Rebecca Paul
MP for Reigate · Conservative · United Kingdom
“Britain’s steel industry is not competitive, because of high energy costs and excessive red tape, but instead of addressing the root causes, this Labour Government revert back to their default solution of nationalisation. Why are this Government so keen to take us back to the 1970s?”
“The previous Secretary of State, the right hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds), said that the Government would seek to find a buyer for British Steel, and several parties have expressed interest. Are discussions ongoing with those parties, and if not, why not?”
“I recently invited residents to vote for their favourite local businesses in my constituency. Will the Leader of the House join me in congratulating MLP Wealth Management in Banstead, which won best overall small business; the Chapel in Reigate, which won best independent café; Murray Designs in Reigate, which won best independent shop; a…”
“The Secretary of State will know that e-bikes do not require insurance, but we are seeing some pedestrians suffer catastrophic injuries due to the additional weight of these bikes compared with a normal bike. Is she giving any consideration to reviewing the rules on this issue?”
“I thank the hon. Member for Tooting (Dr Allin-Khan) for securing the debate. This is a really important topic, and I do not think there has been enough focus on it in the last few years. Her speech was very powerful, and the hon.”
“The problem was not down to their lack of commitment or compassion; it was down to a system that is operating without enough physical space to meet the excessive demand placed upon it. The previous Secretary of State, the right hon.”
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“I will not, because of the time—we all have lots of questions for the Minister that we want to get through. The statutory override was due to end in 2026, but the Government have decided to extend that accounting trick for another two years. I cannot emphasise enough to the Minister that we are on the brink of a financial disaster in local government. Accounting fudges only delay the inevitable and make the problem even worse—and it will not just be SEND services impacted when local authorities are issuing section 114 notices; it will be all local authority services. Before I put some questions to the Minister on her proposed changes to the SEND system, I want to address some of the issues raised about Surrey county council specifically.”
“Many of those women genuinely will not have realised how far along they are, due to implantation bleeding being mistaken for their last period, and on top of all of this, some of the babies will be alive on delivery. We in this place need to get away from this terrible habit of only considering issues through a middle-class lens. What about women who are being sexually exploited and trafficked? What about teenage girls who do not want their parents to find out that they are pregnant?”
“However, since that scheme was introduced—according to Jonathan Lord, who was medical director of Marie Stopes at the time—four women have appeared in court on similar charges within an eight-month period. Criminalisation of abortion after 24 weeks is not the problem; the pills-by-post scheme is. If new clause 1 passes while the pills-by-post scheme remains in place, here is what will happen. More women will attempt late-term abortions at home using abortion pills acquired over the phone, and some of those women will be harmed. Many of them will not have realised that they are actually going to deliver something that looks like a baby, not just some blood clots—that is going to cause huge trauma for them.”
“If we want to protect women from knowingly or unknowingly acquiring abortion pills after 24 weeks of pregnancy and inducing an abortion at home, we must put an end to the situation in which those pills can be acquired without a face-to-face consultation at which gestational age verification by medical professionals can take place. These drugs are dangerous if not used in the right way, as we saw when Stuart Worby spiked a pregnant woman’s drink with them, resulting in the miscarriage of her 15-week-old baby. Make no mistake: the pills-by-post scheme enabled that evil man and his female accomplice to commit that crime. It is also important to note that prior to the pills-by-post scheme, only three women had been convicted for an illegal abortion over the past 160 years, demonstrating the effectiveness of the safeguard.”
“This is a terrible case that harshly demonstrates the flaws with the current process, but the issue here is not the criminalisation of abortion after 24 weeks; it is the fact that Carla Foster was given the pills without checking how far along she was in the first place. She was failed by people here in Parliament who voted to allow those pills to be sent out by mail during lockdown without an in-person consultation. That was an irresponsible decision; and one that might have been forgiven in the light of a global pandemic if it had remained temporary. However, in March 2022 the scheme was made permanent.”
