Graeme Downie
MP for Dunfermline and Dollar · Labour · United Kingdom
“Young people make a hugely positive contribution to our communities, but for months, sadly, we have seen physical assaults and antisocial behaviour at Dunfermline bus station, perpetrated by a small minority of young offenders.”
“It is something I have raised with the Department since the publication of the DIP. On future infrastructure capability, I will be slightly parochial and ask the Minister to respond to a couple of questions around submarine infrastructure when he is winding up.”
“I have repeatedly argued in this place that the United Kingdom should regard itself as already being in a sustained confrontation with the Russian state—not a conventional shooting war, but a prolonged campaign of hostile activity directed against our people, our infrastructure, our economy and our democratic institutions—and that raises…”
“Friend the Member for North East Derbyshire (Louise Sandher-Jones), said: “We cannot provide detail on how the MOD would respond to certain activities versus others as this would assist our adversaries.” Rather than burden the Department with a load of additional written questions, can I ask the Minister some very specific questions?”
“That includes the improvements in pay and support for serving personnel and their families and in housing, which is leading to increases in recruitment, retention and morale. That is all a vital part of rearmament and deterrence, showing our adversaries that our armed forces are ready to fight tonight, as was mentioned earlier.”
“We are not alone, and for anyone who wants to track this activity across Europe, Emma Burrows from AP News has a fantastic website with up-to-date information. At what point do Governments say enough is enough, and at what point, crucially, do they tell the British people that a line has been crossed?”
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“We are already doing some really good work with the Equality and Human Rights Commission on uniformed protective services and behaviours. That is the sort of work I see expanding with this, and with the devolved Administrations we just sit round the table and talk about whose job it is to take this forward, because we can all agree that this is what needs to happen for people.”
“Q Lastly, how do you envisage the new role working with the devolved Administrations? As a Scottish MP, I am thinking particularly of Scotland. How will the role interact with the veterans commissioners in place at the moment, and do you see any benefits from this role compared with the existing one? Mariette Hughes: Absolutely. It is all about collaborative working. There will certainly be areas where the commissioner cannot reach in and touch—or have control over—the provisions for service personnel, but it is about maintaining those good relationships. We are all trying to do the best for people, so it is about ensuring that we have those sensible conversations and everyone understands one another’s remits, and that we are able to bring issues to the fore and talk about them as we go.”
“The middle section of that process is so overwhelmed at the moment that people are getting standard messages to say, “We are not able to progress your complaint on the current timelines.” That in itself would be a reason for somebody to be allowed to go to the ombudsman, but they will already have been through an extensive paperwork process to try to pursue their individual complaint before they get to the stage where the commissioner is reviewing the process. It is getting the balance of expectation right for individuals who are serving and their family members of whether this is likely to be effective and get faster, or whether thematic reviews would be a better place to put their efforts if they have a broader based complaint such as an accommodation issue.”
“I was surprised by the focus groups: we thought that we would collect information about issues that people were likely to want to raise with the commissioner if their scope were broadened, but what people wanted to talk about was how safe they would feel in the process—would they be prepared to raise something, would they be able to do it jointly as the commissioner just raised, would family members feel that they were able to raise concerns and would it affect their person’s career progression or ability to continue to make progress? There is a high level of distrust in certain areas of current service complaints, for example service-to-type complaints, where people are making accommodation complaints. At the moment, there is already a three-stage process that has to be closed before someone is able to approach the ombudsman.”
“Establishing really clearly whether somebody can raise a complaint or a concern—three terms are being used, “complaint”, “concern” and “issue”—and getting clarity over who is allowed to do what is extremely important, because otherwise it will unduly raise people’s expectations that they will be able to follow something through in a formal process, when what they are being invited to do is offer additional information for a thematic review. We need absolute clarity in the way that is communicated to the armed forces community—who has right to a complaint versus who is able to raise a concern or issue more broadly. The only other thing I would mention is that the process will be everything.”
“I understand that the Government intend to publish regulations when the Bill passes from the Commons to the Lords, but understanding what a “relevant family member” is has been a really disputed point in the armed forces community. For example, the bereaved parents of people who have lost their service person often feel that they are not included in the world of the armed forces community, and it is the same for the siblings of those who are bereaved. The families of non-UK personnel who are not resident in the UK also often feel outside the environment. The issue is about understanding who a relevant family member is, and being open to the fact that that person could raise relevant information.”
