable signage and street markings, making their widespread use expensive. In some cases, cars blocking pavements can be considered an obstruction under the Highways Act 1980. However, as this is a criminal offence, it can be enforced only by police.”
“It means we have to step out into busy roads…I have to concentrate to make sure none of us gets run over.” While we should commend the progress made on pavement parking in London, increasingly we are seeing abandoned rental e-scooters and e-bikes obstructing pavements. That remains a problem in my constituency. This Bill would increase the power of local authorities to introduce penalties for operators and riders of e-bikes and e-scooters left on pavements. It would replicate the existing offence of parking heavy goods vehicles on pavements or kerbs, and extend it to all motor vehicles. Civil enforcement officers could actually enforce that. Although it has long been a specific offence to drive on pavements outside London and Scotland, it is not a specific offence to park on pavements in most circumstances.”
“As well as causing an obstruction, cars parked on pavements damage the surface, creating trip hazards, and one in five people with sight loss said they had been injured as a result. However, it does not have to be this way. In London, a law prohibiting pavement parking has been in place since 1974. Progress has also been made in Scotland, where the Transport (Scotland) Act 2019 enabled local councils to enforce against pavement parking. So while progress has been made in some parts of the country, in many others pavement parking continues. My constituent Kimberley spoke of the contrast when travelling outside London: “I don’t encounter much pavement parking in London… But when I visit family elsewhere it is a different story. People park everywhere, and don’t leave enough space for me, my guide dog and my young son to pass.”
“Helen, a guide dog owner, described the impact of pavement parking when she came to Parliament to speak on the issue at the end of last year: “My life hinges on my ability to trust in the safety of my surroundings, but when pavement parking obstructs the path, it robs me of my independence, confidence, and my trust in the world around me. Each time my trusted path is blocked, I lose a little more of my autonomy.” Helen is not alone. According to research conducted by the charity Guide Dogs, four out of five blind or partially sighted people said that pavement parking made it difficult to walk on the pavement at least once a week, and nearly 95% of people living with sight loss have been forced to walk in the road owing to vehicles parked on pavements. That number rose to 99% for wheelchair or mobility scooter users.”
“I beg to move, That leave be given to bring in a Bill to amend the law relating to parking on verges and footways in England outside of Greater London and in Wales. The Bill would give local authorities power to enforce against anti-social and hazardous pavement parking, and associated powers to enforce against obstructive parking of rental micromobility devices, including e-scooters and e-bikes. Across much of the country, cars blocking pavements are one of the most common problems faced by pedestrians. Pavement parking can be especially dangerous for wheelchair users and those using other mobility devices, people with pushchairs and young children, and people with sight loss, like me, who can be forced into the road with traffic that they cannot see.”
“Research in June 2023 found that only 56% of teachers in mainstream schools felt confident about supporting children with a special educational need or disability. Today, that means many children, including in my constituency, are still missing out on learning and leaving school without the skills they need. Does the Minister agree that we need more specialist teachers, including those for multisensory purposes and for children with visual impairments, to ensure every child has the opportunity to fulfil their potential?”
“The listed places of worship grant scheme provides support to religious communities with listed buildings by refunding the cost of VAT on repairs. The Church Commissioners view this scheme as an effective way to deliver transformational benefits to local communities, enabling restoration, repair and improved access. I welcome the support shown for the scheme by hon. Members across the House.”
“I congratulate my hon. Friend on raising this issue. It is so important to ensure that our local churches are supported and that churches such as St Michael’s in his constituency can deliver the repairs they need so that they can continue to be a benefit to their communities. The National Churches Trust recently found that for every £1 of investment £16 is returned to the local community in the form of events facilities, warm spaces, food banks and so much more. He will not be surprised to learn that I have raised the issue of the listed places of worship scheme with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, and I really hope that the Government are listening and will want to continue with this vital and essential scheme.”
“I know that St Michael’s church in Linlithgow in my hon. Friend’s constituency is a beautiful medieval church with strong community links and engagement. Although I am accountable only for the Church of England, I reassure her that the Church is working closely with its partners in Scotland, as they too want clarity on the future of this vital scheme. I would be happy to put her in touch with the head of church buildings for the Church of Scotland if she so wishes.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for her question. I know that St Ives church is a cornerstone of that community, and I congratulate the congregation on the funding they have raised to stabilise some of the church’s structures. Grants from the buildings for mission fund are available from the diocese and may help with some of the future work. However, we all know the importance of the listed places of worship scheme, and I will continue to raise it with the Secretary of State. I hope that the Government are listening and will come forward, as the scheme is due to end in March, and we certainly do not want that to happen.”
“I absolutely recognise the importance of the scheme and the difference that the cathedral’s social impact projects are making in her community. I would be very happy to put my hon. Friend in touch with the director of property strategy for the Church in Wales, so that they can discuss this issue and, I hope, lobby together to ensure—to say it once again—that the scheme is renewed.”
“I thank the hon. Member for the question. As he will have heard throughout this Question Time, we are keen to ensure that the listed places of worship grant scheme continues, because we can see not only the immense benefits it brings to our communities, but how it helps to alleviate some of the challenges of raising funds. It is important that all our heritage buildings, including our churches, are preserved and that adequate funding is available for them. I would be very happy, if the hon. Member wishes, to meet him to discuss this further.”
“I will certainly share the hon. Member’s thoughts, but I am happy to write to him with further details on other spaces where he can get more information on how he can support schemes in his constituency.”
“The Makin report made clear the devastating abuse suffered by children and young people at the hands of John Smyth. In the meeting I had with representatives from the Archbishops’ Council, I raised the need for the Makin review to be a defining and watershed moment for the Church. The review made 27 recommendations, some of which have already been implemented. I am awaiting a full and thorough update from the Church on the detailed progress being made on each recommendation. That work is in addition to the ongoing efforts to respond to the Wilkinson and Alexis Jay inquiries into child sexual abuse. Following these reports, the Church began developing potential new safeguarding models, which will be decided at the General Synod in February.”
“In addition, the Church institutions have developed the two model proposals on safeguarding, which will go to the Synod in February. Those independent safeguarding models will look at a scrutiny body and at safeguarding operations more independent of the Church. I will be at the Synod in February, and I will listen closely to that debate. Make no mistake, the Church has an enormous amount of work to do to create a cultural shift. That is what is required. It needs to rebuild trust and confidence. It is also important that everybody in the House feels as though they get the opportunity to raise their concerns. I thank my hon. Friend and others for ensuring that they have raised this issue here today.”