“We protect them from trying to perform an abortion at home that is unsafe for them, and from coercive partners and family members who may push them to end late-term pregnancies. I have great respect for the hon. Member for Gower (Tonia Antoniazzi), who has tabled new clause 1. We share many of the same objectives on other topics, but in this case I think she is trying to solve a very real issue—the increased number of prosecutions—with the wrong solution. These amendments are driven by the case of Carla Foster, among others. Carla Foster is a mum who was prosecuted under UK law for carrying out an illegal abortion in May 2020, during the covid pandemic. She carried out the abortion at 32 to 34 weeks of pregnancy after receiving the relevant drugs through the pills-by-post scheme introduced during lockdown.”
“I rise to speak against new clauses 1 and 20, and in support of new clause 106, tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham (Dr Johnson). First, it is important for me to say that I fully support women’s reproductive rights. I think that we generally get the balance right here in the UK, and protecting that is a hill I would die on. However, I am disturbed by new clauses 1 and 20, which would decriminalise abortion up to birth. If they become law, fully developed babies up to term could be aborted by a woman with no consequences. The reason we criminalise late-term abortion is not about punishment; it is about protection. By providing a deterrent to such actions, we protect women.”
“T5. It has been estimated, and reported, that billions-worth of unspent community infrastructure levy may be available at local authority level for investment in critical infrastructure. Will the Minister ensure that the money is invested in roads and drainage, so it can deliver the improvements that our residents deserve?”
“As of 1 May this year, there were seven biological males in HMP Downview, a women’s prison in my constituency. Can the Secretary of State confirm when they will be moved out?”
“Just as many households have struggled with high energy bills and inflation, so too have pubs, which are still feeling the residual effects of lockdowns during the pandemic and the change in consumer behaviour that came with them. They now face increased employer national insurance contributions and business rates on top of everything else.”
“I am grateful to have the time to debate Government community funding and support for local pubs. We are fortunate to have so many amazing pubs in Reigate, Redhill, Banstead and our villages, and they are far more than just a place to have a pint. They are the heart and soul of our towns and villages, bringing people together and enriching daily life. They provide jobs and a sense of community, and they even support our local farmers and producers by selling their goods. Sadly, we have lost many pubs in recent years, with ever-increasing costs and rising taxes pushing them to closure. Every loss is felt in the community, diminishing social cohesion and shrinking our local economy. Pubs contributed more than £34.4 billion to the UK economy in 2024 and paid more than £17.4 billion in tax, despite the tight margins they operate on.”
“I agree with the hon. Member. It is really important that we support our pubs. We cannot continue the approach of squeezing them until the pips squeak. We will lose them, and once we do, we will never get them back.”
“It is now accessible to everyone, including young adults with special needs who visit with YMCA East Surrey. Every bit of profit the Garibaldi makes gets ploughed back into things that benefit the community. It is there for the benefit of Redhill residents, not for any other reason, and it is extremely good at what it does. That is incredibly clear whenever I visit. People from all walks of life are sitting side by side with friends and neighbours enjoying a chat and a drink, all part of making the Garibaldi the special place that it is.”
“I thank the hon. Lady for that contribution. I would welcome any clarity from the Minister about that. In Redhill, we have an amazing pub called the Garibaldi, which is a community pub—a not-for-profit pub—that gives back to the community in so many ways. On walking in, you feel the warmth straightaway from Shiv, Juliette and the other volunteers, who are always there to give a welcome with a smile. There is always something going on: quizzes, karaoke, Bhunnys street food—even a book club. My personal favourites are the forces fry-ups for veterans on a Saturday morning—sometimes I go along to help serve the tea, coffee and toast; I normally do it quite badly—and the music bingo. Out back, there is the community garden, which has been transformed with the help of the Garibaldi gardening group volunteers.”
“The Garibaldi is doing a sterling job of trying to raise the money itself, as I am sure many other groups around the country are doing, but it would be useful to know if there is any likelihood of new funding on the horizon that it could apply for to supplement its efforts. The Garibaldi is such an important part of Redhill—we cannot imagine Redhill without it—so I would be most grateful for any advice and support from the Minister on how we can secure it for future generations.”
“It has awarded more than £135 million to 409 projects across the UK, including several community pubs. Sadly, however, the fund is no longer available. The new Government have announced their intention to introduce a new right to buy for important community assets. This will no doubt bring many benefits and help to preserve valued community buildings and spaces. It will empower communities to save much-loved pubs and community halls, rather than just having to accept their loss. However, in order for groups to utilise this to the full, I ask the Minister whether they have any plans to introduce a fund to support the purchase of valuable community assets by the community.”