“From the focus groups and the work you have done with your members, is there a feeling that that is the correct terminology? Will that capture everything that they feel the commissioner needs to be involved in, or is there any work that can be done to broaden or tighten some of those definitions? Angela Kitching: I will do my best with that technical question. I think welfare is a well understood term in the armed forces community. Calling out particular experiences of discrimination, bullying and harassment is useful, because that is not held to be a welfare issue; it is held to be an employment and discrimination issue. On that one, that feels appropriate. The second part that you raised was about a relevant family member. That really does need significant further exploration in Committee, and further definition.”
“Q I want to raise two points, and the first is mostly for Angela, from the issues you have been discussing in the focus groups. Do you feel that the terminology in clause 4 on general service welfare is appropriate and suitable for purpose? First of all, do you feel that the term “general service welfare” itself covers the correct areas? Similarly, in subsection (2) of new section 340IA, which the Bill will insert into the Armed Forces Act 2006, do we feel that words such as “may materially affect” welfare are the correct terminology? Do we feel that is sufficient? In subsection (3) of that new section, do we feel that a “relevant family member” is correctly drawn? Further down, subsection (7) of the new section states that the Secretary of State will give the commissioner “reasonable assistance”.”
“Will you feel that your concerns are being dismissed or that you need to get together many more people to make a similar complaint? There will need to be a high degree of transparency about the decision-making in order for that to feel appropriate.”
“Q Related to that is new section 340IA in clause 4(2), which states: “in the Commissioner’s opinion…may materially affect the welfare”. Is the concern that that word choice creates the possibility almost of a bottleneck being artificially created? Angela Kitching : There is a very broad invitation in new section 340IA in clause 4(3), which states: “The Commissioner must consider any request made by a person subject to service law or a relevant family member to carry out an investigation under this section.” That is a very broad funnel, which is helpful, but the question of how material the impact is on the individual could be the point at which it narrows. It is the question of the clarity of the process. If yours is not the issue that is taken forward from an individual complaint into a thematic review, how will you feel about that?”
“We would certainly encourage that co-ordination between the two agencies, particularly around data and evidence sharing—not just with the veterans commissioners, but other agencies such as the Office for Veterans’ Affairs, the defence transition services and organisations in the charitable sector. It is important that the work of commissioners is communicated and integrated as clearly as possible with other veterans agencies. That builds on the ombudsman’s point that those key relationships should be built and the right thematic reviews carried out.”
“Q As I mentioned the ombudsman, can I ask how you think the Bill will work with the existing veterans commissioners, especially in Scotland, and how can we make sure this is applied equally across different parts of the United Kingdom? Ted Arnold: To build on the RBL’s point in its briefing, it is vital that the commissioner is seen as independent. There is certainly a lot they can draw on from the experience of those independent veterans commissioners throughout Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland—and, it is hoped, soon in England too. They bring valuable knowledge and insight and act as a voice for veterans in the entire armed forces community throughout the UK.”
“The reason we took the decision as an army was predominantly around the lack of spousal employment opportunities in Germany, to be brutally frank. Yes, there was a change in the geostrategic landscape, but we could not get enough young men—particularly men—to want to serve in Germany because it was going to impact on dual-income families. Spousal employment and opportunities and looking at family conditions would be an area I hope we could unpack in a big way.”
“We had a table like this one, with 25 members of the Special Boat Service sitting around it, and the question I posed to them was, “Who is going to be here in five years?” Not one hand went up, so I said, “That’s shocking. Why?” The reasons were family-based: time away from Christmases, accommodation standards and the inability to get spousal employment. The issues that matter are focused on spouses. If we have a commissioner who focuses on one area to make a difference, that should be spousal employment. I remember, about 10 years ago, taking the decision to bring the Army out of Germany, and selling it to the then Secretary of State, Phil Hammond, as a savings measure, because it was a lot cheaper to have the UK Army based in the UK—for the first time in 300 years.”
“I am very proud of my service. People say, “What would have made you leave early?” I would answer, “Had the services ever compromised on their values and standards.” But I do think there are some cultural areas of shame in the armed forces, and how better we can tackle some of those issues would be another area that the commissioner would certainly wish to look at relatively early in their tenure. Lt General Sir Nicholas Pope: I will go back to Haythornthwaite to answer the question. One of the pieces of evidence that we put in the report was about how over time the role of the family has changed, and how family conditions drive individual aspects. I was struck when I took Rick down to visit some of the Blades in Poole.”
