Graeme Downie
MP for Dunfermline and Dollar · Labour · United Kingdom
“Young people make a hugely positive contribution to our communities, but for months, sadly, we have seen physical assaults and antisocial behaviour at Dunfermline bus station, perpetrated by a small minority of young offenders.”
“It is something I have raised with the Department since the publication of the DIP. On future infrastructure capability, I will be slightly parochial and ask the Minister to respond to a couple of questions around submarine infrastructure when he is winding up.”
“I have repeatedly argued in this place that the United Kingdom should regard itself as already being in a sustained confrontation with the Russian state—not a conventional shooting war, but a prolonged campaign of hostile activity directed against our people, our infrastructure, our economy and our democratic institutions—and that raises…”
“Friend the Member for North East Derbyshire (Louise Sandher-Jones), said: “We cannot provide detail on how the MOD would respond to certain activities versus others as this would assist our adversaries.” Rather than burden the Department with a load of additional written questions, can I ask the Minister some very specific questions?”
“That includes the improvements in pay and support for serving personnel and their families and in housing, which is leading to increases in recruitment, retention and morale. That is all a vital part of rearmament and deterrence, showing our adversaries that our armed forces are ready to fight tonight, as was mentioned earlier.”
“We are not alone, and for anyone who wants to track this activity across Europe, Emma Burrows from AP News has a fantastic website with up-to-date information. At what point do Governments say enough is enough, and at what point, crucially, do they tell the British people that a line has been crossed?”
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“There is scope and there is hope to grow the provision for deep brain stimulation in Scotland, but we need to see urgent action, attention and focus to make that a reality. We cannot talk about comprehensive care without acknowledging the dedicated but wildly overstretched workforce. Our health professionals do heroic work, but they are overstretched. Today, we are 100 full-time equivalent Parkinson’s nurses short of what is needed. Only 44% of people with Parkinson’s have access to occupational therapists, only 62% have access to physio- therapists and just 40% have access to speech and language therapists, despite the fact that Parkinson’s affects speech and swallowing so acutely. We must do better. The NHS across the UK must invest in this multi- disciplinary workforce that enables people with Parkinson’s to live well.”
“Parkinson’s costs the UK an estimated £3 billion a year, much of which is avoidable through better care and early intervention. I recently spoke with a clinician who was emphatic in his view that people with Parkinson’s need to be able to access specialist services easily. In turn, those specialist services need to be able to recognise when advanced therapies, such as apomorphine infusion, Produodopa and deep brain stimulation, may be helpful. Critically, patients must be able to access them easily and equally. Compared to our European counterparts, this clinician’s view was that we do not use those advanced therapies as much as we should. Despite there being no lack of ambition in Scotland, we are lagging behind on interventions such as deep brain stimulation, which can be hugely impactful on people’s quality of life.”
“People with Parkinson’s should not be lost in a bureaucratic labyrinth while their condition worsens. Governments across the UK could deliver a diagnostic pathway that guarantees access to a Parkinson’s specialist within 18 weeks of referral—not occasionally, not when it is convenient, but every single time. That manageable goal aligns with existing National Institute for Health and Care Excellence guidelines. I urge the Minister to consider that the NHS long-term workforce plan must deliver the neurological professionals and Parkinson’s specialist nurses that this country urgently needs. We must remember that delays in diagnosis and care lead to irreversible deterioration, and the cost is not just human, but financial.”
“The Parky charter calls for a Parkinson’s passport, and it is possible that the foundations for that already exist in the pioneering Parkinson’s Connect programme. That programme allows clinicians to refer patients directly to the full network of support that Parkinson’s UK offers, from specialist nurses to peer support groups, helplines and tailored advice. It is low-cost, high-impact and, crucially, scalable. When the Minister responds later in the debate, will she agree to meet Parkinson’s UK to explore how Parkinson’s Connect can be scaled across the country? It is the type of innovation that our health system needs: solutions that empower people and relieve pressure on the NHS simultaneously. The fourth strand of the Parky charter is comprehensive care.”