“I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. Absolutely, those things apply to clubs and to any premises where we might listen to live music —they apply to so many places. I will focus on pubs, but I hope that we will have many other debates on all those other things. The Garibaldi has stood on Mill Street for 150 years. It has survived two world wars, multiple recessions and two global pandemics. It has seen Redhill transform around it into the modern, bustling town it is today, but it is now at risk if the funds cannot be raised to buy the building. Rather ironically, the pub is so much more than bricks and mortar, but it needs to buy the bricks and mortar if it is to survive. In previous years, the community ownership fund has provided a great opportunity for community groups to acquire community buildings.”
“Obviously I do not know the details of that specific case, but I agree that we all have a collective responsibility to look after these important community assets. Before I bring my comments to a close, I would like to pay tribute to some other fantastic pubs in my constituency. I have quite a lot of them.”
“I, too, would be interested in the Minister’s response to that question. I recently ran a campaign to find out which pubs were my constituents’ favourites, with the aim of reminding them of the pubs on their doorstep and the importance of supporting their local. The response has been phenomenal. It is clear that our pubs mean a lot to local people in Reigate, Redhill, Banstead and our villages, and I am pleased to say that the results are now in. I am sure the Minister is on the edge of his seat wanting to know. Before I put him out of his misery, I want to let him know that he is very welcome indeed—as is anyone here this evening—to visit for a pint. The winner of best food and drink pub and best pub garden is the Well House Inn, a pub in Mugswell that I know very well.”
“It is indeed impressive what the pub in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency is doing, and I completely agree that pubs are so much more than just places where we buy food and drink. Any of us that have pubs like those in our constituency are very fortunate. Going back to the Well House Inn, the amazing beer garden there is home to St Margaret’s well, which is reputedly mentioned in the Domesday Book. Those who are lucky may even catch sight of the resident ghost, Harry the monk, while enjoying a quiet pint of ale. The winner of best family pub is the Sportsman in Mogador, another excellent local pub. It was originally a hunting lodge for Henry VIII and is surrounded by the most beautiful heathland. Local residents very much enjoy a hike across the countryside to it with their dogs before enjoying a pint.”
“I am sure from my speech that Members will understand why it is so special, and why so many residents have voted for it, so I will not wax lyrical any further, but I hope the Minister will support me, the volunteers and local residents in trying to save this gem for future generations. Again, I reiterate my invitation: he should pay a visit when he gets a break in his busy schedule. I would love to take him on a pub crawl.”
“The hon. Member makes me feel slightly less guilty for reeling off all the pubs in my constituency; now I am not alone in advertising all those amazing pubs. I absolutely encourage his constituents to vote in that competition, and to let him know what they love about their pubs. I will go back to the winners, as I know Members want to know who they are. Lastly, and rather appropriately given the subject matter of the debate—I promise this is not a stitch-up; this is actually what the numbers said— I am pleased to say that the Garibaldi has won best overall pub and best community pub.”
“It requires very little skill to draft law that works for 90% of cases, but there is much skill in ensuring that the other 10% is catered for as well. I urge everyone to set the highest standards today and think about how we can ensure that those unordinary and unexpected cases are adequately protected, too. It really is life and death, so please do not accept anything that is not good enough.”
“Our role is to vote on the law in front of us—on whether the words on the page are clear and do what is intended, on whether the statutory process is safe, and ultimately on whether the provision of assisted dying benefits our community. I am not against assisted dying in principle, but I am against this Bill. I am happy to put it on the record now that I have no personal religious beliefs; I am against the Bill for the simple reason that it will harm far more people than it will help. The people who will be harmed are the most vulnerable in our communities, and I am not willing to accept that collateral damage. Today is important, because we have the opportunity to improve the safeguards in the Bill so that some of those groups are better protected. I urge Members to take that opportunity to the full.”
“It is a privilege to speak in this place on such an important Bill. Having been part of the Committee that scrutinised it line by line, and, on some occasions, word by word, for several months earlier this year, it is a pleasure to see so many of my colleagues from Committee Room 10 present today—a reunion of sorts. I am here, as always, with the intention of improving the Bill, so that if it does indeed pass, vulnerable people are as protected as they can possibly be from unintended consequences. It is important to remember that on Report and Third Reading we are not voting on whether we agree with the principle of assisting someone to end their own life.”