“I do worry that we have bits looking at veterans and bits looking at servicepeople and their families, working slightly in isolation. I come back to the point about the continuum: for veterans, setting the conditions in service for success outside is absolutely critical. In terms of themes and areas that the commissioner might wish to focus on, there are some obvious ones, such as the issue of service accommodation. In defence, during my time, we started off with something called the future accommodation model, which then became the new accommodation model. What is the current term? Lt General Sir Nicholas Pope: Accommodation offer. Lt General Sir Andrew Gregory: Trying to get something that meets the aspirations of modern servicemen and women and their families has proven quite difficult. So I think that will be an area.”
“Q First, I thank SSAFA for the work it does in Fife. The work it has done, when I was a councillor and on an ongoing basis, has been incredible. To pick up on something you mentioned earlier, SSAFA has been around for a very long time, so what do you see as some of the thematic issues that have existed with forces personnel over the years? Where do you think the commissioner should be looking first? Are there two or three things from those thematic areas that they could look at? Lt General Sir Andrew Gregory: I will come to your question. There is an interesting discussion going on. The Minister for Veterans and People, Al Carns, has commissioned Operation Valour, which is great—both Nick and I have engaged with that—to look at how better we can support veterans.”
“You need someone who is there to say, “Right, I am going to challenge you,” which the commissioner must do, but equally to say, “I am going to support you, because we are all collectively on a journey to make this part of society and employment better.” Lt General Sir Nicholas Pope: Can I add a little codicil to that?”
“Q On your point about shame factors around the Armed Forces in the past, do you see the role of the commissioner as being essentially proactive and preventive in heading those off? Lt General Sir Andrew Gregory: That is a great question. I hope the commissioner would, in that space, want to work to support the chain of command. I think the chain of command is trying desperately to get it right— I would say that of when I served. Nobody likes the awful headlines we have had over suicides. Obviously the biggest issue ever was Deepcut, but there have been plenty of examples where those of us who are part of the military community have hung our heads in shame, as we should have, because that is not how young people should be treated. The chain of command is not complacent; it is doing its best.”
“Q I am conscious of the time. Could you answer that question, and include the role that you feel your charities would have with the commissioner in heading off some of those issues on a more practical, day-to-day basis? Lt General Sir Nicholas Pope: I will start with the codicil, if I may, which goes back to my beaten record about context. The suicide report is a good example. The report on suicide in the Armed Forces community said that in every sector with young men aged 18 to 24, the Armed Forces were better than UK society. The headline in the paper at the weekend said that young men in the Army aged 18 to 24 are at equal risk as the population to suicide or damage. The commissioner needs the ability to say what it is about the service that is a prophylactic activity. One is too many, but by golly we are doing well.”
“Q You mentioned the issues you sometimes have with this highly mobile population. Do you see the commissioner helping or playing a role in some of those issues? In Scotland, we have recently seen how the moving of forces personnel has caused issues with healthcare and education. Is that something where you could imagine the commissioner playing a role? Abby Dryden: I would hope so. The arrangements in the devolved nations, particularly in my experience of healthcare, are different, and it is about being conversant and fully aware of how it works in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. There is a call for a nuanced and different understanding that supports some of the issues that present when personnel move to another devolved nation or another area of the United Kingdom.”
“As part of renewing the relationship between Parliament and the Ministry of Defence, we believe that enhancing parliamentary scrutiny of what the Ministry of Defence does will produce better outcomes both strategically and for our people, so that we will be able to respond to those recommendations from the Armed Forces Commissioner, HCDC and other bodies that report on the welfare needs of our people.”
“When we were drafting the legislation, we tried to ensure that where a Secretary of State who has not been involved with the origin of the Armed Forces Commissioner may be in post, they cannot put in place any obstacles to the proper scrutiny of the welfare needs of armed forces personnel and their people. The expectation is that the Ministry of Defence would respond to those recommendations; what we would need to establish informally, which does not require primary legislation, are the methods for tracking the recommendations. Certainly, as a new Government, we are very aware that many of the recommendations made by the Defence Committee, for instance, to Government over the past decade sometimes have not even been responded to or had information provided back.”