“Nearly a quarter of people diagnosed with Parkinson’s report that they were not given adequate information about their condition. A similar number, as referred to by the right hon. Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh), were not told about the support available through Parkinson’s UK, the helplines, the care advisers, the groups that offer peer support and the crucial services that can help people adapt, cope and find community. Can you imagine, Madam Deputy Speaker, receiving a life-altering diagnosis and being sent home with no clear path, no specialist nurse, no appointment, no physiotherapist and no speech therapist—just a prescription and a sense that your life has fundamentally changed? That is not care; that is neglect. Again, there is hope.”
“That was exactly my response when I heard that story. I imagined what it must be like for someone and their loved ones to sit with a suggested diagnosis of something so serious and significant, having to wait nine months before even seeing a specialist for the first time. To me, it felt like a clash between bureaucracy and humanity. We can and we must push for better. The UK currently ranks 44th out of 45 European nations when it comes to the number of neurologists per capita. That is not a workforce issue or a bureaucratic issue—it is a sign of a systematic failure and a life-altering injustice. Parkinson’s is a condition that can progress rapidly, and delays mean lost time, lost function and lost hope. However, the crisis does not end with diagnosis; in fact, for many, that is when the sense of abandonment begins.”
“Volunteer groups are vital to ensure that those with Parkinson’s can live with their condition, and they provide incredible value. We should always be grateful for the volunteers who give up their time. We also heard about the value of and impact on families, which I mentioned in my speech and which came through again in a range of hon. Members’ speeches. I thank the Minister for her response. I look forward to continuing to work with her and Members across the House, looking at the next steps for better diagnosis and better care, so that we can better support those with Parkinson’s and their families, and towards one day having a cure for Parkinson’s. Question put and agreed to. Resolved, That this House has considered Parkinson’s Awareness Month.”
“I once again thank the Backbench Business Committee for allowing the debate and hon. Members from all parts of the House for their contributions, which were often emotional—I thank them for sharing those stories. A few themes came through, largely around the value of local volunteers and groups, beginning with the first intervention from the Father of the House, the right hon. Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh). We then heard from the hon. Member for Meriden and Solihull East (Saqib Bhatti) about Jane, from my hon. Friend the Member for Stirling and Strathallan (Chris Kane) about John and Anne, and from my hon. Friend the Member for Hertford and Stortford (Josh Dean) about Angie. We also heard the especially emotional story of Jagdeep from my hon. Friend the Member for Ilford South (Jas Athwal).”
“In his statement, the Secretary of State referred to Russian attempts to support Houthi operations. Without compromising any information that he is unable to share, how would he rate the effectiveness of those Russian interventions, as well as the UK response? Does he agree that they show that we must continue to support Ukraine in every way we can to undermine the dictator Vladimir Putin?”
“The Scottish National party celebrated the closure and demolition of Longannet coal power station in my constituency without having a plan for its future. The former First Minister pressed the button on the charges herself. What conversations do Ministers plan to have with the site owner, Scottish Power, about the future of the site, and what role might there be for the UK Government in bringing investment and jobs to my constituency?”
“I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Warrington South (Sarah Hall) on securing this important debate. I had not intended to intervene, but my hon. Friend raised issues similar to those in my constituency in respect of young boys diagnosed with Duchenne muscular dystrophy, who are having difficulty accessing the drug Givinostat in Scotland. I am aware that the Minister might not be able to respond immediately, but will he meet me to discuss access to that drug in Scotland, and how we can help other young people affected by a rare disease?”
“I thank my hon. and gallant Friend, and indeed all members of the Defence Committee, for an invaluable report. During his contribution, he mentioned one example of a soldier moving cross-border and that causing problems with NHS appointments. Does the Committee recognise that soldiers and veterans can be disadvantaged by difference in policy between the nations of the UK? How do we think the Government can best go about addressing those problems?”
“I agree with my hon. Friend about the need to do research. The podcast “We Have Ways of Making You Talk” gives a much better introduction to Paddy Mayne. Does my hon. Friend agree that we need to look at the rules of recognition for those serving in the special forces, and ensure that some of the difficulties that will arise in publicly recognising those very brave troops are taken into account?”
“While much of that might be outside the control of the Government, it is vital that our response is to enshrine in place the right foundations, built with confidence and commitment, for the future of young people and our country, because the two are indivisible. If we do not leave this place in a better condition for those who follow us, then all that we strive for is, after all, for naught.”