“I wholeheartedly agree. There is much to discuss today and there is little time, so I will start at the beginning of the Bill, at the point at which the criteria for eligibility for an assisted death are set. It is there that important safeguards are needed to ensure that those who should never be eligible are excluded. We should not make the mistake of assuming that a doctor will always make the right decision or that they are infallible. It is incumbent on us to put in place law that makes it harder for them to get it wrong—that makes it harder for someone vulnerable to fall between the cracks.”
“From a proposal to provide a humane end to someone’s pain when it cannot be relieved in the last months of their life, we have moved to a proposal to provide an assisted death service to those who choose it for any reason, even if the pain can be alleviated by palliative care. This approach, however, comes with a cost to others: family, clinicians and broader society. This really is momentous. There is no going back from such a massive shift. A move to autonomy trumping everything else changes everything.”
“Interestingly, on Second Reading the argument put forward for assisted death was that those who are dying should be spared unbearable pain. This is an argument that everyone understands and has full sympathy with. No one in this place wants people to endure pain as they come to the end of their life; I certainly would not want that for my loved ones or indeed for myself when my time comes. But then the arguments being put forward changed. There was less emphasis on pain, and more on choice and autonomy. The word “autonomy” came up again and again in Committee—and autonomy is important, of course, but up to a point.”
“The evidence is clear that palliative care does not get better when assisted dying is introduced; we heard that in the Bill Committee. We should absolutely look to address palliative care, because that will benefit more people. I will come to that point later in my speech, so I will not discuss it any further now. I do not want to get ahead of myself. There are many helpful amendments in this vein—namely, new clause 16, new clause 9 and amendments 80, 14, 38, 81, 24, 30 and 31. In simple terms, they seek to tighten and refine the eligibility criteria for an assisted death by setting out when and for what reasons an assisted death should be allowed, and by ensuring that those who are vulnerable are protected from something that may not be in their best interests.”
“I thank my right hon. Friend for making that point; he is absolutely right. I have tabled amendment 80, which would bring the Bill back to its original intentions. It would require that in order to be eligible for an assisted death, the pain and discomfort experienced or expected from a person’s terminal illness could not be reasonably relieved to their satisfaction through palliative care. It seeks to limit assisted death to the very small group of people who may benefit from it, not the larger group who just need adequate palliative care to give them the comfortable, dignified death they deserve.”
“The key point is that we need to improve palliative care. We are spending so much time and effort focusing on this Bill rather than doing the thing that would actually help more people. My amendment 80, in combination with amendments 30 and 31 tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Runnymede and Weybridge (Dr Spencer), would drive significant improvements to palliative and end-of-life care, getting us closer to consistent and universally available care for all.”
“My hon. Friend makes a good point, and I agree. In the interests of time, I will make some progress. The current situation, whereby fully funded palliative and end-of-life care is not available in certain postcodes, means that those unfortunate patients do not have a real choice. We know that 25% of people who die in this country do not get the palliative care they need—that is more than 100,000 people a year—and if the Bill goes through, they will be offered a fully funded assisted death as the only reliable way to end their pain. That is no choice. I urge Members who want to see improvements in palliative and end-of-life care to vote for my amendment 80, and for amendments 30 and 31, tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Runnymede and Weybridge, if they are pushed to a vote.”
“For example, we have heard a great deal about the internal pressure from patients themselves that is driven by their concern not to be a burden, and we heard clearly in Committee that a patient could tell a doctor that they are want an assisted death only for financial reasons, and that would still be approved. We know from the experience of overseas territories that patients will often opt for an assisted death because of social and welfare issues, such as being homeless.”
“It makes no allowance for the fact that someone may feel a certain way temporarily due to other considerations. For example, when someone has just received a terminal diagnosis, it can understandably cause a depressive state and suicidal feelings, but those feelings do not necessarily last, so it may be in the best interests of the patient to allow a little time to pass, to give them a little breathing space before considering the assisted death route. New clause 16 essentially tries to provide a best interests test by excluding certain reasons, other than the alleviation of pain, that might be driving a patient’s decision.”