“Q Minister, you mentioned ensuring that issues are handled and dealt with, and you said that previously issues had fallen away and not been taken up by the MOD. Would that not make it more sensible to have a duty on the face of the Bill for the MOD to respond to commissioner reports to ensure that action can be taken? Could you comment a little on that? Luke Pollard: It is quite normal in legislation of this type for there not to be provision in primary legislation. It is certainly the intent of the Secretary of State and me to ensure that provision is given to that coming back, but I am aware of an amendment tabled by the Liberal Democrats in a similar way. I am happy taking that issue and having a discussion about what we can do to ensure that sufficient attention is given to any recommendations.”
“Clearly, given the quite considerable breadth of issues that fall under a general service welfare matter, quite a lot could be in there. I am grateful to colleagues for raising particular concerns, such as housing and SEND. There is a lot that could feature. We have drawn the legislation purposefully so that that decision is made by the commissioner; it is not made by Government Ministers directing where it should be. It is for the commissioner to establish those procedures, and I would expect the first commissioner to do that.”
“Certainly, for a commissioner of this type, the challenge procedure would be via judicial review, which would be similar for other commissioners of this style if there was a serious challenge. We are not trying to set an expectation that the commissioner will be able to undertake a thematic investigation immediately into every major topic. We have seen from the German model that the annual report may contain a large number of items or areas where they have received a form of representation—the German model calls it a petition, which does not quite work in the English translation—or where someone has written to the commissioner to raise a concern that is then used as a way of inputting feedback for the commissioner to make a decision on what to analyse.”
“Q If someone is dissatisfied with the outcome that they have received from the commissioner, is there a way they can appeal it? I think we covered this earlier with other witnesses, when I expressed concern about the decision on whether someone is materially affected being in the hands of the commissioner. What if there is a situation in which someone does not feel that their case has been taken up or that their issue has not been raised? Is there any kind of redress for them to go beyond that and determine why that is the case or to complain in any way? Luke Pollard: The legislation has been drawn so that the decisions on what issues to take up—effectively which priority to look at and which sequencing issue will be looked at, certainly on the thematic side—are decisions for the commissioner to be informed by.”
“In those circumstances, if the commissioner was looking at housing in a Scottish context, you would expect them to make recommendations to the Scottish Government. I would expect them to have a dialogue with the Scottish Government to be able to deliver understanding, but the legislation grips on the Westminster Government, because defence is a reserved matter in that respect.”
“In those circumstances, we have chosen not to require those devolved Administrations to report or respond in the same way as we do for the Ministry of Defence to be able to lay the report, but we are using the same kind of principles that SCOAF, who spoke earlier, has, which is effectively an agreement that there will be a conversation with the devolved Administrations on those matters. I expect a constructive relationship, as similar roles have with devolved Administrations, but we have not specified a requirement for them to report back or to respond to the commissioner’s report. What we are aware of, for instance, are issues around service housing at RAF Lossiemouth. That would be the responsibility of the local council in Scotland, as well as the Scottish Government.”
“Q Finally, I have a question, which I raised on Second Reading, about the relationship with the devolved Administrations where there are devolved areas such as health. How do you envisage the commissioner working with the devolved Administrations in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and across England? Luke Pollard: Defence is a reserved matter. It is appropriate that this legislation legislates for all the United Kingdom, but we are aware that some of the welfare matters are devolved in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Indeed, across the overseas territories—with the exception of Gibraltar, which has a different legislative set-up from the other OTs—they might be the responsibility of a non-Westminster Administration.”
“In his statement, the Foreign Secretary referred to HTS co-operating with the international community on the monitoring of chemical weapons. Given the situation on the ground in Syria and the ongoing chaos, what confidence does he have that there is the capacity for HTS to conduct that work? Is there anything the UK Government can do to support the capacity in the region to keep those weapons safe?”
“T8. The previous Government left a mess of £22 billion for us to clean up following their short-term decisions and absolute lack of investment in services. This Government are taking a different approach, with long-term investment for our economic success. Will the Chancellor work with me to find the £3 million of long-term investment in the port of Rosyth that is required to bring back a ferry between Rosyth and Dunkirk? That would bring 51,000 passengers a year to Scotland and take 8.1 million km of freight traffic off the road, and it has the support of large local employers such as Mowi and Amazon.”