“Young people are not asking for mango sorbet and Malbec, but for respect and understanding, and that is what we should be giving them. Antisocial behaviour and crime are not the preserve of the young; alcohol and drug misuse is rising in people of older generations, not among younger people; and tolerance of others is much higher among younger people than among people my age and older, as everyone in this House will attest from our encounters on social media and our dealings with some constituents. As we enter the recess, we should remember that we are still very much in the early stages of this Parliament, and yet we have already seen unprecedented turmoil and change that is shaping our future.”
“If we are to make the future truly one for the next generation, we must support those young people to build that future. That firstly means stopping demonising young people, who have struggled with more once-in-a-lifetime crises by this stage of their lives than any other generation, from credit crunches and pandemics to political instability and uncertainty at home and around the world. They have seen services and support for them eradicated, chances to get on the housing ladder vanish, and secure long-term employment become a pipe dream, and all while wealth sits with the generations of their parents and grandparents. This Parliament must not continue the trend of giving only to the older generations. Without engaging and energising younger people, there will be no money left by the time people of my age hope to retire.”
“My second point follows from a consideration of that future: the imperative to invest in skills. We must invest in skills for the long term by working better with further education establishments, such as Fife college in my constituency, and building better links with businesses. Sadly, in Scotland that link with businesses is lacking, and a stalled skills agenda is failing our talented and ambitious young people. Businesses of all sizes in my constituency have told me that they are increasingly using, or considering using, City & Guilds or similar training modules in England, and not even bothering to have discussions with the Scottish Qualifications Authority, such is the long, laborious and bureaucratic process. The Scottish National party’s abject failure on skills will have long-term implications for young people across the country.”
“If this period is to be remembered by history as one of instability and global shifts, let it also be remembered as a time when we endeavoured to build a new foundation that helped future generations to succeed and build a better world. Our response to those threats must be to invest in our young people and their aspirations, opportunities and skills. Not only will necessary increases in defence spending support thousands of jobs, but as necessity is the mother of invention, the new conditions create an unmissable opportunity for investment in innovative engineering and high-tech skills that can be applied in other sectors. In my constituency, those opportunities are widespread, whether at the port of Rosyth, which is increasingly becoming a hub for renewables, or at the hoped for redevelopment of the Longannet generating station.”
“I wish briefly to cover three things in this debate. First, the world as we know it has changed drastically in the nine months since the general election. To our constituents, those threats can sometimes feel abstract and distant, but we know that it is our constituents who will feel the pain in their pockets, and it is probably those who have the least who will be rocked most by the destruction and chaos we see all around us. Some of those threats have meant that difficult decisions have had to be taken, including the reduction in overseas aid to fund necessary increases in defence spending over this Parliament and the next. I remain of the opinion that even those increases might not be enough to counter the new security threats that we face.”
“Dunfermline is Scotland’s newest city and as such a large number of homes are being built all the time. However, too often those large-scale housing developments are done without reference to local services, such as GPs, and without proper consultation with local people, partly due to failures in the Scottish SNP Government’s planning policy. What advice does the Minister have about how those issues might be overcome? Will he engage with the Scottish Government to ensure they are learning any lessons from the excellent changes being made in that part of the UK?”
“May I thank the Chancellor for her statement and welcome the increase in defence spending, which represents a huge opportunity for Scottish workers? I was delighted to have her visit Rosyth in my constituency recently. Will she work to ensure a continuous shipbuilding programme in this country to maximise the opportunities for Scottish workers? Does she agree that it is utterly shameful that those workers have been ignored by the SNP for the past 18 years? Also, will she confirm that this Labour Government will always value the role of shipbuilding for our economy and our national defence?”
“T4. The Prime Minister’s welcome announcement over the past couple of weeks of an increase in defence spending creates both an opportunity and a challenge for the Department, as well as for the whole skills system in this country. Will the Secretary of State please outline how she will work with the Ministry of Defence to ensure that gap is filled? In particular, how will she ensure that the Scottish Government in Edinburgh take proper action on defence skills, as they have failed to do over the past 17 years?”
“T4. As parliamentary chair of the Coalition on Secure Technology, I have raised several times in this House concerns over the prevalence of Chinese manufactured internet of things cellular modules. Will the procurement review unit carry out a risk assessment of the true risks posed by Chinese supplies of cellular modules in the UK’s critical national infrastructure, and will he meet me to discuss this important issue?”