“I will not because I do not have much time. I will move on to the lack of a best interests test in the Bill, which my new clause 16 seeks to remedy. Patient autonomy is of course important, but it must be balanced against what is in someone’s best interests. In certain situations, when it is in their best interests, treatment can be given against a patient’s will—for example, force-feeding a young girl with anorexia. It is not an easy balance to get right, but in the absence of any best interests test in the Bill, following the process rigidly would lead to devastating results in some cases. The Bill currently prioritises autonomy of the patient in a specific moment of time, rather than what might be in their best interests in the long run.”
“In Chelsea Roff’s oral evidence, she set out that “at least 60 people around the world have been euthanised or assisted in suicide” with “anorexia nervosa listed by name as a terminal condition.” ––[ Official Report, Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Public Bill Committee, 29 January 2025; c. 139, Q175.] To paraphrase her, these were young women who were not terminally ill and had decades of life ahead of them. It is important to make the point that someone suffering—”
“I am sorry, but I do not have much time and I wish to get through my points. How can we be happy with a process that does not exclude such reasons? Instead of providing the support that is actually needed, the state is content to put them on a pathway that leads to their death. I hope that the House will recognise that, whether one supports assisted dying in principle or not, it is morally bankrupt not to have some kind of best interests test to protect those who are not seeking death to alleviate pain from a terminal illness. Another group that is particularly vulnerable is those with eating disorders.”
“In the real world, that would mean a doctor could assess a patient who gives the impression of being confused, illogical, erratic, inconsistent—everything about them could scream that they are not in a good place to make this decision at that point in time—but they would still be considered to have capacity if there is no identifiable impairment or disturbance of their mind or brain. That could potentially put those with depression, anxiety, learning disabilities or eating disorders, or even those just experiencing physical pain that is driving them to distraction, in danger of being considered to have capacity when they do not. So far I have focused on eligibility. I will now talk about hospices.”
“I ask all Members today whether they are happy with that. Does that sound like a robust approach to assessing whether someone has capacity to make the decision to end their own life? Let us begin with the starting presumption of capacity. That, too, lacks the standard for assisted death decisions. I therefore support amendment 24, tabled by the hon. Member for Bexleyheath and Crayford (Daniel Francis), which would disapply section 1(2) of the Mental Capacity Act 2005 for the purposes of assisted dying. One of the biggest issues for me is the fact that the current approach requires an impairment or disturbance of the brain in order for someone to be considered not to have capacity, irrespective of whether they can make a decision.”
“Lastly, on eligibility specifically, I want to talk about capacity. There are such problems with the current approach to determining capacity that I barely know where to start. When it comes to ending one’s own life, a higher standard should be applied. The current definition of capacity was not created with such a monumental decision in mind, and if it were being drafted from scratch today, it would look very different. That is one of the reasons why the Royal College of Psychiatrists does not support the Bill. Under the Bill, a person is assumed to have capacity in the first instance. A clinician only needs to be over 50% sure that a person has capacity. If the person is making unwise decisions, that is not taken into account, and a person can be “helped” to make a decision—for example, when a patient has learning disabilities.”
“I apologise, but I do want to get through my speech. It is important to make the point that someone suffering with anorexia, or indeed any mental condition, is not intended to be eligible for an assisted death. However, in the case of anorexia there are physical manifestations of the illness, such as malnutrition and diabetes, that might mean the patient meets the definition of being terminally ill, and that is the nub of the problem: the Bill does not adequately rule out physical manifestations caused by mental illness. That is why amendment 14, tabled by the hon. Member for Bradford West (Naz Shah), is so important, because it would ensure that anyone who voluntarily stops eating or drinking is ineligible for assisted dying. I support the amendment strongly as it addresses a big risk.”
“I did want to talk about process and family, but it looks like I will not have time to do that. I will end there. I thank you for your patience and generosity, Mr Speaker. I am grateful that I have had the chance to speak in support of the amendments, and I look forward to hearing from other Members.”