“T7. Given the upcoming audit into the UK’s relationship with China, how does the Foreign Secretary plan to strike a balance between economic growth and growing security concerns about China’s dominance in critical national infrastructure and Chinese-made IoT modules?”
“Scotland’s history is intertwined with our coastal communities. From shipbuilding on the Clyde to fishing off Peterhead and Fraserburgh, these areas helped fuel the UK’s growth as a global power. Closer to my home, the Forth estuary has a proud industrial legacy. Longannet power station, near Kincardine, once powered UK industry and, to this day, the Babcock dockyard in Rosyth plays a pivotal role in naval shipbuilding. The Forth remains an active and busy waterway, with tankers and barges constantly on the move. None the less, in common with other areas, the decline in industry in the Forth is obvious. In some places, industry has been partially replaced by tourism, with 9 million visitors coming to Fife last year and contributing £570 million to the local economy.”
“The situation has not been aided over the years by SNP cuts to local council budgets, which have delayed upgrades to critical infrastructure, including roads, paths, play parks and other local facilities. However, our coastal communities are not just scenic backdrops but economic powerhouses, cultural treasures and key players in our green future. They need our continued support and investment. In August this year, the Prime Minister said that our coastal communities are the lifeblood of Britain’s maritime economy. From supporting international trade to driving innovation in renewable energy, these areas must be at the heart of our plans to build a stronger, greener, and more prosperous future for the UK.”
“I could not agree more. I had the pleasure of being in Belfast just a couple of weeks ago for a family occasion. I was not able to take the ferry on that short trip—sadly, I had to fly—but I could not agree more with the hon. Gentleman’s point. For coastal communities in my constituency, such as Kincardine, Culross and Torryburn, tourism is indeed a welcome industry, with the Fife coastal path and the Pilgrim Way welcoming thousands of people a year to enjoy the beautiful Fife coastline. Across Scotland in 2022, marine and coastal tourism was worth £633 million, providing a total of 31,000 jobs. However, although tourism is welcomed by such communities, it can bring difficulties as well. Villages that were never designed to deal with hundreds or thousands of visitors sometimes feel swamped, with locals understandably resentful.”
“The national wealth fund announced by the Chancellor of the Exchequer is a potentially transformative opportunity for our coastal communities, with at least £5.8 billion of the NWF’s capital focused on sectors such as ports, green hydrogen, carbon capture, gigafactories and green steel.”
“Once again, I could not agree more. My hon. Friend has the pleasure of representing one of the most beautiful parts of the world, and I have been able to spend a bit of time there. He is absolutely correct about the challenges that our coastal communities face, and programmes such as Great British Energy have huge potential for green jobs. We must always make sure that the transition is carried out with sensitivity and in partnership with communities wherever we can. The Prime Minister is someone with whom I would always choose to agree, and I could not agree more with his views on coastal communities and the maritime economy.”
“While the SNP continues to delay and make excuses at its end, this Labour Government have the opportunity to jump-start this process.”
“I have spoken to major employers in the constituency, including Amazon and Mowi, which have both said that they would welcome this ferry link as it would help their contribution to the local economy. Mowi plays a key part in the Scotland Office’s Brand Scotland efforts by promoting and selling Scottish salmon to the world. There are other hurdles that would need to be overcome in order to finalise bringing the service back to Rosyth, including addressing the failure of the SNP Scottish Government to amend the necessary legislation that would allow border control at Grangemouth to be used for Rosyth for certain freight. There is also the matter of the delay by the Scottish Government in confirming Transport Scotland funding for the waterborne freight grant.”
“It is estimated that a direct ferry link would carry 51,000 passengers per year, rising to 79,000, and bring an additional £11.5 million spend to the Scottish economy each year. On freight, it is estimated that the route would begin by carrying 22,000 freight units per year, taking 8.2 million km of freight traffic off UK roads, with a corresponding reduction in carbon emissions. The kind of increased passenger and freight links that I want to see in Rosyth would revitalise the economy not only in my constituency but across Fife more broadly and would support the Government’s net zero ambitions while underpinning the Scotland Office’s plans for Brand Scotland, selling Scotland to the world.”