“As we know, one of the best ways to grow employment in Scotland is through apprenticeships. A few weeks ago, this UK Labour Government announced changes to apprenticeships in England that will allow businesses to work more closely with colleges and other skills providers to ensure there is a job at the end of apprenticeships. In Scotland, meanwhile, all we see is stagnation in skills policy, which is reducing opportunities for young people in my constituency and across the country. Will the Minister make every effort to press the Scottish Government to properly reform apprenticeships in Scotland and give young people and others the opportunities they need and deserve?”
“I thank the Prime Minister for his statement, and for his stamina in all the meetings over the weekend and, not least, in coming to the House for an extra hour and a half—and counting—this afternoon to keep us informed. Like other Members from across the House, I took part in the trip to Ukraine for the third anniversary last week. Does he agree that while the cross-party consensus on Ukraine, including from the SNP, is welcome, the SNP Scottish Government must take action to ensure that businesses in Scotland benefit from the increase in defence spending and continue to contribute to the security of the United Kingdom and of our allies in Ukraine?”
“Does my hon. Friend agree that when this conflict ends, we must examine closely the potential use of chemical weapons by Vladimir Putin during this conflict, as he has previously used them in Syria and other conflicts? Some of us who were on the trip that has been discussed saw that at first hand in hospitals.”
“This is not just “Keep calm and carry on”; this is “Keep calm, win the present and build the future.” The Ukrainian people want peace—of course they do—but they will not accept peace at any price. We asked over and over again, “What message do you want us to deliver back to our country and our Parliament?” The answer was always this, something so simple and obvious that it is hard to believe it has to be restated: “Russia has conducted an unprovoked invasion of Ukraine—Russia is the aggressor; Ukraine the victim.” We have had 20 years of warnings, from the murder of Alexander Litvinenko in 2006 to the first invasions of Ukraine and the public poisonings in Salisbury, and then finally the full-scale invasion of our ally.”
“It might sound an unusual thing to say, but this graveside was not simply one of sorrow, nor just of pride, nor just of memory; it was one of defiance and resolve. That image encapsulates for me the emotions of all of the people of Ukraine. They have taken the punishment dished out by a criminal dictator-bully for three years. They have not only withstood the daily bombardments, but thrived underneath their air defence umbrella. In a position where every day represents a struggle for survival to the next, Ukraine has been able not only to fight and reach the next day, but to plan for a prosperous future. In health, education, technology, cyber-security, the scaling of innovation and in culture, the Ukrainian people are shaping their long-term future even as they take to shelters every night.”
“A pile of dark brown mud next to a hole in the ground; a hole framed by planks of wood covered tightly in smooth, matt-black sheeting; four rough wooden handles jammed in as the mud hardens around them, with invisible silver shovels buried beneath—a pile of mud and four shovels in the sharp, harsh, dry cold of Lviv: that is the image that I have had in my mind for every waking minute of every day since Saturday morning. It is the picture of a newly dug grave in the cemetery of heroes in Lviv, Ukraine, as mentioned earlier by my hon. Friend the Member for Southend West and Leigh (David Burton-Sampson). For me, that image encapsulated the four-day trip from which I and other MPs from across the House returned earlier this week.”
“The mission of all sides of this House is to maintain that unity and communicate that reality and to bring the public with us on a long-term journey that will be difficult. With the 100-year partnership agreement signed by this Government, we have the foundation of a long-term relationship with a country with which we share so much, and with which we are standing shoulder to shoulder. On that foundation we can build a lasting peace. I want to end with a quote by JFK. In the same speech in which he called for peace “not merely…in our time, but peace for all time” he said: “There is no single, simple key to this peace; no grand or magic formula… Genuine peace must be the product of many nations, the sum of many acts.” Ukraine has taken several of those many acts and the UK is one of the many nations.”
“I suspect that before long the Government may conclude that they must go even further or faster, or both. If they do so, they will have my full and total support. That is not to crave the spending; it is to accept the reality of the world we live in, not the world as we would wish it to be. While the public clearly support the increased spending on defence, it is incumbent on all of us in the House to ensure that the reality of the danger and threat that this country faces is brought home, as is the fact that this might mean even tougher decisions very soon. While a war in Ukraine might feel abstract, as I saw over the past few days, that war can very quickly come to these shores, and in a variety of ways.”