“Member for Spen Valley (Kim Leadbeater), would expand the protection for individuals not to participate in the assisted dying process if they so wish. It seeks to protect employees from being subjected to any detriment for participating or not participating in the provision of assisted dying. This sensible protection would ensure that if an NHS hospital provides an assisted death service, any member of staff who does not want to participate would not have to do so and would suffer no detriment as a result. However, there needs to be a sensible mechanism balancing that against the employer’s right to set their own policy on assisted dying, and that is what my amendment (a) to new clause 10 seeks to do—we have already talked about that, so I will not go over it again.”
“I will therefore speak to my new clauses 17 and 18, which would provide important protections for hospices, which are currently lacking in the Bill. New clause 18 makes it crystal clear that any regulated care home or hospice can decide whether to provide assisted dying on its premises, and new clause 17 makes it clear that they cannot be subject to any detriment for not providing or permitting assisted deaths, and that their public funding cannot be conditional on their providing this service. Whether one is in favour of assisted dying or not, we must preserve the rights of organisations, companies and charities to choose whether to offer it. They must never be forced into it by public funding being conditional on the provision of assisted dying. I note that new clause 10, tabled by the hon.”
“I thank the Minister for her response, and I am really pleased to see that she is committed to addressing pavement parking. It is absolutely essential that it is addressed for my constituents in Redhill, where it is a real problem. As the Minister will know, Guide Dogs has been running a campaign for many years on addressing pavement parking, given the impact it has on those who are visually impaired. Given the Minister’s enthusiasm for solving this problem, can she please give us an idea of the timescale for delivering a solution—not the recommendations, but a solution—so that those with visual impairments and my constituents can navigate pavements safely?”
“For example, in 2025 the target is for 28% of new car sales to be electric, so the Government must ensure there are sufficient public charging points across the UK to serve those new EVs by the end of 2025. If the Government fail to do that, the shortfall should be offset against the fines levied on the automotive industry, reducing what it has to pay. Surely that is fairer. The Government need to play their role and must also be held to account when they do not deliver. Before moving on, I want to touch on domestic energy prices, which apply to all manufacturing industries, not just automotive.”
“I also urge the Minister to review the mandate targets as soon as possible and to consider other, more effective ways of driving growth in EV take-up. It would make much more sense to incentivise consumers, rather than penalising businesses. The ZEV mandate targets cannot magically drive demand out of thin air. What we need is more carrot and less stick. Has the Minister considered such alternative options as reducing the VAT on EV sales and public charging, or offering plug-in grants for cars? Those could be straightforward and effective ways of boosting consumer demand. If the Government are wedded to the current draconian ZEV mandate approach, the fair thing would be for them to commit to delivering public charging infrastructure on equivalent targets.”
“That has already started, with Vauxhall owner Stellantis announcing plans to close a van factory in Luton that employs around 1,100 people. The industry has already invested billions in bringing more than 130 ZEV models to market. Despite spending some £4.5 billion in market support for EVs in 2024, it still missed last year’s target by some way. Such a level of support from industry is unsustainable and is diverting resources away from investment in new technology, models, plants, and research and development. I urge the Government to take responsibility for their role in delivering charging infrastructure and lowering energy costs, rather than beating businesses over the head for their own failings.”
“It makes no sense to expect businesses to dictate what products their customers should buy, when we all know that consumer preference and need should drive the products that a business sells, and rightly so. In 2025, ZEV sales will need to increase by 43% for cars and 171% for vans for automotive businesses to achieve the mandate targets. That is not achievable, and a fine of £12,000 per vehicle is levied on those businesses for every missed EV sale. The automotive industry cannot win on this one. Consumers are not ready to buy EVs yet, because of the lack of charging infrastructure, the battery range issues and the cost, but the automotive businesses will be held responsible and expected to pay the price. If we continue in that way, we will see contraction of the industry, plant closures and job losses, all in the name of net zero.”
“Putting aside the question of which position is the correct one, such chopping and changing is not fair on the automotive industry, which needs certainty and consistency so that it can deliver what is expected of it while still growing its businesses. I do, however, recognise the Government’s recent announcement about increasing the flexibility of the ZEV mandate, which is welcomed by the industry and shows that the Government are listening. In particular, I welcome the reduction in fines for missing targets and the allowance for all forms of hybrid cars until 2035. However, I would suggest that the whole approach in this area needs to be reconsidered as a priority. Tinkering is not enough. The ZEV mandate targets are incredibly challenging for businesses to meet.”