“Never mind £5.8 billion, it could take as little as a £3 million investment in Rosyth to bring back a regular passenger and freight service between Scotland and mainland Europe, but time is of the essence if it is to be fully realised. With £3 million of funding, we could get a jump-start on all of this as soon as spring 2025. This Government have said that they want to move quickly with investments that deliver. To my mind, there is no better example of that than getting a passenger and freight ferry back up and running between Scotland and mainland Europe, with Rosyth perfectly positioned for the service. The infrastructure needed is not extensive. All that is needed is improvement of some of the access roads, space for new security checks and the installation of power and associated works.”
“I believe, as many of my constituents do, that now is the time to bring this project back. To that end, I have held several discussions with those co-ordinating these efforts, as well as with DFDS Ferries, which has said that it would like to bring the service back as soon as spring 2025, but between Rosyth and Dunkirk instead. Additional investment in the port of Dunkirk, including on facilities and additional upgrading of freight and rail, makes this an optimal moment to bring back this service from Scotland to Europe. The facilities at Dunkirk are ready and the national wealth fund would appear to be the ideal opportunity for this Government to take the lead on developing the facilities at Rosyth that are needed to make that happen.”
“The green freeport offers exciting opportunities up and down the Forth estuary on both sides, with plans for Rosyth including additional freight and passenger transport and improved rail link options, all of which take freight off the roads while at the same time providing new jobs and helping us on the pathway to achieving net zero. Over the longer-term trend, the Scottish marine economy contracted by 14% between 2013 and 2022, a shocking decline for which both the SNP and Tory Governments must carry the can. We must do more to support our coastal economy, and there is one specific measure on which I would like to focus in the remainder of my time. Between 2002 and 2018, there was a direct ferry line from Rosyth to Zeebrugge operating as a passenger and freight service, and latterly as a freight-only service.”
“In addition, the port of Rosyth works with oil and gas companies for the import and export of vital industrial components, and when I was near the port recently, I could also see turbine blades and other components for renewable energy sitting on the dockside—a sign of the future, hopefully, for my constituency. The Rosyth waterfront, currently being cleaned up by the Scarborough Muir Group, was once home to a 250,000-tonne capacity concrete tank and 5,000-tonne steel tanks, all used to fuel the fleet during world war two. The development of the site offers a further exciting glimpse into the possible future of the Fife coast, given the required sustained investment.”
“I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. Given the additional co-operation we are seeing between the UK and Scottish Governments, with the UK Labour Government in power and resetting that relationship, there will absolutely be opportunities to work together for the benefit of all parts of the United Kingdom on energy. In 2022, passenger and freight water transport was worth £250 million to the Scottish economy and supported 1,600 jobs. The port of Rosyth in my constituency currently handles 600,000 tonnes of bulk cargo, ranging across a variety of incomes, including road salt, which has been much needed in the past week. It was definitely required in Fife, as I found out on my trip to the airport earlier this week.”
“Whether it is restoring the Rosyth ferry, addressing infrastructure challenges or unlocking the potential of initiatives such as the green freeports, now is the time to act. By working together, we can ensure that our coastal communities thrive for generations to come.”
“Friend to be able to make any commitments this evening, and I certainly do not expect him to speak on behalf of the Treasury. However, it is critical that the Government deliver for Scotland in a visible and meaningful way as quickly as possible, by progressing projects that further Brand Scotland, which is a fantastic policy programme that sells Scotland to the world, benefiting people across my constituency and across Scotland. What actions are the Scotland Office taking to bring the correct partners around the table to make the Rosyth to Dunkirk ferry a possibility as quickly as possible, so that the option of bringing it back in 2025 can at least be seriously explored?”
“The hon. Gentleman is right that I should pay tribute to my predecessor, Douglas Chapman, who did much to champion this cause. My point is that we can do this in the current situation, and that is what we should be doing as quickly as possible. This debate is about how to get investment back into our coastal communities, and what better opportunity than a passenger and freight link between Rosyth and central Europe? As I discussed with my hon. Friend on the Front Bench prior to this evening’s debate, I wrote to the Chancellor of the Exchequer at the start of October, but I received a reply only very recently, and I suspect only because this debate was on the Order Paper. This is disappointing, particularly given the small amount of money and the deadline to make this project a reality in 2025. Of course, I do not expect my hon.”
“What was clear throughout the Prime Minister’s statement was the need for defence collaboration across the world, as we live in a much more unstable global situation. In his discussions with the Australian leadership, was he able to recommit the UK to AUKUS? Can he give us an update on the next steps, please?”