“I could not agree more. I grew up in Berlin during the cold war and could hear Russian artillery and helicopters practising on a live firing range, so that has always been present since I was very young. We must not misunderstand the gravity of this moment. Geopolitical stability and security will be the defining issue for this generation and this Parliament. It is incumbent on us to do whatever it takes to keep British people safe at home and abroad and to support our allies. That is why I fully welcome and endorse the decision this week by the Prime Minister on defence spending increases. However, as I argued in this House in December, 2.5% and even 3% should be seen as a floor for our defence spending, not the ceiling. This Government have already taken one difficult decision and there may well be more to take in the future.”
“Does the Minister agree that this announcement should not affect the support of this House and the UK for Ukraine, and will she work with our armed forces and our defence industries to do everything possible to support Ukrainian forces on the frontline?”
“This week, the UK Government announced positive changes to apprenticeships that will cut red tape and increase collaboration between businesses and skills providers, setting more young people on a path to successful careers. In Scotland, by contrast, the last two years have seen delays and freezes on modern apprenticeships, harming people in my constituency and across Scotland. Does the Leader of the House agree that the SNP should follow the lead set by this UK Labour Government and take radical action to support the next generation of the workforce?”
“US navy officials have reported increased Russian and Chinese patrols in the High North. Last week, the Danish navy announced plans to acquire three new Arctic patrol ships, and March will see one of the largest Exercise Joint Viking operations in NATO’s history. With these concerns in mind, will the Secretary of State confirm which UK assets will be involved in Joint Viking this year? What plans does he have to update the 2022 policy paper on the UK’s defence contribution in the High North?”
“In response to a number inquiries that I have had from constituents over the last couple of months, will the Minister say whether reforms to the Child Maintenance Service will include consideration of the paying parent’s capital assets and voluntary pension payments when calculating the rate at which unpaid payments should be made?”
“As someone who grew up in Warrington and who was friends with Tim Parry who was murdered by the IRA, I subsequently had to do public affairs engagement work in Northern Ireland, so I am well aware of some of the difficulties that can come from the outcome, shall we say, of some of the violence suffered in Northern Ireland. Does the Solicitor General agree that “A lawyer should not be identified personally with the cause for which they are arguing”? —[ Official Report, House of Lords, 15 June 2022; Vol. 822, c. 1597.] Those are not my words; they belong to the distinguished commercial barrister, the Conservative shadow Attorney General. Does the Solicitor General agree with me about those words?”
“Before Christmas, I received a lovely letter—as opposed to an email—from Maisie Fox, a six-year-old pupil at St John’s primary school in Rosyth. Maisie was very concerned about the safety of her walk and her route to school, as she was unable to use her scooter or bike while crossing the busy A985 in Rosyth. I accompanied Maisie on her walk to school a couple of weeks ago and, indeed, it was incredibly dangerous. Will the Leader of the House congratulate Maisie on being a young person with an interest in politics—something we should always encourage in young people—and do everything she can to work with the Scottish Government to ensure that roads are safer for routes to school?”
“I thank the Secretary of State for such a strong statement, which makes it clear to Vladimir Putin that this aggression will not be tolerated. Recently, Ministers were kind enough to answer a series of written questions from me on quick reaction alert, subsea cables and defence of the high north, all pointing to additional threats from Russian forces and the need for a strong response. With the strategic defence review well under way, how is the Secretary of State ensuring that it is flexible in dealing with those changing and evolving threats, and that we learn from Ukraine, and from the recent example of the Finnish ship in the Baltic sea?”
“Does the hon. and learned Gentleman agree that it is to the discredit of the Opposition that they do not even have a shadow Veterans Minister who could bring up the issues he is raising?”
“This Government have already shown their commitment to our armed forces by awarding the largest pay rise in over 20 years, tackling recruitment by removing outdated policies, and boosting retention through £8,000 payments to certain Army personnel and £30,000 to for some aircraft engineers. They are also doing more to support veterans. It was a pleasure to welcome the Veterans Minister to my constituency last week, where he visited Bravehound and Ghost Force K9, organisations run by veterans to support other veterans’ mental health through the walking and training of dogs.”
“Member for Spelthorne (Lincoln Jopp) did not support it. I hope that that is not the case. I should add that I did not expect to be discussing the difference between the powers and political structures of the United States Senate and those of this Parliament with the shadow Minister, but it was very interesting and enjoyable. I understand the need, in fact the duty, of His Majesty’s loyal Opposition to scrutinise legislation properly, but I hope that after today’s debate on the amendments, the House will speak with one voice in support of the Bill and there will be no need for Divisions.”
“I congratulate the new Government on introducing the Bill so early in their term. It was a pleasure to serve on the Committee, along with friends on both sides of the House, and to hear from the existing Service Complaints Ombudsman as well as from charities such as Poppy Scotland and the Royal British Legion. I thank the Clerks and Committee staff who helped and supported me, as a new Member serving for the first time on a Committee of that kind. It was particularly positive to hear the strong cross-party consensus in favour of the Bill, which was supported by both the shadow Minister, the right hon. Member for Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois), and the hon. and gallant Member for Epsom and Ewell (Helen Maguire), although, like my hon. Friend the Member for North Durham (Luke Akehurst), I feared that the hon.”
“My hon. Friend is entirely right. Housing issues are critical to ensuring that we recruit and retain the personnel we will require for the success that we want our armed forces to have.”
“I hope that we can maintain the positive tone of discussions on the Bill to date, and that we can speak with one voice this evening and pass this legislation without amendment.”
“New clause 2 does not take account of the fact that the power to tackle issues such as housing lies not with veterans commissioners, or even with the Scottish Government, but with local councils, which are even closer to communities. I know that the shadow Minister, the right hon. Member for Rayleigh and Wickford, abhors central control from a distant place, so I am sure that he will agree that seeking to control housing policy in Fife or Moray from London is not appropriate. I urge Members to reject new clause 2. As I said, the fact that the Government brought forward this legislation so early on and the other positive steps that have been taken to support our armed forces and veterans show the commitment of the Labour party and this Government to supporting both.”
“I was reassured by his response that “if the commissioner was looking at housing in a Scottish context, you would expect them to make recommendations to the Scottish Government.” –– [ Official Report, Armed Forces Commissioner Public Bill Committee, 10 December 2024; c. 68, Q108.] That is the kind of constructive scrutiny that I would like to see, and I feel that new clause 2 is heavy-handed in its dealing with the devolved Administrations. An annual report will be presented to this House; I am sure that MSP colleagues of all political parties, as well as Scottish MPs, will be quick to hold a Scottish Government of any political stripe to account when recommendations are made to them.”
“Given that I was the only Scottish Member on the Public Bill Committee, ensuring that this legislation is effective for my constituents is one of my key concerns. When I asked Mariette Hughes about this issue in Committee, she was incredibly practical and clearly focused on the need to solve problems with the devolved Administrations, rather than taking a heavy-handed approach. In my view, her approach is correct. She said that she would work “with the devolved Administrations…sit round the table and talk about whose job it is to take this forward, because we can all agree that this is what needs to happen for people.” –– [ Official Report, Armed Forces Commissioner Public Bill Committee, 10 December 2024; c. 6, Q7.] In Committee, I asked the Minister about housing, which has been discussed.”
“6, Q6.] Amendment 10 seeks to rush that process, and risks losing the good will within the ombudsman’s team. I come back to the importance of independence, and my belief that there must be a culture of independence from the beginning, without artificial deadlines or criteria being imposed. I know the Minister wants to move as quickly as possible with this legislation while ensuring its effectiveness, and I ask him to comment on the timescale, but I do not believe that the amendment is required. I turn to an issue that I raised on Second Reading and again in Committee, and which is mentioned in new clause 2: relationships with veterans commissioners and the devolved Administrations.”
“I am sure that the Minister, like other Members, wants to see the commissioner begin their new and expanded role as quickly as possible, but it is important that this be done fully and correctly. In Committee, I asked Mariette Hughes, the Service Complaints Ombudsman, how staff would cope with the additional powers that are being transferred. It was positive to hear that staff were excited about the new powers and believed them to be necessary; that is a sign that the legislation is both needed and framed correctly. On timescales, Mariette Hughes said that “there needs to be a significant scoping period to determine how many staff will be required and what the budget will look like.” –– [ Official Report, Armed Forces Commissioner Public Bill Committee, 10 December 2024; c.”